diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-08-03-07.34.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-08-03-07.34.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..fcaa9d151ca3cf1b2e371892ec7de5c72cfe91f0 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-08-03-07.34.html @@ -0,0 +1,213 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev Meeting + + + + +

#mahara-dev Meeting

+ +Meeting started by dan_p at 07:34:43 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Meeting summary

+
    +
  1. Meeting attendees (dan_p, 07:34:49) +
      +
    1. dan_p is Dan Poltawski - LUNS Ltd, UK + (dan_p, + 07:35:02)
      2. +
    2. dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols - LUNS Ltd, + UK (dobedobedoh, + 07:35:11)
      3. +
    3. hughdavenport is Hugh Davenport, Catalyst + IT (hughdavenport, + 07:35:17)
      4. +
    4. anitsirk: Kristina Hoeppner - Catalyst IT, + Wellington, NZ (anitsirk, + 07:35:18)
      5. +
    5. richardm is Richard Mansfield - Catalyst IT + Wgtn (richardm, + 07:35:21)
      6. +
    6. iarenaza is Iñaki Arenaza - Mondragon + Unibertsitatea (iarenaza, + 07:36:51)
      7. +
    +
    2. +
  2. Items from previous meeting (dan_p, 07:37:58) +
      +
    1. fmarier_ to update the bug status page with new + "milestone" usage guideline (dan_p, + 07:38:03)
      2. +
    2. ACTION: fmarier_ to + update the bug status page with new "milestone" usage + guidelines (dan_p, + 07:39:08)
      3. +
    3. thomaswbell88 to come up with ideas for + mahara.org badges and post on the wiki under Specifications in + Development (dan_p, + 07:39:24)
      4. +
    4. https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development/Forum_Badges + (dan_p, + 07:39:36)
      5. +
    5. Like the work in progress in wiki, but needs + more technical detail to implement (dan_p, + 07:42:36)
      6. +
    6. ACTION: thomaswbell88 + to come up with ideas for mahara.org badges and post on the wiki + under Specifications in Development (dan_p, + 07:43:40)
      7. +
    +
    3. +
  3. Unit testing (dobedobedoh) (dan_p, 07:43:52) +
      +
    1. dobedobedoh has updated Mjollnir`'s phpunit + branch with the intention of merging into 1.5 (dan_p, + 07:45:50)
      2. +
    2. dobedobedoh to update the code into reviewable + chunks (dan_p, + 07:53:24)
      3. +
    3. Ruslan Kabalin - LUNS ltd., Lancaster, + UK (rkabalin, + 07:53:26)
      4. +
    4. Selenium/Unit tests with commits (dan_p, + 07:56:03)
      5. +
    +
    4. +
  4. Selenium/Unit tests with commits (dan_p, 07:56:33) +
      +
    1. AGREED: (dan_p, + 07:57:29)
      2. +
    2. Push a unit/selenium test with a new + feature (dan_p, + 07:57:47)
      3. +
    3. IDEA: hughdavenport + proposes that developers push a selenium/unit test with a new + feature (dan_p, + 07:58:56)
      4. +
    4. richardm suggests intergating selenium with + jenkins, but seperate from gerrit (dan_p, + 08:09:55)
      5. +
    5. ACTION: LUNS to + investigate adding a new mahara integration project to run selenium + tests (dan_p, + 08:11:17)
      6. +
    +
    5. +
  5. Next meeting (dan_p, 08:13:06) +
      +
    1. Next meeting agreed for 06/09/11 - 19:30 + UTC (dan_p, + 08:16:38)
      2. +
    +
    6. +
  6. Any other business (dan_p, 08:17:09) +
    7. +
+

+ + + + +Meeting ended at 08:18:59 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Action items

+
    +
  1. fmarier_ to update the bug status page with new "milestone" usage guidelines
    2. +
  2. thomaswbell88 to come up with ideas for mahara.org badges and post on the wiki under Specifications in Development
    3. +
  3. LUNS to investigate adding a new mahara integration project to run selenium tests
    4. +
+

+ + + +

People present (lines said)

+
    +
  1. dan_p (69)
    2. +
  2. hughdavenport (56)
    3. +
  3. dobedobedoh (54)
    4. +
  4. richardm (16)
    5. +
  5. iarenaza (6)
    6. +
  6. rkabalin (6)
    7. +
  7. anitsirk (5)
    8. +
  8. maharameet (5)
    9. +
+

+ + + +Generated by MeetBot 0.1.4. + diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-08-03-07.34.log.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-08-03-07.34.log.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..67b75030429186729451d57f3ec83e21294d8e1a --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-08-03-07.34.log.html @@ -0,0 +1,244 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev log + + + + +
07:34:43 <dan_p> #startmeeting
+07:34:43 <maharameet> Meeting started Wed Aug  3 07:34:43 2011 UTC.  The chair is dan_p. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
+07:34:43 <maharameet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
+07:34:49 <dan_p> #topic Meeting attendees
+07:34:57 <dan_p> Please put #info in from of your name
+07:35:02 <dan_p> #info dan_p is Dan Poltawski - LUNS Ltd, UK
+07:35:11 <dobedobedoh> #info dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols - LUNS Ltd, UK
+07:35:17 <hughdavenport> #info hughdavenport is Hugh Davenport, Catalyst IT
+07:35:18 <anitsirk> #info anitsirk: Kristina Hoeppner - Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+07:35:21 <richardm> #info richardm is Richard Mansfield - Catalyst IT Wgtn
+07:36:25 <dan_p> Some housekeeping whilst waiting for any other latecomers..
+07:36:41 <dan_p> please say ".." on a line by itself if you are typing a long multi-line piece to indicate you've finished
+07:36:47 <dan_p> ..
+07:36:51 <iarenaza> #info iarenaza is Iñaki Arenaza - Mondragon Unibertsitatea
+07:37:48 <dan_p> Ok, I think we are in for a short and sweet meeting today, so i'll move on ;)
+07:37:58 <dan_p> #topic Items from previous meeting
+07:38:03 <dan_p> #info fmarier_ to update the bug status page with new "milestone" usage guideline
+07:38:12 <dan_p> In the absenece of fmarier I checked -  and don't believe this has been completed https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Bug_Status
+07:38:31 <dan_p> So I propose to carry this action forward to the next meeting
+07:38:54 <iarenaza> #agree
+07:38:58 <dobedobedoh> #agree
+07:39:01 <hughdavenport> #agree
+07:39:04 <richardm> #agree
+07:39:08 <dan_p> #action  fmarier_ to update the bug status page with new "milestone" usage guidelines
+07:39:24 <dan_p> #info thomaswbell88 to come up with ideas for mahara.org badges and post on the wiki under Specifications in Development
+07:39:32 <dan_p> In the absence of thomaswbell88 I checked and found the wiki page WIP:
+07:39:36 <dan_p> https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development/Forum_Badges
+07:40:29 <dan_p> Any comments on this without thomaswbell88 present?
+07:40:46 <dan_p> (Otherwise I propose to carry it forward to the next meeting..)
+07:41:03 * iarenaza having a look at it right now
+07:41:26 <richardm> sounds good, probably needs a bit more technical detail before we go and implement it
+07:41:49 <hughdavenport> yeh page looks good, but will need filling out a bit
+07:42:00 <hughdavenport> and as richardm says a bit of tech detail
+07:42:36 <dan_p> #info Like the work in progress in wiki, but needs more technical detail to implement
+07:42:44 <dobedobedoh> Yup
+07:43:34 <dan_p> Ok, well i'll carry that action forward
+07:43:40 <dan_p> #action thomaswbell88 to come up with ideas for mahara.org badges and post on the wiki under Specifications in Development
+07:43:52 <dan_p> #topic Unit testing (dobedobedoh)
+07:44:27 <dobedobedoh> As the agenda page says, I've updated Mjollnir`'s phpunit branch from way back
+07:44:48 <dobedobedoh> I've put it up git.luns.net.uk (https://git.luns.net.uk/?p=mahara.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/phpunit)
+07:44:52 <dobedobedoh> if anyone wants to see
+07:45:02 <dobedobedoh> I'd like to propose that we try and get it in to Mahara 1.5
+07:45:20 <dobedobedoh> and I was hoping for some guidance on the most appropriate way of merging it
+07:45:38 <dobedobedoh> There are about 8 commits off master which are a mixture of Mjollnir`'s and mine
+07:45:49 <dobedobedoh> and several are missing Signed-off-by etc
+07:45:50 <dan_p> #info dobedobedoh has updated Mjollnir`'s phpunit branch with the intention of merging into 1.5
+07:46:49 <dobedobedoh> So I also wanted to raise the question as to the best way of merging works which don't meet our current guidelines
+07:47:08 <richardm> dobedobedoh: i think it's not a problem to retain authorship, i pushed a couple of patches that weren't mine to gerrit recently
+07:47:14 <dobedobedoh> And to ask whether we should squash all of the commits down into one etc
+07:47:52 <hughdavenport> depends on whether it is one big change or not
+07:47:57 <richardm> dobedobedoh: whatever you think will make them easiest to review i suppose
+07:48:01 <dobedobedoh> Okay dokay
+07:48:02 <hughdavenport> it is easier to review if it is smaller chunks
+07:48:10 <hughdavenport> but not too small :)
+07:48:24 <hughdavenport> you could just push what you have and we can work from there
+07:48:39 <dobedobedoh> Okay. I'll tidy it up a bit first as there are a few I'd like to squash
+07:48:48 <iarenaza> dobedobedoh: Can we ask Mjollnir` to add the signed-off lines? (if that's a real problem)
+07:49:14 <hughdavenport> gerrit will complain if you push stuff that has signedoffby someone else
+07:49:22 <hughdavenport> you can change the author on the commit
+07:49:39 <hughdavenport> the signedoffby is basically saying the person that pushed it is alright with it
+07:49:48 <iarenaza> hughdavenport: and if it has multiple signed-off lines, does it also complain?
+07:49:49 <hughdavenport> but they may not be the original author
+07:49:54 <richardm> dobedobedoh can push them with his own signed-off, and Mjollnir` as author
+07:50:16 <hughdavenport> iarenaza: not sure, but iirc it did it for me
+07:50:26 <richardm> iarenaza: it's happy with multiple signed-off lines i think
+07:50:40 <hughdavenport> yeh could be that
+07:50:40 <dobedobedoh> That was all really -- I just wanted to raise the profile of the unit testing, and ask you to review the patches when they hit gerrit ;)
+07:50:43 <dobedobedoh> ..
+07:50:44 <dan_p> dobedobedoh: are you  proposing to acompany the code with some developer documentation? ;-)
+07:50:46 <hughdavenport> just had to have you in it somewhere
+07:50:48 <dobedobedoh> It is happy with multiple signed off lines
+07:51:11 <dobedobedoh> dan_p: There's already a WIP at https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Unit_Testing
+07:51:31 <dobedobedoh> But it's very much a WIP ;)
+07:52:30 <dobedobedoh> That's all I have
+07:52:48 <dobedobedoh> Please consider what tests you may want to write...
+07:52:49 <dobedobedoh> ..
+07:53:24 <dan_p> #info dobedobedoh to update the code into reviewable chunks
+07:53:26 <rkabalin> #info Ruslan Kabalin - LUNS ltd., Lancaster, UK
+07:54:31 <dan_p> dobedobedoh: I don't think there are any actions out of that, agree?
+07:54:38 <dobedobedoh> agree
+07:54:45 <dobedobedoh> except on me to push
+07:55:01 <dan_p> ok will move on..
+07:55:02 <dan_p> #topic Next meeting
+07:55:10 <dobedobedoh> I think hugh had something
+07:55:17 <hughdavenport> yep, i added it last minute
+07:55:19 <dobedobedoh> in the agenda
+07:55:24 <hughdavenport> well last day/minute :P
+07:55:27 <dan_p> doh
+07:55:42 <hughdavenport> won't take long :)
+07:55:43 <dan_p> #undo
+07:55:43 <maharameet> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0xb6e75eac>
+07:56:03 <dan_p> #info Selenium/Unit tests with commits
+07:56:24 <hughdavenport> right with this, I was thinking that it could be an idea for when we push a commit with a new feature
+07:56:33 <dan_p> #topic Selenium/Unit tests with commits
+07:56:45 <hughdavenport> that we also push along side it a unit test or a selenium test
+07:56:57 <hughdavenport> that way we can test when something breaks later on
+07:57:03 <hughdavenport> and we keep the tests up to date
+07:57:21 <hughdavenport> and another thing is that we could possibly integrate one or both into jenkins
+07:57:25 <hughdavenport> thoughts?
+07:57:26 <hughdavenport> ..
+07:57:29 <dan_p> #agree
+07:57:31 <richardm> #agree
+07:57:47 <dan_p> #info Push a unit/selenium test with a new feature
+07:57:52 <dobedobedoh> I've tried this in the past... getting the selenium tests up to date
+07:57:55 <hughdavenport> it will take a bit to get into the habit of doing, but I think it will be good in the long run
+07:58:21 <dobedobedoh> The difficulty I found was in getting them detailed enough to test the functionality I'd written
+07:58:33 <dobedobedoh> BUt I think that combined with phpunit tests, it shouldn't be a problem
+07:58:33 <dobedobedoh> ..
+07:58:41 <hughdavenport> yeh that is the problem with any test suite really
+07:58:45 <hughdavenport> combining does help
+07:58:56 <dan_p> #idea hughdavenport proposes that developers push a selenium/unit test with a new feature
+07:59:11 <dobedobedoh> Selenium is a particular pain as it doesn't support state between tests or dependencies
+07:59:21 <hughdavenport> yeh...
+07:59:27 <dan_p> I have got this impression of Selenium being particularly 'fragile'
+07:59:31 <hughdavenport> but with your new phpunit that will be good
+07:59:54 <hughdavenport> dan_p: well it's basically a simulation of users clicking around, easily broken :)
+07:59:57 <dobedobedoh> There's also that... some things you end up testing with xpath, and then something changes in teh UI and it's a right pain to calculate the new xpath
+08:00:02 <hughdavenport> basically any change could break it
+08:00:28 <richardm> they also take forever to run
+08:00:40 <dobedobedoh> And automating them with jenkins is potentially tricky
+08:00:47 <dobedobedoh> though not impossible
+08:00:49 <hughdavenport> they do, which may mean that jenkins may not be the best
+08:01:03 <hughdavenport> is it possible to have two jenkins runs, a quick and a slow?
+08:01:06 <dan_p> I definitely agree they should be tested with jenkins though
+08:01:21 <dan_p> hughdavenport: yes I think so
+08:01:27 <hughdavenport> so we can get feedback on when it fails straightaway, and then later whether the tests pass
+08:01:32 <dobedobedoh> Some things can only be tested with UI tests such as selenium so we definately need them
+08:01:58 <dan_p> hughdavenport: though, does that not sort of break the workflow of trying not to 'break the build', if you submit and carry on?
+08:02:27 <richardm> phpunit every commit, & selenium once or twice a day?
+08:02:36 <dobedobedoh> We already have a requirement to split out minaccept and jenkinsaccept in the Makefile
+08:02:47 <dobedobedoh> Ah I see
+08:03:14 <dan_p> dobedobedoh: Are selenium tests less maintaince than detailed human instructons/testers..
+08:04:05 <dobedobedoh> Debateable... they're more repeatable, but because of things like sometimes having to locate elements by xpath
+08:04:15 <dobedobedoh> they can take a lot of setting up
+08:04:17 <hughdavenport> all this said, the tests shouldn't be taken as gospel, they are just useful for finding stuff that may break old stuff accidentaly
+08:04:21 <dobedobedoh> and then be broken very quickly
+08:04:22 <dobedobedoh> ..
+08:04:41 <dobedobedoh> I think they're worthwhile, but only when combined with phpunit
+08:04:54 <hughdavenport> i would agree with that
+08:04:59 <dobedobedoh> and I think it's probably worth looking at some of the user contributed comonents
+08:05:06 <hughdavenport> i like richardm's comment saying maybe phpunit every commit
+08:05:12 <dobedobedoh> e.g. I came across one which allowed you to store state between tests
+08:05:15 <hughdavenport> then selenium less regularily
+08:05:39 <dan_p> I think this is proably worth revisiing after phpunit is integrated?
+08:05:51 <hughdavenport> yep, that sounds good
+08:05:54 <dan_p> Or do we need to look at selenium integration now?
+08:05:55 <dobedobedoh> Yeah
+08:06:02 <dobedobedoh> Selenium is already integrated
+08:06:09 <dobedobedoh> or you mean with jenkins?
+08:06:10 <dan_p> integration to jenkins
+08:06:23 <hughdavenport> i think integration with jenkins can come later
+08:06:43 <hughdavenport> we can integrate phpunit first as it is more useful for jenkins on a per commit as its faster
+08:06:56 <dobedobedoh> Are we bothered about things taking a while to test at present? There doesn't seem to be a /massive/ queue
+08:07:07 <hughdavenport> but the whole point of my topic was just to get the mindset of thinking about writing tests as we go
+08:07:24 <dobedobedoh> hughdavenport: I like it :)
+08:07:33 <hughdavenport> dobedobedoh: when we submit a large series of patches it would have to test them all
+08:07:37 <dobedobedoh> true
+08:07:39 <dobedobedoh> that woudl suck
+08:07:40 <hughdavenport> when it would be better to test at the end
+08:07:54 <richardm> i think we do need integration with jenkins, but it should be pulled straight from the main repo, not gerrit
+08:08:07 <richardm> (for selenium i mean)
+08:08:10 <hughdavenport> especially if there are multiple patchsets
+08:08:17 <dan_p> ah, agreed
+08:08:33 <hughdavenport> like richardm said, it would be better to test after merge, we can always revert (although ugly)
+08:08:37 <dan_p> richardm: would you see that then generating a bug or alerting some other way?
+08:08:39 <hughdavenport> but it's only a whatif case
+08:09:05 <richardm> dan_p: spamming the committer i guess
+08:09:18 <dobedobedoh> It'd ahve to track down /which/ commit broke things
+08:09:18 <dan_p> #info richardm suggests intergating selenium with jenkins, but seperate from jenkins
+08:09:36 <richardm> separate from gerrit i meant
+08:09:39 <dan_p> doh
+08:09:42 <hughdavenport> hehe, integrate with jenkins but not with jenkins :P
+08:09:46 <dan_p> #unfo
+08:09:48 <dan_p> #undo
+08:09:48 <maharameet> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x9a8498c>
+08:09:51 <hughdavenport> hehe
+08:09:55 <dan_p> #info richardm suggests intergating selenium with jenkins, but seperate from gerrit
+08:10:00 <dan_p> more coffee required
+08:10:01 <hughdavenport> early morning dan_p?
+08:10:06 <rkabalin> We could have just two projects on jenkins
+08:10:26 <rkabalin> one for gerrit another for selenioum from master
+08:10:33 * iarenaza is sorry, but has to leave (will read the chat logs later)
+08:11:17 <dan_p> #action LUNS to investigate adding a new mahara integration project to run selenium tests
+08:11:41 <richardm> :)
+08:12:47 <dan_p> Ok, shall we leave it at that?
+08:12:56 <hughdavenport> sounds good
+08:13:06 <dan_p> #topic Next meeting
+08:13:23 <dan_p> I proposed on the wiki 01/09/11 - 17:30 UTC
+08:13:36 <dan_p> Thursday evening UK time, Friday morning NZ
+08:14:19 <hughdavenport> sounds good
+08:14:21 <rkabalin> I agree
+08:14:22 <anitsirk> i can make it earliest on sept. 5
+08:14:50 <anitsirk> but if there is only tech stuff as today, i can read the log ;-)
+08:15:12 <dan_p> anitsirk: would be good to have you there
+08:15:20 <dan_p> I can't make 5th, so new proposal
+08:15:31 <dan_p> 06/09/11 - 19:30 UTC
+08:15:43 <dan_p> (sorry that previous time was supposed to be 19:30!)
+08:16:02 <richardm> fine by me
+08:16:03 <anitsirk> the 7th should work for me
+08:16:03 <dobedobedoh> I was gonna say!
+08:16:06 <hughdavenport> lol, just saw that
+08:16:08 <dobedobedoh> WFM
+08:16:19 <rkabalin> :)
+08:16:29 <rkabalin> 6th sounds fine
+08:16:38 <dan_p> #info Next meeting agreed for 06/09/11 - 19:30 UTC
+08:16:53 <dan_p> #idea dan_p to drink more coffee before future meetings
+08:16:59 <hughdavenport> hehe
+08:17:07 <dan_p> #undo
+08:17:07 <maharameet> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Idea object at 0x9a8c7ac>
+08:17:09 <dan_p> #topic Any other business
+08:17:53 <dan_p> Going once..
+08:17:59 <hughdavenport> nothing from me
+08:18:17 <dan_p> twice..
+08:18:20 <anitsirk> nope. all good
+08:18:47 <dan_p> Ok, lets wrap it up
+08:18:58 <dan_p> thanks everyone
+08:18:59 <dan_p> #endmeeting
+ diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-08-03-07.34.log.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-08-03-07.34.log.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..7aa3f52a0aa8727c915fd211f5275f1b9effabee --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-08-03-07.34.log.txt @@ -0,0 +1,217 @@ +07:34:43 #startmeeting +07:34:43 Meeting started Wed Aug 3 07:34:43 2011 UTC. The chair is dan_p. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. +07:34:43 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. +07:34:49 #topic Meeting attendees +07:34:57 Please put #info in from of your name +07:35:02 #info dan_p is Dan Poltawski - LUNS Ltd, UK +07:35:11 #info dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols - LUNS Ltd, UK +07:35:17 #info hughdavenport is Hugh Davenport, Catalyst IT +07:35:18 #info anitsirk: Kristina Hoeppner - Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +07:35:21 #info richardm is Richard Mansfield - Catalyst IT Wgtn +07:36:25 Some housekeeping whilst waiting for any other latecomers.. +07:36:41 please say ".." on a line by itself if you are typing a long multi-line piece to indicate you've finished +07:36:47 .. +07:36:51 #info iarenaza is Iñaki Arenaza - Mondragon Unibertsitatea +07:37:48 Ok, I think we are in for a short and sweet meeting today, so i'll move on ;) +07:37:58 #topic Items from previous meeting +07:38:03 #info fmarier_ to update the bug status page with new "milestone" usage guideline +07:38:12 In the absenece of fmarier I checked - and don't believe this has been completed https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Bug_Status +07:38:31 So I propose to carry this action forward to the next meeting +07:38:54 #agree +07:38:58 #agree +07:39:01 #agree +07:39:04 #agree +07:39:08 #action fmarier_ to update the bug status page with new "milestone" usage guidelines +07:39:24 #info thomaswbell88 to come up with ideas for mahara.org badges and post on the wiki under Specifications in Development +07:39:32 In the absence of thomaswbell88 I checked and found the wiki page WIP: +07:39:36 https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development/Forum_Badges +07:40:29 Any comments on this without thomaswbell88 present? +07:40:46 (Otherwise I propose to carry it forward to the next meeting..) +07:41:03 * iarenaza having a look at it right now +07:41:26 sounds good, probably needs a bit more technical detail before we go and implement it +07:41:49 yeh page looks good, but will need filling out a bit +07:42:00 and as richardm says a bit of tech detail +07:42:36 #info Like the work in progress in wiki, but needs more technical detail to implement +07:42:44 Yup +07:43:34 Ok, well i'll carry that action forward +07:43:40 #action thomaswbell88 to come up with ideas for mahara.org badges and post on the wiki under Specifications in Development +07:43:52 #topic Unit testing (dobedobedoh) +07:44:27 As the agenda page says, I've updated Mjollnir`'s phpunit branch from way back +07:44:48 I've put it up git.luns.net.uk (https://git.luns.net.uk/?p=mahara.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/phpunit) +07:44:52 if anyone wants to see +07:45:02 I'd like to propose that we try and get it in to Mahara 1.5 +07:45:20 and I was hoping for some guidance on the most appropriate way of merging it +07:45:38 There are about 8 commits off master which are a mixture of Mjollnir`'s and mine +07:45:49 and several are missing Signed-off-by etc +07:45:50 #info dobedobedoh has updated Mjollnir`'s phpunit branch with the intention of merging into 1.5 +07:46:49 So I also wanted to raise the question as to the best way of merging works which don't meet our current guidelines +07:47:08 dobedobedoh: i think it's not a problem to retain authorship, i pushed a couple of patches that weren't mine to gerrit recently +07:47:14 And to ask whether we should squash all of the commits down into one etc +07:47:52 depends on whether it is one big change or not +07:47:57 dobedobedoh: whatever you think will make them easiest to review i suppose +07:48:01 Okay dokay +07:48:02 it is easier to review if it is smaller chunks +07:48:10 but not too small :) +07:48:24 you could just push what you have and we can work from there +07:48:39 Okay. I'll tidy it up a bit first as there are a few I'd like to squash +07:48:48 dobedobedoh: Can we ask Mjollnir` to add the signed-off lines? (if that's a real problem) +07:49:14 gerrit will complain if you push stuff that has signedoffby someone else +07:49:22 you can change the author on the commit +07:49:39 the signedoffby is basically saying the person that pushed it is alright with it +07:49:48 hughdavenport: and if it has multiple signed-off lines, does it also complain? +07:49:49 but they may not be the original author +07:49:54 dobedobedoh can push them with his own signed-off, and Mjollnir` as author +07:50:16 iarenaza: not sure, but iirc it did it for me +07:50:26 iarenaza: it's happy with multiple signed-off lines i think +07:50:40 yeh could be that +07:50:40 That was all really -- I just wanted to raise the profile of the unit testing, and ask you to review the patches when they hit gerrit ;) +07:50:43 .. +07:50:44 dobedobedoh: are you proposing to acompany the code with some developer documentation? ;-) +07:50:46 just had to have you in it somewhere +07:50:48 It is happy with multiple signed off lines +07:51:11 dan_p: There's already a WIP at https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Unit_Testing +07:51:31 But it's very much a WIP ;) +07:52:30 That's all I have +07:52:48 Please consider what tests you may want to write... +07:52:49 .. +07:53:24 #info dobedobedoh to update the code into reviewable chunks +07:53:26 #info Ruslan Kabalin - LUNS ltd., Lancaster, UK +07:54:31 dobedobedoh: I don't think there are any actions out of that, agree? +07:54:38 agree +07:54:45 except on me to push +07:55:01 ok will move on.. +07:55:02 #topic Next meeting +07:55:10 I think hugh had something +07:55:17 yep, i added it last minute +07:55:19 in the agenda +07:55:24 well last day/minute :P +07:55:27 doh +07:55:42 won't take long :) +07:55:43 #undo +07:55:43 Removing item from minutes: +07:56:03 #info Selenium/Unit tests with commits +07:56:24 right with this, I was thinking that it could be an idea for when we push a commit with a new feature +07:56:33 #topic Selenium/Unit tests with commits +07:56:45 that we also push along side it a unit test or a selenium test +07:56:57 that way we can test when something breaks later on +07:57:03 and we keep the tests up to date +07:57:21 and another thing is that we could possibly integrate one or both into jenkins +07:57:25 thoughts? +07:57:26 .. +07:57:29 #agree +07:57:31 #agree +07:57:47 #info Push a unit/selenium test with a new feature +07:57:52 I've tried this in the past... getting the selenium tests up to date +07:57:55 it will take a bit to get into the habit of doing, but I think it will be good in the long run +07:58:21 The difficulty I found was in getting them detailed enough to test the functionality I'd written +07:58:33 BUt I think that combined with phpunit tests, it shouldn't be a problem +07:58:33 .. +07:58:41 yeh that is the problem with any test suite really +07:58:45 combining does help +07:58:56 #idea hughdavenport proposes that developers push a selenium/unit test with a new feature +07:59:11 Selenium is a particular pain as it doesn't support state between tests or dependencies +07:59:21 yeh... +07:59:27 I have got this impression of Selenium being particularly 'fragile' +07:59:31 but with your new phpunit that will be good +07:59:54 dan_p: well it's basically a simulation of users clicking around, easily broken :) +07:59:57 There's also that... some things you end up testing with xpath, and then something changes in teh UI and it's a right pain to calculate the new xpath +08:00:02 basically any change could break it +08:00:28 they also take forever to run +08:00:40 And automating them with jenkins is potentially tricky +08:00:47 though not impossible +08:00:49 they do, which may mean that jenkins may not be the best +08:01:03 is it possible to have two jenkins runs, a quick and a slow? +08:01:06 I definitely agree they should be tested with jenkins though +08:01:21 hughdavenport: yes I think so +08:01:27 so we can get feedback on when it fails straightaway, and then later whether the tests pass +08:01:32 Some things can only be tested with UI tests such as selenium so we definately need them +08:01:58 hughdavenport: though, does that not sort of break the workflow of trying not to 'break the build', if you submit and carry on? +08:02:27 phpunit every commit, & selenium once or twice a day? +08:02:36 We already have a requirement to split out minaccept and jenkinsaccept in the Makefile +08:02:47 Ah I see +08:03:14 dobedobedoh: Are selenium tests less maintaince than detailed human instructons/testers.. +08:04:05 Debateable... they're more repeatable, but because of things like sometimes having to locate elements by xpath +08:04:15 they can take a lot of setting up +08:04:17 all this said, the tests shouldn't be taken as gospel, they are just useful for finding stuff that may break old stuff accidentaly +08:04:21 and then be broken very quickly +08:04:22 .. +08:04:41 I think they're worthwhile, but only when combined with phpunit +08:04:54 i would agree with that +08:04:59 and I think it's probably worth looking at some of the user contributed comonents +08:05:06 i like richardm's comment saying maybe phpunit every commit +08:05:12 e.g. I came across one which allowed you to store state between tests +08:05:15 then selenium less regularily +08:05:39 I think this is proably worth revisiing after phpunit is integrated? +08:05:51 yep, that sounds good +08:05:54 Or do we need to look at selenium integration now? +08:05:55 Yeah +08:06:02 Selenium is already integrated +08:06:09 or you mean with jenkins? +08:06:10 integration to jenkins +08:06:23 i think integration with jenkins can come later +08:06:43 we can integrate phpunit first as it is more useful for jenkins on a per commit as its faster +08:06:56 Are we bothered about things taking a while to test at present? There doesn't seem to be a /massive/ queue +08:07:07 but the whole point of my topic was just to get the mindset of thinking about writing tests as we go +08:07:24 hughdavenport: I like it :) +08:07:33 dobedobedoh: when we submit a large series of patches it would have to test them all +08:07:37 true +08:07:39 that woudl suck +08:07:40 when it would be better to test at the end +08:07:54 i think we do need integration with jenkins, but it should be pulled straight from the main repo, not gerrit +08:08:07 (for selenium i mean) +08:08:10 especially if there are multiple patchsets +08:08:17 ah, agreed +08:08:33 like richardm said, it would be better to test after merge, we can always revert (although ugly) +08:08:37 richardm: would you see that then generating a bug or alerting some other way? +08:08:39 but it's only a whatif case +08:09:05 dan_p: spamming the committer i guess +08:09:18 It'd ahve to track down /which/ commit broke things +08:09:18 #info richardm suggests intergating selenium with jenkins, but seperate from jenkins +08:09:36 separate from gerrit i meant +08:09:39 doh +08:09:42 hehe, integrate with jenkins but not with jenkins :P +08:09:46 #unfo +08:09:48 #undo +08:09:48 Removing item from minutes: +08:09:51 hehe +08:09:55 #info richardm suggests intergating selenium with jenkins, but seperate from gerrit +08:10:00 more coffee required +08:10:01 early morning dan_p? +08:10:06 We could have just two projects on jenkins +08:10:26 one for gerrit another for selenioum from master +08:10:33 * iarenaza is sorry, but has to leave (will read the chat logs later) +08:11:17 #action LUNS to investigate adding a new mahara integration project to run selenium tests +08:11:41 :) +08:12:47 Ok, shall we leave it at that? +08:12:56 sounds good +08:13:06 #topic Next meeting +08:13:23 I proposed on the wiki 01/09/11 - 17:30 UTC +08:13:36 Thursday evening UK time, Friday morning NZ +08:14:19 sounds good +08:14:21 I agree +08:14:22 i can make it earliest on sept. 5 +08:14:50 but if there is only tech stuff as today, i can read the log ;-) +08:15:12 anitsirk: would be good to have you there +08:15:20 I can't make 5th, so new proposal +08:15:31 06/09/11 - 19:30 UTC +08:15:43 (sorry that previous time was supposed to be 19:30!) +08:16:02 fine by me +08:16:03 the 7th should work for me +08:16:03 I was gonna say! +08:16:06 lol, just saw that +08:16:08 WFM +08:16:19 :) +08:16:29 6th sounds fine +08:16:38 #info Next meeting agreed for 06/09/11 - 19:30 UTC +08:16:53 #idea dan_p to drink more coffee before future meetings +08:16:59 hehe +08:17:07 #undo +08:17:07 Removing item from minutes: +08:17:09 #topic Any other business +08:17:53 Going once.. +08:17:59 nothing from me +08:18:17 twice.. +08:18:20 nope. all good +08:18:47 Ok, lets wrap it up +08:18:58 thanks everyone +08:18:59 #endmeeting \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-08-03-07.34.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-08-03-07.34.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..c78545c41c8614dc3eebc0fd6d3caae40f9d7f04 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-08-03-07.34.txt @@ -0,0 +1,111 @@ +=================== +#mahara-dev Meeting +=================== + + +Meeting started by dan_p at 07:34:43 UTC. The full logs are available at +http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-08-03-07.34.log.html +. + + + +Meeting summary +--------------- +* Meeting attendees (dan_p, 07:34:49) + * dan_p is Dan Poltawski - LUNS Ltd, UK (dan_p, 07:35:02) + * dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols - LUNS Ltd, UK (dobedobedoh, 07:35:11) + * hughdavenport is Hugh Davenport, Catalyst IT (hughdavenport, + 07:35:17) + * anitsirk: Kristina Hoeppner - Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ + (anitsirk, 07:35:18) + * richardm is Richard Mansfield - Catalyst IT Wgtn (richardm, + 07:35:21) + * iarenaza is Iñaki Arenaza - Mondragon Unibertsitatea (iarenaza, + 07:36:51) + +* Items from previous meeting (dan_p, 07:37:58) + * fmarier_ to update the bug status page with new "milestone" usage + guideline (dan_p, 07:38:03) + * ACTION: fmarier_ to update the bug status page with new "milestone" + usage guidelines (dan_p, 07:39:08) + * thomaswbell88 to come up with ideas for mahara.org badges and post + on the wiki under Specifications in Development (dan_p, 07:39:24) + * LINK: + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development/Forum_Badges + (dan_p, 07:39:36) + * Like the work in progress in wiki, but needs more technical detail + to implement (dan_p, 07:42:36) + * ACTION: thomaswbell88 to come up with ideas for mahara.org badges + and post on the wiki under Specifications in Development (dan_p, + 07:43:40) + +* Unit testing (dobedobedoh) (dan_p, 07:43:52) + * dobedobedoh has updated Mjollnir`'s phpunit branch with the + intention of merging into 1.5 (dan_p, 07:45:50) + * dobedobedoh to update the code into reviewable chunks (dan_p, + 07:53:24) + * Ruslan Kabalin - LUNS ltd., Lancaster, UK (rkabalin, 07:53:26) + * Selenium/Unit tests with commits (dan_p, 07:56:03) + +* Selenium/Unit tests with commits (dan_p, 07:56:33) + * AGREED: (dan_p, 07:57:29) + * Push a unit/selenium test with a new feature (dan_p, 07:57:47) + * IDEA: hughdavenport proposes that developers push a selenium/unit + test with a new feature (dan_p, 07:58:56) + * richardm suggests intergating selenium with jenkins, but seperate + from gerrit (dan_p, 08:09:55) + * ACTION: LUNS to investigate adding a new mahara integration project + to run selenium tests (dan_p, 08:11:17) + +* Next meeting (dan_p, 08:13:06) + * Next meeting agreed for 06/09/11 - 19:30 UTC (dan_p, 08:16:38) + +* Any other business (dan_p, 08:17:09) + +Meeting ended at 08:18:59 UTC. + + + + +Action Items +------------ +* fmarier_ to update the bug status page with new "milestone" usage + guidelines +* thomaswbell88 to come up with ideas for mahara.org badges and post on + the wiki under Specifications in Development +* LUNS to investigate adding a new mahara integration project to run + selenium tests + + + + +Action Items, by person +----------------------- +* **UNASSIGNED** + * fmarier_ to update the bug status page with new "milestone" usage + guidelines + * thomaswbell88 to come up with ideas for mahara.org badges and post + on the wiki under Specifications in Development + * LUNS to investigate adding a new mahara integration project to run + selenium tests + + + + +People Present (lines said) +--------------------------- +* dan_p (69) +* hughdavenport (56) +* dobedobedoh (54) +* richardm (16) +* iarenaza (6) +* rkabalin (6) +* anitsirk (5) +* maharameet (5) + + + + +Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 + +.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot