Commit cf82a8b9 authored by Andrew Robert Nicols's avatar Andrew Robert Nicols

[mahara-dev] Meeting of 5th October 2011

Signed-off-by: default avatarAndrew Robert Nicols <andrew.nicols@luns.net.uk>
parent 4ebda432
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<h1>#mahara-dev Meeting</h1>
<span class="details">
Meeting started by dobedobedoh at 07:31:45 UTC
(<a href="mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html">full logs</a>).</span>
<br><br>
<h3>Meeting summary</h3>
<ol>
<li><b class="TOPIC">Meeting attendees</b> <span class="details">(<a href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-4'>dobedobedoh</a>, 07:31:47)</span>
<ol type="a">
<li><span class="INFO">dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols - LUNS Ltd,
UK</span> <span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-6'>dobedobedoh</a>,
07:31:51)</span></li>
<li><span class="INFO">anzeljg is Gregor An�elj</span> <span
class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-7'>anzeljg</a>,
07:32:03)</span></li>
<li><span class="INFO">anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT,
NZ</span> <span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-8'>anitsirk</a>,
07:32:09)</span></li>
<li><span class="INFO">richardm is Richard Mansfield</span> <span
class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-9'>richardm</a>,
07:32:11)</span></li>
<li><span class="INFO">elky is Melissa Draper - Catalyst IT, NZ</span>
<span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-10'>elky</a>,
07:32:26)</span></li>
<li><span class="INFO">pxh is Piers Harding, Catalyst</span> <span
class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-11'>pxh</a>,
07:32:30)</span></li>
</ol>
<br></li>
<li><b class="TOPIC">Items from previous meeting</b> <span class="details">(<a href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-16'>dobedobedoh</a>, 07:33:04)</span>
<ol type="a">
<li><span class="INFO">dan_p LUNS to investigate adding a new mahara
integration project to run selenium tests</span> <span
class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-17'>dobedobedoh</a>,
07:33:07)</span></li>
<li><i class="itemtype">ACTION</i>: <span class="ACTION">dan_p LUNS to
investigate adding a new mahara integration project to run selenium
tests</span> <span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-19'>dobedobedoh</a>,
07:33:28)</span></li>
<li><span class="INFO">fmarier is Francois Marier</span> <span
class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-21'>fmarier</a>,
07:33:59)</span></li>
</ol>
<br></li>
<li><b class="TOPIC">Where should we put unit tests? [fmarier and dobedobedoh]</b> <span class="details">(<a href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-26'>dobedobedoh</a>, 07:35:19)</span>
<ol type="a">
<li><i class="itemtype">ACTION</i>: <span class="ACTION">dobedobedoh
to look at modifying the release script, and test running
script</span> <span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-56'>dobedobedoh</a>,
07:42:33)</span></li>
</ol>
<br></li>
<li><b class="TOPIC">Web Services - an update, and request for API ideas [pxh]</b> <span class="details">(<a href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-95'>dobedobedoh</a>, 07:52:36)</span>
<ol type="a">
<li><span class="INFO">Web Services now has OAuth support including
OOB</span> <span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-102'>dobedobedoh</a>,
07:53:37)</span></li>
<li><a
href="https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Plugins/Artefact/WebServices">https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Plugins/Artefact/WebServices</a>
<span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-103'>dobedobedoh</a>,
07:53:43)</span></li>
<li><span class="INFO">Personal user tokens are supported and users
can manage their own tokens for specific API calls</span> <span
class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-104'>dobedobedoh</a>,
07:54:10)</span></li>
<li><span class="INFO">This should open things up more for scripting
opportunities</span> <span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-105'>dobedobedoh</a>,
07:54:57)</span></li>
<li><span class="INFO">Existing APIs mostly centred around
myPortfolio</span> <span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-113'>dobedobedoh</a>,
07:56:48)</span></li>
</ol>
<br></li>
<li><b class="TOPIC">Wiki - Adding extensions to make adding/editing pages easier [zzmonty]</b> <span class="details">(<a href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-141'>dobedobedoh</a>, 08:09:02)</span>
<br></li>
<li><b class="TOPIC">Wiki - Request to allow additional extensions (.zip) to make it easier for user contributed content [zzmonty]</b> <span class="details">(<a href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-147'>dobedobedoh</a>, 08:10:29)</span>
<ol type="a">
<li><span class="INFO">dobedobedoh to add zzmonty's items to the
agenda for the next meeting</span> <span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-150'>dobedobedoh</a>,
08:11:03)</span></li>
</ol>
<br></li>
<li><b class="TOPIC">Next meeting time/date and Chair</b> <span class="details">(<a href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-160'>dobedobedoh</a>, 08:13:30)</span>
<ol type="a">
<li><i class="itemtype">IDEA</i>: <span class="IDEA">Tuesday 1st
November @ 19:30 UTC (19:30 GMT/08:30 NZST)</span> <span
class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-166'>dobedobedoh</a>,
08:14:35)</span></li>
<li><a
href="http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20111108T1930">http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20111108T1930</a>
<span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-177'>fmarier</a>,
08:17:16)</span></li>
<li><i class="itemtype">IDEA</i>: <span class="IDEA">Tuesday 8th
November @ 19:30 UTC (19:30 GMT/08:30 9th NZST) ?</span> <span
class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-182'>dobedobedoh</a>,
08:19:06)</span></li>
<li><i class="itemtype">AGREED</i>: <span class="AGREED"></span> <span
class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-189'>dobedobedoh</a>,
08:20:35)</span></li>
<li><span class="INFO">Next developer meeting to be held on Tuesday
8th November @ 19:30 UTC -
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20111108T1930</span>
<span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-192'>dobedobedoh</a>,
08:21:48)</span></li>
<li><span class="INFO">Next meeting to be chaired by richardm</span>
<span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-204'>dobedobedoh</a>,
08:24:26)</span></li>
</ol>
<br></li>
<li><b class="TOPIC">Any other business</b> <span class="details">(<a href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-207'>dobedobedoh</a>, 08:24:58)</span>
<ol type="a">
<li><span class="INFO">anzeljg wants to let everybody know that his
development Mahara install at http://mahara.ledina.org/DEV/ no
longer exists</span> <span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-219'>anzeljg</a>,
08:25:58)</span></li>
<li><span class="INFO">fmarier hasn't heard back from the author of
pChart about licensing conflicts</span> <span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-268'>dobedobedoh</a>,
08:41:14)</span></li>
<li><span class="INFO">anzeljg implementing eZ Components
instead</span> <span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-269'>dobedobedoh</a>,
08:41:35)</span></li>
<li><span class="INFO">No update on skins support... ongoing</span>
<span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-280'>dobedobedoh</a>,
08:45:40)</span></li>
<li><a
href="https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/721496">https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/721496</a>
<span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-290'>fmarier</a>,
08:48:05)</span></li>
<li><a
href="http://ezcomponents.org/docs/tutorials/Document">http://ezcomponents.org/docs/tutorials/Document</a>
<span class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-302'>anzeljg</a>,
08:50:03)</span></li>
<li><i class="itemtype">HELP</i>: <span class="HELP"></span> <span
class="details">(<a
href='mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html#l-317'>dobedobedoh</a>,
08:55:32)</span></li>
</ol>
</li>
</ol>
<br><br>
<span class="details">
Meeting ended at 09:01:20 UTC
(<a href="mahara-dev.2011-10-05-07.31.log.html">full logs</a>).</span>
<br><br>
<h3>Action items</h3>
<ol>
<li>dan_p LUNS to investigate adding a new mahara integration project to run selenium tests</li>
<li>dobedobedoh to look at modifying the release script, and test running script</li>
</ol>
<br><br>
<h3>Action items, by person</h3>
<ol>
<li> dobedobedoh <ol>
<li>dobedobedoh to look at modifying the release script, and test running script</li>
</ol></li>
</ol>
<br><br>
<h3>People present (lines said)</h3>
<ol>
<li>dobedobedoh (136)</li>
<li>fmarier (75)</li>
<li>elky (27)</li>
<li>pxh (25)</li>
<li>anzeljg (23)</li>
<li>anitsirk (17)</li>
<li>richardm (13)</li>
<li>iarenaza (7)</li>
<li>lamiette (5)</li>
<li>maharameet (3)</li>
<li>maharabot` (1)</li>
</ol>
<br><br>
<span class="details">Generated by <a href="http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot">MeetBot</a> 0.1.4.</span>
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<pre><a name="l-1"></a><span class="tm">07:31:45</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#startmeeting</span><span class="cmdline"></span>
<a name="l-2"></a><span class="tm">07:31:45</span><span class="nk"> &lt;maharameet&gt;</span> Meeting started Wed Oct 5 07:31:45 2011 UTC. The chair is dobedobedoh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
<a name="l-3"></a><span class="tm">07:31:45</span><span class="nk"> &lt;maharameet&gt;</span> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
<a name="l-4"></a><span class="tm">07:31:47</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="topic">#topic </span><span class="topicline">Meeting attendees</span>
<a name="l-5"></a><span class="tm">07:31:49</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Please put #info in front of your name
<a name="l-6"></a><span class="tm">07:31:51</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols - LUNS Ltd, UK</span>
<a name="l-7"></a><span class="tm">07:32:03</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anzeljg&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">anzeljg is Gregor An�elj</span>
<a name="l-8"></a><span class="tm">07:32:09</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anitsirk&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, NZ</span>
<a name="l-9"></a><span class="tm">07:32:11</span><span class="nk"> &lt;richardm&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">richardm is Richard Mansfield</span>
<a name="l-10"></a><span class="tm">07:32:26</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">elky is Melissa Draper - Catalyst IT, NZ</span>
<a name="l-11"></a><span class="tm">07:32:30</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">pxh is Piers Harding, Catalyst</span>
<a name="l-12"></a><span class="tm">07:32:55</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> I think that's everyone at the moment
<a name="l-13"></a><span class="tm">07:32:56</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="hi">Reminder:</span> Please put ".." on a line by itself at the end of a long multi-line speech
<a name="l-14"></a><span class="tm">07:32:59</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> to indicate that you've finished
<a name="l-15"></a><span class="tm">07:33:02</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> ..
<a name="l-16"></a><span class="tm">07:33:04</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="topic">#topic </span><span class="topicline">Items from previous meeting</span>
<a name="l-17"></a><span class="tm">07:33:07</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">dan_p LUNS to investigate adding a new mahara integration project to run selenium tests</span>
<a name="l-18"></a><span class="tm">07:33:25</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> I'm fairly sure that dan_p hasnt' had a chance to work on this one any more yet, so I'll action it again for the next meeting
<a name="l-19"></a><span class="tm">07:33:28</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#action </span><span class="cmdline">dan_p LUNS to investigate adding a new mahara integration project to run selenium tests</span>
<a name="l-20"></a><span class="tm">07:33:49</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Is there anything else to discuss arising from the previous meeting that I've forgotten about?
<a name="l-21"></a><span class="tm">07:33:59</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">fmarier is Francois Marier</span>
<a name="l-22"></a><span class="tm">07:34:05</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> heh, sorry fmarier ;)
<a name="l-23"></a><span class="tm">07:34:09</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> :)
<a name="l-24"></a><span class="tm">07:34:55</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> <span class="hi">dobedobedoh:</span> doesn't look like it from last time's minutes
<a name="l-25"></a><span class="tm">07:35:14</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Excellent :)
<a name="l-26"></a><span class="tm">07:35:19</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="topic">#topic </span><span class="topicline">Where should we put unit tests? [fmarier and dobedobedoh]</span>
<a name="l-27"></a><span class="tm">07:35:34</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Do you want to go first fmarier?
<a name="l-28"></a><span class="tm">07:35:56</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> so i put this down because i thought that the test directory (top-level directory) would be a place for this
<a name="l-29"></a><span class="tm">07:36:13</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> and because we don't need to include unit tests in the tarballs we give to people
<a name="l-30"></a><span class="tm">07:36:27</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> (the test directory is excluded by the build script)
<a name="l-31"></a><span class="tm">07:36:44</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> but you seem to think it would be better to put them somewhere else
<a name="l-32"></a><span class="tm">07:36:44</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> ..
<a name="l-33"></a><span class="tm">07:37:11</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> I think that it could be beneficial to allow for unit tests to be placed within each plugin type
<a name="l-34"></a><span class="tm">07:37:16</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> So for example, to write unit tests for an artefact, we should place tests in /artefact/&lt;pluginname&gt;/tests/phpunit
<a name="l-35"></a><span class="tm">07:37:23</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> This has the benefit that plugins can come fully self-contained copmlete with unit tests
<a name="l-36"></a><span class="tm">07:37:47</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> And if anyone wants to have a plugin included in core, we can require that it comes complete with unit tests
<a name="l-37"></a><span class="tm">07:38:01</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Other projects work along similar lines - e.g. moodle
<a name="l-38"></a><span class="tm">07:38:11</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> we could require that no matter where the tests live though
<a name="l-39"></a><span class="tm">07:38:15</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> We can easily modify the build script to ignore any 'tests' directory
<a name="l-40"></a><span class="tm">07:38:44</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> true, but it would make it easier for anyone using a VCS to have all of the tests easily executable within one location
<a name="l-41"></a><span class="tm">07:38:50</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> and for those who use git submodule for example
<a name="l-42"></a><span class="tm">07:38:53</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> ..
<a name="l-43"></a><span class="tm">07:39:39</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> i'm not opposed to it, but it does make the tarball building script and the test running scripts more complicated
<a name="l-44"></a><span class="tm">07:39:39</span><span class="nk"> &lt;richardm&gt;</span> <span class="hi">dobedobedoh:</span> so in your scheme, where should the core tests go?
<a name="l-45"></a><span class="tm">07:39:52</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> i personally doubt that many third-party plugings will come with unit tests
<a name="l-46"></a><span class="tm">07:40:04</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> but it would certainly be nice
<a name="l-47"></a><span class="tm">07:40:21</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> For libraries in htdocs/lib/tests; and for anything in the top level directory, /htdocs/tests
<a name="l-48"></a><span class="tm">07:40:36</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> I'm not overly concerned as to where they go ultimately
<a name="l-49"></a><span class="tm">07:40:50</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> But I do think we should make it easy for developers to write plugins with unit tests
<a name="l-50"></a><span class="tm">07:41:39</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> ..
<a name="l-51"></a><span class="tm">07:41:40</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> I think I'm with dobedobedoh on this.
<a name="l-52"></a><span class="tm">07:42:01</span><span class="nk"> &lt;richardm&gt;</span> I'm not too worried about where they go
<a name="l-53"></a><span class="tm">07:42:08</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> <span class="hi">dobedobedoh:</span> do you want to look into writing the test running script and modifying the release script to look into the right places?
<a name="l-54"></a><span class="tm">07:42:16</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> yeah I can do :)
<a name="l-55"></a><span class="tm">07:42:23</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> in that case, it's all yours I think :)
<a name="l-56"></a><span class="tm">07:42:33</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#action </span><span class="cmdline">dobedobedoh to look at modifying the release script, and test running script</span>
<a name="l-57"></a><span class="tm">07:42:37</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> heh okay
<a name="l-58"></a><span class="tm">07:43:03</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> There are still a few minor issues with the unit tests
<a name="l-59"></a><span class="tm">07:43:25</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> At present if you try and build test coverage it gets a trifle unhappy as it tries to test every UI file as well as libs
<a name="l-60"></a><span class="tm">07:43:31</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> and complains about files being re-declared
<a name="l-61"></a><span class="tm">07:43:53</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> But I think we should be able to get most of core tested now :)
<a name="l-62"></a><span class="tm">07:44:00</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> ..
<a name="l-63"></a><span class="tm">07:44:09</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> Is this what was crying with the mysql stuff?
<a name="l-64"></a><span class="tm">07:44:32</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Nope... that was ADODB storing the password in $password as 'not stored'
<a name="l-65"></a><span class="tm">07:44:45</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> ... lolwat
<a name="l-66"></a><span class="tm">07:44:46</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Which is fine, until you __sleep and __wakup
<a name="l-67"></a><span class="tm">07:45:02</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> which mysql likes to do i hear.
<a name="l-68"></a><span class="tm">07:45:10</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> As a 'security measure', when you Connect(), after connecting it stores the password as the string literal 'not stored'
<a name="l-69"></a><span class="tm">07:45:17</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Oh sorry... that's the other bug
<a name="l-70"></a><span class="tm">07:45:38</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> That was caused by MySQL losing it's compatibility mode
<a name="l-71"></a><span class="tm">07:45:44</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> It wasn't being re-applied on the __wakup
<a name="l-72"></a><span class="tm">07:45:45</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> ..
<a name="l-73"></a><span class="tm">07:45:58</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> it's a really good thing you caught that
<a name="l-74"></a><span class="tm">07:46:11</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> It would have caused some very interesting issues
<a name="l-75"></a><span class="tm">07:46:47</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> I've outlined my intentions WRT to the testing script at https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Talk:Developer_Area/Unit_Testing
<a name="l-76"></a><span class="tm">07:47:06</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> I'd like to test any database upgrades that we do
<a name="l-77"></a><span class="tm">07:47:14</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> as well as run the full unit tests on a fresh install
<a name="l-78"></a><span class="tm">07:47:20</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> ..
<a name="l-79"></a><span class="tm">07:47:50</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> you're going to *love* the timezone change then when we get to them
<a name="l-80"></a><span class="tm">07:47:57 </span><span class="nka">* fmarier</span> <span class="ac">should start using the cli installer</span>
<a name="l-81"></a><span class="tm">07:48:01</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> heh
<a name="l-82"></a><span class="tm">07:48:17</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Is there anything else to dicuss on unit testing before I move on?
<a name="l-83"></a><span class="tm">07:48:47</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> I'm looking forward to the TZ changes being applied to mahara.org - that's for certain!
<a name="l-84"></a><span class="tm">07:49:21</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> yeah me too!
<a name="l-85"></a><span class="tm">07:49:41</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> "what do you mean it's 11pm? Oh right, that silly island thinks its time is important" :P
<a name="l-86"></a><span class="tm">07:50:15</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> :p
<a name="l-87"></a><span class="tm">07:50:22</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anitsirk&gt;</span> <span class="hi">elky:</span> actually, i think it's texas time that's displayed on mahara.org because that's where the server is. ;-)
<a name="l-88"></a><span class="tm">07:50:56</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> anitsirk, ah, my mistake. still :P
<a name="l-89"></a><span class="tm">07:51:07</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> yeah, it was fine when it was NZ time :P
<a name="l-90"></a><span class="tm">07:51:22</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> It's mightily confusing!
<a name="l-91"></a><span class="tm">07:51:29</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> should just make it UTC and confuse everyone
<a name="l-92"></a><span class="tm">07:51:54</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> anyways, we should probably move to the next agenda item, i think we're done talking about unit tests
<a name="l-93"></a><span class="tm">07:52:01</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> yup
<a name="l-94"></a><span class="tm">07:52:08</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Since zzmonty isn't here yet, I'll jump to pxh's - you ready for it pxh?
<a name="l-95"></a><span class="tm">07:52:36</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="topic">#topic </span><span class="topicline">Web Services - an update, and request for API ideas [pxh]</span>
<a name="l-96"></a><span class="tm">07:52:40</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> yup
<a name="l-97"></a><span class="tm">07:52:44</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> The floor is yours
<a name="l-98"></a><span class="tm">07:53:07</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> ok - this was just an update on where things have got to with the artefact/webservice plugin
<a name="l-99"></a><span class="tm">07:53:19</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> Web Services (https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Plugins/Artefact/WebServices) now has OAuth support including OOB.
<a name="l-100"></a><span class="tm">07:53:19</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> I've also added personal user tokens - a variation on the wstoken as implmented by Moodle - where users can manage their own tokens for specific API calls that have been allocated for general use.
<a name="l-101"></a><span class="tm">07:53:19</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> These general use API calls would typically be ones that only access the users own data eg: mahara_user_get_my_user. I'm hoping that having features like this will open up interesting scripting opportunities on systems like myPortfolio.
<a name="l-102"></a><span class="tm">07:53:37</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">Web Services now has OAuth support including OOB</span>
<a name="l-103"></a><span class="tm">07:53:43</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#link </span><span class="cmdline">https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Plugins/Artefact/WebServices</span>
<a name="l-104"></a><span class="tm">07:54:10</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">Personal user tokens are supported and users can manage their own tokens for specific API calls</span>
<a name="l-105"></a><span class="tm">07:54:57</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">This should open things up more for scripting opportunities</span>
<a name="l-106"></a><span class="tm">07:55:07</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#save</span><span class="cmdline"></span>
<a name="l-107"></a><span class="tm">07:55:08</span><span class="nk"> &lt;richardm&gt;</span> sounds great pxh
<a name="l-108"></a><span class="tm">07:55:12</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> I've written quite a lot of unit tests
<a name="l-109"></a><span class="tm">07:55:27 </span><span class="nka">* dobedobedoh</span> <span class="ac">grins</span>
<a name="l-110"></a><span class="tm">07:55:50</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> the existing APIs are mostly centred around the ministry of Educations (NZ) requirements for myPortfolio
<a name="l-111"></a><span class="tm">07:56:21</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> so it things like user CRUD, groups, and institution membership
<a name="l-112"></a><span class="tm">07:56:30</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> ... not very user centric
<a name="l-113"></a><span class="tm">07:56:48</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">Existing APIs mostly centred around myPortfolio</span>
<a name="l-114"></a><span class="tm">07:56:54</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> so - I was hoping to branch this out to APIs that are of a more generic usefulness
<a name="l-115"></a><span class="tm">07:57:00</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Sounds really handy - I've got a use for that at present
<a name="l-116"></a><span class="tm">07:57:09</span><span class="nk"> &lt;richardm&gt;</span> Alan McNatty is looking at using it for the next maharadroid release
<a name="l-117"></a><span class="tm">07:57:29</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> yup
<a name="l-118"></a><span class="tm">07:57:32</span><span class="nk"> &lt;richardm&gt;</span> He's pretty keen to get the webservice plugin in core
<a name="l-119"></a><span class="tm">07:58:22</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> there is work to do around that
<a name="l-120"></a><span class="tm">07:58:39</span><span class="nk"> &lt;richardm&gt;</span> yeah, i hope to have some free time soonish to help out
<a name="l-121"></a><span class="tm">07:59:27</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> So at present, the API allows CRUD of groups, and institution membership (and presumably CRUD of users too)
<a name="l-122"></a><span class="tm">07:59:41</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> As artefact/webservice is based on the Moodle webservice code base it needs going over - I've spent a lot of time going through it and cleaning out superfluous stuff, but there is still quite a lot to do - I think
<a name="l-123"></a><span class="tm">07:59:42</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> But doesn't allow for users to do anything with the API
<a name="l-124"></a><span class="tm">07:59:55</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anitsirk&gt;</span> sorry to ask, pxh, but what does CRUD stand for?
<a name="l-125"></a><span class="tm">07:59:59</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> <span class="hi">dobedobedoh:</span> yes
<a name="l-126"></a><span class="tm">08:00:07</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> <span class="hi">anitsirk:</span> create, read, update and delete
<a name="l-127"></a><span class="tm">08:00:13</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anitsirk&gt;</span> thanks
<a name="l-128"></a><span class="tm">08:00:27</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anzeljg&gt;</span> anitsirk +1 - i didn't know that too
<a name="l-129"></a><span class="tm">08:01:47</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> so - I'd like to field suggestions for APIs - or atleast have a place for peoples ideas on this front
<a name="l-130"></a><span class="tm">08:01:49</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> ..
<a name="l-131"></a><span class="tm">08:02:34</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> do you want suggestions here/now; or to the wiki page?
<a name="l-132"></a><span class="tm">08:03:36</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> I don't want to hold people up - people can catch me later - and I can organise them onto a wiki page
<a name="l-133"></a><span class="tm">08:03:53</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> but if the creative juices are flowing then don't let me stop you
<a name="l-134"></a><span class="tm">08:04:54</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> I guess one thing which might be helpful is the ability to copy pages
<a name="l-135"></a><span class="tm">08:05:12</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> both from a user to become a template, and from user to user (e.g. administrator to all members of a group)
<a name="l-136"></a><span class="tm">08:05:25</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> But that's probably more a web interface request than API now I think about it...
<a name="l-137"></a><span class="tm">08:06:27</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> ok - noted
<a name="l-138"></a><span class="tm">08:07:06</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Thanks pxh :) The WS API looks good
<a name="l-139"></a><span class="tm">08:07:57</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Unless there are any objections, I'll move on to the next topic then...
<a name="l-140"></a><span class="tm">08:08:58</span><span class="nk"> &lt;pxh&gt;</span> ..
<a name="l-141"></a><span class="tm">08:09:02</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="topic">#topic </span><span class="topicline">Wiki - Adding extensions to make adding/editing pages easier [zzmonty]</span>
<a name="l-142"></a><span class="tm">08:09:24</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> I don't think that zzmonty is here, does anyone want to discuss this in her absence?
<a name="l-143"></a><span class="tm">08:09:33</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> (I've seperated these into two topics btw)
<a name="l-144"></a><span class="tm">08:10:07</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> we should probably do it next time if she's around
<a name="l-145"></a><span class="tm">08:10:14</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> okay
<a name="l-146"></a><span class="tm">08:10:26</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> I'll park it straight onto the next meeting wiki page
<a name="l-147"></a><span class="tm">08:10:29</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="topic">#topic </span><span class="topicline">Wiki - Request to allow additional extensions (.zip) to make it easier for user contributed content [zzmonty]</span>
<a name="l-148"></a><span class="tm">08:10:38</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> I guess the same is true for this one fmarier?
<a name="l-149"></a><span class="tm">08:10:49</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> i've replied to that one on the forum already
<a name="l-150"></a><span class="tm">08:11:03</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">dobedobedoh to add zzmonty's items to the agenda for the next meeting</span>
<a name="l-151"></a><span class="tm">08:11:11</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> basically zip files should be on mahara.org where we can control quotas
<a name="l-152"></a><span class="tm">08:11:23</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> I'm not sure whether this item was added pre or post your comment on the forum
<a name="l-153"></a><span class="tm">08:11:28</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> on the wiki, if we allow zip files, then people have unlimited storage for any kind of content at all
<a name="l-154"></a><span class="tm">08:11:48</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> we can't afford to be a public dropbox :)
<a name="l-155"></a><span class="tm">08:12:11</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> (on the old wiki, i found lots of spam pages and also personal files from random people)
<a name="l-156"></a><span class="tm">08:12:34</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> I don't understand people.
<a name="l-157"></a><span class="tm">08:12:34</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> ..
<a name="l-158"></a><span class="tm">08:12:45</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Okay, well I'll park these for the next meeting then
<a name="l-159"></a><span class="tm">08:13:25</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Which brings us on to the next topic
<a name="l-160"></a><span class="tm">08:13:30</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="topic">#topic </span><span class="topicline">Next meeting time/date and Chair</span>
<a name="l-161"></a><span class="tm">08:13:48</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> and i've got something else for the "any other business" part too
<a name="l-162"></a><span class="tm">08:13:52</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Next month's meeting will be an evening UTC meeting
<a name="l-163"></a><span class="tm">08:14:07</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> okay... AOB will be next ;) I accidentally reversed the order
<a name="l-164"></a><span class="tm">08:14:28</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Anyone have any suggestions for next month?
<a name="l-165"></a><span class="tm">08:14:30</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Tuesday 1st November @ 19:30 UTC (19:30 GMT/08:30 NZST)
<a name="l-166"></a><span class="tm">08:14:35</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#idea </span><span class="cmdline">Tuesday 1st November @ 19:30 UTC (19:30 GMT/08:30 NZST)</span>
<a name="l-167"></a><span class="tm">08:15:05</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> what would it look like the week after?
<a name="l-168"></a><span class="tm">08:15:24</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> because the week after would be after daylight saving kicks in
<a name="l-169"></a><span class="tm">08:15:27</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> 8th November?
<a name="l-170"></a><span class="tm">08:15:29</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Ah okay
<a name="l-171"></a><span class="tm">08:15:34</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anitsirk&gt;</span> the week after or even tuesday evening GMT would be better
<a name="l-172"></a><span class="tm">08:16:21</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anitsirk&gt;</span> isn't daylight savings the last sunday in october?
<a name="l-173"></a><span class="tm">08:16:24 </span><span class="nka">* anitsirk</span> <span class="ac">checks</span>
<a name="l-174"></a><span class="tm">08:16:29</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> So that'd be Tuesday 8th November @ 18:30 UTC (19:30 GMT/08:30 NZST) ?
<a name="l-175"></a><span class="tm">08:17:08</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anitsirk&gt;</span> yep. daylight savings ends on 30 october 2011 for europe
<a name="l-176"></a><span class="tm">08:17:12</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> <span class="hi">dobedobedoh:</span> no
<a name="l-177"></a><span class="tm">08:17:16</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20111108T1930
<a name="l-178"></a><span class="tm">08:17:23</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> UTC doesn't do daylight savings :)
<a name="l-179"></a><span class="tm">08:17:38</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Which bits wrong?
<a name="l-180"></a><span class="tm">08:18:38 </span><span class="nka">* dobedobedoh</span> <span class="ac">spots it</span>
<a name="l-181"></a><span class="tm">08:19:02</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> 19:30 UTC is: 19:30 London time (Tue) and 08:30 NZ time (Wed)
<a name="l-182"></a><span class="tm">08:19:06</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#idea </span><span class="cmdline">Tuesday 8th November @ 19:30 UTC (19:30 GMT/08:30 9th NZST) ?</span>
<a name="l-183"></a><span class="tm">08:19:36</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> it's better to never print out more than one date
<a name="l-184"></a><span class="tm">08:19:46</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> that way you can never have conflicting ones :)
<a name="l-185"></a><span class="tm">08:20:08 </span><span class="nka">* elky</span> <span class="ac">mutters something about timezones.</span>
<a name="l-186"></a><span class="tm">08:20:17 </span><span class="nka">* fmarier</span> <span class="ac">once missed a Mahara meeting because of wrong conversions in the minutes of the previous meeting</span>
<a name="l-187"></a><span class="tm">08:20:26</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anitsirk&gt;</span> time is fine for me
<a name="l-188"></a><span class="tm">08:20:33</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> works for me
<a name="l-189"></a><span class="tm">08:20:35</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#agreed</span><span class="cmdline"></span>
<a name="l-190"></a><span class="tm">08:20:43</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#agreed</span><span class="cmdline"></span>
<a name="l-191"></a><span class="tm">08:20:51</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> Any volunteers for chair?
<a name="l-192"></a><span class="tm">08:21:48</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">Next developer meeting to be held on Tuesday 8th November @ 19:30 UTC - http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20111108T1930</span>
<a name="l-193"></a><span class="tm">08:22:38</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> i'm guessing we've all done it once?
<a name="l-194"></a><span class="tm">08:22:47</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> If no-one comes forward soon, I'll pick someone unsuspecting...
<a name="l-195"></a><span class="tm">08:22:52</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> yeah I think so
<a name="l-196"></a><span class="tm">08:23:36</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> i'll do it then
<a name="l-197"></a><span class="tm">08:23:37</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anitsirk&gt;</span> don't think so
<a name="l-198"></a><span class="tm">08:24:03</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">Next meeting to be chaired by fmarier</span>
<a name="l-199"></a><span class="tm">08:24:06</span><span class="nk"> &lt;richardm&gt;</span> erm, no i haven't done it yet
<a name="l-200"></a><span class="tm">08:24:13</span><span class="nk"> &lt;richardm&gt;</span> i'll do it, sorry
<a name="l-201"></a><span class="tm">08:24:18</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> ooh okay :)
<a name="l-202"></a><span class="tm">08:24:19</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#undo</span><span class="cmdline"></span>
<a name="l-203"></a><span class="tm">08:24:19</span><span class="nk"> &lt;maharameet&gt;</span> Removing item from minutes: &lt;MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x9805f8c&gt;
<a name="l-204"></a><span class="tm">08:24:26</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">Next meeting to be chaired by richardm</span>
<a name="l-205"></a><span class="tm">08:24:27</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> ...
<a name="l-206"></a><span class="tm">08:24:43</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> have you done it elky?
<a name="l-207"></a><span class="tm">08:24:58</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="topic">#topic </span><span class="topicline">Any other business</span>
<a name="l-208"></a><span class="tm">08:25:01</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> <span class="hi">richardm:</span> https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/Chair_Duties
<a name="l-209"></a><span class="tm">08:25:04</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> dobedobedoh, not yet. 5 minutes after i get out of bed isn't the best idea either ;)
<a name="l-210"></a><span class="tm">08:25:07</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> (in case you haven't seen it)
<a name="l-211"></a><span class="tm">08:25:14</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> nex time perhaps
<a name="l-212"></a><span class="tm">08:25:21</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> as in, the one after richardm
<a name="l-213"></a><span class="tm">08:25:22</span><span class="nk"> &lt;richardm&gt;</span> <span class="hi">fmarier:</span> thanks
<a name="l-214"></a><span class="tm">08:25:25</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> heh indeed. I did suggest a while back that we chair in our own evenings
<a name="l-215"></a><span class="tm">08:25:27</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anitsirk&gt;</span> then the december meeting may be yours. that'll be in the evening ;-)
<a name="l-216"></a><span class="tm">08:25:40</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> sounds good
<a name="l-217"></a><span class="tm">08:25:47</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anzeljg&gt;</span> I've got a couple of questions
<a name="l-218"></a><span class="tm">08:25:47</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> fmarier - you had an AOB?
<a name="l-219"></a><span class="tm">08:25:58</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anzeljg&gt;</span> <span class="cmd">#info </span><span class="cmdline">anzeljg wants to let everybody know that his development Mahara install at http://mahara.ledina.org/DEV/ no longer exists</span>
<a name="l-220"></a><span class="tm">08:26:00</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> so the point i wanted to bring up is bug numbers in commits
<a name="l-221"></a><span class="tm">08:26:40</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> <span class="hi">anzeljg:</span> You oky to come after fmarier?
<a name="l-222"></a><span class="tm">08:26:48</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> basically, i think it's a good thing and we've been pretty good at including them, but at the same time, i think that it shouldn't be a strict requirement
<a name="l-223"></a><span class="tm">08:26:50</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anzeljg&gt;</span> yes, sorry to interrupt
<a name="l-224"></a><span class="tm">08:27:33</span><span class="nk"> &lt;elky&gt;</span> fmarier, should we be committing things that don't exist in the bugtracker?
<a name="l-225"></a><span class="tm">08:27:37</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> because it might discourage people from code cleanups and small trivial fixes if they have to take the pain of filing a bug report for them
<a name="l-226"></a><span class="tm">08:27:52</span><span class="nk"> &lt;anitsirk&gt;</span> trivial fixes such as small typos.
<a name="l-227"></a><span class="tm">08:28:16</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> there are clear-cut cases like: you're adding a new feature, or you're fixing a bug that has been nagging a lot of users
<a name="l-228"></a><span class="tm">08:28:32</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> these ones should obviously have bugs so that they're more visible to users and admins
<a name="l-229"></a><span class="tm">08:28:58</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> so i think that it should be a discretionary thing on the part of the reviewers
<a name="l-230"></a><span class="tm">08:29:02</span><span class="nk"> &lt;richardm&gt;</span> yeah i think we already decided they shouldn't be a strict requirement a couple of meetings ago
<a name="l-231"></a><span class="tm">08:29:16</span><span class="nk"> &lt;dobedobedoh&gt;</span> yeah - I'm inclined to agree
<a name="l-232"></a><span class="tm">08:29:18</span><span class="nk"> &lt;fmarier&gt;</span> if a reviewer thinks that it would be useful, then it probably should have one