diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-10-03-20.01.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-10-03-20.01.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..0bdacb95e658e80993b3039682b5d1f77425c659 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-10-03-20.01.html @@ -0,0 +1,151 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev Meeting + + + + +

#mahara-dev Meeting

+ +Meeting started by aarowlaptop at 20:01:24 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Meeting summary

+
    +
  1. The first release candidate for 1.8 was released a few days ago (aarowlaptop, 20:05:41) +
      +
    1. https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=5739 + (aarowlaptop, + 20:06:41)
    2. +
    3. Thank you to dobedobedoh for pointing out the + issues with the skins strings not showing up in Launchpad + (aarowlaptop, + 20:07:29)
    4. +
    +
  2. +
  3. Yesterday we released a minor release with a couple of major security fixes in it (aarowlaptop, 20:08:45) +
      +
    1. https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=5756 + (aarowlaptop, + 20:08:56)
    2. +
    3. Basically there was some of what OWASP calls + "Access control enforced by presentation layer", in our handling of + artefacts & blocks (aarowlaptop, + 20:09:49)
    4. +
    5. https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Access_control_enforced_by_presentation_layer + (aarowlaptop, + 20:09:53)
    6. +
    7. Also, because we're close to the 1.8.0 release, + this was probably the final 1.5 release, in keeping with our release + policy (aarowlaptop, + 20:14:04)
    8. +
    +
  4. +
  5. Discussing the 1.8rc1 release again (aarowlaptop, 20:26:37) +
      +
    1. IDEA: Run a "make a + skin" competition to encourage more testing of the features + (aarowlaptop, + 20:26:58)
    2. +
    3. ACTION: Aaron to get + the "make a skin" contest up on the Mahara forum (aarowlaptop, + 20:34:10)
    4. +
    +
  6. +
  7. Next meeting (aarowlaptop, 20:39:28) +
      +
    1. ACTION: Aaron to send + out an email to confirm the next meeting time and invite people to + chair. (aarowlaptop, + 20:39:42)
    2. +
    +
  8. +
+

+ + + + +Meeting ended at 20:40:27 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Action items

+
    +
  1. Aaron to get the "make a skin" contest up on the Mahara forum
  2. +
  3. Aaron to send out an email to confirm the next meeting time and invite people to chair.
  4. +
+

+ + + +

People present (lines said)

+
    +
  1. aarowlaptop (34)
  2. +
  3. robertl_ (16)
  4. +
  5. maharameet (2)
  6. +
+

+ + + +Generated by MeetBot 0.1.4. + diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-10-03-20.01.log.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-10-03-20.01.log.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..1495b83983dcff8cf770c60cbae5a0e9a9e0302a --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-10-03-20.01.log.html @@ -0,0 +1,79 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev log + + + + +
20:01:24 <aarowlaptop> #startmeeting
+20:01:24 <maharameet> Meeting started Thu Oct  3 20:01:24 2013 UTC.  The chair is aarowlaptop. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
+20:01:24 <maharameet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
+20:02:01 <aarowlaptop> There doesn't seem to be anyone present at the moment, but there's also very little on the agenda this month.
+20:02:52 <aarowlaptop> Hi robertl_
+20:02:52 <robertl_> morning all
+20:03:45 <aarowlaptop> There's not much on the agenda this month, and there aren't many people present (just you and I so far)
+20:04:09 <robertl_> right
+20:04:59 <aarowlaptop> So, I may wait a few minutes to see if anyone else shows up
+20:05:16 <aarowlaptop> Basically all that's on the agenda is:
+20:05:41 <aarowlaptop> #topic The first release candidate for 1.8 was released a few days ago
+20:06:41 <aarowlaptop> #link https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=5739
+20:07:29 <aarowlaptop> #info Thank you to dobedobedoh for pointing out the issues with the skins strings not showing up in Launchpad
+20:08:19 <aarowlaptop> and the other item on the agenda was
+20:08:45 <aarowlaptop> #topic Yesterday we released a minor release with a couple of major security fixes in it
+20:08:56 <aarowlaptop> #link https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=5756
+20:09:49 <aarowlaptop> #info Basically there was some of what OWASP calls "Access control enforced by presentation layer", in our handling of artefacts & blocks
+20:09:53 <aarowlaptop> #link https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Access_control_enforced_by_presentation_layer
+20:12:17 <aarowlaptop> Mahara is *very* thorough about checking the user's permission to do see or do anything with a particular View, but it was a bit lax on checking permission for other things.
+20:14:04 <aarowlaptop> #info Also, because we're close to the 1.8.0 release, this was probably the final 1.5 release, in keeping with our release policy
+20:15:45 <aarowlaptop> So, that's what's on the agenda.
+20:16:45 <robertl_> so how has the community response been to the 1.8 release candidate?
+20:17:03 <robertl_> are lots of bugs being found?
+20:17:42 * robertl_ asks his questions again
+20:17:44 <robertl_> so how has the community response been to the 1.8 release candidate?
+20:17:46 <robertl_> are lots of bugs being found?
+20:18:17 <aarowlaptop> Only 2 that I know of so far
+20:18:49 <robertl_> well hopefully people test now - rather than waiting
+20:18:50 <aarowlaptop> A total of 36 downloads of the release candidate via the Launchpad release page
+20:23:57 <robertl_> having not been around for 1.7 release - do many test and get back to us with issues?
+20:24:16 <aarowlaptop> There weren't a whole lot that time. :)
+20:24:34 <aarowlaptop> although the 1.7.0 release didn't introduce very much of anything
+20:24:55 <aarowlaptop> I think the only new major feature in 1.7 was the selectable licenses system
+20:25:24 <robertl_> right - so we'd like more of a testing /poking about from the community this time
+20:26:15 <robertl_> we should run a 'make a skin' competition to get the community playing with the site :)
+20:26:37 <aarowlaptop> #topic Discussing the 1.8rc1 release again
+20:26:58 <aarowlaptop> #idea Run a "make a skin" competition to encourage more testing of the features
+20:27:51 <robertl_> it could generate some nice skins that people could download to use
+20:30:18 <robertl_> I imagine with the skins that there will be some use cases where things break -  to to css overriding that skins does
+20:31:13 <robertl_> so it would be good if we could find out sooner rather than later any css issues
+20:31:53 <robertl_> eg these skins will work with theme A,B,C but not D,E sort of thing
+20:32:36 <aarowlaptop> Yeah
+20:33:00 <aarowlaptop> We were talking about doing that in order to try to get some default skins to ship with the feature, but we put it on the backburner when we decided not to include default skins
+20:33:09 <aarowlaptop> But, it's a good idea to encourage testing
+20:33:24 <aarowlaptop> I'll post it up on the forum. Or I'll ask Kristina to.
+20:34:10 <aarowlaptop> #action Aaron to get the "make a skin" contest up on the Mahara forum
+20:38:38 <aarowlaptop> Okay, any other topics for discussion?
+20:39:08 <aarowlaptop> I think we can probably call this one a wrap. Since there's no one around at the moment, I'll send out an email about when to hold the next one.
+20:39:19 <robertl_> ok cool
+20:39:28 <aarowlaptop> #topic Next meeting
+20:39:42 <aarowlaptop> #action Aaron to send out an email to confirm the next meeting time and invite people to chair.
+20:40:27 <aarowlaptop> #endmeeting
+ diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-10-03-20.01.log.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-10-03-20.01.log.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..a85a4368a027437f0ff3eb461b775bd2c4a78881 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-10-03-20.01.log.txt @@ -0,0 +1,52 @@ +20:01:24 #startmeeting +20:01:24 Meeting started Thu Oct 3 20:01:24 2013 UTC. The chair is aarowlaptop. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. +20:01:24 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. +20:02:01 There doesn't seem to be anyone present at the moment, but there's also very little on the agenda this month. +20:02:52 Hi robertl_ +20:02:52 morning all +20:03:45 There's not much on the agenda this month, and there aren't many people present (just you and I so far) +20:04:09 right +20:04:59 So, I may wait a few minutes to see if anyone else shows up +20:05:16 Basically all that's on the agenda is: +20:05:41 #topic The first release candidate for 1.8 was released a few days ago +20:06:41 #link https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=5739 +20:07:29 #info Thank you to dobedobedoh for pointing out the issues with the skins strings not showing up in Launchpad +20:08:19 and the other item on the agenda was +20:08:45 #topic Yesterday we released a minor release with a couple of major security fixes in it +20:08:56 #link https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=5756 +20:09:49 #info Basically there was some of what OWASP calls "Access control enforced by presentation layer", in our handling of artefacts & blocks +20:09:53 #link https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Access_control_enforced_by_presentation_layer +20:12:17 Mahara is *very* thorough about checking the user's permission to do see or do anything with a particular View, but it was a bit lax on checking permission for other things. +20:14:04 #info Also, because we're close to the 1.8.0 release, this was probably the final 1.5 release, in keeping with our release policy +20:15:45 So, that's what's on the agenda. +20:16:45 so how has the community response been to the 1.8 release candidate? +20:17:03 are lots of bugs being found? +20:17:42 * robertl_ asks his questions again +20:17:44 so how has the community response been to the 1.8 release candidate? +20:17:46 are lots of bugs being found? +20:18:17 Only 2 that I know of so far +20:18:49 well hopefully people test now - rather than waiting +20:18:50 A total of 36 downloads of the release candidate via the Launchpad release page +20:23:57 having not been around for 1.7 release - do many test and get back to us with issues? +20:24:16 There weren't a whole lot that time. :) +20:24:34 although the 1.7.0 release didn't introduce very much of anything +20:24:55 I think the only new major feature in 1.7 was the selectable licenses system +20:25:24 right - so we'd like more of a testing /poking about from the community this time +20:26:15 we should run a 'make a skin' competition to get the community playing with the site :) +20:26:37 #topic Discussing the 1.8rc1 release again +20:26:58 #idea Run a "make a skin" competition to encourage more testing of the features +20:27:51 it could generate some nice skins that people could download to use +20:30:18 I imagine with the skins that there will be some use cases where things break - to to css overriding that skins does +20:31:13 so it would be good if we could find out sooner rather than later any css issues +20:31:53 eg these skins will work with theme A,B,C but not D,E sort of thing +20:32:36 Yeah +20:33:00 We were talking about doing that in order to try to get some default skins to ship with the feature, but we put it on the backburner when we decided not to include default skins +20:33:09 But, it's a good idea to encourage testing +20:33:24 I'll post it up on the forum. Or I'll ask Kristina to. +20:34:10 #action Aaron to get the "make a skin" contest up on the Mahara forum +20:38:38 Okay, any other topics for discussion? +20:39:08 I think we can probably call this one a wrap. Since there's no one around at the moment, I'll send out an email about when to hold the next one. +20:39:19 ok cool +20:39:28 #topic Next meeting +20:39:42 #action Aaron to send out an email to confirm the next meeting time and invite people to chair. +20:40:27 #endmeeting \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-10-03-20.01.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-10-03-20.01.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..17dda549d6a3000be053bed14986307855e4759c --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-10-03-20.01.txt @@ -0,0 +1,81 @@ +=================== +#mahara-dev Meeting +=================== + + +Meeting started by aarowlaptop at 20:01:24 UTC. The full logs are +available at +http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-10-03-20.01.log.html +. + + + +Meeting summary +--------------- +* The first release candidate for 1.8 was released a few days ago + (aarowlaptop, 20:05:41) + * LINK: https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=5739 + (aarowlaptop, 20:06:41) + * Thank you to dobedobedoh for pointing out the issues with the skins + strings not showing up in Launchpad (aarowlaptop, 20:07:29) + +* Yesterday we released a minor release with a couple of major security + fixes in it (aarowlaptop, 20:08:45) + * LINK: https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=5756 + (aarowlaptop, 20:08:56) + * Basically there was some of what OWASP calls "Access control + enforced by presentation layer", in our handling of artefacts & + blocks (aarowlaptop, 20:09:49) + * LINK: + https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Access_control_enforced_by_presentation_layer + (aarowlaptop, 20:09:53) + * Also, because we're close to the 1.8.0 release, this was probably + the final 1.5 release, in keeping with our release policy + (aarowlaptop, 20:14:04) + +* Discussing the 1.8rc1 release again (aarowlaptop, 20:26:37) + * IDEA: Run a "make a skin" competition to encourage more testing of + the features (aarowlaptop, 20:26:58) + * ACTION: Aaron to get the "make a skin" contest up on the Mahara + forum (aarowlaptop, 20:34:10) + +* Next meeting (aarowlaptop, 20:39:28) + * ACTION: Aaron to send out an email to confirm the next meeting time + and invite people to chair. (aarowlaptop, 20:39:42) + +Meeting ended at 20:40:27 UTC. + + + + +Action Items +------------ +* Aaron to get the "make a skin" contest up on the Mahara forum +* Aaron to send out an email to confirm the next meeting time and invite + people to chair. + + + + +Action Items, by person +----------------------- +* **UNASSIGNED** + * Aaron to get the "make a skin" contest up on the Mahara forum + * Aaron to send out an email to confirm the next meeting time and + invite people to chair. + + + + +People Present (lines said) +--------------------------- +* aarowlaptop (34) +* robertl_ (16) +* maharameet (2) + + + + +Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 + +.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-12-05-08.01.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-12-05-08.01.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..91ca305f356ca26ef29045e2e528e0fccf551cdc --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-12-05-08.01.html @@ -0,0 +1,362 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev Meeting + + + + +

#mahara-dev Meeting

+ +Meeting started by aarow_laptop at 08:01:09 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Meeting summary

+
    +
  1. +
      +
    1. anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, + Wellington, NZ (anitsirk, + 08:02:26)
    2. +
    3. dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols, Moodle Pty Ltd, + Perth, Australia. (dobedobedoh, + 08:02:33)
    4. +
    5. sonn_ is Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Welllington, + NZ (sonn_, + 08:02:35)
    6. +
    7. anzeljg is Gregor Anželj, developer and + translator, Ljubljana, Slovenia (anzeljg, + 08:02:40)
    8. +
    9. aarow_laptop is Aaron Wells, Catalyst IT in + Wellington (aarow_laptop, + 08:02:50)
    10. +
    11. mingard is Jono Mingard, newly of Catalyst IT, + Wellington, NZ (mingard, + 08:02:53)
    12. +
    13. robertl_ is Robert Lyon, developer, Catalyst + IT, Wellington, NZ (robertl_, + 08:03:23)
    14. +
    15. #me is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, + Karlsruhe, Germany (tobiasz, + 08:03:53)
    16. +
    17. /me is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, + Karlsruhe, Germany (tobiasz, + 08:04:01)
    18. +
    19. ghada is Ghada El-Zoghbi, developer, Catalyst + IT, Sydney, Aus (ghada, + 08:04:15)
    20. +
    21. tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, + Karlsruhe, Germany (tobiasz, + 08:04:18)
    22. +
    +
  2. +
  3. Items from last meeting: The "Choose a skin" contest (aarow_laptop, 08:06:28) +
      +
    1. The contest was a success at locating bugs + during the RC stage, and raising interest in skins (aarow_laptop, + 08:11:05)
    2. +
    3. One reported oversight is the inability to set + the color of the topnav (aarow_laptop, + 08:11:30)
    4. +
    5. https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Page_skins + (aarow_laptop, + 08:12:42)
    6. +
    7. we've set up a skins sharing page on the wiki: + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Page_skins (aarow_laptop, + 08:13:09)
    8. +
    +
  4. +
  5. Dropping support for MySQL 5.1, as of Mahara 1.9 (aarow_laptop, 08:14:52) +
      +
    1. http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/mysql-server + (dobedobedoh, + 08:17:59)
    2. +
    3. http://mirror.centos.org/centos/6/os/x86_64/Packages/ + (dobedobedoh, + 08:18:57)
    4. +
    5. https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/System_Administrator%27s_Guide/Requirements + (robertl_, + 08:19:58)
    6. +
    7. ACTION: We should get + a look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop + support for 5.1 (anitsirk, + 08:29:01)
    8. +
    9. ACTION: also, note + that if we can specify 5.1.6 at least, we'll make things easier for + ourselves (aarow_laptop, + 08:31:11)
    10. +
    +
  6. +
  7. Plans & priorities for Mahara 1.9 (aarow_laptop, 08:31:36) +
      +
    1. ACTION: sonn_ will + look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop + support for 5.1. (anitsirk, + 08:32:47)
    2. +
    +
  8. +
  9. Plans & priorities for Mahara 1.9 (aarow_laptop, 08:33:18) +
      +
    1. It's not looking to be as big and exciting of a + release as 1.8 (aarow_laptop, + 08:33:47)
    2. +
    3. We've got mingard working on + accessibility (aarow_laptop, + 08:34:36)
    4. +
    5. And I'd really like to upstream the + improvements to sent messages and notifications being developed by + tobiasz (aarow_laptop, + 08:35:29)
    6. +
    7. Automated test, would be great, but outlook + uncertain at the moment (aarow_laptop, + 08:48:42)
    8. +
    9. extending mahara with tests (unit tests but + also behat) is high on the wishlist as it would facilitate + regression testing, compatibility of new code etc. (anitsirk, + 08:56:14)
    10. +
    +
  10. +
  11. Features funded by Arnes which could go into 1.9 (aarow_laptop, 08:59:20) +
      +
    1. IDEA: The idea is to + take anzeljg's "Progress bar" plugin, which has static set of + artefacts that it observes and based on those artefacts it alculates + the Profile completeness. The plugin could be extended in a way to + implement page/dashboard for institution admins which would list all + available artefacts and the admins would select which artefacts + should count towards Profile completeness for their + institution. (anitsirk, + 09:03:33)
    2. +
    3. the proof-of-concept around the progress bar + plugin and a screenshot can be seen in the Mahara Newsletter, + October 2013 + https://mahara.org/view/artefact.php?artefact=292431&view=36871 + (anitsirk, + 09:08:02)
    4. +
    5. IDEA: Add an interface + for site & instititution admins to customize the default + dashboard page (aarow_laptop, + 09:16:34)
    6. +
    7. IDEA: Put the profile + progress into a non-Block similar to homeinfo (aarow_laptop, + 09:16:43)
    8. +
    9. IDEA: "Cookie + directive" plugin, possibly merged into core (anitsirk, + 09:20:12)
    10. +
    11. rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster + University, UK. (rkabalin, + 09:25:00)
    12. +
    13. IDEA: Social site + addresses in user's profile (anitsirk, + 09:30:12)
    14. +
    15. the wishlist item for the social sites in the + profile has been updated: + https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/605749 (anitsirk, + 09:36:40)
    16. +
    17. there is a new wishlist item for changes to the + "General" tab at + https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1258067 (anitsirk, + 09:37:01)
    18. +
    19. IDEA: for implementing + more flexibility for adding (new) social sites: the advantage to + doing something like the iframe page, is that it provides a bit more + polish and consistency to the experience. You'd have the admins + enter a list of social network sites, potentially define a URL + template for each one, and specify whether they want a freetext + "Other" option (anitsirk, + 09:53:47)
    20. +
    21. IDEA: (anitsirk, + 09:54:04)
    22. +
    23. IDEA: Adding + functionality to place comment/feedback on each individual block on + a page (anitsirk, + 09:54:08)
    24. +
    25. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1037531 + for additional information from other users for comment / feedback + improvements (anitsirk, + 10:10:34)
    26. +
    27. ACTION: dajan to + gather some information from tutors and ePortfolio assessors to find + out their needs in this area (aarow_laptop, + 10:17:22)
    28. +
    29. robertl updated the release schedule at + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/6MonthlyCycle (anitsirk, + 10:19:06)
    30. +
    +
  12. +
  13. Next meeting & chair (aarow_laptop, 10:21:06) +
      +
    1. anzeljg will chair the 40th Mahara developer + meeting on 23 January at 8:00 UTC. See + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=30th+Mahara+dev+meeting&iso=20130123T08 + for the time zone conversion (anitsirk, + 10:36:13)
    2. +
    3. the deadline for the next mahara newsletter + will be 24 december 2013. if you have an article to include, please + send the 100-150 words to newsletter@mahara.org (anitsirk, + 10:40:28)
    4. +
    +
  14. +
+

+ + + + +Meeting ended at 10:43:29 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Action items

+
    +
  1. We should get a look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1
  2. +
  3. also, note that if we can specify 5.1.6 at least, we'll make things easier for ourselves
  4. +
  5. sonn_ will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1.
  6. +
  7. dajan to gather some information from tutors and ePortfolio assessors to find out their needs in this area
  8. +
+

+ + + +

Action items, by person

+
    +
  1. dajan
      +
    1. dajan to gather some information from tutors and ePortfolio assessors to find out their needs in this area
    2. +
  2. +
  3. sonn_
      +
    1. sonn_ will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1.
    2. +
  4. +
  5. UNASSIGNED
      +
    1. We should get a look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1
    2. +
    3. also, note that if we can specify 5.1.6 at least, we'll make things easier for ourselves
    4. +
    +
  6. +
+

+ + + +

People present (lines said)

+
    +
  1. aarow_laptop (199)
  2. +
  3. anitsirk (128)
  4. +
  5. anzeljg (126)
  6. +
  7. mingard (33)
  8. +
  9. dobedobedoh (33)
  10. +
  11. dajan (32)
  12. +
  13. robertl_ (31)
  14. +
  15. ghada (22)
  16. +
  17. tobiasz (13)
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  21. aarow_laptop_ (8)
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  23. rkabalin (4)
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  25. maharameet (4)
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08:01:09 <aarow_laptop> #startmeeting
+08:01:09 <maharameet> Meeting started Thu Dec  5 08:01:09 2013 UTC.  The chair is aarow_laptop. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
+08:01:09 <maharameet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
+08:02:21 <aarow_laptop> I'd like to start the meeting as we always do by asking everyone to introduce themselves, preceeding it with #info so it'll show up in the minutes
+08:02:26 <anitsirk> #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:02:33 <dobedobedoh> #info dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols, Moodle Pty Ltd, Perth, Australia.
+08:02:35 <sonn_> #info sonn_ is Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Welllington, NZ
+08:02:40 <anzeljg> #info anzeljg is Gregor Anželj, developer and translator, Ljubljana, Slovenia
+08:02:50 <aarow_laptop> #info aarow_laptop is Aaron Wells, Catalyst IT in Wellington
+08:02:53 <mingard> #info mingard is Jono Mingard, newly of Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:03:23 <robertl_> #info robertl_ is Robert Lyon, developer, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:03:29 <aarow_laptop> Hi ghada, we were just doing introductions. Please introduce yourself, preceeding it with #info so you'll show up in the auto-generated minutes
+08:03:53 <tobiasz> #info #me is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany
+08:04:01 <tobiasz> #info /me is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany
+08:04:15 <ghada> #info ghada is Ghada El-Zoghbi, developer, Catalyst IT, Sydney, Aus
+08:04:18 <tobiasz> #info tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany
+08:04:29 <anitsirk> tobiasz: what is the KIT? Karlsruhe Institute of Technology?
+08:04:47 <tobiasz> yep
+08:04:49 <aarow_laptop> whoops, I got disconnected for a few seconds there
+08:04:50 <dobedobedoh> For those interested, the live minutes are at http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-12-05-08.01.log.txt (if you want to find out who people are and missed it)
+08:05:09 <aarow_laptop> just what I needed :)
+08:05:55 <aarow_laptop> Well, is that everyone who's actually present and not just leaving their IRC signed in 24/7? ;)
+08:06:09 <anitsirk> aarow_laptop: i think so
+08:06:18 <aarow_laptop> okay, then
+08:06:28 <aarow_laptop> #topic Items from last meeting: The "Choose a skin" contest
+08:07:07 <aarow_laptop> anitsirk, I think you ran the contest, do you have want to say anything about it?
+08:07:31 <anitsirk> ehm. nope. not much. don't know why you put it on the agenda. ;-) just a few words then I guess:
+08:07:59 <aarow_laptop> I think at the last meeting (two months ago) it was still a proposal, and it got bumped to "discuss at next meeting"
+08:08:28 <anitsirk> It was the first time that we ran a competition that robertl_ and aarow_laptop had come up with. it was great because we got some people to submit skins using anzeljg's new feature.
+08:08:37 <robertl_> the contest did help find a bug or two in skins so that was useful
+08:08:51 <anitsirk> it was great to see what users had come up with and also see the power of the skins and that you can create some pretty cool stuff.
+08:09:21 <robertl_> and was good to see how mahara folks would use it
+08:09:25 <aarow_laptop> and it showed us that we didn't have a very convenient central place for people to share skins
+08:09:38 <anitsirk> the hidden goal was to get users to test the feature, but it was also good to garner interest in this feature.
+08:09:50 <anzeljg> the main "complaint" when creating skins was to add support for choosing menu colors
+08:10:08 <aarow_laptop> anzeljg: which menus?
+08:10:18 <anzeljg> which are shown on page
+08:10:22 <robertl_> the topnav you mean?
+08:10:25 <anzeljg> yep
+08:10:29 <aarow_laptop> oh, right
+08:11:05 <aarow_laptop> #info The contest was a success at locating bugs during the RC stage, and raising interest in skins
+08:11:30 <aarow_laptop> #info One reported oversight is the inability to set the color of the topnav
+08:12:05 <aarow_laptop> Oh yeah, we wound up turning on the ability to attach XML files to wiki.mahara.org, and I think that's where we're telling people to post skins they want to share
+08:12:18 <anitsirk> wasn't it zip files?
+08:12:37 <aarow_laptop> maybe it was zip files
+08:12:42 <aarow_laptop> https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Page_skins
+08:12:57 <aarow_laptop> many people have also just hosted them as files in their mahara.org accounts
+08:13:00 <anitsirk> afaik we turned on zip files and pdfs
+08:13:09 <aarow_laptop> #info we've set up a skins sharing page on the wiki: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Page_skins
+08:13:33 <aarow_laptop> okay, if there's nothing else about skins, we'll move on to the next topic
+08:14:06 <anitsirk> oops. and there we lost him again.
+08:14:15 <aarow_laptop> whoops, disconnected again
+08:14:21 <aarow_laptop> I seem to be having some technical issues tonight
+08:14:52 <aarow_laptop> #topic Dropping support for MySQL 5.1, as of Mahara 1.9
+08:15:44 <aarow_laptop> I want to drop support for MySQL 5.1 in the next release, since 5.5 has been out for 4 years now, and our devs aren't actively testing on 5.1 anymore anyway
+08:15:52 <robertl_> with the increased reliance on triggers / procedures mysql 5.1 isn't going to cut it
+08:16:11 <aarow_laptop> does it have different trigger & procedure syntax?
+08:16:15 <ghada> Also, support for 5.1 (Oracle) has stopped.
+08:16:37 <ghada> It has different permisisons.
+08:16:53 <mingard> so hopefully potential clients will no longer be running 5.1?
+08:16:58 <dobedobedoh> What's the version bundled in major distros?
+08:17:01 <ghada> It's been "streamlined" and a new permission has been added just for triggers.
+08:17:18 <ghada> not sure...
+08:17:20 <aarow_laptop> debian & Ubuntu come with 5.5 I believe
+08:17:30 <mingard> ubuntu 12.04+ come with 5.5
+08:17:33 <dobedobedoh> Wheezy = 5.5
+08:17:44 <dobedobedoh> We can't drop support if major distros are still using 5.1 IMHO
+08:17:46 <ghada> that sounds right. Three months ago I installed Ubuntu and it's 5.5
+08:17:49 <dobedobedoh> So DeadRat?
+08:17:59 <dobedobedoh> http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/mysql-server
+08:18:31 <dobedobedoh> CentOS seems to still bundle 5.1
+08:18:55 <anitsirk> but we don't officially support centos
+08:18:57 <dobedobedoh> http://mirror.centos.org/centos/6/os/x86_64/Packages/
+08:19:04 <dobedobedoh> We don't officially support any OS do we?
+08:19:29 <anitsirk> the mahara registration information isn't helpful at all. for postgres it says "postgres7" though i'm running 9.1 if i'm not mistaken.
+08:19:58 <robertl_> https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/System_Administrator%27s_Guide/Requirements
+08:20:03 <aarow_laptop> whoops, disconnected again
+08:20:16 <robertl_> says we officially support debian and ubuntu
+08:20:21 <dobedobedoh> Hm, when did that come in?!?
+08:20:23 <anitsirk> aarow_laptop: are you using the web client?
+08:20:32 <aarow_laptop> no, I'm using xchat. maybe I should switch, though
+08:20:43 <anitsirk> robertl_: but we don't do debian packages at the moment.
+08:21:05 <aarow_laptop> well, our support in that sense means that we will actively work to make it run on Debian
+08:21:14 <aarow_laptop> albeit now, by manually installing it
+08:21:18 <anzeljg> whishlist: centos would be nice...
+08:21:20 <robertl_> right
+08:21:45 <sonn_> I go for CentOS
+08:21:54 <dobedobedoh> Personally, I'm a Debian user, but I think we should consider the CentOS users too.
+08:22:17 <aarow_laptop> hm, it's an interesting point
+08:22:18 <anitsirk> can we leave that discussion to another topic / time and focus on mysql, please? ;-)
+08:22:33 <dobedobedoh> anitsirk: They're intrinsically linked.
+08:22:36 <mingard> according to the wiki we support ubuntu 10.04, which doesn't have mysql 5.5 afaik - that would need to be updated if we switch
+08:22:44 <dobedobedoh> Ditto for Lenny
+08:23:06 <aarow_laptop> okay, let's do this
+08:23:17 <aarow_laptop> take a look at the major distros & their versions
+08:23:23 <aarow_laptop> and see what MySQL versions they support
+08:23:29 <tobiasz> is there any (statistical) data about the systems people are installing mahara on?
+08:23:50 <dobedobedoh> Might be wise to sk Partners too aarow_laptop
+08:23:52 <aarow_laptop> Let me check the "phone home" data
+08:24:21 <anitsirk> aarow_laptop: it's not useful for postgres as it only says postgres7. doubt it's acurate for mysql.
+08:25:41 <aarow_laptop_> another way to look at it, though, is that the "supported systems" is also a reflection of which systems are we actually testing it on
+08:26:19 <aarow_laptop_> and in point of fact, at Catalyst NZ these days we're just testing it on Ubuntu with Postgres 9 & MySQL 5.5
+08:26:42 <ghada> Same in Catalyst, Australia
+08:26:50 <robertl_> the devs certainly are
+08:27:05 <aarow_laptop_> I think if we got some automated testing set up, then it would be more feasible to run those automated tests on other distro's
+08:27:08 <robertl_> the testers branch out a bit more with OS / devices
+08:27:22 <dobedobedoh> We'd need to write some phpunit tests...
+08:28:03 <aarow_laptop_> okay, so I think we can summarize this topic
+08:28:27 <aarow_laptop_> We should get a look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1
+08:28:46 <aarow_laptop_> and... well, I guess that's the main action item
+08:29:01 <anitsirk> #action We should get a look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1
+08:29:06 <aarow_laptop_> thanks anitsirk
+08:29:17 <anitsirk> now we just need someone to attach to the action item :-)
+08:29:24 <dobedobedoh> aarow_laptop_: you'll need to rename to attach items ;)
+08:29:31 <aarow_laptop_> oh
+08:31:11 <aarow_laptop> #action also, note that if we can specify 5.1.6 at least, we'll make things easier for ourselves
+08:31:28 <aarow_laptop> Okay, next topic
+08:31:36 <aarow_laptop> #topic Plans & priorities for Mahara 1.9
+08:31:38 <anitsirk> aarow_laptop: wait
+08:31:50 <anitsirk> who is going to find out?
+08:31:55 <aarow_laptop> oh :)
+08:32:13 <sonn_> I will do
+08:32:18 <aarow_laptop> thanks sonn_
+08:32:47 <anitsirk> #action sonn_ will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1.
+08:33:10 <aarow_laptop> so, moving on the
+08:33:18 <aarow_laptop> #topic Plans & priorities for Mahara 1.9
+08:33:47 <aarow_laptop> #info It's not looking to be as big and exciting of a release as 1.8
+08:33:53 <anitsirk> there must be something in the nz air. i got dropped off the channel as well. :-(
+08:34:36 <aarow_laptop> #info We've got mingard working on accessibility
+08:35:29 <aarow_laptop> #info And I'd really like to upstream the improvements to sent messages and notifications being developed by tobiasz
+08:35:30 <mingard> seems to me that we can get A level accessibility quite easily, possibly AA as well before release
+08:35:41 <mingard> but I need to do more research into exactly what will be involved
+08:35:45 <aarow_laptop> good to hear
+08:35:54 <dobedobedoh> The text editor will get in your way there
+08:36:27 <mingard> tinyMCE?
+08:36:29 <dobedobedoh> TinyMCE is non-compliant
+08:36:37 <dobedobedoh> We're going through that atm
+08:36:45 <aarow_laptop> at Moodle?
+08:36:48 <dobedobedoh> Yup
+08:37:07 <dobedobedoh> We're looking at replacing TinyMCE 3.5; 4.X is better, but still not great
+08:37:18 <mingard> might work just having an option to turn it off
+08:37:27 <mingard> but I'm not sure where that should go
+08:37:34 <anitsirk> mingard and our accessibility expert are working on reviewing mahara for accessibility issues so that we can get a good overview of where work would be necessary. we'll then have a good picture of the pain areas and those that could be fixed more easily. we may not be able to address all issues at once, but at least we'll know where work would be needed. ideally, we'll also get some funding for improving the accessibility. if anyone knows of
+08:37:48 <anitsirk> possibility to tap into, please let us know.
+08:38:37 <aarow_laptop> mingard: Well, we could add a "screenreader compatibility" setting to the account settings
+08:38:47 <anitsirk> mingard: you can already do that at the moment under user settings :-)
+08:38:55 <aarow_laptop> oh, that too
+08:39:01 <aarow_laptop> you can actually turn off the wysiwyg editor
+08:39:10 <mingard> ok, I'll look into it
+08:39:21 <mingard> maybe just some more explanation that screen reader users should do this
+08:39:34 <anitsirk> i thought that's what moodle was doing as well.
+08:39:48 <mingard> also note so far we've only really looked at viewing things (not editing) so edit functionality may need a lot more work
+08:40:00 <aarow_laptop> perhaps if we wind up with a list of things like that, we could put together a page in the Mahara manual or something, about how to optimize your Mahara experience for accessibility
+08:40:19 <aarow_laptop> yes :)
+08:40:28 <mingard> good idea, I'll bear it in mind
+08:40:32 <dobedobedoh> We're trying to make everything ARIA compliant, everywhere with a view to dropping the screenreader setting
+08:40:53 <dobedobedoh> So that there's only one interface, and it's an accessible one.
+08:41:04 <anitsirk> we were definitely planning on creating bugs for the issues and also having some information on the wiki in regards to overall accessibility because we've been asked this question in the past / recently.
+08:41:30 <anitsirk> dobedobedoh: that's a great approach.
+08:42:13 <mingard> agreed, ideally we'll also use it
+08:42:42 <aarow_laptop> well, shall we move on to the next bit?
+08:43:26 <aarow_laptop> so, there was accessibility
+08:43:35 <ghada> any action required?
+08:43:55 <aarow_laptop> Well, mingard's already working on accessibility
+08:44:07 <aarow_laptop> so no further action I think :)
+08:44:31 <mingard> ok, shall I update at the next meeting
+08:44:33 <mingard> ?
+08:44:54 <aarow_laptop> The next thing in our 1.9 plans, was to get in the improvements to the "sent messages" and inbox
+08:45:13 <aarow_laptop> which I believe both tobiasz and another developer on the forum are both working on different versions of
+08:45:18 <ghada> auto testing?
+08:45:27 <anitsirk> mingard: good idea.
+08:46:02 <aarow_laptop> tobiasz, I've been meaning to look at your patch, I'll try to get to that asap
+08:47:36 <aarow_laptop> I also put "automated testing" on the agenda, but that's more of a wishlist item than a likelihood. However, the folks at Totara seem to finally be starting on their Mahara-related project, and they're pretty big on automated testing, so I'm hoping we can get them to do some work towards writing some tests for Mahara
+08:48:18 <robertl_> or at least settle on a good test framework that we can use
+08:48:21 <tobiasz> aarow_laptop: ok, I'll wait for your comments. It's programmed as a pure plugin so far but we can integrate it into the core. Just wanted to see what you (all) think about the implementation, first
+08:48:42 <aarow_laptop> #info Automated test, would be great, but outlook uncertain at the moment
+08:48:56 <aarow_laptop> Okay, next item
+08:49:04 <aarow_laptop> #topic: Features funded by Arnes which could go into 1.9
+08:49:09 <dobedobedoh> We already have a test framewrok
+08:49:11 <aarow_laptop> anzeljg?
+08:49:14 <anitsirk> tobiasz: we were thinking of going over the discussion you had with angela again and see if maybe a combo of your work would be a good idea as she also had good points.
+08:49:15 <dobedobedoh> But no-one has ever written any tests for it
+08:49:41 <anzeljg> It seems that two parallel conversations are going on.
+08:49:48 <aarow_laptop> dobedobedoh: yep, the framework isn't so much the problem, it's the tests
+08:49:49 <anzeljg> Shall I wait for couple of minutes?
+08:49:55 <anitsirk> yeah. we aren't quite finished with the previous topic. ;-)
+08:49:59 <aarow_laptop> oh, sorry
+08:50:04 <aarow_laptop> I think I may have had some lag there
+08:50:04 <dobedobedoh> Please undo ;)
+08:50:08 <aarow_laptop> #undo
+08:50:08 <maharameet> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x2b8cbd0>
+08:50:45 <dobedobedoh> As I say, we already have phpunit implemented. It's Mjollnir`'s code which I sponsored and had integrated
+08:50:58 <dobedobedoh> Unfortunately I then changed employ and haven't done as much mahara dev since and no-one else has written any tests either
+08:51:08 <dobedobedoh> but the basis is there
+08:51:30 <mingard> does totara also use phpunit?
+08:51:35 <dobedobedoh> Moodle does
+08:51:41 <dobedobedoh> And since Totara == Moodle
+08:52:56 <aarow_laptop> I'm actually more interested in setting it up to some behat testing, front-end stuff
+08:53:05 <aarow_laptop> which Moodle also does these days
+08:53:11 <dobedobedoh> Indeed so
+08:54:01 <anitsirk> that's where we got the idea from ;-)
+08:54:03 <aarow_laptop> we've even had some training with the Catalyst QA team to prepare them to write gherkin tests (for Moodle)
+08:56:14 <anitsirk> #info extending mahara with tests (unit tests but also behat) is high on the wishlist as it would facilitate regression testing, compatibility of new code etc.
+08:57:35 <aarow_laptop> okay, next topic?
+08:57:36 <tobiasz> and compatibility of 3rd party plugins. I'd highly appreciate the tests
+08:59:20 <aarow_laptop> #topic Features funded by Arnes which could go into 1.9
+09:00:05 <aarow_laptop> anzeljg?
+09:00:06 <anzeljg> The first three will be funded by Arnes, about hte last the conversation is still going on...
+09:00:14 <anzeljg> 1. Dinamical "Progress bar" based on Institution selected preferences
+09:00:15 <aarow_laptop> oh, sorry
+09:00:26 <anzeljg> The idea is to take my "Progress bar" plugin, which has static set of artefacts that it observes and based on those artefacts it alculates the Profile completeness. The plugin could be extended in a way to implement page/dashboard for institution admins which would list all available artefacts and the admins would select which artefacts should count towards Profile completeness for their institution. Would it also be a good idea to
+09:00:45 <anzeljg> of those artefacts? To explain a little bit: select/drop-down box with options from 0 to e.g. 5 where that number would mean the occurance of each artefact type (0 = artefact does not count toward Profile completeness, 5 = 5 artefacts of that type count toward Profile completeness but user could also add less than 5 artefacts)
+09:00:53 <anzeljg> ..
+09:01:19 <anzeljg> Sorry, I meant do anyone has comments before I move on to number2 ?
+09:01:37 <aarow_laptop> I like the idea of a profile progress bar :)
+09:02:24 <anitsirk> anzeljg: do you have a screenshot or reference site? i remember having it seen somewhere.
+09:02:40 <anzeljg> I'll try to find it...
+09:02:48 <robertl_> me too - it gives new users a task to complete
+09:02:52 <anitsirk> i also like the idea of an admin (institution admin?) being able to select which items count towards completeness.
+09:03:01 <mingard> so do I. Not sure how sophisticated the config needs to be (would be quite nice to have a number input ...)
+09:03:33 <anitsirk> #idea The idea is to take anzeljg's "Progress bar" plugin, which has static set of artefacts that it observes and based on those artefacts it alculates the Profile completeness. The plugin could be extended in a way to implement page/dashboard for institution admins which would list all available artefacts and the admins would select which artefacts should count towards Profile completeness for their institution.
+09:04:40 <anzeljg> anitsirk: the article was published in las newsletter, but the link https://mahara.org/newsletter  doesn't work
+09:05:02 <anitsirk> anzeljg: it does work for me.
+09:05:23 <anzeljg> strange... anyway there should be a screenshot
+09:05:25 <anitsirk> sorry that i forgot that it was in the newsletter
+09:05:34 <anitsirk> and yes, there is a screenshot.
+09:05:43 <anzeljg> :)
+09:06:00 <aarow_laptop> yep, I see, looks good from the screenshot at least
+09:06:35 <robertl_> so when task are completed do they disappear from list?
+09:06:44 <anzeljg> when it's completed maybe we could discuss implementing it into core, if you wish?
+09:06:49 <anzeljg> robertl_: yes
+09:06:56 <robertl_> cool
+09:07:12 <anitsirk> would that require that the dashboard is made more flexible, i.e. the admin can decide which blocks to place on the dashboard?
+09:07:46 <aarow_laptop> Indeed, it seems like this is a feature that would make the most sense if an admin could have it automatically show up in the default dashboard
+09:07:53 <anzeljg> i'm not sure. currently i've made it so that for existing and new users the block is added to position 0 at right column...
+09:08:02 <anitsirk> #info the proof-of-concept around the progress bar plugin and a screenshot can be seen in the Mahara Newsletter, October 2013 https://mahara.org/view/artefact.php?artefact=292431&view=36871
+09:08:28 <anitsirk> but it would only make sense to have if the admin configured some sort of completion.
+09:08:31 <anzeljg> aarow: yes it shows at default dashboard, for current and new users
+09:08:48 <anzeljg> anitsirk: wha do you mean?
+09:09:07 <ghada> and the user can remove it from their dashboard if they wish?
+09:09:24 <anzeljg> ghada: haven't tested that - i think so
+09:09:25 <anitsirk> if an admin doesn't want to have a progress bar show up on the dashboard, it should not be placed there by default for existing and new users.
+09:09:35 <anitsirk> removing it should also be possible like for every other block.
+09:09:36 <anzeljg> anitsirk: i see
+09:10:17 <aarow_laptop> I see, the block has a postinst() method which adds it to all the existing dashboards, and to the default dashboard template
+09:10:33 <mingard> is it listed in the blocks menu? how does the user get it back if they remove it by accident?
+09:10:41 <anzeljg> anitsirk: so there should be a setting in plugin settings to allow admin to swithc plugin on/off?
+09:10:54 <anzeljg> i thought that turning the plugin off is enough
+09:11:02 <aarow_laptop> Yeah, that would do it
+09:11:27 <aarow_laptop> mingard: Yes, the block is set so that a user could re-add it to their Dashboard page if they remove it
+09:11:40 <mingard> ok, just checking
+09:11:58 <ghada> so, not like the homeinfo?
+09:12:04 <anitsirk> then i think there should be some sort of help before turning it on though esp. when it places a new block on a person's dashboard. normally, we do not touch existing pages and add things or change things as users can customize them to their liking.
+09:12:16 <aarow_laptop> true
+09:12:20 <anitsirk> ghada: homeinfo is different from blocks.
+09:12:33 <aarow_laptop> well, we'll need to give some thought to the automated placement thing when upstreaming it
+09:12:40 <anzeljg> agree
+09:12:41 <anitsirk> homeinfo is a template that the admin controls whereas the rest of the dashboard blocks is user controlled though we have default blocks there.
+09:12:47 <ghada> yes, but the mechanism to switch it off is in the user settings also.
+09:12:54 <aarow_laptop> I think the most logical thing (and kind of a missing bit of Mahara functionality anyway) would be to let admins configure the default Dashboard page
+09:13:15 <anitsirk> +1. but that would need to be done on institution level
+09:13:15 <aarow_laptop> currently you can do that with a hack, by logging in as the root user
+09:13:38 <anzeljg> that is the hack, i've used :)
+09:14:10 <aarow_laptop> ghada: Yeah, homeinfo is not actually a block. Although it could make sense to display the profile progress in a similar, non-Block fashion
+09:14:10 <aarow_laptop> on the other hand, we've already got it fully implemented as a Block :)
+09:14:44 <tobiasz> but configuring the dashboard page doesn't help when you introduce the plugin into a running system/with existing user accounts
+09:15:16 <aarow_laptop> correct, changes to the default dashboard would only affect new users
+09:16:02 <mingard> there's no way to have some sort of installation wizard for the plugin with an option to update existing users' dashboards?
+09:16:34 <aarow_laptop> #idea Add an interface for site & instititution admins to customize the default dashboard page
+09:16:39 <anzeljg> that's why the plugin currently updates the default dashboard (for new future users) and also dashboards of every exisitng user
+09:16:42 <ghada> that would be some might sql wranglings...
+09:16:43 <aarow_laptop> #idea Put the profile progress into a non-Block similar to homeinfo
+09:17:00 <anitsirk> mingard: normally, we don't touch users' existing pages as they could have highly customized them.
+09:17:31 <aarow_laptop> actually it wouldn't be too hard for admins to customize the default dashboard page
+09:18:00 <mingard> I see. having it set up like homeinfo makes sense to me, it's not the sort of thing you would want to add to multiple pages for example
+09:18:01 <aarow_laptop> it's stored as a normal page in the DB
+09:18:01 <aarow_laptop> it just belongs to the usually inacessible "root" user 0
+09:18:02 <aarow_laptop> if you give the "root" user a password, you can log in as them and edit it already
+09:19:04 <aarow_laptop> okay, well, not to shut down the discussion, but we are running a bit late, so I suggest we move on to the next item of anzeljg's :)
+09:19:13 <anzeljg> where do you set a plugin to be non-Block?
+09:19:28 <anitsirk> anzeljg: i don't think you can do that.
+09:19:45 <anzeljg> ok we'll discuss that later, over email or sth...
+09:19:46 <aarow_laptop> anzeljg: There's no plugin type for it. So, it's something we'd have to hard-code
+09:19:59 <anzeljg> 2. "Cookie directive" plugin, possibly merged into core
+09:20:00 <aarow_laptop> ... or invent a plugin type
+09:20:12 <anitsirk> #idea "Cookie directive" plugin, possibly merged into core
+09:20:12 <anzeljg> The plugin is already implemented, you can see it in action at #link http://listovnik.sio.si (bottom right side of page - "Nastavitev zasebnosti" = "Privacy settings"). It should be noted that plugin works with $cfg->additionalhtmlhead setting, so it only works in Mahara 1.8 or newer.
+09:20:19 <anzeljg> Also there is an issue with language support - the language strings are written as a part of javascript which is written to $cfg->additionalhtmlhead setting.
+09:20:28 <anzeljg> It is possible for admin to select appropriate language when applaying settings for the plugin, but the language strings don't update dinamically - if the site supports several languages and user dinamically changes the language then that language change is not reflected, the plugin still uses the language that was set in plugin settings in admin area.
+09:20:29 <anzeljg> ..
+09:20:32 <anitsirk> This gets a high +1 from me because it is necessary for european sites.
+09:22:05 <aarow_laptop> anzeljg: If we incorporate it into core, then it won't have to be sent via $cfg->additionalhtmlhead, and that should help resolve the language string issues
+09:22:36 <anitsirk> this should be a site admin check box.
+09:22:51 <anitsirk> no institution setting necessary because the entire site is affected.
+09:23:32 <anzeljg> anitsirk: you've lost me, what should be a site admin check box?
+09:23:43 <anzeljg> arrow: nice
+09:23:47 <anitsirk> whether to set the cookie directive or not
+09:24:15 <anitsirk> the admin shouldn't have to change something on the server, but just tick a box and say whether they require the directive or not
+09:24:46 <aarow_laptop> Am I correct in assuming that what this feature does, is implements compatibility with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_on_Privacy_and_Electronic_Communications ?
+09:25:00 <rkabalin> #info rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, UK.
+09:25:17 <anzeljg> anitsirk: ther'e more to is, since the colors etc. could be dinamically changed and also the consent mode, etc.
+09:25:33 <anitsirk> hi rkabalin
+09:25:33 <anzeljg> but yes, the for for the admin to set all the stuff
+09:25:51 <anzeljg> aarow: yes
+09:25:58 <anzeljg> in EU it's mandatory!
+09:26:46 <aarow_laptop> (I'm skimming the simpler explanation at http://www.theeucookielaw.com/ )
+09:26:48 <anzeljg> sorry: for for = form for ^^^
+09:28:21 <aarow_laptop> yep, sounds like something it would be good to include
+09:28:57 <anitsirk> anzeljg: will need to read up on how dynamic the colors etc. would have to be. i could imagine to have them in the theme css. but that's a detail discussion for later.
+09:29:13 <anzeljg> OK
+09:29:14 <aarow_laptop> I imagine a lot of European Mahara sites will be quite happy
+09:29:17 <anzeljg> moving on?
+09:29:27 <anzeljg> :)
+09:29:58 <aarow_laptop> yep
+09:29:58 <anzeljg> 3. Social site addresses in user's profile
+09:30:08 <anzeljg> Actually the bug #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/605749 contains (in my oppinion) two separate issues.
+09:30:12 <anitsirk> #idea Social site addresses in user's profile
+09:30:25 <anzeljg> The first one is to add support for social site addresses to user's profile. My idea is to implement it in a sort of the same way that the user's emails are implemented.
+09:30:32 <anzeljg> The users will be able to add multiple addresses with a form (or maybe Pieform element) which will offer them a select/drop-down box with XY most used social websites so they will first select a social site/service and than in another textbox type/insert their personal address, e.g. http://twitter.com/johndoe or http://facebook.com/johndoe or http://en.linkedin.com/in/johndoe/
+09:30:44 <anzeljg> Second issue is on General tab. "Occupation and Industry do not make a lot of sense, especially when portfolios are used in schools for students. It would be good if the admin could change these labels for an institution."
+09:30:52 <anzeljg> The new Europass HeadlineTypeLabelType element contains one value from predefined set of values: preferred_job, job_applied_for, studies_applied_for, position or personal_statement. We could support at least that or also add our own. I'm just not sure how to do that. Any suggestions?
+09:30:53 <anzeljg> ..
+09:31:50 <aarow_laptop> yes, that Launchpad bug contains basically two separate items
+09:31:57 <aarow_laptop> Multiple sources have asked me for the ability to customize the Profile fields, I think it would make a lot of sense
+09:32:08 <anitsirk> hello dajan
+09:32:09 <anzeljg> dajan hi
+09:33:02 <dajan> hi there. Sorry for being (very) late. Was kidnapped in another conf early this morning.
+09:33:04 <aarow_laptop> I also suggested customisable profile fields to the Totara team as something they might want to implement, since they've added "custom fields" to nearly everything in Moodle
+09:33:56 <aarow_laptop> luckily, we're still going ;)
+09:34:27 <aarow_laptop> We're on item 3.3 on the agenda ( https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/29 )
+09:34:46 <anzeljg> actually 3.2.3
+09:34:47 <aarow_laptop> so anzeljg, you're mostly focused on doing the first bit of that Launchpad bug, the multiple social site addresses; rather than fully customisable profile fields
+09:34:47 <aarow_laptop> ?
+09:34:49 <tobiasz> I think there are individual profile fields in moodle (created by the site admin)
+09:35:20 <aarow_laptop> oh, right
+09:35:21 <aarow_laptop> 3.2.3
+09:35:44 <anzeljg> not sure. the social site addresses for sure...
+09:35:45 <aarow_laptop> anyway, yes, ideally most of the profile fields would be customizable. The social network fields are kind of embarrassingly out of date at this point, so even just making those more flexible would be great :)
+09:36:40 <anitsirk> #info the wishlist item for the social sites in the profile has been updated: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/605749
+09:36:40 <aarow_laptop> we'd just need to make sure to have an upgrade script that converts the old-style hard-coded ones into the new-style flexible ones
+09:36:46 <anzeljg> and the approach for adding them similarly as emails would work?
+09:37:01 <anitsirk> #info there is a new wishlist item for changes to the "General" tab at https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1258067
+09:37:02 <aarow_laptop> Well, presumably without the verification step
+09:37:33 <aarow_laptop> but in general, I think re-using the interface from the emails, would probably work
+09:37:36 <anzeljg> I menat, the users would select the site/service and enter the address :)
+09:37:47 <anitsirk> i think it would be better to just insert the username and then have the system add the rest of the url.
+09:38:18 <anzeljg> anitsirk: +1 (I wish I would think about it sooner)
+09:38:18 <aarow_laptop> well, I'm of two minds about that
+09:38:26 <anitsirk> aarow_laptop: why would we need to verify the urls / usernames?
+09:38:30 <ghada> wouldn't that make it too complicated?
+09:38:31 <aarow_laptop> on the plus side, it's perhaps an easier user experience if we just have them enter the username
+09:38:31 <dajan> Note that it is already easy to change the name of the profile field by adding a customized langpack into the local folder
+09:38:34 <anitsirk> we don't do that for the other urls that a user can insert
+09:39:06 <aarow_laptop> on the down side, if we have them just enter the username and we generate the URL, then we need to include a pre-set list of social networks and the ability to generate their URLs
+09:39:15 <anitsirk> dajan: yes, but if a user moves, they are back to the original or some other...
+09:39:36 <anitsirk> aarow_laptop: true.
+09:39:37 <aarow_laptop> or, we could include something similar to the iframe list, and let admins customize the list of social networks
+09:40:16 <anzeljg> aarow: i like your last idea
+09:40:37 <robertl_> +1 to that idea
+09:40:38 <aarow_laptop> have you actually implemented anything on this yet, anzeljg?
+09:40:46 <dajan> That's right. Then the process of doing that will imply to save the info with the name of the field into the database.
+09:40:59 <anitsirk> it would need to be exportable (like the licenses).
+09:41:00 <anzeljg> but what happens when exporting user's portfolio
+09:41:24 <anzeljg> aarow: no implementation yet, just a lot of thinking about it...
+09:41:40 <anitsirk> anzeljg: look at the license implementation. when you export a portfolio that has license information then that is retained even if the new site doesn't have that license (as far as i know).
+09:41:41 <aarow_laptop> oh, okay :)
+09:41:42 <aarow_laptop> hm, exporting...
+09:42:05 <anzeljg> anitsirk: will do
+09:42:06 <aarow_laptop> well, maybe you'd need to have an "Other" option, that lets the user supply the name of the social network and a URL
+09:42:20 <anzeljg> aarow: though of that one also :)
+09:43:28 <anzeljg> if we have that (that the users could select from list of preentered sites or add their own) then I think we don't need admin interface similar to iframes...
+09:44:00 <aarow_laptop> It does make the admin page less necessary
+09:44:05 <anzeljg> the site/service should then be written to DB along with the url
+09:44:36 <aarow_laptop> the admin page is a kind of future-proofing, in case all the devs are too lazy to keep the list up to date
+09:45:00 <anzeljg> I see :)
+09:45:18 <dajan> And why not having an interface such as the one we actually use to add files to profile's info. Therfore the user is in charge of creating what he wants in the quantity he wants. He will have a field to choose the service and another one to provide his identity. A plus sign will let him to add a new one a minus sign to delete one. When I am writing "he" I also mean "she"
+09:45:55 <anzeljg> that was initial idea (like adding emails)
+09:46:30 <anzeljg> but the problem is what if the service is not on the list...
+09:46:31 <aarow_laptop> yeah, I think for consistency across the user profile area, making it similar to the Emails interface is good
+09:47:02 <anitsirk> but without the verification step i would say.
+09:47:09 <anzeljg> of course
+09:47:32 <dajan> In your experience: do you think that admin will want to control what kind of services the users will provide info about?
+09:47:33 <ghada> will the visiblity of the individual item be granular? or are you going to make all of them visible?  I can't remember what we do with emails now...
+09:47:34 <anitsirk> but wouldn't we then have to change the existing site where you ahve the text box for entering usernames?
+09:47:38 <sonn_> +1 for emails interface
+09:47:58 <anitsirk> ghada: you can decide which item to display and which one not to
+09:47:59 <aarow_laptop> Personally, I think it would be good enough to just give users two text fields, one for the name of the social network, and the other for their URL or username
+09:48:30 <robertl_> yeah that's what I'm thinking
+09:48:33 <dajan> I agree with arron
+09:49:03 <anzeljg> so we leave it to users to enter e.g. Twitter or twitter or Facebook or facebook or FB or ...
+09:49:23 <anitsirk> then it would have to be the url i would say because users expect to get a link esp. when it's linkedin, twitter etc. they don't want to copy and paste the user name at the end of a url...
+09:49:27 <robertl_> and just store it as field1=field2 pairs
+09:49:58 <aarow_laptop> there are some antiquated social networks, such as AIM, where you don't have a URL
+09:50:30 <aarow_laptop> I guess the downside to making it freetext is that you would get irregularity in the results
+09:50:40 <anzeljg> so the description would say: "paste the URL or username"
+09:50:49 <tobiasz> what about trying to fetch the site-icon like mahara does with the allowed iframe sources, instead of a name for the network?
+09:51:10 <mingard> potential for malicious users to have links to dodgy sites? although the site icon would help with that
+09:51:27 <mingard> or do we trust our users/administrators?
+09:51:35 <anzeljg> and that again takes us to set of predefined addresses
+09:51:38 <anitsirk> mingard: they can enter these already in their blog address ;-)
+09:51:48 <mingard> haha ok
+09:52:02 <anitsirk> but of course the fields should be XSS safe
+09:52:03 <aarow_laptop> well, I guess the advantage to doing something like the iframe page, is that it provides a bit more polish and consistency to the experience. You'd have the admins enter a list of social network sites, potentially define a URL template for each one, and specify whether they want a freetext "Other" option
+09:52:31 <anzeljg> nice summary
+09:52:36 <anzeljg> +1
+09:52:45 <dajan> +1
+09:52:46 <ghada> +2
+09:52:54 <robertl_> +1
+09:52:55 <aarow_laptop> okay anzeljg, see if you can implement it that way ;)
+09:52:57 <ghada> ;)
+09:53:00 <sonn_> +1
+09:53:03 <mingard> +1
+09:53:05 <tobiasz> +1
+09:53:07 <anzeljg> i'll try
+09:53:18 <anzeljg> the last from me...
+09:53:24 <dajan> @anzeljg: More work for you my friend
+09:53:30 <anzeljg> 4. Adding functionality to place comment/feedback on each individual block on a page
+09:53:40 <anzeljg> I was informed that is would be really helpful if users could place comments/feedback on each individual block on page. Sort od like Facebook works (also likes of each individual block would be nice...). I'm just raising that issue here to get your oppinion on that and if there are some plans to implement that...
+09:53:47 <anitsirk> #idea for implementing more flexibility for adding (new) social sites: the advantage to doing something like the iframe page, is that it provides a bit more polish and consistency to the experience. You'd have the admins enter a list of social network sites, potentially define a URL template for each one, and specify whether they want a freetext "Other" option
+09:53:53 <anzeljg> ..
+09:54:04 <anitsirk> #idea
+09:54:08 <anitsirk> #idea Adding functionality to place comment/feedback on each individual block on a page
+09:54:21 <anitsirk> anzeljg: did you have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1037531 ?
+09:54:22 <aarow_laptop> We at Catalyst don't have any plans to implement that just now. Though we did recently implement something that sounds similar but is not ;)
+09:54:32 <robertl_> would all blocks need to have feedback?
+09:54:38 <anitsirk> we've been discussing this a bit on the wishlist item
+09:54:39 <aarow_laptop> robertl implemented a "comment block", which lets you change the location of the comments from the bottom of the page, to a Block on the page
+09:54:51 <anzeljg> anitsirk: honestly I didn't...
+09:55:11 <anitsirk> aarow_laptop: but that is the page feedback and not individual block feedback.
+09:55:42 <aarow_laptop> yep
+09:55:43 <aarow_laptop> that's why I said it sounds similar but is not actually similar ;)
+09:55:53 <anitsirk> many blocks in mahara can already have comments, but that takes you to the details page and there is not always a comment count when you view the portfolio page.
+09:55:56 <anzeljg> robertl_ yes. it's not enough to just display comments in a block rather than at the end of page
+09:56:28 <aarow_laptop> I guess another thing to note in this discussion, which we're probably already aware of, is that File artefacts already can have their own comments
+09:56:41 <anzeljg> it would be nice that the comments could be expanded/viewed under each block
+09:56:50 <anitsirk> btw, the comment block aarow_laptop was talking about will be in 1.9. it's a feature sponsored by the new york institute of technology.
+09:57:06 <dajan> In my experience of assessing ePortfolios and portfolios, we give feedback on the whole page or document, not block by block. And already we can give comments on the artefacts.
+09:57:06 <aarow_laptop> so in the case of a File Block, you'd probably want to display the comment thread for that File artefact
+09:57:27 <anzeljg> yes
+09:58:01 <anzeljg> dajan: actually I haven't assessed portfolios, that was a suggestion made by others...
+09:58:03 <robertl_> for a folder block would you show all  comments for all the files
+09:58:08 <robertl_> ?
+09:58:38 <anzeljg> robertl_ Have no idea, that's why I've started that conversation anyway... :)
+09:58:39 <aarow_laptop> well, that's where it gets tricky
+09:58:39 <aarow_laptop> there is not a 1:1 relationship between blocks and artefacts
+09:59:00 <anitsirk> we'd have to look at each block type and see where comments would make sense. some internal ones may not be so well suited, but external blocks should have comments. sometimes you may want to comment on an embedded video.
+09:59:01 <aarow_laptop> in fact, very few blocks do represent one artefact. I think the File Block is more an exception than the rule
+09:59:18 <sonn_> What will happen to comments of shared text box?
+09:59:50 <aarow_laptop> I think from an implementation standpoint, it would also require some DB changes to let comments "belong" to a block
+09:59:51 <mingard> might be confusing for users to have comments on some blocks and not others (not knowing how it works behind the scenes)
+10:00:00 <anzeljg> yes, yes and yes. Will try to explain that to people that suggested that.
+10:00:07 <anitsirk> sonn_: i think they should be seen by anyone viewing the text box like for journal entries. i don't know of the top of my head if that is not already the case.
+10:00:08 <robertl_> and comments with attachments
+10:00:17 <robertl_> that can have comments
+10:00:18 <anzeljg> And personally I agree that comments on the end of page should be enough
+10:00:34 <anzeljg> :)
+10:00:57 <anitsirk> anzeljg: take a look at the wishlist item. gordon and don had some good thoughts. would be great if you added yours / the ones of your users to that to continue the discussion.
+10:00:57 <aarow_laptop> well, a Text Box is one of the block types where the block represents one Artefact
+10:00:59 <ghada> I agree. Otherwise, it's too cluttered
+10:01:32 <anzeljg> anitsirk: will do (the bug you've mentioned earlier?)
+10:02:03 <aarow_laptop> I think what anitsirk said about looking at it separately for each block type would be the way to go. If we added this feature, it would need to be something that would be optionally turned on for each block type. Like, adding a "supports_comments()" method to the Blocktype class, which returns false by default
+10:02:18 <anitsirk> i think it is good to be able to comment on individual artefacts. some users have 100 different ones on a page and then the feedback at the bottom is not enough esp. when we don't have a history of a page revision. but it's not good that the comments are often not visible, i.e. often you don't know that an artefact has a commen unless you really click on it.
+10:02:25 <anitsirk> anzeljg: yep: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1037531
+10:02:32 <dajan> I just want to give you an insight on how we do to assess portfolios in Mahara or within other platforms (sorry but sometimes I have to be a cheater). First we give feedback on artefacts when we help the users to build their portfolio. We help them to link their artefacts with skills using the tags function. These comments are general and help the users to build something coherent and personal. Then when the pages are shared we assess or comment on how the
+10:02:33 <dajan> users explain the achievement of the LO (Learning Outcomes) or how they have shown the attainment of the goals, the acquisition of skills.
+10:03:04 <aarow_laptop> and it would need to be configurable in each block instance, like how we let users disable comments for each Page and artefact
+10:03:52 <sonn_> I am off now, will see the minute tomorrow. My son needs me
+10:04:23 <aarow_laptop> see you tomorrow, sonn_
+10:04:30 <anitsirk> bye, sonn_
+10:04:32 <sonn_> bye
+10:04:36 <anzeljg> dajan: I've programmed a custom plugin for that, called "My Learnigs" or Learnings where users set their goals, reflect upon Learnign Outcomes, etc. It was in part intended for EUfolio project (http://eufolio.eu)
+10:04:36 <robertl_> see ya sonn_
+10:04:41 <dajan> see you sonn
+10:04:45 <mingard> bye sonn_
+10:04:58 <aarow_laptop> you know, maybe a way to expose the comment threads of individual artefacts, from, say, the "Files to Download" block, would be handy
+10:05:05 <anzeljg> bye sonn
+10:05:37 <aarow_laptop> a little speech bubble icon that indicates it has 3 comments, and you click on it and it expands into a comments thread...
+10:06:12 <robertl_> yeah - having them hidden first thenshowing them if needed would be the way to go
+10:06:13 <anzeljg> aarow: like the idea
+10:06:53 <dajan> Yes, but the comments you make on an artefact are often non relevant when the latter is put into a context of a page.
+10:07:05 <anitsirk> aarow_laptop: like this: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/112828955/artefact_feedback.png ?
+10:07:16 <anitsirk> pardon my bad mock-ups. evonne makes much nicer ones. ;-)
+10:07:17 <aarow_laptop> ah, that's true in the case you've described, dajan
+10:07:48 <aarow_laptop> and also considering that artefacts can be used across multiple pages
+10:08:08 <anitsirk> dajan: but that shouldn't mean that it should be burried i think. it can reveal the initial thinking and also show progress / or not progression that the learner has taken
+10:08:08 <aarow_laptop> I'm sure that if you could look at the artefact comment thread from within the page, users would make page-specific comments, which would then show up on another page and make no sense
+10:08:08 <dajan> It is what I meant by "context"
+10:08:09 <robertl_> also would need to take into account space on page - if you had 5 cols it might be hard to read comments
+10:09:02 <robertl_> if they were all squished up
+10:09:06 <dajan> In that case comments have to be put into popups
+10:09:38 <aarow_laptop> anitsirk: Yes, if we were to have expandable comment subthreads, I'd envision them looking something like your mockup
+10:09:38 <aarow_laptop> Moodle 2 actually hase some quite nice comment popups :)
+10:10:10 <aarow_laptop> and a really keen API that makes it easy to add a comment thread to anything
+10:10:34 <anitsirk> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1037531 for additional information from other users for comment / feedback improvements
+10:10:34 <aarow_laptop> don't know how well it would integrate with our current system of storing comments as Artefacts ...
+10:10:35 <aarow_laptop> maybe just the Javascript part of it
+10:10:36 <dajan> If we implement this, I think that tutors will want to provide general feedbacks on artefacts which are relevant in the whole portfolios and specific and contextualized feedbacks on the artifact on a specific page. Not easy to code this.
+10:11:08 <aarow_laptop> yes
+10:11:08 <aarow_laptop> for purposes of context, tying comment threads to Blocks actually does make more sense
+10:11:40 <aarow_laptop> a Block only lives in exactly one page
+10:12:11 <aarow_laptop> although the current system of just having one comment thread per page also helps to fix the context ;)
+10:12:27 <anitsirk> aarow_laptop: not when it's a text box that can be re-used or a journal entry etc. unless you argue that it's a separate block because it can have a different heading and is in a different page.
+10:12:58 <aarow_laptop> Yes, a Text Box Block is only on one page. But it displays a Note artefact, which can be displayed in several Text Box blocks
+10:13:29 <aarow_laptop> Blog entries are trickier...
+10:14:01 <aarow_laptop> Well, any further thoughts on this subject?
+10:14:30 <anitsirk> not at the moment.
+10:14:45 <anzeljg> no
+10:14:55 <dajan> I think you should discuss with tutors and people who assess ePortfolio with Mahara to see what they really need there.
+10:15:04 <mingard> agreed, sounds like it needs more thought generally
+10:15:20 <ghada> agreed.
+10:15:31 <dajan> I can make a little survey here in UK France and Switzerland if you want
+10:15:56 <anzeljg> can you send me the survey question to pass it to my users dajan?
+10:16:08 <anitsirk> dajan: would be good to post them on the forums as well
+10:16:20 <dajan> I was more thinking about a focus group (online or f2f).
+10:16:20 <aarow_laptop> I'll note that in the minutes then, shall I?
+10:17:22 <aarow_laptop> #action dajan to gather some information from tutors and ePortfolio assessors to find out their needs in this area
+10:17:31 <dajan> What is the deadline because we are arriving in a period of calm wit Xmas
+10:18:03 <aarow_laptop> Well, the 1.9 feature freeze is in February
+10:18:21 <anitsirk> first week of feb
+10:18:21 <aarow_laptop> so if anzeljg wanted to get something in for 1.9, it'd need to be before then
+10:18:34 <dajan> Short
+10:19:06 <anitsirk> #info robertl updated the release schedule at https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/6MonthlyCycle
+10:19:10 <dajan> I will do my best for Januray
+10:19:13 <anzeljg> aarow: noted that. this will be busy Xmas holidays...
+10:19:29 <anitsirk> there is always the october release. :-)
+10:19:36 <anzeljg> he he he...
+10:20:08 <aarow_laptop> Yes, there's always 1.10
+10:20:23 <anzeljg> I though it will be 2.0 ;)
+10:20:23 <aarow_laptop> okay, anything else on this topic?
+10:20:28 <anitsirk> nope
+10:20:34 <anzeljg> not from me
+10:20:34 <aarow_laptop> We can discuss that at the next meeting ;)
+10:21:06 <aarow_laptop> so that brings us to...
+10:21:06 <aarow_laptop> #topic Next meeting & chair
+10:21:07 <aarow_laptop> When shall we hold the next meeting?
+10:21:25 <anzeljg> I think in January, before feature freeze
+10:21:41 <robertl_> mid/late jan sounds good
+10:21:57 <mingard> sounds good to me
+10:21:58 <aarow_laptop> Jan 12?
+10:22:03 <anzeljg> later
+10:22:13 <anitsirk> aarow_laptop: sunday?
+10:22:13 <aarow_laptop> or is the 19th better?
+10:22:26 <anitsirk> aarow_laptop: why are you going for sundays?
+10:22:48 <anzeljg> 16th or 23rd?
+10:22:49 <aarow_laptop> Sorry, my calendar keeps closing
+10:22:49 <aarow_laptop> I was looking at December by accident
+10:22:50 <aarow_laptop> 23rd? That's a Thursday
+10:22:56 <dajan> In France they want to put into the Law the right to make people work on Sunday
+10:23:03 <anitsirk> ah that explains it. :-)
+10:23:19 <anzeljg> well today is thursday also :)
+10:23:33 <anitsirk> aarow_laptop: i think we have a question at hand from dobedobedoh.
+10:23:34 <anzeljg> 22nd then?
+10:24:01 <anitsirk> if we stick to our early nz / utc time, then perth can't participate in january because that'll be at an ungodly hour as it might be 8 a.m. NZ time
+10:24:29 <dajan> Wednesdays are always busy but deepening on the time I would maybe show up during the meeting
+10:24:29 <aarow_laptop> right
+10:24:57 <anzeljg> 21 UTC?
+10:25:10 <anitsirk> dajan: this time it would be our turn for early morning which would be evening for you unless we find a better time to accommodate dobedobedoh
+10:25:31 <dajan> Fine by me.
+10:25:42 <dajan> I will bring your the croissants
+10:25:56 <anzeljg> and french toast?
+10:26:05 <anzeljg> :)
+10:26:28 <dajan> I don't think so, I am Brit and Swiss. Not French. But for you I will and add some marmelade
+10:26:50 <anzeljg> ;)
+10:26:50 <aarow_laptop> I think we'd need to do 23:00 or 0:00 to accommodate Perth
+10:26:52 <dajan> And a bircher muesli
+10:27:05 <rkabalin> heh, or Marmite
+10:27:06 <aarow_laptop> but that would make it midnight in Europe
+10:27:21 <anzeljg> that's quite late :(
+10:27:45 <dajan> Fine by me. I don't go to bed before one or two. And once in the month that's ok
+10:27:57 <rkabalin> 21 UTC fine with me
+10:28:29 <aarow_laptop> Why does Moodle HQ have to be in *Western* Australia :-P
+10:28:32 <anzeljg> Is UTC 21 equal to 22:00 in Europe or 23:00?
+10:28:41 <anitsirk> 22:00
+10:29:01 <anzeljg> thanks, that's what I thought
+10:29:02 <anitsirk> at the moment i think because you are on winter time
+10:29:10 <anzeljg> yep
+10:29:43 <anitsirk> right now is 10:30 UTC, but 11:30 p.m. NZ and 11:40 a.m. continental europe
+10:29:53 <anitsirk> or rather 11:30 a.m. ;-)
+10:30:08 <dajan> So I have to leave you now I have another webminar with ALT on ePortfolio. Must go.
+10:30:15 <anzeljg> I might come if we start at 23:00, starting at 0:00 is a bit late for me...
+10:30:17 <anitsirk> bye dajan
+10:30:20 <dajan> Will rea the chat notes tomorrow
+10:30:24 <anzeljg> bye dajan
+10:30:26 <dajan> bye
+10:31:01 <ghada> I have to head out too. see you online...
+10:31:12 <anitsirk> have a nice evening, ghada
+10:31:13 <aarow_laptop> Since Perth is UTC+8, it's not possible to accommodate a sensible Perth morning time and a sensible European evening time
+10:31:16 <robertl_> see ya ghada
+10:31:20 <ghada> thanks for including me!
+10:31:21 <aarow_laptop> See you guys. We'll post the next dev meeting time on the forums
+10:31:29 <ghada> bye...
+10:31:42 <anzeljg> what if we do it again Perth evening / Europe morning?
+10:31:43 <aarow_laptop> thanks for showing up
+10:31:55 <aarow_laptop> we could do that
+10:32:25 <anitsirk> fine by me. we used to alternate so that everyone had a very early morning, but right now, we aren't on such an early morning for you in europe, are we?
+10:32:25 <aarow_laptop> if we're trying to include people in NZ, Australi, and Europe, sticking with this time makes the most sense
+10:32:57 <aarow_laptop> so long as no one from the US wants to join us... ;)
+10:32:58 <anzeljg> at 9 a.m. in Europe, so it's fine
+10:33:30 <tobiasz> same here, 9 am is very convenient
+10:33:31 <aarow_laptop> okay, so 23 Jan 8:00 UTC
+10:33:40 <anzeljg> +1
+10:33:45 <mingard> +1
+10:33:49 <anitsirk> +1
+10:33:51 <tobiasz> +1
+10:34:00 <robertl_> +1
+10:34:24 <anitsirk> who wants to chair?
+10:34:38 <anzeljg> I can
+10:34:45 <anitsirk> cool. thanks, anzeljg
+10:35:07 <anitsirk> for those new here: we try to rotate the chair every time. that also helps everyone to learn the commands for writing the minutes :-)
+10:35:08 <aarow_laptop> sounds good
+10:35:12 <rkabalin> +1
+10:35:31 <mingard> cool, +1
+10:35:32 <aarow_laptop> ooh, this'll be the historic 30th dev meeting
+10:35:42 <anzeljg> even nicer...
+10:36:13 <anitsirk> #info anzeljg will chair the 40th Mahara developer meeting on 23 January at 8:00 UTC. See http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=30th+Mahara+dev+meeting&iso=20130123T08 for the time zone conversion
+10:36:24 <anitsirk> oh shoot. i meant to write 30th
+10:36:30 <anzeljg> wasn't it 30th a second ago?
+10:36:32 <anitsirk> sorry for getting my numbers mixed up today
+10:36:40 <anzeljg> undo
+10:37:01 <anitsirk> aarow_laptop: can you please try to undo? only the chair can, but i don't know if it works for info
+10:37:31 <anitsirk> #info corrected: anzeljg will chair the 30th Mahara developer meeting on 23 January at 8:00 UTC. See http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=30th+Mahara+dev+meeting&iso=20130123T08 for the time zone conversion
+10:37:32 <aarow_laptop> #undo
+10:37:32 <maharameet> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x2c55210>
+10:38:03 <aarow_laptop> And lastly, any other business?
+10:38:17 <anitsirk> yes. 1 short one
+10:38:28 <anzeljg> aarow: I think you've undone the corrected info
+10:40:01 <aarow_laptop> well, it's not a huge typo
+10:40:20 <anzeljg> :)
+10:40:24 <anzeljg> anitsirk: go on
+10:40:28 <anitsirk> #info the deadline for the next mahara newsletter will be 24 december 2013. if you have an article to include, please send the 100-150 words to newsletter@mahara.org
+10:40:38 <anitsirk> that's all.
+10:41:04 <anzeljg> anitsirk: i see you'll also have busy xmas holidays...
+10:41:11 <anitsirk> ;-)
+10:41:51 <anitsirk> anybody else?
+10:41:57 <anzeljg> nope
+10:42:00 <robertl_> nothing from me
+10:42:00 <anitsirk> as in "any other business"?
+10:42:26 <mingard> nor from me
+10:42:57 <aarow_laptop> okay, adjourning this meeting then
+10:43:29 <aarow_laptop> If anyone has any other business you've forgotten, as always feel free to post it on the forums, bring it up here on IRC, and/or put it on the agenda for the next meeting. :)
+10:43:29 <aarow_laptop> #endmeeting
+ diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-12-05-08.01.log.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-12-05-08.01.log.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..52408abf4095d852da33e056f1f18627c764a4d4 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-12-05-08.01.log.txt @@ -0,0 +1,641 @@ +08:01:09 #startmeeting +08:01:09 Meeting started Thu Dec 5 08:01:09 2013 UTC. The chair is aarow_laptop. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. +08:01:09 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. +08:02:21 I'd like to start the meeting as we always do by asking everyone to introduce themselves, preceeding it with #info so it'll show up in the minutes +08:02:26 #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:02:33 #info dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols, Moodle Pty Ltd, Perth, Australia. +08:02:35 #info sonn_ is Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Welllington, NZ +08:02:40 #info anzeljg is Gregor Anželj, developer and translator, Ljubljana, Slovenia +08:02:50 #info aarow_laptop is Aaron Wells, Catalyst IT in Wellington +08:02:53 #info mingard is Jono Mingard, newly of Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:03:23 #info robertl_ is Robert Lyon, developer, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:03:29 Hi ghada, we were just doing introductions. Please introduce yourself, preceeding it with #info so you'll show up in the auto-generated minutes +08:03:53 #info #me is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany +08:04:01 #info /me is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany +08:04:15 #info ghada is Ghada El-Zoghbi, developer, Catalyst IT, Sydney, Aus +08:04:18 #info tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany +08:04:29 tobiasz: what is the KIT? Karlsruhe Institute of Technology? +08:04:47 yep +08:04:49 whoops, I got disconnected for a few seconds there +08:04:50 For those interested, the live minutes are at http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-12-05-08.01.log.txt (if you want to find out who people are and missed it) +08:05:09 just what I needed :) +08:05:55 Well, is that everyone who's actually present and not just leaving their IRC signed in 24/7? ;) +08:06:09 aarow_laptop: i think so +08:06:18 okay, then +08:06:28 #topic Items from last meeting: The "Choose a skin" contest +08:07:07 anitsirk, I think you ran the contest, do you have want to say anything about it? +08:07:31 ehm. nope. not much. don't know why you put it on the agenda. ;-) just a few words then I guess: +08:07:59 I think at the last meeting (two months ago) it was still a proposal, and it got bumped to "discuss at next meeting" +08:08:28 It was the first time that we ran a competition that robertl_ and aarow_laptop had come up with. it was great because we got some people to submit skins using anzeljg's new feature. +08:08:37 the contest did help find a bug or two in skins so that was useful +08:08:51 it was great to see what users had come up with and also see the power of the skins and that you can create some pretty cool stuff. +08:09:21 and was good to see how mahara folks would use it +08:09:25 and it showed us that we didn't have a very convenient central place for people to share skins +08:09:38 the hidden goal was to get users to test the feature, but it was also good to garner interest in this feature. +08:09:50 the main "complaint" when creating skins was to add support for choosing menu colors +08:10:08 anzeljg: which menus? +08:10:18 which are shown on page +08:10:22 the topnav you mean? +08:10:25 yep +08:10:29 oh, right +08:11:05 #info The contest was a success at locating bugs during the RC stage, and raising interest in skins +08:11:30 #info One reported oversight is the inability to set the color of the topnav +08:12:05 Oh yeah, we wound up turning on the ability to attach XML files to wiki.mahara.org, and I think that's where we're telling people to post skins they want to share +08:12:18 wasn't it zip files? +08:12:37 maybe it was zip files +08:12:42 https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Page_skins +08:12:57 many people have also just hosted them as files in their mahara.org accounts +08:13:00 afaik we turned on zip files and pdfs +08:13:09 #info we've set up a skins sharing page on the wiki: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Page_skins +08:13:33 okay, if there's nothing else about skins, we'll move on to the next topic +08:14:06 oops. and there we lost him again. +08:14:15 whoops, disconnected again +08:14:21 I seem to be having some technical issues tonight +08:14:52 #topic Dropping support for MySQL 5.1, as of Mahara 1.9 +08:15:44 I want to drop support for MySQL 5.1 in the next release, since 5.5 has been out for 4 years now, and our devs aren't actively testing on 5.1 anymore anyway +08:15:52 with the increased reliance on triggers / procedures mysql 5.1 isn't going to cut it +08:16:11 does it have different trigger & procedure syntax? +08:16:15 Also, support for 5.1 (Oracle) has stopped. +08:16:37 It has different permisisons. +08:16:53 so hopefully potential clients will no longer be running 5.1? +08:16:58 What's the version bundled in major distros? +08:17:01 It's been "streamlined" and a new permission has been added just for triggers. +08:17:18 not sure... +08:17:20 debian & Ubuntu come with 5.5 I believe +08:17:30 ubuntu 12.04+ come with 5.5 +08:17:33 Wheezy = 5.5 +08:17:44 We can't drop support if major distros are still using 5.1 IMHO +08:17:46 that sounds right. Three months ago I installed Ubuntu and it's 5.5 +08:17:49 So DeadRat? +08:17:59 http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/mysql-server +08:18:31 CentOS seems to still bundle 5.1 +08:18:55 but we don't officially support centos +08:18:57 http://mirror.centos.org/centos/6/os/x86_64/Packages/ +08:19:04 We don't officially support any OS do we? +08:19:29 the mahara registration information isn't helpful at all. for postgres it says "postgres7" though i'm running 9.1 if i'm not mistaken. +08:19:58 https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/System_Administrator%27s_Guide/Requirements +08:20:03 whoops, disconnected again +08:20:16 says we officially support debian and ubuntu +08:20:21 Hm, when did that come in?!? +08:20:23 aarow_laptop: are you using the web client? +08:20:32 no, I'm using xchat. maybe I should switch, though +08:20:43 robertl_: but we don't do debian packages at the moment. +08:21:05 well, our support in that sense means that we will actively work to make it run on Debian +08:21:14 albeit now, by manually installing it +08:21:18 whishlist: centos would be nice... +08:21:20 right +08:21:45 I go for CentOS +08:21:54 Personally, I'm a Debian user, but I think we should consider the CentOS users too. +08:22:17 hm, it's an interesting point +08:22:18 can we leave that discussion to another topic / time and focus on mysql, please? ;-) +08:22:33 anitsirk: They're intrinsically linked. +08:22:36 according to the wiki we support ubuntu 10.04, which doesn't have mysql 5.5 afaik - that would need to be updated if we switch +08:22:44 Ditto for Lenny +08:23:06 okay, let's do this +08:23:17 take a look at the major distros & their versions +08:23:23 and see what MySQL versions they support +08:23:29 is there any (statistical) data about the systems people are installing mahara on? +08:23:50 Might be wise to sk Partners too aarow_laptop +08:23:52 Let me check the "phone home" data +08:24:21 aarow_laptop: it's not useful for postgres as it only says postgres7. doubt it's acurate for mysql. +08:25:41 another way to look at it, though, is that the "supported systems" is also a reflection of which systems are we actually testing it on +08:26:19 and in point of fact, at Catalyst NZ these days we're just testing it on Ubuntu with Postgres 9 & MySQL 5.5 +08:26:42 Same in Catalyst, Australia +08:26:50 the devs certainly are +08:27:05 I think if we got some automated testing set up, then it would be more feasible to run those automated tests on other distro's +08:27:08 the testers branch out a bit more with OS / devices +08:27:22 We'd need to write some phpunit tests... +08:28:03 okay, so I think we can summarize this topic +08:28:27 We should get a look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1 +08:28:46 and... well, I guess that's the main action item +08:29:01 #action We should get a look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1 +08:29:06 thanks anitsirk +08:29:17 now we just need someone to attach to the action item :-) +08:29:24 aarow_laptop_: you'll need to rename to attach items ;) +08:29:31 oh +08:31:11 #action also, note that if we can specify 5.1.6 at least, we'll make things easier for ourselves +08:31:28 Okay, next topic +08:31:36 #topic Plans & priorities for Mahara 1.9 +08:31:38 aarow_laptop: wait +08:31:50 who is going to find out? +08:31:55 oh :) +08:32:13 I will do +08:32:18 thanks sonn_ +08:32:47 #action sonn_ will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1. +08:33:10 so, moving on the +08:33:18 #topic Plans & priorities for Mahara 1.9 +08:33:47 #info It's not looking to be as big and exciting of a release as 1.8 +08:33:53 there must be something in the nz air. i got dropped off the channel as well. :-( +08:34:36 #info We've got mingard working on accessibility +08:35:29 #info And I'd really like to upstream the improvements to sent messages and notifications being developed by tobiasz +08:35:30 seems to me that we can get A level accessibility quite easily, possibly AA as well before release +08:35:41 but I need to do more research into exactly what will be involved +08:35:45 good to hear +08:35:54 The text editor will get in your way there +08:36:27 tinyMCE? +08:36:29 TinyMCE is non-compliant +08:36:37 We're going through that atm +08:36:45 at Moodle? +08:36:48 Yup +08:37:07 We're looking at replacing TinyMCE 3.5; 4.X is better, but still not great +08:37:18 might work just having an option to turn it off +08:37:27 but I'm not sure where that should go +08:37:34 mingard and our accessibility expert are working on reviewing mahara for accessibility issues so that we can get a good overview of where work would be necessary. we'll then have a good picture of the pain areas and those that could be fixed more easily. we may not be able to address all issues at once, but at least we'll know where work would be needed. ideally, we'll also get some funding for improving the accessibility. if anyone knows of +08:37:48 possibility to tap into, please let us know. +08:38:37 mingard: Well, we could add a "screenreader compatibility" setting to the account settings +08:38:47 mingard: you can already do that at the moment under user settings :-) +08:38:55 oh, that too +08:39:01 you can actually turn off the wysiwyg editor +08:39:10 ok, I'll look into it +08:39:21 maybe just some more explanation that screen reader users should do this +08:39:34 i thought that's what moodle was doing as well. +08:39:48 also note so far we've only really looked at viewing things (not editing) so edit functionality may need a lot more work +08:40:00 perhaps if we wind up with a list of things like that, we could put together a page in the Mahara manual or something, about how to optimize your Mahara experience for accessibility +08:40:19 yes :) +08:40:28 good idea, I'll bear it in mind +08:40:32 We're trying to make everything ARIA compliant, everywhere with a view to dropping the screenreader setting +08:40:53 So that there's only one interface, and it's an accessible one. +08:41:04 we were definitely planning on creating bugs for the issues and also having some information on the wiki in regards to overall accessibility because we've been asked this question in the past / recently. +08:41:30 dobedobedoh: that's a great approach. +08:42:13 agreed, ideally we'll also use it +08:42:42 well, shall we move on to the next bit? +08:43:26 so, there was accessibility +08:43:35 any action required? +08:43:55 Well, mingard's already working on accessibility +08:44:07 so no further action I think :) +08:44:31 ok, shall I update at the next meeting +08:44:33 ? +08:44:54 The next thing in our 1.9 plans, was to get in the improvements to the "sent messages" and inbox +08:45:13 which I believe both tobiasz and another developer on the forum are both working on different versions of +08:45:18 auto testing? +08:45:27 mingard: good idea. +08:46:02 tobiasz, I've been meaning to look at your patch, I'll try to get to that asap +08:47:36 I also put "automated testing" on the agenda, but that's more of a wishlist item than a likelihood. However, the folks at Totara seem to finally be starting on their Mahara-related project, and they're pretty big on automated testing, so I'm hoping we can get them to do some work towards writing some tests for Mahara +08:48:18 or at least settle on a good test framework that we can use +08:48:21 aarow_laptop: ok, I'll wait for your comments. It's programmed as a pure plugin so far but we can integrate it into the core. Just wanted to see what you (all) think about the implementation, first +08:48:42 #info Automated test, would be great, but outlook uncertain at the moment +08:48:56 Okay, next item +08:49:04 #topic: Features funded by Arnes which could go into 1.9 +08:49:09 We already have a test framewrok +08:49:11 anzeljg? +08:49:14 tobiasz: we were thinking of going over the discussion you had with angela again and see if maybe a combo of your work would be a good idea as she also had good points. +08:49:15 But no-one has ever written any tests for it +08:49:41 It seems that two parallel conversations are going on. +08:49:48 dobedobedoh: yep, the framework isn't so much the problem, it's the tests +08:49:49 Shall I wait for couple of minutes? +08:49:55 yeah. we aren't quite finished with the previous topic. ;-) +08:49:59 oh, sorry +08:50:04 I think I may have had some lag there +08:50:04 Please undo ;) +08:50:08 #undo +08:50:08 Removing item from minutes: +08:50:45 As I say, we already have phpunit implemented. It's Mjollnir`'s code which I sponsored and had integrated +08:50:58 Unfortunately I then changed employ and haven't done as much mahara dev since and no-one else has written any tests either +08:51:08 but the basis is there +08:51:30 does totara also use phpunit? +08:51:35 Moodle does +08:51:41 And since Totara == Moodle +08:52:56 I'm actually more interested in setting it up to some behat testing, front-end stuff +08:53:05 which Moodle also does these days +08:53:11 Indeed so +08:54:01 that's where we got the idea from ;-) +08:54:03 we've even had some training with the Catalyst QA team to prepare them to write gherkin tests (for Moodle) +08:56:14 #info extending mahara with tests (unit tests but also behat) is high on the wishlist as it would facilitate regression testing, compatibility of new code etc. +08:57:35 okay, next topic? +08:57:36 and compatibility of 3rd party plugins. I'd highly appreciate the tests +08:59:20 #topic Features funded by Arnes which could go into 1.9 +09:00:05 anzeljg? +09:00:06 The first three will be funded by Arnes, about hte last the conversation is still going on... +09:00:14 1. Dinamical "Progress bar" based on Institution selected preferences +09:00:15 oh, sorry +09:00:26 The idea is to take my "Progress bar" plugin, which has static set of artefacts that it observes and based on those artefacts it alculates the Profile completeness. The plugin could be extended in a way to implement page/dashboard for institution admins which would list all available artefacts and the admins would select which artefacts should count towards Profile completeness for their institution. Would it also be a good idea to +09:00:45 of those artefacts? To explain a little bit: select/drop-down box with options from 0 to e.g. 5 where that number would mean the occurance of each artefact type (0 = artefact does not count toward Profile completeness, 5 = 5 artefacts of that type count toward Profile completeness but user could also add less than 5 artefacts) +09:00:53 .. +09:01:19 Sorry, I meant do anyone has comments before I move on to number2 ? +09:01:37 I like the idea of a profile progress bar :) +09:02:24 anzeljg: do you have a screenshot or reference site? i remember having it seen somewhere. +09:02:40 I'll try to find it... +09:02:48 me too - it gives new users a task to complete +09:02:52 i also like the idea of an admin (institution admin?) being able to select which items count towards completeness. +09:03:01 so do I. Not sure how sophisticated the config needs to be (would be quite nice to have a number input ...) +09:03:33 #idea The idea is to take anzeljg's "Progress bar" plugin, which has static set of artefacts that it observes and based on those artefacts it alculates the Profile completeness. The plugin could be extended in a way to implement page/dashboard for institution admins which would list all available artefacts and the admins would select which artefacts should count towards Profile completeness for their institution. +09:04:40 anitsirk: the article was published in las newsletter, but the link https://mahara.org/newsletter doesn't work +09:05:02 anzeljg: it does work for me. +09:05:23 strange... anyway there should be a screenshot +09:05:25 sorry that i forgot that it was in the newsletter +09:05:34 and yes, there is a screenshot. +09:05:43 :) +09:06:00 yep, I see, looks good from the screenshot at least +09:06:35 so when task are completed do they disappear from list? +09:06:44 when it's completed maybe we could discuss implementing it into core, if you wish? +09:06:49 robertl_: yes +09:06:56 cool +09:07:12 would that require that the dashboard is made more flexible, i.e. the admin can decide which blocks to place on the dashboard? +09:07:46 Indeed, it seems like this is a feature that would make the most sense if an admin could have it automatically show up in the default dashboard +09:07:53 i'm not sure. currently i've made it so that for existing and new users the block is added to position 0 at right column... +09:08:02 #info the proof-of-concept around the progress bar plugin and a screenshot can be seen in the Mahara Newsletter, October 2013 https://mahara.org/view/artefact.php?artefact=292431&view=36871 +09:08:28 but it would only make sense to have if the admin configured some sort of completion. +09:08:31 aarow: yes it shows at default dashboard, for current and new users +09:08:48 anitsirk: wha do you mean? +09:09:07 and the user can remove it from their dashboard if they wish? +09:09:24 ghada: haven't tested that - i think so +09:09:25 if an admin doesn't want to have a progress bar show up on the dashboard, it should not be placed there by default for existing and new users. +09:09:35 removing it should also be possible like for every other block. +09:09:36 anitsirk: i see +09:10:17 I see, the block has a postinst() method which adds it to all the existing dashboards, and to the default dashboard template +09:10:33 is it listed in the blocks menu? how does the user get it back if they remove it by accident? +09:10:41 anitsirk: so there should be a setting in plugin settings to allow admin to swithc plugin on/off? +09:10:54 i thought that turning the plugin off is enough +09:11:02 Yeah, that would do it +09:11:27 mingard: Yes, the block is set so that a user could re-add it to their Dashboard page if they remove it +09:11:40 ok, just checking +09:11:58 so, not like the homeinfo? +09:12:04 then i think there should be some sort of help before turning it on though esp. when it places a new block on a person's dashboard. normally, we do not touch existing pages and add things or change things as users can customize them to their liking. +09:12:16 true +09:12:20 ghada: homeinfo is different from blocks. +09:12:33 well, we'll need to give some thought to the automated placement thing when upstreaming it +09:12:40 agree +09:12:41 homeinfo is a template that the admin controls whereas the rest of the dashboard blocks is user controlled though we have default blocks there. +09:12:47 yes, but the mechanism to switch it off is in the user settings also. +09:12:54 I think the most logical thing (and kind of a missing bit of Mahara functionality anyway) would be to let admins configure the default Dashboard page +09:13:15 +1. but that would need to be done on institution level +09:13:15 currently you can do that with a hack, by logging in as the root user +09:13:38 that is the hack, i've used :) +09:14:10 ghada: Yeah, homeinfo is not actually a block. Although it could make sense to display the profile progress in a similar, non-Block fashion +09:14:10 on the other hand, we've already got it fully implemented as a Block :) +09:14:44 but configuring the dashboard page doesn't help when you introduce the plugin into a running system/with existing user accounts +09:15:16 correct, changes to the default dashboard would only affect new users +09:16:02 there's no way to have some sort of installation wizard for the plugin with an option to update existing users' dashboards? +09:16:34 #idea Add an interface for site & instititution admins to customize the default dashboard page +09:16:39 that's why the plugin currently updates the default dashboard (for new future users) and also dashboards of every exisitng user +09:16:42 that would be some might sql wranglings... +09:16:43 #idea Put the profile progress into a non-Block similar to homeinfo +09:17:00 mingard: normally, we don't touch users' existing pages as they could have highly customized them. +09:17:31 actually it wouldn't be too hard for admins to customize the default dashboard page +09:18:00 I see. having it set up like homeinfo makes sense to me, it's not the sort of thing you would want to add to multiple pages for example +09:18:01 it's stored as a normal page in the DB +09:18:01 it just belongs to the usually inacessible "root" user 0 +09:18:02 if you give the "root" user a password, you can log in as them and edit it already +09:19:04 okay, well, not to shut down the discussion, but we are running a bit late, so I suggest we move on to the next item of anzeljg's :) +09:19:13 where do you set a plugin to be non-Block? +09:19:28 anzeljg: i don't think you can do that. +09:19:45 ok we'll discuss that later, over email or sth... +09:19:46 anzeljg: There's no plugin type for it. So, it's something we'd have to hard-code +09:19:59 2. "Cookie directive" plugin, possibly merged into core +09:20:00 ... or invent a plugin type +09:20:12 #idea "Cookie directive" plugin, possibly merged into core +09:20:12 The plugin is already implemented, you can see it in action at #link http://listovnik.sio.si (bottom right side of page - "Nastavitev zasebnosti" = "Privacy settings"). It should be noted that plugin works with $cfg->additionalhtmlhead setting, so it only works in Mahara 1.8 or newer. +09:20:19 Also there is an issue with language support - the language strings are written as a part of javascript which is written to $cfg->additionalhtmlhead setting. +09:20:28 It is possible for admin to select appropriate language when applaying settings for the plugin, but the language strings don't update dinamically - if the site supports several languages and user dinamically changes the language then that language change is not reflected, the plugin still uses the language that was set in plugin settings in admin area. +09:20:29 .. +09:20:32 This gets a high +1 from me because it is necessary for european sites. +09:22:05 anzeljg: If we incorporate it into core, then it won't have to be sent via $cfg->additionalhtmlhead, and that should help resolve the language string issues +09:22:36 this should be a site admin check box. +09:22:51 no institution setting necessary because the entire site is affected. +09:23:32 anitsirk: you've lost me, what should be a site admin check box? +09:23:43 arrow: nice +09:23:47 whether to set the cookie directive or not +09:24:15 the admin shouldn't have to change something on the server, but just tick a box and say whether they require the directive or not +09:24:46 Am I correct in assuming that what this feature does, is implements compatibility with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_on_Privacy_and_Electronic_Communications ? +09:25:00 #info rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, UK. +09:25:17 anitsirk: ther'e more to is, since the colors etc. could be dinamically changed and also the consent mode, etc. +09:25:33 hi rkabalin +09:25:33 but yes, the for for the admin to set all the stuff +09:25:51 aarow: yes +09:25:58 in EU it's mandatory! +09:26:46 (I'm skimming the simpler explanation at http://www.theeucookielaw.com/ ) +09:26:48 sorry: for for = form for ^^^ +09:28:21 yep, sounds like something it would be good to include +09:28:57 anzeljg: will need to read up on how dynamic the colors etc. would have to be. i could imagine to have them in the theme css. but that's a detail discussion for later. +09:29:13 OK +09:29:14 I imagine a lot of European Mahara sites will be quite happy +09:29:17 moving on? +09:29:27 :) +09:29:58 yep +09:29:58 3. Social site addresses in user's profile +09:30:08 Actually the bug #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/605749 contains (in my oppinion) two separate issues. +09:30:12 #idea Social site addresses in user's profile +09:30:25 The first one is to add support for social site addresses to user's profile. My idea is to implement it in a sort of the same way that the user's emails are implemented. +09:30:32 The users will be able to add multiple addresses with a form (or maybe Pieform element) which will offer them a select/drop-down box with XY most used social websites so they will first select a social site/service and than in another textbox type/insert their personal address, e.g. http://twitter.com/johndoe or http://facebook.com/johndoe or http://en.linkedin.com/in/johndoe/ +09:30:44 Second issue is on General tab. "Occupation and Industry do not make a lot of sense, especially when portfolios are used in schools for students. It would be good if the admin could change these labels for an institution." +09:30:52 The new Europass HeadlineTypeLabelType element contains one value from predefined set of values: preferred_job, job_applied_for, studies_applied_for, position or personal_statement. We could support at least that or also add our own. I'm just not sure how to do that. Any suggestions? +09:30:53 .. +09:31:50 yes, that Launchpad bug contains basically two separate items +09:31:57 Multiple sources have asked me for the ability to customize the Profile fields, I think it would make a lot of sense +09:32:08 hello dajan +09:32:09 dajan hi +09:33:02 hi there. Sorry for being (very) late. Was kidnapped in another conf early this morning. +09:33:04 I also suggested customisable profile fields to the Totara team as something they might want to implement, since they've added "custom fields" to nearly everything in Moodle +09:33:56 luckily, we're still going ;) +09:34:27 We're on item 3.3 on the agenda ( https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/29 ) +09:34:46 actually 3.2.3 +09:34:47 so anzeljg, you're mostly focused on doing the first bit of that Launchpad bug, the multiple social site addresses; rather than fully customisable profile fields +09:34:47 ? +09:34:49 I think there are individual profile fields in moodle (created by the site admin) +09:35:20 oh, right +09:35:21 3.2.3 +09:35:44 not sure. the social site addresses for sure... +09:35:45 anyway, yes, ideally most of the profile fields would be customizable. The social network fields are kind of embarrassingly out of date at this point, so even just making those more flexible would be great :) +09:36:40 #info the wishlist item for the social sites in the profile has been updated: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/605749 +09:36:40 we'd just need to make sure to have an upgrade script that converts the old-style hard-coded ones into the new-style flexible ones +09:36:46 and the approach for adding them similarly as emails would work? +09:37:01 #info there is a new wishlist item for changes to the "General" tab at https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1258067 +09:37:02 Well, presumably without the verification step +09:37:33 but in general, I think re-using the interface from the emails, would probably work +09:37:36 I menat, the users would select the site/service and enter the address :) +09:37:47 i think it would be better to just insert the username and then have the system add the rest of the url. +09:38:18 anitsirk: +1 (I wish I would think about it sooner) +09:38:18 well, I'm of two minds about that +09:38:26 aarow_laptop: why would we need to verify the urls / usernames? +09:38:30 wouldn't that make it too complicated? +09:38:31 on the plus side, it's perhaps an easier user experience if we just have them enter the username +09:38:31 Note that it is already easy to change the name of the profile field by adding a customized langpack into the local folder +09:38:34 we don't do that for the other urls that a user can insert +09:39:06 on the down side, if we have them just enter the username and we generate the URL, then we need to include a pre-set list of social networks and the ability to generate their URLs +09:39:15 dajan: yes, but if a user moves, they are back to the original or some other... +09:39:36 aarow_laptop: true. +09:39:37 or, we could include something similar to the iframe list, and let admins customize the list of social networks +09:40:16 aarow: i like your last idea +09:40:37 +1 to that idea +09:40:38 have you actually implemented anything on this yet, anzeljg? +09:40:46 That's right. Then the process of doing that will imply to save the info with the name of the field into the database. +09:40:59 it would need to be exportable (like the licenses). +09:41:00 but what happens when exporting user's portfolio +09:41:24 aarow: no implementation yet, just a lot of thinking about it... +09:41:40 anzeljg: look at the license implementation. when you export a portfolio that has license information then that is retained even if the new site doesn't have that license (as far as i know). +09:41:41 oh, okay :) +09:41:42 hm, exporting... +09:42:05 anitsirk: will do +09:42:06 well, maybe you'd need to have an "Other" option, that lets the user supply the name of the social network and a URL +09:42:20 aarow: though of that one also :) +09:43:28 if we have that (that the users could select from list of preentered sites or add their own) then I think we don't need admin interface similar to iframes... +09:44:00 It does make the admin page less necessary +09:44:05 the site/service should then be written to DB along with the url +09:44:36 the admin page is a kind of future-proofing, in case all the devs are too lazy to keep the list up to date +09:45:00 I see :) +09:45:18 And why not having an interface such as the one we actually use to add files to profile's info. Therfore the user is in charge of creating what he wants in the quantity he wants. He will have a field to choose the service and another one to provide his identity. A plus sign will let him to add a new one a minus sign to delete one. When I am writing "he" I also mean "she" +09:45:55 that was initial idea (like adding emails) +09:46:30 but the problem is what if the service is not on the list... +09:46:31 yeah, I think for consistency across the user profile area, making it similar to the Emails interface is good +09:47:02 but without the verification step i would say. +09:47:09 of course +09:47:32 In your experience: do you think that admin will want to control what kind of services the users will provide info about? +09:47:33 will the visiblity of the individual item be granular? or are you going to make all of them visible? I can't remember what we do with emails now... +09:47:34 but wouldn't we then have to change the existing site where you ahve the text box for entering usernames? +09:47:38 +1 for emails interface +09:47:58 ghada: you can decide which item to display and which one not to +09:47:59 Personally, I think it would be good enough to just give users two text fields, one for the name of the social network, and the other for their URL or username +09:48:30 yeah that's what I'm thinking +09:48:33 I agree with arron +09:49:03 so we leave it to users to enter e.g. Twitter or twitter or Facebook or facebook or FB or ... +09:49:23 then it would have to be the url i would say because users expect to get a link esp. when it's linkedin, twitter etc. they don't want to copy and paste the user name at the end of a url... +09:49:27 and just store it as field1=field2 pairs +09:49:58 there are some antiquated social networks, such as AIM, where you don't have a URL +09:50:30 I guess the downside to making it freetext is that you would get irregularity in the results +09:50:40 so the description would say: "paste the URL or username" +09:50:49 what about trying to fetch the site-icon like mahara does with the allowed iframe sources, instead of a name for the network? +09:51:10 potential for malicious users to have links to dodgy sites? although the site icon would help with that +09:51:27 or do we trust our users/administrators? +09:51:35 and that again takes us to set of predefined addresses +09:51:38 mingard: they can enter these already in their blog address ;-) +09:51:48 haha ok +09:52:02 but of course the fields should be XSS safe +09:52:03 well, I guess the advantage to doing something like the iframe page, is that it provides a bit more polish and consistency to the experience. You'd have the admins enter a list of social network sites, potentially define a URL template for each one, and specify whether they want a freetext "Other" option +09:52:31 nice summary +09:52:36 +1 +09:52:45 +1 +09:52:46 +2 +09:52:54 +1 +09:52:55 okay anzeljg, see if you can implement it that way ;) +09:52:57 ;) +09:53:00 +1 +09:53:03 +1 +09:53:05 +1 +09:53:07 i'll try +09:53:18 the last from me... +09:53:24 @anzeljg: More work for you my friend +09:53:30 4. Adding functionality to place comment/feedback on each individual block on a page +09:53:40 I was informed that is would be really helpful if users could place comments/feedback on each individual block on page. Sort od like Facebook works (also likes of each individual block would be nice...). I'm just raising that issue here to get your oppinion on that and if there are some plans to implement that... +09:53:47 #idea for implementing more flexibility for adding (new) social sites: the advantage to doing something like the iframe page, is that it provides a bit more polish and consistency to the experience. You'd have the admins enter a list of social network sites, potentially define a URL template for each one, and specify whether they want a freetext "Other" option +09:53:53 .. +09:54:04 #idea +09:54:08 #idea Adding functionality to place comment/feedback on each individual block on a page +09:54:21 anzeljg: did you have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1037531 ? +09:54:22 We at Catalyst don't have any plans to implement that just now. Though we did recently implement something that sounds similar but is not ;) +09:54:32 would all blocks need to have feedback? +09:54:38 we've been discussing this a bit on the wishlist item +09:54:39 robertl implemented a "comment block", which lets you change the location of the comments from the bottom of the page, to a Block on the page +09:54:51 anitsirk: honestly I didn't... +09:55:11 aarow_laptop: but that is the page feedback and not individual block feedback. +09:55:42 yep +09:55:43 that's why I said it sounds similar but is not actually similar ;) +09:55:53 many blocks in mahara can already have comments, but that takes you to the details page and there is not always a comment count when you view the portfolio page. +09:55:56 robertl_ yes. it's not enough to just display comments in a block rather than at the end of page +09:56:28 I guess another thing to note in this discussion, which we're probably already aware of, is that File artefacts already can have their own comments +09:56:41 it would be nice that the comments could be expanded/viewed under each block +09:56:50 btw, the comment block aarow_laptop was talking about will be in 1.9. it's a feature sponsored by the new york institute of technology. +09:57:06 In my experience of assessing ePortfolios and portfolios, we give feedback on the whole page or document, not block by block. And already we can give comments on the artefacts. +09:57:06 so in the case of a File Block, you'd probably want to display the comment thread for that File artefact +09:57:27 yes +09:58:01 dajan: actually I haven't assessed portfolios, that was a suggestion made by others... +09:58:03 for a folder block would you show all comments for all the files +09:58:08 ? +09:58:38 robertl_ Have no idea, that's why I've started that conversation anyway... :) +09:58:39 well, that's where it gets tricky +09:58:39 there is not a 1:1 relationship between blocks and artefacts +09:59:00 we'd have to look at each block type and see where comments would make sense. some internal ones may not be so well suited, but external blocks should have comments. sometimes you may want to comment on an embedded video. +09:59:01 in fact, very few blocks do represent one artefact. I think the File Block is more an exception than the rule +09:59:18 What will happen to comments of shared text box? +09:59:50 I think from an implementation standpoint, it would also require some DB changes to let comments "belong" to a block +09:59:51 might be confusing for users to have comments on some blocks and not others (not knowing how it works behind the scenes) +10:00:00 yes, yes and yes. Will try to explain that to people that suggested that. +10:00:07 sonn_: i think they should be seen by anyone viewing the text box like for journal entries. i don't know of the top of my head if that is not already the case. +10:00:08 and comments with attachments +10:00:17 that can have comments +10:00:18 And personally I agree that comments on the end of page should be enough +10:00:34 :) +10:00:57 anzeljg: take a look at the wishlist item. gordon and don had some good thoughts. would be great if you added yours / the ones of your users to that to continue the discussion. +10:00:57 well, a Text Box is one of the block types where the block represents one Artefact +10:00:59 I agree. Otherwise, it's too cluttered +10:01:32 anitsirk: will do (the bug you've mentioned earlier?) +10:02:03 I think what anitsirk said about looking at it separately for each block type would be the way to go. If we added this feature, it would need to be something that would be optionally turned on for each block type. Like, adding a "supports_comments()" method to the Blocktype class, which returns false by default +10:02:18 i think it is good to be able to comment on individual artefacts. some users have 100 different ones on a page and then the feedback at the bottom is not enough esp. when we don't have a history of a page revision. but it's not good that the comments are often not visible, i.e. often you don't know that an artefact has a commen unless you really click on it. +10:02:25 anzeljg: yep: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1037531 +10:02:32 I just want to give you an insight on how we do to assess portfolios in Mahara or within other platforms (sorry but sometimes I have to be a cheater). First we give feedback on artefacts when we help the users to build their portfolio. We help them to link their artefacts with skills using the tags function. These comments are general and help the users to build something coherent and personal. Then when the pages are shared we assess or comment on how the +10:02:33 users explain the achievement of the LO (Learning Outcomes) or how they have shown the attainment of the goals, the acquisition of skills. +10:03:04 and it would need to be configurable in each block instance, like how we let users disable comments for each Page and artefact +10:03:52 I am off now, will see the minute tomorrow. My son needs me +10:04:23 see you tomorrow, sonn_ +10:04:30 bye, sonn_ +10:04:32 bye +10:04:36 dajan: I've programmed a custom plugin for that, called "My Learnigs" or Learnings where users set their goals, reflect upon Learnign Outcomes, etc. It was in part intended for EUfolio project (http://eufolio.eu) +10:04:36 see ya sonn_ +10:04:41 see you sonn +10:04:45 bye sonn_ +10:04:58 you know, maybe a way to expose the comment threads of individual artefacts, from, say, the "Files to Download" block, would be handy +10:05:05 bye sonn +10:05:37 a little speech bubble icon that indicates it has 3 comments, and you click on it and it expands into a comments thread... +10:06:12 yeah - having them hidden first thenshowing them if needed would be the way to go +10:06:13 aarow: like the idea +10:06:53 Yes, but the comments you make on an artefact are often non relevant when the latter is put into a context of a page. +10:07:05 aarow_laptop: like this: https://launchpadlibrarian.net/112828955/artefact_feedback.png ? +10:07:16 pardon my bad mock-ups. evonne makes much nicer ones. ;-) +10:07:17 ah, that's true in the case you've described, dajan +10:07:48 and also considering that artefacts can be used across multiple pages +10:08:08 dajan: but that shouldn't mean that it should be burried i think. it can reveal the initial thinking and also show progress / or not progression that the learner has taken +10:08:08 I'm sure that if you could look at the artefact comment thread from within the page, users would make page-specific comments, which would then show up on another page and make no sense +10:08:08 It is what I meant by "context" +10:08:09 also would need to take into account space on page - if you had 5 cols it might be hard to read comments +10:09:02 if they were all squished up +10:09:06 In that case comments have to be put into popups +10:09:38 anitsirk: Yes, if we were to have expandable comment subthreads, I'd envision them looking something like your mockup +10:09:38 Moodle 2 actually hase some quite nice comment popups :) +10:10:10 and a really keen API that makes it easy to add a comment thread to anything +10:10:34 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1037531 for additional information from other users for comment / feedback improvements +10:10:34 don't know how well it would integrate with our current system of storing comments as Artefacts ... +10:10:35 maybe just the Javascript part of it +10:10:36 If we implement this, I think that tutors will want to provide general feedbacks on artefacts which are relevant in the whole portfolios and specific and contextualized feedbacks on the artifact on a specific page. Not easy to code this. +10:11:08 yes +10:11:08 for purposes of context, tying comment threads to Blocks actually does make more sense +10:11:40 a Block only lives in exactly one page +10:12:11 although the current system of just having one comment thread per page also helps to fix the context ;) +10:12:27 aarow_laptop: not when it's a text box that can be re-used or a journal entry etc. unless you argue that it's a separate block because it can have a different heading and is in a different page. +10:12:58 Yes, a Text Box Block is only on one page. But it displays a Note artefact, which can be displayed in several Text Box blocks +10:13:29 Blog entries are trickier... +10:14:01 Well, any further thoughts on this subject? +10:14:30 not at the moment. +10:14:45 no +10:14:55 I think you should discuss with tutors and people who assess ePortfolio with Mahara to see what they really need there. +10:15:04 agreed, sounds like it needs more thought generally +10:15:20 agreed. +10:15:31 I can make a little survey here in UK France and Switzerland if you want +10:15:56 can you send me the survey question to pass it to my users dajan? +10:16:08 dajan: would be good to post them on the forums as well +10:16:20 I was more thinking about a focus group (online or f2f). +10:16:20 I'll note that in the minutes then, shall I? +10:17:22 #action dajan to gather some information from tutors and ePortfolio assessors to find out their needs in this area +10:17:31 What is the deadline because we are arriving in a period of calm wit Xmas +10:18:03 Well, the 1.9 feature freeze is in February +10:18:21 first week of feb +10:18:21 so if anzeljg wanted to get something in for 1.9, it'd need to be before then +10:18:34 Short +10:19:06 #info robertl updated the release schedule at https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/6MonthlyCycle +10:19:10 I will do my best for Januray +10:19:13 aarow: noted that. this will be busy Xmas holidays... +10:19:29 there is always the october release. :-) +10:19:36 he he he... +10:20:08 Yes, there's always 1.10 +10:20:23 I though it will be 2.0 ;) +10:20:23 okay, anything else on this topic? +10:20:28 nope +10:20:34 not from me +10:20:34 We can discuss that at the next meeting ;) +10:21:06 so that brings us to... +10:21:06 #topic Next meeting & chair +10:21:07 When shall we hold the next meeting? +10:21:25 I think in January, before feature freeze +10:21:41 mid/late jan sounds good +10:21:57 sounds good to me +10:21:58 Jan 12? +10:22:03 later +10:22:13 aarow_laptop: sunday? +10:22:13 or is the 19th better? +10:22:26 aarow_laptop: why are you going for sundays? +10:22:48 16th or 23rd? +10:22:49 Sorry, my calendar keeps closing +10:22:49 I was looking at December by accident +10:22:50 23rd? That's a Thursday +10:22:56 In France they want to put into the Law the right to make people work on Sunday +10:23:03 ah that explains it. :-) +10:23:19 well today is thursday also :) +10:23:33 aarow_laptop: i think we have a question at hand from dobedobedoh. +10:23:34 22nd then? +10:24:01 if we stick to our early nz / utc time, then perth can't participate in january because that'll be at an ungodly hour as it might be 8 a.m. NZ time +10:24:29 Wednesdays are always busy but deepening on the time I would maybe show up during the meeting +10:24:29 right +10:24:57 21 UTC? +10:25:10 dajan: this time it would be our turn for early morning which would be evening for you unless we find a better time to accommodate dobedobedoh +10:25:31 Fine by me. +10:25:42 I will bring your the croissants +10:25:56 and french toast? +10:26:05 :) +10:26:28 I don't think so, I am Brit and Swiss. Not French. But for you I will and add some marmelade +10:26:50 ;) +10:26:50 I think we'd need to do 23:00 or 0:00 to accommodate Perth +10:26:52 And a bircher muesli +10:27:05 heh, or Marmite +10:27:06 but that would make it midnight in Europe +10:27:21 that's quite late :( +10:27:45 Fine by me. I don't go to bed before one or two. And once in the month that's ok +10:27:57 21 UTC fine with me +10:28:29 Why does Moodle HQ have to be in *Western* Australia :-P +10:28:32 Is UTC 21 equal to 22:00 in Europe or 23:00? +10:28:41 22:00 +10:29:01 thanks, that's what I thought +10:29:02 at the moment i think because you are on winter time +10:29:10 yep +10:29:43 right now is 10:30 UTC, but 11:30 p.m. NZ and 11:40 a.m. continental europe +10:29:53 or rather 11:30 a.m. ;-) +10:30:08 So I have to leave you now I have another webminar with ALT on ePortfolio. Must go. +10:30:15 I might come if we start at 23:00, starting at 0:00 is a bit late for me... +10:30:17 bye dajan +10:30:20 Will rea the chat notes tomorrow +10:30:24 bye dajan +10:30:26 bye +10:31:01 I have to head out too. see you online... +10:31:12 have a nice evening, ghada +10:31:13 Since Perth is UTC+8, it's not possible to accommodate a sensible Perth morning time and a sensible European evening time +10:31:16 see ya ghada +10:31:20 thanks for including me! +10:31:21 See you guys. We'll post the next dev meeting time on the forums +10:31:29 bye... +10:31:42 what if we do it again Perth evening / Europe morning? +10:31:43 thanks for showing up +10:31:55 we could do that +10:32:25 fine by me. we used to alternate so that everyone had a very early morning, but right now, we aren't on such an early morning for you in europe, are we? +10:32:25 if we're trying to include people in NZ, Australi, and Europe, sticking with this time makes the most sense +10:32:57 so long as no one from the US wants to join us... ;) +10:32:58 at 9 a.m. in Europe, so it's fine +10:33:30 same here, 9 am is very convenient +10:33:31 okay, so 23 Jan 8:00 UTC +10:33:40 +1 +10:33:45 +1 +10:33:49 +1 +10:33:51 +1 +10:34:00 +1 +10:34:24 who wants to chair? +10:34:38 I can +10:34:45 cool. thanks, anzeljg +10:35:07 for those new here: we try to rotate the chair every time. that also helps everyone to learn the commands for writing the minutes :-) +10:35:08 sounds good +10:35:12 +1 +10:35:31 cool, +1 +10:35:32 ooh, this'll be the historic 30th dev meeting +10:35:42 even nicer... +10:36:13 #info anzeljg will chair the 40th Mahara developer meeting on 23 January at 8:00 UTC. See http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=30th+Mahara+dev+meeting&iso=20130123T08 for the time zone conversion +10:36:24 oh shoot. i meant to write 30th +10:36:30 wasn't it 30th a second ago? +10:36:32 sorry for getting my numbers mixed up today +10:36:40 undo +10:37:01 aarow_laptop: can you please try to undo? only the chair can, but i don't know if it works for info +10:37:31 #info corrected: anzeljg will chair the 30th Mahara developer meeting on 23 January at 8:00 UTC. See http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=30th+Mahara+dev+meeting&iso=20130123T08 for the time zone conversion +10:37:32 #undo +10:37:32 Removing item from minutes: +10:38:03 And lastly, any other business? +10:38:17 yes. 1 short one +10:38:28 aarow: I think you've undone the corrected info +10:40:01 well, it's not a huge typo +10:40:20 :) +10:40:24 anitsirk: go on +10:40:28 #info the deadline for the next mahara newsletter will be 24 december 2013. if you have an article to include, please send the 100-150 words to newsletter@mahara.org +10:40:38 that's all. +10:41:04 anitsirk: i see you'll also have busy xmas holidays... +10:41:11 ;-) +10:41:51 anybody else? +10:41:57 nope +10:42:00 nothing from me +10:42:00 as in "any other business"? +10:42:26 nor from me +10:42:57 okay, adjourning this meeting then +10:43:29 If anyone has any other business you've forgotten, as always feel free to post it on the forums, bring it up here on IRC, and/or put it on the agenda for the next meeting. :) +10:43:29 #endmeeting \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-12-05-08.01.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-12-05-08.01.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..d64a383ea44b4bcbc0062345c1a89be466e1d247 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-12-05-08.01.txt @@ -0,0 +1,191 @@ +=================== +#mahara-dev Meeting +=================== + + +Meeting started by aarow_laptop at 08:01:09 UTC. The full logs are +available at +http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-12-05-08.01.log.html +. + + + +Meeting summary +--------------- +* anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ (anitsirk, + 08:02:26) +* dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols, Moodle Pty Ltd, Perth, Australia. + (dobedobedoh, 08:02:33) +* sonn_ is Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Welllington, NZ (sonn_, 08:02:35) +* anzeljg is Gregor Anželj, developer and translator, Ljubljana, + Slovenia (anzeljg, 08:02:40) +* aarow_laptop is Aaron Wells, Catalyst IT in Wellington (aarow_laptop, + 08:02:50) +* mingard is Jono Mingard, newly of Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ + (mingard, 08:02:53) +* robertl_ is Robert Lyon, developer, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ + (robertl_, 08:03:23) +* #me is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany + (tobiasz, 08:03:53) +* /me is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany + (tobiasz, 08:04:01) +* ghada is Ghada El-Zoghbi, developer, Catalyst IT, Sydney, Aus (ghada, + 08:04:15) +* tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany + (tobiasz, 08:04:18) +* Items from last meeting: The "Choose a skin" contest (aarow_laptop, + 08:06:28) + * The contest was a success at locating bugs during the RC stage, and + raising interest in skins (aarow_laptop, 08:11:05) + * One reported oversight is the inability to set the color of the + topnav (aarow_laptop, 08:11:30) + * LINK: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Page_skins (aarow_laptop, + 08:12:42) + * we've set up a skins sharing page on the wiki: + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Page_skins (aarow_laptop, + 08:13:09) + +* Dropping support for MySQL 5.1, as of Mahara 1.9 (aarow_laptop, + 08:14:52) + * LINK: http://packages.debian.org/wheezy/mysql-server (dobedobedoh, + 08:17:59) + * LINK: http://mirror.centos.org/centos/6/os/x86_64/Packages/ + (dobedobedoh, 08:18:57) + * LINK: + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/System_Administrator%27s_Guide/Requirements + (robertl_, 08:19:58) + * ACTION: We should get a look at which OS's & versions we'll be + cutting off if we drop support for 5.1 (anitsirk, 08:29:01) + * ACTION: also, note that if we can specify 5.1.6 at least, we'll make + things easier for ourselves (aarow_laptop, 08:31:11) + +* Plans & priorities for Mahara 1.9 (aarow_laptop, 08:31:36) + * ACTION: sonn_ will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting + off if we drop support for 5.1. (anitsirk, 08:32:47) + +* Plans & priorities for Mahara 1.9 (aarow_laptop, 08:33:18) + * It's not looking to be as big and exciting of a release as 1.8 + (aarow_laptop, 08:33:47) + * We've got mingard working on accessibility (aarow_laptop, 08:34:36) + * And I'd really like to upstream the improvements to sent messages + and notifications being developed by tobiasz (aarow_laptop, + 08:35:29) + * Automated test, would be great, but outlook uncertain at the moment + (aarow_laptop, 08:48:42) + * extending mahara with tests (unit tests but also behat) is high on + the wishlist as it would facilitate regression testing, + compatibility of new code etc. (anitsirk, 08:56:14) + +* Features funded by Arnes which could go into 1.9 (aarow_laptop, + 08:59:20) + * IDEA: The idea is to take anzeljg's "Progress bar" plugin, which has + static set of artefacts that it observes and based on those + artefacts it alculates the Profile completeness. The plugin could be + extended in a way to implement page/dashboard for institution admins + which would list all available artefacts and the admins would select + which artefacts should count towards Profile completeness for their + institution. (anitsirk, 09:03:33) + * the proof-of-concept around the progress bar plugin and a screenshot + can be seen in the Mahara Newsletter, October 2013 + https://mahara.org/view/artefact.php?artefact=292431&view=36871 + (anitsirk, 09:08:02) + * IDEA: Add an interface for site & instititution admins to customize + the default dashboard page (aarow_laptop, 09:16:34) + * IDEA: Put the profile progress into a non-Block similar to homeinfo + (aarow_laptop, 09:16:43) + * IDEA: "Cookie directive" plugin, possibly merged into core + (anitsirk, 09:20:12) + * rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, UK. (rkabalin, + 09:25:00) + * IDEA: Social site addresses in user's profile (anitsirk, 09:30:12) + * the wishlist item for the social sites in the profile has been + updated: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/605749 (anitsirk, + 09:36:40) + * there is a new wishlist item for changes to the "General" tab at + https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1258067 (anitsirk, 09:37:01) + * IDEA: for implementing more flexibility for adding (new) social + sites: the advantage to doing something like the iframe page, is + that it provides a bit more polish and consistency to the + experience. You'd have the admins enter a list of social network + sites, potentially define a URL template for each one, and specify + whether they want a freetext "Other" option (anitsirk, 09:53:47) + * IDEA: (anitsirk, 09:54:04) + * IDEA: Adding functionality to place comment/feedback on each + individual block on a page (anitsirk, 09:54:08) + * LINK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1037531 for additional + information from other users for comment / feedback improvements + (anitsirk, 10:10:34) + * ACTION: dajan to gather some information from tutors and ePortfolio + assessors to find out their needs in this area (aarow_laptop, + 10:17:22) + * robertl updated the release schedule at + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/6MonthlyCycle (anitsirk, + 10:19:06) + +* Next meeting & chair (aarow_laptop, 10:21:06) + * anzeljg will chair the 40th Mahara developer meeting on 23 January + at 8:00 UTC. See + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=30th+Mahara+dev+meeting&iso=20130123T08 + for the time zone conversion (anitsirk, 10:36:13) + * the deadline for the next mahara newsletter will be 24 december + 2013. if you have an article to include, please send the 100-150 + words to newsletter@mahara.org (anitsirk, 10:40:28) + +Meeting ended at 10:43:29 UTC. + + + + +Action Items +------------ +* We should get a look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if + we drop support for 5.1 +* also, note that if we can specify 5.1.6 at least, we'll make things + easier for ourselves +* sonn_ will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we + drop support for 5.1. +* dajan to gather some information from tutors and ePortfolio assessors + to find out their needs in this area + + + + +Action Items, by person +----------------------- +* dajan + * dajan to gather some information from tutors and ePortfolio + assessors to find out their needs in this area +* sonn_ + * sonn_ will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we + drop support for 5.1. +* **UNASSIGNED** + * We should get a look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off + if we drop support for 5.1 + * also, note that if we can specify 5.1.6 at least, we'll make things + easier for ourselves + + + + +People Present (lines said) +--------------------------- +* aarow_laptop (199) +* anitsirk (128) +* anzeljg (126) +* mingard (33) +* dobedobedoh (33) +* dajan (32) +* robertl_ (31) +* ghada (22) +* tobiasz (13) +* sonn_ (8) +* aarow_laptop_ (8) +* rkabalin (4) +* maharameet (4) + + + + +Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 + +.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-01-23-08.04.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-01-23-08.04.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..055164b1cf00dc074ba4414219d145d82b1f79e5 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-01-23-08.04.html @@ -0,0 +1,229 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev Meeting + + + + +

#mahara-dev Meeting

+ +Meeting started by anzeljg at 08:04:33 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Meeting summary

+
    +
  1. +
      +
    1. anzeljg is Gregor Anzelj, developer and + translator from Gimnazija Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia (anzeljg, + 08:04:45)
    2. +
    3. anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, + Wellington, NZ (anitsirk, + 08:04:50)
    4. +
    5. dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols, Moodle HQ, Perth, + AU (dobedobedoh, + 08:05:06)
    6. +
    7. mingard is Jono Mingard, intern at Catalyst IT, + Wellington, NZ (mingard, + 08:05:13)
    8. +
    9. robertl is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, + Wellington, NZ (robertl, + 08:05:31)
    10. +
    11. aarowlaptop is Aaron Wells at Catalyst IT in + Wellington NZ (aarowlaptop, + 08:05:38)
    12. +
    13. NameLess-exe is Leo Xiong, 2014 Catalyst OSA + student, Hamilton, NZ (NameLess-exe, + 08:06:52)
    14. +
    +
  2. +
  3. Items from last meeting: dajan to gather some information from tutors and ePortfolio assessors to find out their needs in this area (anzeljg, 08:07:20) +
  4. +
  5. Items from last meeting: sonn will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1. (anzeljg, 08:08:29) +
      +
    1. ACTION: sonn will + look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop + support for 5.1 (anzeljg, + 08:11:09)
    2. +
    +
  6. +
  7. Status of Leap2a import (anzeljg) (anzeljg, 08:11:29) +
      +
    1. tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, + Karlsruhe, Germany (tobiasz, + 08:14:36)
    2. +
    +
  8. +
  9. Profile "General" tab should have better options (https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1258067) (anzeljg) (anzeljg, 08:24:33) +
      +
    1. IDEA: move the + "General" tab from "Profile" to the "Resume" as the fields apply + there more readily. (anitsirk, + 08:34:51)
    2. +
    3. IDEA: Offer more fields + and not only Occupation and Industry as these don't apply for + everyone. However, since we'll always have people not needing + fields, the admin should be able to hide certain fields that don't + apply. (anitsirk, + 08:35:36)
    4. +
    5. when moving the "General" fields to the resume, + they would be artefacts as they are now. they have to be selectable + on individual basis, but grouped somehow at the same time - to be + displayed together... (anitsirk, + 08:45:27)
    6. +
    +
  10. +
  11. Next meeting and chair (anzeljg, 08:48:01) +
      +
    1. the 31st Mahara Developer Meeting will take + place on 27 March 2014 at 8:00 UTC: + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=31st+Mahara+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140327T08 + (anitsirk, + 09:01:14)
    2. +
    3. anitsirk will chair the 31st Mahara Developer + Meeting. (anitsirk, + 09:01:51)
    4. +
    +
  12. +
  13. Any other business (anzeljg, 09:03:20) +
      +
    1. Feature freeze is in the first full week of + February, 3-9 February 2014. See + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/6MonthlyCycle (anitsirk, + 09:04:10)
    2. +
    3. the first mahara conference in the southern + hemisphere will take place in Wellington on 19 and 20 March 2014 + followed by a one-day hackfest. Mahara Hui welcomes everyone to New + Zealand. Hopefully, some of you can make it. :-) (anitsirk, + 09:07:04)
    4. +
    5. https://maharahui.org.nz + (anitsirk, + 09:07:20)
    6. +
    7. currently, accessibility is not great for + editing and administration, but thankfully most of those issues were + easy to fix and there are already patches merged for 1.9. + (anitsirk, + 09:11:09)
    8. +
    9. mingard is working on some of the harder stuff + (like getting a keyboard-accessible version of the drag-and-drop + page editor working) at the moment so Mahara should be fully + compliant with WCAG 2.0 level AA (and therefore the accessibility + standards of most countries and administrations) in 1.9 (anitsirk, + 09:12:10)
    10. +
    11. accessibility will stay a continued focus and + there will be information available on the wiki for developers to + ensure that basic accessibility guidelines are followed when fixing + bugs and creating new features (anitsirk, + 09:14:56)
    12. +
    13. https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2491/ + (tobiasz, + 09:26:40)
    14. +
    +
  14. +
+

+ + + + +Meeting ended at 09:30:38 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Action items

+
    +
  1. sonn will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1
  2. +
+

+ + + +

People present (lines said)

+
    +
  1. anzeljg (121)
  2. +
  3. anitsirk (101)
  4. +
  5. aarowlaptop (55)
  6. +
  7. mingard (30)
  8. +
  9. tobiasz (21)
  10. +
  11. robertl (17)
  12. +
  13. maharameet (5)
  14. +
  15. dobedobedoh (5)
  16. +
  17. NameLess-exe (3)
  18. +
+

+ + + +Generated by MeetBot 0.1.4. + diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-01-23-08.04.log.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-01-23-08.04.log.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..2db7b770b26d899c5f6fb9975905ea406c509ace --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-01-23-08.04.log.html @@ -0,0 +1,385 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev log + + + + +
08:04:33 <anzeljg> #startmeeting
+08:04:33 <maharameet> Meeting started Thu Jan 23 08:04:33 2014 UTC.  The chair is anzeljg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
+08:04:33 <maharameet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
+08:04:33 <dobedobedoh> I am here
+08:04:35 <anitsirk> anzeljg: if i don't have moderator rights, i can't end the meeting ;-)
+08:04:37 <anzeljg> Please introduce yourselves using #info command, so your introduction will be shown in meeting minutes
+08:04:45 <anzeljg> #info anzeljg is Gregor Anzelj, developer and translator from Gimnazija Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia
+08:04:50 <anitsirk> #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:05:06 <dobedobedoh> #info dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols, Moodle HQ, Perth, AU
+08:05:13 <mingard> #info mingard is Jono Mingard, intern at Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:05:31 <robertl> #info robertl is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:05:38 <aarowlaptop> #info aarowlaptop is Aaron Wells at Catalyst IT in Wellington NZ
+08:06:00 <anzeljg> anybody else?
+08:06:15 <anitsirk> mingard and NameLess-exe were here just a few minutes ago
+08:06:23 <NameLess-exe> huh?
+08:06:36 <anitsirk> NameLess-exe: can you please introduce yourself for the meeting minutes?
+08:06:45 <NameLess-exe> oh ok...
+08:06:52 <NameLess-exe> #info NameLess-exe is Leo Xiong, 2014 Catalyst OSA student, Hamilton, NZ
+08:07:03 <anitsirk> OSA = Open Source Academy
+08:07:17 <anzeljg> that's everybody then...
+08:07:20 <anzeljg> #topic Items from last meeting: dajan to gather some information from tutors and ePortfolio assessors to find out their needs in this area
+08:07:28 <anitsirk> he was one of the three students who improved Mahara last week by fixing bugs.
+08:07:41 <anzeljg> great.
+08:07:57 <anitsirk> anzeljg: have you heard from dajan?
+08:07:57 <anzeljg> back to the topic...
+08:08:01 <anzeljg> dajan informed me that he would not be able to attend the meeting (family issues). He says hi to all of you...
+08:08:17 <anzeljg> so moving to next topic...
+08:08:29 <anzeljg> #topic Items from last meeting: sonn will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1.
+08:08:42 <anzeljg> anybody heard anything from sonn?
+08:08:46 <dobedobedoh> #chair
+08:09:02 <anitsirk> aarowlaptop: do you have an update?
+08:09:04 <dobedobedoh> anzeljg: Can you run #chair please? I think I've added anitsirk as a chair
+08:09:12 <anzeljg> #chair
+08:09:12 <maharameet> Current chairs: anitsirk anzeljg
+08:09:18 <aarowlaptop> Hm, I seem to recall that he did start looking into that
+08:09:21 <anzeljg> thanx dobedobedoh
+08:09:21 <anitsirk> thank you, dobedobedoh
+08:09:25 <dobedobedoh> :)
+08:09:26 <aarowlaptop> but I don't recall that he reached a conclusion
+08:09:48 <anitsirk> ok. let's put it on the todo list for next meeting then.
+08:10:38 <anzeljg> #action somebody should look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1
+08:10:44 <anzeljg> ok then...
+08:10:47 <anzeljg> moving on
+08:10:49 <anitsirk> nah. let's leave it with sonn.
+08:10:57 <anzeljg> #undo
+08:10:57 <maharameet> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x2c65b50>
+08:11:09 <anzeljg> #action sonn will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1
+08:11:13 <anzeljg> :)
+08:11:29 <anzeljg> #topic Status of Leap2a import (anzeljg)
+08:11:58 <anzeljg> this came up when I was coding support for user's social profile addresses
+08:11:58 <anitsirk> hi rkabalin
+08:12:03 <anzeljg> hi rkabalin
+08:12:30 <anzeljg> I've successfuly coded the export, but then I realized that Leap2a import isn't working.
+08:12:35 <anzeljg> what is the status on that?
+08:12:36 <anzeljg> ..
+08:12:50 <aarowlaptop> individual user leap2a import?
+08:12:54 <anzeljg> yes
+08:13:04 <aarowlaptop> It should be working. We tested it quite a bit before the 1.8.0 release
+08:13:20 <anzeljg> scenario: user eports his/her stuff and tries to import that back (in same site or another site)
+08:13:39 <anzeljg> it wasn't working for me
+08:13:40 <aarowlaptop> Yep, that's the scenario I tested. Haven't tried it lately, but I could give it a try on master.dev.mahara.org right now
+08:13:41 <anitsirk> does the content have the correct tags or whatever leap2a needs?
+08:14:06 <anitsirk> hi tobiasz
+08:14:13 <anzeljg> I could try this one more time and send any error or debug messages if there will be any (but that will happen after the meeting)
+08:14:34 <anitsirk> anzeljg: is that related to your functionality or in general?
+08:14:34 <anzeljg> i believe the tags are correct
+08:14:36 <tobiasz> #info tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany
+08:14:58 <anzeljg> anitsirk: first i've tried that with my functionallity and it wasn't working
+08:15:17 <aarowlaptop> Hm, it does seem to be timing out when I try it on master.dev.mahara.org. Maybe there was a regression at some point
+08:15:23 <anzeljg> then I've tried that without functionality on clean user account and different mahara instance - no luck
+08:15:43 <aarowlaptop> oh wait, it finished
+08:15:45 <anzeljg> hi tobiasz
+08:16:00 <tobiasz> hi everybody, sorry for joining late
+08:16:14 <anzeljg> aarowlaptop: i'll check again and i'll let you know. OK?
+08:16:21 <aarowlaptop> thanks
+08:16:41 <aarowlaptop> Probably there's something in particular in your export that is triggering an unknown bug
+08:16:43 <anitsirk> anzeljg: if it doesn't work on your instance, it would be great to get the leap2a file that you are using
+08:17:02 <aarowlaptop> Yes, quite often it's most handy to have the actual leap2a file that's failing to import
+08:17:03 <anzeljg> anitsirk: ok, will attach that too
+08:17:26 <anzeljg> one more question related to import/export and user's social profile addresses
+08:17:51 <anzeljg> those of you who reviewed my code will know what I'm asking
+08:18:05 <anitsirk> sorry, haven't had time to look at this feature yet. :-(
+08:18:27 <anzeljg> if I use IDs instead of aervice names, how will those IDs be exported and mapped back at import stage?
+08:18:34 <anzeljg> hopefully this makes sense...
+08:18:40 <aarowlaptop> yes
+08:18:44 <aarowlaptop> that does make sense
+08:18:51 <anzeljg> ;)
+08:19:05 <aarowlaptop> we were talking about using a surrogate key integer "ID" column instead of using the service "name" column as the foreign key
+08:19:23 <anzeljg> aarowlaptop thanks for the explanation
+08:19:31 <aarowlaptop> maybe the best thing would be to include the service URL in the leap2a export file?
+08:19:43 <aarowlaptop> and then on import, check to see if there's a service in the import site that has the same URL?
+08:19:55 <anzeljg> well, currently that is included in the export (will send Leap2a file)
+08:20:07 <anzeljg> so that means, that I mapped it using service URL?
+08:20:17 <anzeljg> mapped = map
+08:20:23 <aarowlaptop> If the URL of each service is required and expected to be unique, that'd be the best way to do it I think
+08:20:44 <anzeljg> great idea. haven't thought of it :(
+08:20:47 <anzeljg> thanks
+08:20:51 <anitsirk> aarowlaptop: do you know how the licenses work? there it's the same issue i think.
+08:21:06 <aarowlaptop> oh yeah, there is a similar issue with licenses
+08:21:13 <aarowlaptop> a site can have custom licenses
+08:21:14 <anzeljg> i'll have a look
+08:21:28 <aarowlaptop> and then you face some trouble when you import a leap2a with that license into a different site
+08:21:41 <anitsirk> and the receiving site may not have a license set up that the user had on the old site, but it will still be displayed
+08:21:56 <aarowlaptop> yeah, generally speaking the solution to the license problem would be to export enough information to identify an identical but separately created license on the destination site :)
+08:21:58 <anitsirk> aarowlaptop: you shouldn't. that was the whole point.
+08:22:19 <anzeljg> i think it's slightly different, but I will check it out. thanks aarowlaptop and anitsirk
+08:22:44 <mingard> I have a feeling it's displayed as just a URL or an ID or something if you import it into a site without that license, but I can't remember exactly what happens ...
+08:23:51 <anzeljg> i think this topic is finished
+08:23:53 <anzeljg> moving on?
+08:24:13 <anitsirk> anzeljg: do you want to set an action point for yourself?
+08:24:13 <mingard> sure
+08:24:33 <anzeljg> #topic Profile "General" tab should have better options (https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1258067) (anzeljg)
+08:25:03 <anzeljg> New version of Europass introduecs some new fields which I would really like to include in mahara core.
+08:25:23 <anzeljg> I've prepared a mockup #link https://twitter.com/anzeljg/status/426225082000629761/photo/1
+08:25:30 <anzeljg> what do you think?
+08:26:20 <mingard> would be nice if the admin could configure the fields that are available - not everyone using it will have an occupation/industry and not everyone will be applying for a job ...
+08:26:23 <anitsirk> looking at the bug description and the issue want to solve, i think it's still too specific for core because not all mahara sites will require these labels.
+08:26:29 <anitsirk> europass is only used in europe...
+08:26:42 <aarowlaptop> Right, so this would be the Content -> Profile -> General tab
+08:26:50 <anzeljg> yes
+08:26:52 <anitsirk> a configurable option would be better. that makes it more difficult for the export and import, but it is more adaptable.
+08:27:04 <mingard> those do look like quite portable fields though - not europass specific by any means
+08:27:28 <robertl> configurable field via admin would be best
+08:27:30 <aarowlaptop> Do those fields make more sense under Profile, or under Resume?
+08:27:35 <anzeljg> anitsirk: so you're saying that it should be configure by admin, which fields to show (including occupation/industry)?
+08:27:40 <anitsirk> but the job references are not applicable to young school students.
+08:27:59 <anitsirk> anzeljg: yes. maybe even institution admin if you have a multi-tennanted mahara. but definitely site admin.
+08:28:31 <robertl> same with the 'messaging' tab I recon
+08:28:41 <mingard> hmm, what should happen on import if those fields are configurable?
+08:28:43 <anzeljg> aarowtop: if they are moved under resume, then we should move the entire Gerenal section i think
+08:28:58 <anitsirk> we have nursing associations that need completely different fields. the ones from europass are not applicable to them. thus, we'd always need a config option.
+08:29:07 <aarowlaptop> I suppose you're right about that, anzeljg
+08:29:41 <robertl> the configuration could just be for display/not display so that import still populates the data
+08:29:45 <anzeljg> I'm not sure about messaging section though. I think it sould stay under Profile
+08:30:01 <aarowlaptop> Yeah, Messaging makes more sense under Profile
+08:30:08 <anitsirk> i would only move the general tab (and rename it) to the resume. not the messaging.
+08:30:25 <anzeljg> robertl: we are talking to dsplay/not display each field or whole section?
+08:30:31 <mingard> it would make sense to me to move the general tab to resume, but adding another tab there would be pushing it (might require some extra stuff for accessibility)
+08:30:32 <aarowlaptop> I agree with robertl, one thing we could do here is add artefact types for the Europass fields, and then add some checkboxes under the artefact configuration to allow the admin to show/hide them
+08:30:55 <robertl> each field - like what aarowlaptop just said
+08:31:15 <anitsirk> mingard: we could revamp the first resume tab with the cover letter and some general info and include the other info there.
+08:31:17 <aarowlaptop> In the long run, we need to make it possible for the admin to actually define new fields... but that would be a bigger effort
+08:31:58 <robertl> and import to create the fields if leap2a has them in
+08:32:12 <robertl> mayb
+08:32:13 <robertl> e
+08:32:17 <mingard> anitsirk: ok, I think that approach would work better
+08:32:21 <aarowlaptop> Yeah, the import/export side of fully configurable fields would be the tricky part
+08:32:36 <aarowlaptop> oh, and supporting multiple languages
+08:32:44 <anzeljg> the complicated part to be exact ;)
+08:33:05 <aarowlaptop> but, for fields where it's just show/hide, that's not too tough
+08:33:16 <anzeljg> agree
+08:34:42 <mingard> also agreed - thinking about fully configurable fields, it might work just having an option to remap fields in your old profile into the ones in your new one, although it's more work for the users
+08:34:51 <anitsirk> #idea move the "General" tab from "Profile" to the "Resume" as the fields apply there more readily.
+08:34:58 <anzeljg> i'll try to make this then... to move general section from Profile to Resume and as anitsirk pointed out, under Resume's first tabe with coverletter as addtional fieldset (with admin configuration)
+08:35:36 <anitsirk> #idea Offer more fields and not only Occupation and Industry as these don't apply for everyone. However, since we'll always have people not needing fields, the admin should be able to hide certain fields that don't apply.
+08:35:44 <aarowlaptop> sounds good
+08:36:16 <anzeljg> wouldn't it be better to have those fileds under employment and education, I think they belong there...
+08:36:56 <anitsirk> true
+08:36:58 <anzeljg> and name them something like "Education/Employment status"
+08:37:14 <anitsirk> is it always a status?
+08:37:32 <anzeljg> Hmm...
+08:37:48 <anitsirk> i guess it depends on what field names will be possible.
+08:37:58 <anzeljg> what should these fileds be called then?
+08:37:59 <mingard> seems like they're pretty much another entry in the education and/or employment sections, albeit one that you would want to be particularly visible
+08:38:09 <anitsirk> so far we have the current mahara ones and the europass ones. we could think of others that might apply and add them in esp. if admin can hide them.
+08:38:24 <aarowlaptop> Well, when your resume is displayed to people, it's in a Page
+08:38:28 <anzeljg> so they should be placed at the top without collapsible fieldset?
+08:38:46 <anitsirk> i wouldn't place them at the top. that list can get quite long.
+08:39:16 <anzeljg> so the remaining option is at the bottom?
+08:39:48 <aarowlaptop> in regards to mingard's comment about these being visible, which tab they're on doesn't really affect their visibility on a Page. It just affects how the user finds them when entering the data into their own Content section
+08:40:37 <aarowlaptop> I guess we do have to decide, when you do the "my whole resume" block, where in the sequence of the block they should go
+08:41:19 <mingard> I meant they seem like they would be covered by an entry in the "Employment history" or "Education history" section - but one that you would want to be highlighted in some way
+08:41:33 <anzeljg> between profile and education/emplyment history with the opition for users to not show that at all?
+08:42:05 <anitsirk> individual fields from there need to be selectable like whether you want to show your first name, last name, email address etc.
+08:42:32 <mingard> wasn't there a debate about which resume blocktypes are actually useful/necessary? but yes, displaying them above education/employment history would make the most sense to me
+08:43:28 <anzeljg> they would be artefacts as they are now. they have to be selectable on individual basis, but grouped somehow at the same time - to be displayed together...
+08:45:27 <anitsirk> #info when moving the "General" fields to the resume, they would be artefacts as they are now. they have to be selectable on individual basis, but grouped somehow at the same time - to be displayed together...
+08:45:34 <anitsirk> sounds about right to me.
+08:46:03 <anzeljg> ok, then i'll try to implement this... when is feature freeze date?
+08:46:18 <anitsirk> first week of feb. that was going to be my other business ;-)
+08:46:25 <anzeljg> ok
+08:46:27 <anzeljg> ;)
+08:46:46 <anzeljg> anything else for that topic?
+08:47:22 <aarowlaptop> not from me
+08:48:01 <anzeljg> #topic Next meeting and chair
+08:48:29 <anzeljg> How does march 6th sound? at 20utc?
+08:49:05 <anitsirk> i won't be available.
+08:49:33 <anzeljg> end of february then?
+08:50:33 <anitsirk> anzeljg: the moodle//mahara//moot is on in the last week of february. will be difficult to get those folks online then as the sessions start quite early.
+08:50:47 <anzeljg> anitsirk thanks
+08:50:49 <anitsirk> the german one that is.
+08:51:10 <anzeljg> what about february 20th?
+08:51:29 <anitsirk> sounds good to me.
+08:51:34 <aarowlaptop> works for me
+08:51:54 <mingard> and for me
+08:52:22 <anzeljg> anybody else?
+08:52:25 <robertl> sounds fine to me
+08:52:47 <anitsirk> same time same place so dobedobedoh can attend as well?
+08:53:16 <anitsirk> oh wait. 20 utc doesn't work for dobedobedoh
+08:53:16 <tobiasz> february 20th doesn't work for me but I can read the log/minutes
+08:53:32 <anitsirk> any day better for you during that week, tobiasz ?
+08:54:06 <tobiasz> actually just friday 21
+08:54:42 <anzeljg> 20 UTC or 8 UTC again?
+08:54:51 <anzeljg> 8 UTC doesn't work for me...
+08:55:02 <anzeljg> on friday 21 I mean...
+08:55:44 <anzeljg> anitsirk: when will moodle//mahara//moot actually start
+08:55:53 <anitsirk> 25 feb
+08:56:04 <tobiasz> for me both hours are fine
+08:56:20 <anitsirk> either works for me either day.
+08:56:28 <anzeljg> do we have a lot of things to talk about or can we push next developer meeting to the end of march?
+08:56:54 <anitsirk> i'd be OK with end of march.
+08:57:23 <anitsirk> aarowlaptop and robertl_ and rkabalin and dobedobedoh and mingard ?
+08:57:27 <robertl> it would be good to have meeting before next release - so late march should be fine
+08:57:30 <anitsirk> and tobiasz ?
+08:57:36 <anzeljg> what about march 20?
+08:57:42 <aarowlaptop> sure
+08:57:45 <mingard> should be fine for me
+08:57:46 <anitsirk> anzeljg: no.
+08:57:47 <tobiasz> march is fine with me
+08:57:53 <anitsirk> that's our mahara hui conference day.
+08:57:57 <anitsirk> no time then. ;-)
+08:58:04 <anzeljg> march 27?
+08:58:05 <anitsirk> march 19-21 are taken.
+08:58:17 <anitsirk> 27th sounds good.
+08:58:32 <anzeljg> is it ok for everybody?
+08:58:35 <mingard> yep fine by me
+08:58:47 <robertl> sounds good to me
+08:59:02 <tobiasz> 27th of march fine with me
+08:59:15 <anitsirk> 8utc would be better for dobedobedoh as it would be afternoon instead of middle of the night
+08:59:35 <anzeljg> OK, so again 8 tuc?
+08:59:41 <anzeljg> tuc = utc, sorry
+08:59:51 <anitsirk> fine by me
+09:00:15 <mingard> and me
+09:00:17 <tobiasz> and me
+09:00:30 <robertl> me also
+09:00:31 <anzeljg> who would like to chair it?
+09:01:14 <anitsirk> #info the 31st Mahara Developer Meeting will take place on 27 March 2014 at 8:00 UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=31st+Mahara+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140327T08
+09:01:20 <anitsirk> anzeljg: i can
+09:01:30 <anzeljg> anitsirk thanks
+09:01:39 <anzeljg> you've stoled my line though...
+09:01:48 <anzeljg> i was preparing that info line ;)
+09:01:51 <anitsirk> #info anitsirk will chair the 31st Mahara Developer Meeting.
+09:02:09 <anitsirk> sorry, anzeljg . i thought to help out as you'll need to leave soon.
+09:02:28 <anzeljg> 10 UTC... that's one hour away, but thanks
+09:02:47 <anitsirk> oh 10 utc.
+09:03:00 <anitsirk> we'll be done well before then. ;-)
+09:03:09 <anzeljg> i know now... ;)
+09:03:20 <anzeljg> #topic Any other business
+09:03:26 <anitsirk> i have 2
+09:03:33 <anzeljg> anybody else?
+09:03:43 <mingard> I'll give a quick accessibility update
+09:04:05 <anzeljg> anitsirk the stage is yours...
+09:04:10 <tobiasz> I'd like to ask if there is any news about the messenger changes
+09:04:10 <anitsirk> #info Feature freeze is in the first full week of February, 3-9 February 2014. See https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/6MonthlyCycle
+09:04:10 <anitsirk> We will do our best to include any features submitted by then in the 1.9 release, but if it turns out that a feature needs a lot of reworking, we might exclude it from the 1.9 release even if it was submitted on time to avoid regressions or the introduction of bugs and getting behind with the release. Our releases are timed and thus, it would get into the next release, which would be October 2014.
+09:04:45 <anitsirk> tobiasz: i think that anzeljg is working on that with the social media buttons / profiles.
+09:04:53 <anzeljg> yep
+09:04:57 <mingard> is there an actual date for feature freeze or is it just the end of that week?
+09:05:05 <anitsirk> mingard: it's in that week.
+09:05:14 <anitsirk> usually either thursday or friday.
+09:05:16 <tobiasz> ok, thanks for the info
+09:05:25 <anitsirk> we leave it a bit vague in case someone needs one more day. ;-)
+09:05:33 <anzeljg> tobiasz: have a look at https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2936/
+09:05:35 <mingard> I see
+09:06:03 <anitsirk> any other questions for the feature freeze?
+09:06:14 <anzeljg> not from me
+09:06:53 <anzeljg> anitsirk continu with next AOB
+09:07:04 <anitsirk> #info the first mahara conference in the southern hemisphere will take place in Wellington on 19 and 20 March 2014 followed by a one-day hackfest. Mahara Hui welcomes everyone to New Zealand. Hopefully, some of you can make it. :-)
+09:07:20 <anitsirk> #link https://maharahui.org.nz
+09:07:38 <anzeljg> sorry i can't make it. i've always wanted to visit NZ. someday perhaps...
+09:07:55 <anitsirk> maybe another time, anzeljg
+09:08:03 <anzeljg> hopefully
+09:08:26 <anitsirk> that's it from me.
+09:08:43 <anzeljg> mingard you said you have AOB?
+09:09:11 <mingard> yes, I'll just mention how accessibility work is progressing
+09:09:20 <anzeljg> great!
+09:10:16 <mingard> in 1.8 accessibility is pretty broken with regards to editing and administration, but thankfully most of those issues were easy to fix and there are already patches merged
+09:11:09 <anitsirk> #info currently, accessibility is not great for editing and administration, but thankfully most of those issues were easy to fix and there are already patches merged for 1.9.
+09:11:38 <mingard> I'm working on some of the harder stuff (like getting a keyboard-accessible version of the drag-and-drop page editor working) at the moment so Mahara should be fully compliant with WCAG 2.0 level AA (and therefore the accessibility standards of most countries and administrations) in 1.9
+09:11:57 <anzeljg> woohoo
+09:12:10 <anitsirk> #info mingard is working on some of the harder stuff (like getting a keyboard-accessible version of the drag-and-drop page editor working) at the moment so Mahara should be fully compliant with WCAG 2.0 level AA (and therefore the accessibility standards of most countries and administrations) in 1.9
+09:12:41 <mingard> as you've probably seen in the newsletter, Julius Serrano (also at Catalyst) and I have made put a summary of the current status on the wiki, and there's a blueprint on Launchpad to track the current status
+09:12:42 <anitsirk> if you know of a file browser / explorer that is particularly keyboard accessible, please let mingard know.
+09:12:48 <mingard> yes please!
+09:13:08 <robertl> It's been great learning more about accessibility via reviewing the patches
+09:13:14 <aarowlaptop> oh, that's why you were sent him that page with the list of filebrowsers
+09:13:28 <anitsirk> unfortunately, it's not mentioned too frequently whether they are accessible or not
+09:13:29 <anitsirk> yup
+09:13:53 <mingard> yeah, not much luck there I'm afraid ... at least not with Orca, I might try a few of the better ones with Windows to see if the screen readers there are any better
+09:13:59 <anitsirk> we are also planning on having a check list / cheat sheet on the wiki for developers to ensure that future patches / features are accessible from the start
+09:14:29 <aarowlaptop> yeah, that's a good idea
+09:14:31 <anzeljg> that is great and will be helpful
+09:14:43 <mingard> yes, that should be available pretty soon
+09:14:56 <anitsirk> #info accessibility will stay a continued focus and there will be information available on the wiki for developers to ensure that basic accessibility guidelines are followed when fixing bugs and creating new features
+09:14:57 <anzeljg> #idea the plan is to have a check list / cheat sheet on the wiki for developers to ensure that future patches / features are accessible from the start
+09:15:06 <anzeljg> #undo
+09:15:06 <maharameet> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Idea object at 0x2cd7850>
+09:15:46 <anzeljg> anything elae?
+09:15:51 <anitsirk> mingard and julius serrano (our accessibility expert) have been doing awesome work since the beginning of december to bring us up to speed and compliance.
+09:16:11 <mingard> happy to help, it's been really interesting :)
+09:16:45 <anitsirk> :-)
+09:16:53 <anitsirk> anzeljg: nothing more from me
+09:17:06 <mingard> that's all I have to say, unless anyone has questions
+09:17:12 <anzeljg> another *not so serious question*. After 1.9 will there be 1.10 or 2.0?
+09:17:22 <anzeljg> :)
+09:17:24 <anitsirk> anzeljg: i'm thinking of 1.10.
+09:17:32 <aarowlaptop> Not the first one to ask that question ;)
+09:17:34 <anitsirk> unless we revamp mahara entirely ;-)
+09:17:57 <anitsirk> but maybe we should jsut go with full numbers: 8, 9, 10...
+09:18:06 <aarowlaptop> yep, that's the current plan. Go to 1.10 on the next release, unless we decide to bite the bullet and do a big revamp
+09:18:13 <anzeljg> like java?
+09:18:30 <mingard> i'm curious whether we could start a 2.0 branch or something - would be cool to have a revamp at some point in the future
+09:18:35 <mingard> although that might not be the best way about it
+09:18:40 <anitsirk> firefox and chrome and others do that. or have 13.04 and 13.10 like ubuntu
+09:18:48 <aarowlaptop> Yeah, more and more lately I've been thinking a 2.0 might be in order
+09:20:08 <anzeljg> so basically it isn't decided yet...
+09:20:12 <aarowlaptop> :)
+09:20:17 <anzeljg> anything else? anybody?
+09:20:20 <aarowlaptop> well, 6 months to figure it out
+09:20:22 <anitsirk> nope
+09:20:22 <tobiasz> I wanted to ask about the messages-to-multiple recipients patch that I commited in november, that ones not included in anzeljgs work, is it?
+09:20:42 <anitsirk> no. that's different
+09:20:56 <aarowlaptop> yes, that's separate. I've been meaning to review it for quite some time now
+09:21:05 <aarowlaptop> maybe someone else should take a look at it since I haven't been able to get to it
+09:21:54 <anitsirk> aarowlaptop:  i think you wanted to reveiw it also looking at the solution that angela has been talking about to see if some of that should go in / be merged.
+09:22:03 <anitsirk> reveiw -> review
+09:22:08 <aarowlaptop> Well, there's that aspect to it as well
+09:22:50 <anitsirk> it would be good if you could take a look though i know you are stretched and robertl won't be available either over the next two weeks.
+09:22:55 <aarowlaptop> indeed
+09:22:56 <tobiasz> I'd actually be more interested on comments on a feature-level first, before talking about actual code
+09:22:56 <robertl> I can take a look at it tomorrow - do a quick review to see if there are big problems
+09:23:06 <aarowlaptop> thanks robertl
+09:23:13 <tobiasz> ok, thanks
+09:23:22 <aarowlaptop> Yeah, that's probably the best approach, especially since it's a rather large patch
+09:23:34 <robertl> right, I can look it from that angle
+09:23:41 <aarowlaptop> in terms of lines of code
+09:24:02 <aarowlaptop> I mean, it's a patch with a lot of lines of code. So, better to look at the functionality first. :)
+09:25:05 <tobiasz> which also makes sense when talking about integrating Angelas work
+09:25:11 <aarowlaptop> yes
+09:26:19 <anzeljg> anything else? otherwise i'll end this meeting...
+09:26:21 <tobiasz> ok, another short question about the patch for the watchlist notification, should I do anything to get another review?
+09:26:40 <tobiasz> https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2491/
+09:27:01 <anitsirk> tobiasz: which one is the active one? https://reviews.mahara.org/#/q/owner:%22Tobias+Zeuch%22+status:open,n,z
+09:27:19 <anitsirk> oh sorry. never mind.
+09:27:23 <anitsirk> there is only one.
+09:27:32 <anitsirk> a rebase would probably be good.
+09:28:02 <tobiasz> ok, I'll give it a try
+09:28:10 <robertl> yep - rebase the patch and I'll tryand look at that one too
+09:28:16 <tobiasz> ok, thanks
+09:28:21 <aarowlaptop> Probably the patch just got lost amidst all the others. If we don't respond, feel free to post a comment asking if anyone can take a look at it again. :)
+09:28:38 <anitsirk> robertl: that would be a good one for stevens to verify
+09:28:43 <tobiasz> post the comment in gerrit that is?
+09:28:52 <robertl> anitsirk, good idea
+09:29:07 <aarowlaptop> Yeah, on the patch is a good place, or here on IRC or the forum
+09:29:17 <tobiasz> ok, thanks
+09:30:04 <tobiasz> ok, that's it for me
+09:30:16 <anzeljg> if that's all...
+09:30:38 <anzeljg> #endmeeting
+ diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-01-23-08.04.log.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-01-23-08.04.log.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..4a885e4f8a623eaaa7a92e8d728c186a61d0d318 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-01-23-08.04.log.txt @@ -0,0 +1,358 @@ +08:04:33 #startmeeting +08:04:33 Meeting started Thu Jan 23 08:04:33 2014 UTC. The chair is anzeljg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. +08:04:33 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. +08:04:33 I am here +08:04:35 anzeljg: if i don't have moderator rights, i can't end the meeting ;-) +08:04:37 Please introduce yourselves using #info command, so your introduction will be shown in meeting minutes +08:04:45 #info anzeljg is Gregor Anzelj, developer and translator from Gimnazija Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia +08:04:50 #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:05:06 #info dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols, Moodle HQ, Perth, AU +08:05:13 #info mingard is Jono Mingard, intern at Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:05:31 #info robertl is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:05:38 #info aarowlaptop is Aaron Wells at Catalyst IT in Wellington NZ +08:06:00 anybody else? +08:06:15 mingard and NameLess-exe were here just a few minutes ago +08:06:23 huh? +08:06:36 NameLess-exe: can you please introduce yourself for the meeting minutes? +08:06:45 oh ok... +08:06:52 #info NameLess-exe is Leo Xiong, 2014 Catalyst OSA student, Hamilton, NZ +08:07:03 OSA = Open Source Academy +08:07:17 that's everybody then... +08:07:20 #topic Items from last meeting: dajan to gather some information from tutors and ePortfolio assessors to find out their needs in this area +08:07:28 he was one of the three students who improved Mahara last week by fixing bugs. +08:07:41 great. +08:07:57 anzeljg: have you heard from dajan? +08:07:57 back to the topic... +08:08:01 dajan informed me that he would not be able to attend the meeting (family issues). He says hi to all of you... +08:08:17 so moving to next topic... +08:08:29 #topic Items from last meeting: sonn will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1. +08:08:42 anybody heard anything from sonn? +08:08:46 #chair +08:09:02 aarowlaptop: do you have an update? +08:09:04 anzeljg: Can you run #chair please? I think I've added anitsirk as a chair +08:09:12 #chair +08:09:12 Current chairs: anitsirk anzeljg +08:09:18 Hm, I seem to recall that he did start looking into that +08:09:21 thanx dobedobedoh +08:09:21 thank you, dobedobedoh +08:09:25 :) +08:09:26 but I don't recall that he reached a conclusion +08:09:48 ok. let's put it on the todo list for next meeting then. +08:10:38 #action somebody should look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1 +08:10:44 ok then... +08:10:47 moving on +08:10:49 nah. let's leave it with sonn. +08:10:57 #undo +08:10:57 Removing item from minutes: +08:11:09 #action sonn will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1 +08:11:13 :) +08:11:29 #topic Status of Leap2a import (anzeljg) +08:11:58 this came up when I was coding support for user's social profile addresses +08:11:58 hi rkabalin +08:12:03 hi rkabalin +08:12:30 I've successfuly coded the export, but then I realized that Leap2a import isn't working. +08:12:35 what is the status on that? +08:12:36 .. +08:12:50 individual user leap2a import? +08:12:54 yes +08:13:04 It should be working. We tested it quite a bit before the 1.8.0 release +08:13:20 scenario: user eports his/her stuff and tries to import that back (in same site or another site) +08:13:39 it wasn't working for me +08:13:40 Yep, that's the scenario I tested. Haven't tried it lately, but I could give it a try on master.dev.mahara.org right now +08:13:41 does the content have the correct tags or whatever leap2a needs? +08:14:06 hi tobiasz +08:14:13 I could try this one more time and send any error or debug messages if there will be any (but that will happen after the meeting) +08:14:34 anzeljg: is that related to your functionality or in general? +08:14:34 i believe the tags are correct +08:14:36 #info tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany +08:14:58 anitsirk: first i've tried that with my functionallity and it wasn't working +08:15:17 Hm, it does seem to be timing out when I try it on master.dev.mahara.org. Maybe there was a regression at some point +08:15:23 then I've tried that without functionality on clean user account and different mahara instance - no luck +08:15:43 oh wait, it finished +08:15:45 hi tobiasz +08:16:00 hi everybody, sorry for joining late +08:16:14 aarowlaptop: i'll check again and i'll let you know. OK? +08:16:21 thanks +08:16:41 Probably there's something in particular in your export that is triggering an unknown bug +08:16:43 anzeljg: if it doesn't work on your instance, it would be great to get the leap2a file that you are using +08:17:02 Yes, quite often it's most handy to have the actual leap2a file that's failing to import +08:17:03 anitsirk: ok, will attach that too +08:17:26 one more question related to import/export and user's social profile addresses +08:17:51 those of you who reviewed my code will know what I'm asking +08:18:05 sorry, haven't had time to look at this feature yet. :-( +08:18:27 if I use IDs instead of aervice names, how will those IDs be exported and mapped back at import stage? +08:18:34 hopefully this makes sense... +08:18:40 yes +08:18:44 that does make sense +08:18:51 ;) +08:19:05 we were talking about using a surrogate key integer "ID" column instead of using the service "name" column as the foreign key +08:19:23 aarowlaptop thanks for the explanation +08:19:31 maybe the best thing would be to include the service URL in the leap2a export file? +08:19:43 and then on import, check to see if there's a service in the import site that has the same URL? +08:19:55 well, currently that is included in the export (will send Leap2a file) +08:20:07 so that means, that I mapped it using service URL? +08:20:17 mapped = map +08:20:23 If the URL of each service is required and expected to be unique, that'd be the best way to do it I think +08:20:44 great idea. haven't thought of it :( +08:20:47 thanks +08:20:51 aarowlaptop: do you know how the licenses work? there it's the same issue i think. +08:21:06 oh yeah, there is a similar issue with licenses +08:21:13 a site can have custom licenses +08:21:14 i'll have a look +08:21:28 and then you face some trouble when you import a leap2a with that license into a different site +08:21:41 and the receiving site may not have a license set up that the user had on the old site, but it will still be displayed +08:21:56 yeah, generally speaking the solution to the license problem would be to export enough information to identify an identical but separately created license on the destination site :) +08:21:58 aarowlaptop: you shouldn't. that was the whole point. +08:22:19 i think it's slightly different, but I will check it out. thanks aarowlaptop and anitsirk +08:22:44 I have a feeling it's displayed as just a URL or an ID or something if you import it into a site without that license, but I can't remember exactly what happens ... +08:23:51 i think this topic is finished +08:23:53 moving on? +08:24:13 anzeljg: do you want to set an action point for yourself? +08:24:13 sure +08:24:33 #topic Profile "General" tab should have better options (https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1258067) (anzeljg) +08:25:03 New version of Europass introduecs some new fields which I would really like to include in mahara core. +08:25:23 I've prepared a mockup #link https://twitter.com/anzeljg/status/426225082000629761/photo/1 +08:25:30 what do you think? +08:26:20 would be nice if the admin could configure the fields that are available - not everyone using it will have an occupation/industry and not everyone will be applying for a job ... +08:26:23 looking at the bug description and the issue want to solve, i think it's still too specific for core because not all mahara sites will require these labels. +08:26:29 europass is only used in europe... +08:26:42 Right, so this would be the Content -> Profile -> General tab +08:26:50 yes +08:26:52 a configurable option would be better. that makes it more difficult for the export and import, but it is more adaptable. +08:27:04 those do look like quite portable fields though - not europass specific by any means +08:27:28 configurable field via admin would be best +08:27:30 Do those fields make more sense under Profile, or under Resume? +08:27:35 anitsirk: so you're saying that it should be configure by admin, which fields to show (including occupation/industry)? +08:27:40 but the job references are not applicable to young school students. +08:27:59 anzeljg: yes. maybe even institution admin if you have a multi-tennanted mahara. but definitely site admin. +08:28:31 same with the 'messaging' tab I recon +08:28:41 hmm, what should happen on import if those fields are configurable? +08:28:43 aarowtop: if they are moved under resume, then we should move the entire Gerenal section i think +08:28:58 we have nursing associations that need completely different fields. the ones from europass are not applicable to them. thus, we'd always need a config option. +08:29:07 I suppose you're right about that, anzeljg +08:29:41 the configuration could just be for display/not display so that import still populates the data +08:29:45 I'm not sure about messaging section though. I think it sould stay under Profile +08:30:01 Yeah, Messaging makes more sense under Profile +08:30:08 i would only move the general tab (and rename it) to the resume. not the messaging. +08:30:25 robertl: we are talking to dsplay/not display each field or whole section? +08:30:31 it would make sense to me to move the general tab to resume, but adding another tab there would be pushing it (might require some extra stuff for accessibility) +08:30:32 I agree with robertl, one thing we could do here is add artefact types for the Europass fields, and then add some checkboxes under the artefact configuration to allow the admin to show/hide them +08:30:55 each field - like what aarowlaptop just said +08:31:15 mingard: we could revamp the first resume tab with the cover letter and some general info and include the other info there. +08:31:17 In the long run, we need to make it possible for the admin to actually define new fields... but that would be a bigger effort +08:31:58 and import to create the fields if leap2a has them in +08:32:12 mayb +08:32:13 e +08:32:17 anitsirk: ok, I think that approach would work better +08:32:21 Yeah, the import/export side of fully configurable fields would be the tricky part +08:32:36 oh, and supporting multiple languages +08:32:44 the complicated part to be exact ;) +08:33:05 but, for fields where it's just show/hide, that's not too tough +08:33:16 agree +08:34:42 also agreed - thinking about fully configurable fields, it might work just having an option to remap fields in your old profile into the ones in your new one, although it's more work for the users +08:34:51 #idea move the "General" tab from "Profile" to the "Resume" as the fields apply there more readily. +08:34:58 i'll try to make this then... to move general section from Profile to Resume and as anitsirk pointed out, under Resume's first tabe with coverletter as addtional fieldset (with admin configuration) +08:35:36 #idea Offer more fields and not only Occupation and Industry as these don't apply for everyone. However, since we'll always have people not needing fields, the admin should be able to hide certain fields that don't apply. +08:35:44 sounds good +08:36:16 wouldn't it be better to have those fileds under employment and education, I think they belong there... +08:36:56 true +08:36:58 and name them something like "Education/Employment status" +08:37:14 is it always a status? +08:37:32 Hmm... +08:37:48 i guess it depends on what field names will be possible. +08:37:58 what should these fileds be called then? +08:37:59 seems like they're pretty much another entry in the education and/or employment sections, albeit one that you would want to be particularly visible +08:38:09 so far we have the current mahara ones and the europass ones. we could think of others that might apply and add them in esp. if admin can hide them. +08:38:24 Well, when your resume is displayed to people, it's in a Page +08:38:28 so they should be placed at the top without collapsible fieldset? +08:38:46 i wouldn't place them at the top. that list can get quite long. +08:39:16 so the remaining option is at the bottom? +08:39:48 in regards to mingard's comment about these being visible, which tab they're on doesn't really affect their visibility on a Page. It just affects how the user finds them when entering the data into their own Content section +08:40:37 I guess we do have to decide, when you do the "my whole resume" block, where in the sequence of the block they should go +08:41:19 I meant they seem like they would be covered by an entry in the "Employment history" or "Education history" section - but one that you would want to be highlighted in some way +08:41:33 between profile and education/emplyment history with the opition for users to not show that at all? +08:42:05 individual fields from there need to be selectable like whether you want to show your first name, last name, email address etc. +08:42:32 wasn't there a debate about which resume blocktypes are actually useful/necessary? but yes, displaying them above education/employment history would make the most sense to me +08:43:28 they would be artefacts as they are now. they have to be selectable on individual basis, but grouped somehow at the same time - to be displayed together... +08:45:27 #info when moving the "General" fields to the resume, they would be artefacts as they are now. they have to be selectable on individual basis, but grouped somehow at the same time - to be displayed together... +08:45:34 sounds about right to me. +08:46:03 ok, then i'll try to implement this... when is feature freeze date? +08:46:18 first week of feb. that was going to be my other business ;-) +08:46:25 ok +08:46:27 ;) +08:46:46 anything else for that topic? +08:47:22 not from me +08:48:01 #topic Next meeting and chair +08:48:29 How does march 6th sound? at 20utc? +08:49:05 i won't be available. +08:49:33 end of february then? +08:50:33 anzeljg: the moodle//mahara//moot is on in the last week of february. will be difficult to get those folks online then as the sessions start quite early. +08:50:47 anitsirk thanks +08:50:49 the german one that is. +08:51:10 what about february 20th? +08:51:29 sounds good to me. +08:51:34 works for me +08:51:54 and for me +08:52:22 anybody else? +08:52:25 sounds fine to me +08:52:47 same time same place so dobedobedoh can attend as well? +08:53:16 oh wait. 20 utc doesn't work for dobedobedoh +08:53:16 february 20th doesn't work for me but I can read the log/minutes +08:53:32 any day better for you during that week, tobiasz ? +08:54:06 actually just friday 21 +08:54:42 20 UTC or 8 UTC again? +08:54:51 8 UTC doesn't work for me... +08:55:02 on friday 21 I mean... +08:55:44 anitsirk: when will moodle//mahara//moot actually start +08:55:53 25 feb +08:56:04 for me both hours are fine +08:56:20 either works for me either day. +08:56:28 do we have a lot of things to talk about or can we push next developer meeting to the end of march? +08:56:54 i'd be OK with end of march. +08:57:23 aarowlaptop and robertl_ and rkabalin and dobedobedoh and mingard ? +08:57:27 it would be good to have meeting before next release - so late march should be fine +08:57:30 and tobiasz ? +08:57:36 what about march 20? +08:57:42 sure +08:57:45 should be fine for me +08:57:46 anzeljg: no. +08:57:47 march is fine with me +08:57:53 that's our mahara hui conference day. +08:57:57 no time then. ;-) +08:58:04 march 27? +08:58:05 march 19-21 are taken. +08:58:17 27th sounds good. +08:58:32 is it ok for everybody? +08:58:35 yep fine by me +08:58:47 sounds good to me +08:59:02 27th of march fine with me +08:59:15 8utc would be better for dobedobedoh as it would be afternoon instead of middle of the night +08:59:35 OK, so again 8 tuc? +08:59:41 tuc = utc, sorry +08:59:51 fine by me +09:00:15 and me +09:00:17 and me +09:00:30 me also +09:00:31 who would like to chair it? +09:01:14 #info the 31st Mahara Developer Meeting will take place on 27 March 2014 at 8:00 UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=31st+Mahara+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140327T08 +09:01:20 anzeljg: i can +09:01:30 anitsirk thanks +09:01:39 you've stoled my line though... +09:01:48 i was preparing that info line ;) +09:01:51 #info anitsirk will chair the 31st Mahara Developer Meeting. +09:02:09 sorry, anzeljg . i thought to help out as you'll need to leave soon. +09:02:28 10 UTC... that's one hour away, but thanks +09:02:47 oh 10 utc. +09:03:00 we'll be done well before then. ;-) +09:03:09 i know now... ;) +09:03:20 #topic Any other business +09:03:26 i have 2 +09:03:33 anybody else? +09:03:43 I'll give a quick accessibility update +09:04:05 anitsirk the stage is yours... +09:04:10 I'd like to ask if there is any news about the messenger changes +09:04:10 #info Feature freeze is in the first full week of February, 3-9 February 2014. See https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/6MonthlyCycle +09:04:10 We will do our best to include any features submitted by then in the 1.9 release, but if it turns out that a feature needs a lot of reworking, we might exclude it from the 1.9 release even if it was submitted on time to avoid regressions or the introduction of bugs and getting behind with the release. Our releases are timed and thus, it would get into the next release, which would be October 2014. +09:04:45 tobiasz: i think that anzeljg is working on that with the social media buttons / profiles. +09:04:53 yep +09:04:57 is there an actual date for feature freeze or is it just the end of that week? +09:05:05 mingard: it's in that week. +09:05:14 usually either thursday or friday. +09:05:16 ok, thanks for the info +09:05:25 we leave it a bit vague in case someone needs one more day. ;-) +09:05:33 tobiasz: have a look at https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2936/ +09:05:35 I see +09:06:03 any other questions for the feature freeze? +09:06:14 not from me +09:06:53 anitsirk continu with next AOB +09:07:04 #info the first mahara conference in the southern hemisphere will take place in Wellington on 19 and 20 March 2014 followed by a one-day hackfest. Mahara Hui welcomes everyone to New Zealand. Hopefully, some of you can make it. :-) +09:07:20 #link https://maharahui.org.nz +09:07:38 sorry i can't make it. i've always wanted to visit NZ. someday perhaps... +09:07:55 maybe another time, anzeljg +09:08:03 hopefully +09:08:26 that's it from me. +09:08:43 mingard you said you have AOB? +09:09:11 yes, I'll just mention how accessibility work is progressing +09:09:20 great! +09:10:16 in 1.8 accessibility is pretty broken with regards to editing and administration, but thankfully most of those issues were easy to fix and there are already patches merged +09:11:09 #info currently, accessibility is not great for editing and administration, but thankfully most of those issues were easy to fix and there are already patches merged for 1.9. +09:11:38 I'm working on some of the harder stuff (like getting a keyboard-accessible version of the drag-and-drop page editor working) at the moment so Mahara should be fully compliant with WCAG 2.0 level AA (and therefore the accessibility standards of most countries and administrations) in 1.9 +09:11:57 woohoo +09:12:10 #info mingard is working on some of the harder stuff (like getting a keyboard-accessible version of the drag-and-drop page editor working) at the moment so Mahara should be fully compliant with WCAG 2.0 level AA (and therefore the accessibility standards of most countries and administrations) in 1.9 +09:12:41 as you've probably seen in the newsletter, Julius Serrano (also at Catalyst) and I have made put a summary of the current status on the wiki, and there's a blueprint on Launchpad to track the current status +09:12:42 if you know of a file browser / explorer that is particularly keyboard accessible, please let mingard know. +09:12:48 yes please! +09:13:08 It's been great learning more about accessibility via reviewing the patches +09:13:14 oh, that's why you were sent him that page with the list of filebrowsers +09:13:28 unfortunately, it's not mentioned too frequently whether they are accessible or not +09:13:29 yup +09:13:53 yeah, not much luck there I'm afraid ... at least not with Orca, I might try a few of the better ones with Windows to see if the screen readers there are any better +09:13:59 we are also planning on having a check list / cheat sheet on the wiki for developers to ensure that future patches / features are accessible from the start +09:14:29 yeah, that's a good idea +09:14:31 that is great and will be helpful +09:14:43 yes, that should be available pretty soon +09:14:56 #info accessibility will stay a continued focus and there will be information available on the wiki for developers to ensure that basic accessibility guidelines are followed when fixing bugs and creating new features +09:14:57 #idea the plan is to have a check list / cheat sheet on the wiki for developers to ensure that future patches / features are accessible from the start +09:15:06 #undo +09:15:06 Removing item from minutes: +09:15:46 anything elae? +09:15:51 mingard and julius serrano (our accessibility expert) have been doing awesome work since the beginning of december to bring us up to speed and compliance. +09:16:11 happy to help, it's been really interesting :) +09:16:45 :-) +09:16:53 anzeljg: nothing more from me +09:17:06 that's all I have to say, unless anyone has questions +09:17:12 another *not so serious question*. After 1.9 will there be 1.10 or 2.0? +09:17:22 :) +09:17:24 anzeljg: i'm thinking of 1.10. +09:17:32 Not the first one to ask that question ;) +09:17:34 unless we revamp mahara entirely ;-) +09:17:57 but maybe we should jsut go with full numbers: 8, 9, 10... +09:18:06 yep, that's the current plan. Go to 1.10 on the next release, unless we decide to bite the bullet and do a big revamp +09:18:13 like java? +09:18:30 i'm curious whether we could start a 2.0 branch or something - would be cool to have a revamp at some point in the future +09:18:35 although that might not be the best way about it +09:18:40 firefox and chrome and others do that. or have 13.04 and 13.10 like ubuntu +09:18:48 Yeah, more and more lately I've been thinking a 2.0 might be in order +09:20:08 so basically it isn't decided yet... +09:20:12 :) +09:20:17 anything else? anybody? +09:20:20 well, 6 months to figure it out +09:20:22 nope +09:20:22 I wanted to ask about the messages-to-multiple recipients patch that I commited in november, that ones not included in anzeljgs work, is it? +09:20:42 no. that's different +09:20:56 yes, that's separate. I've been meaning to review it for quite some time now +09:21:05 maybe someone else should take a look at it since I haven't been able to get to it +09:21:54 aarowlaptop: i think you wanted to reveiw it also looking at the solution that angela has been talking about to see if some of that should go in / be merged. +09:22:03 reveiw -> review +09:22:08 Well, there's that aspect to it as well +09:22:50 it would be good if you could take a look though i know you are stretched and robertl won't be available either over the next two weeks. +09:22:55 indeed +09:22:56 I'd actually be more interested on comments on a feature-level first, before talking about actual code +09:22:56 I can take a look at it tomorrow - do a quick review to see if there are big problems +09:23:06 thanks robertl +09:23:13 ok, thanks +09:23:22 Yeah, that's probably the best approach, especially since it's a rather large patch +09:23:34 right, I can look it from that angle +09:23:41 in terms of lines of code +09:24:02 I mean, it's a patch with a lot of lines of code. So, better to look at the functionality first. :) +09:25:05 which also makes sense when talking about integrating Angelas work +09:25:11 yes +09:26:19 anything else? otherwise i'll end this meeting... +09:26:21 ok, another short question about the patch for the watchlist notification, should I do anything to get another review? +09:26:40 https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2491/ +09:27:01 tobiasz: which one is the active one? https://reviews.mahara.org/#/q/owner:%22Tobias+Zeuch%22+status:open,n,z +09:27:19 oh sorry. never mind. +09:27:23 there is only one. +09:27:32 a rebase would probably be good. +09:28:02 ok, I'll give it a try +09:28:10 yep - rebase the patch and I'll tryand look at that one too +09:28:16 ok, thanks +09:28:21 Probably the patch just got lost amidst all the others. If we don't respond, feel free to post a comment asking if anyone can take a look at it again. :) +09:28:38 robertl: that would be a good one for stevens to verify +09:28:43 post the comment in gerrit that is? +09:28:52 anitsirk, good idea +09:29:07 Yeah, on the patch is a good place, or here on IRC or the forum +09:29:17 ok, thanks +09:30:04 ok, that's it for me +09:30:16 if that's all... +09:30:38 #endmeeting \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-01-23-08.04.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-01-23-08.04.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..3ef000f25651f4e494ce6b4d7a17e12c1a1585c7 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-01-23-08.04.txt @@ -0,0 +1,126 @@ +=================== +#mahara-dev Meeting +=================== + + +Meeting started by anzeljg at 08:04:33 UTC. The full logs are available +at +http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-01-23-08.04.log.html +. + + + +Meeting summary +--------------- +* anzeljg is Gregor Anzelj, developer and translator from Gimnazija + Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia (anzeljg, 08:04:45) +* anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ (anitsirk, + 08:04:50) +* dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols, Moodle HQ, Perth, AU (dobedobedoh, + 08:05:06) +* mingard is Jono Mingard, intern at Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ + (mingard, 08:05:13) +* robertl is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ (robertl, + 08:05:31) +* aarowlaptop is Aaron Wells at Catalyst IT in Wellington NZ + (aarowlaptop, 08:05:38) +* NameLess-exe is Leo Xiong, 2014 Catalyst OSA student, Hamilton, NZ + (NameLess-exe, 08:06:52) +* Items from last meeting: dajan to gather some information from tutors + and ePortfolio assessors to find out their needs in this area + (anzeljg, 08:07:20) + +* Items from last meeting: sonn will look at which OS's & versions we'll + be cutting off if we drop support for 5.1. (anzeljg, 08:08:29) + * ACTION: sonn will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off + if we drop support for 5.1 (anzeljg, 08:11:09) + +* Status of Leap2a import (anzeljg) (anzeljg, 08:11:29) + * tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany + (tobiasz, 08:14:36) + +* Profile "General" tab should have better options + (https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1258067) (anzeljg) (anzeljg, + 08:24:33) + * IDEA: move the "General" tab from "Profile" to the "Resume" as the + fields apply there more readily. (anitsirk, 08:34:51) + * IDEA: Offer more fields and not only Occupation and Industry as + these don't apply for everyone. However, since we'll always have + people not needing fields, the admin should be able to hide certain + fields that don't apply. (anitsirk, 08:35:36) + * when moving the "General" fields to the resume, they would be + artefacts as they are now. they have to be selectable on individual + basis, but grouped somehow at the same time - to be displayed + together... (anitsirk, 08:45:27) + +* Next meeting and chair (anzeljg, 08:48:01) + * the 31st Mahara Developer Meeting will take place on 27 March 2014 + at 8:00 UTC: + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=31st+Mahara+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140327T08 + (anitsirk, 09:01:14) + * anitsirk will chair the 31st Mahara Developer Meeting. (anitsirk, + 09:01:51) + +* Any other business (anzeljg, 09:03:20) + * Feature freeze is in the first full week of February, 3-9 February + 2014. See https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/6MonthlyCycle + (anitsirk, 09:04:10) + * the first mahara conference in the southern hemisphere will take + place in Wellington on 19 and 20 March 2014 followed by a one-day + hackfest. Mahara Hui welcomes everyone to New Zealand. Hopefully, + some of you can make it. :-) (anitsirk, 09:07:04) + * LINK: https://maharahui.org.nz (anitsirk, 09:07:20) + * currently, accessibility is not great for editing and + administration, but thankfully most of those issues were easy to fix + and there are already patches merged for 1.9. (anitsirk, 09:11:09) + * mingard is working on some of the harder stuff (like getting a + keyboard-accessible version of the drag-and-drop page editor + working) at the moment so Mahara should be fully compliant with WCAG + 2.0 level AA (and therefore the accessibility standards of most + countries and administrations) in 1.9 (anitsirk, 09:12:10) + * accessibility will stay a continued focus and there will be + information available on the wiki for developers to ensure that + basic accessibility guidelines are followed when fixing bugs and + creating new features (anitsirk, 09:14:56) + * LINK: https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2491/ (tobiasz, 09:26:40) + +Meeting ended at 09:30:38 UTC. + + + + +Action Items +------------ +* sonn will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we + drop support for 5.1 + + + + +Action Items, by person +----------------------- +* **UNASSIGNED** + * sonn will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we + drop support for 5.1 + + + + +People Present (lines said) +--------------------------- +* anzeljg (121) +* anitsirk (101) +* aarowlaptop (55) +* mingard (30) +* tobiasz (21) +* robertl (17) +* maharameet (5) +* dobedobedoh (5) +* NameLess-exe (3) + + + + +Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 + +.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-03-27-08.01.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-03-27-08.01.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..68aacb26ad8094ddb19813175e43219a8262969c --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-03-27-08.01.html @@ -0,0 +1,423 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev Meeting + + + + +

#mahara-dev Meeting

+ +Meeting started by anitsirk at 08:01:48 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Meeting summary

+
    +
  1. +
      +
    1. anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner from Catalyst IT, + Wellington, New Zealand (anitsirk, + 08:01:56)
    2. +
    3. anzeljg is Gregor Anzelj, developer and + translator from Gimnazija Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia (anzeljg, + 08:02:06)
    4. +
    5. robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, + Wellington, NZ (robertl_, + 08:02:13)
    6. +
    7. tobiasz3 is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, + Karlsruhe, Germany (tobiasz3, + 08:02:13)
    8. +
    9. sonn2 is Son Nguyen from Catalyst IT, + Wellington, New Zealand (sonn2, + 08:02:15)
    10. +
    11. mingard is Jono Mingard, student at Victoria + University of Wellington (NZ) and former intern at Catalyst + IT (mingard, + 08:02:23)
    12. +
    13. rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster + University, UK (rkabalin_, + 08:02:36)
    14. +
    +
  2. +
  3. Items from last meeting (anitsirk, 08:03:00) +
      +
    1. aarow_ is Aaron Wells from Catalyst IT in + Wellington, NZ (aarow_, + 08:03:02)
    2. +
    3. sonn2 updated the wiki with information about + databases: + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/System_Administrator%27s_Guide/Requirements#Database_Server + (anitsirk, + 08:04:22)
    4. +
    5. Hi, I'm a Moodle and Mahara developer at + Lancaster University in the UK, working with Ruslan Kabalin + (tonyjbutler, + 08:07:51)
    6. +
    7. dajan - Mahara French Community facilitator and + Mahara translator (dajan, + 08:08:54)
    8. +
    9. IDEA: : start testing + with MariaDB? (anitsirk, + 08:10:08)
    10. +
    11. https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb-vs-mysql-compatibility/ + - list of differences between MariaDB and MySQL (anitsirk, + 08:11:46)
    12. +
    13. IDEA: aarow: it would + make the most sense to just say we support MySQL. MariaDB users + should understand from that statement, that it will also work in + MariaDB (anitsirk, + 08:16:36)
    14. +
    15. AGREED: DB + requirements state that we support MySQL. MariaDB users should + understand from that statement, that it will also work in + MariaDB (anitsirk, + 08:17:47)
    16. +
    17. IDEA: since at least + CentOS still offers no more recent version than 5.1.71, I think we + should continue to support MySQL 5.1 for one more release + cycle (anitsirk, + 08:18:39)
    18. +
    19. AGREED: : Support + MySQL 5.1 until Mahara 1.10 (anitsirk, + 08:19:31)
    20. +
    +
  4. +
  5. Usability (anitsirk, 08:20:35) +
      +
    1. An international Mahara workshop took place in + Ljubljana on 4 March 2014 that included representatives from + Slovenian schools participating in the EUfolio project + http://eufolio.eu (anitsirk, + 08:23:52)
    2. +
    3. Choose internal image in TinyMCE without + attaching it first. (anzeljg, + 08:24:03)
    4. +
    5. https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1038580 + (anzeljg, + 08:24:11)
    6. +
    7. https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1235569 + (anzeljg, + 08:24:18)
    8. +
    9. ACTION: everyone to + look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the Ljubliana + group (anitsirk, + 08:40:04)
    10. +
    11. ACTION: anzeljg to + write forum post / forum posts letting community members know about + the usability improvement suggestions made in Ljubljana (anitsirk, + 08:41:01)
    12. +
    13. Copying of Textboxes should create real + copies. (anzeljg, + 08:41:20)
    14. +
    15. https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 + (anzeljg, + 08:41:25)
    16. +
    +
  6. +
  7. Whitespace changes in patches (anitsirk, 08:42:18) +
      +
    1. IDEA: rkabalin_ + suggests to make a requirement not to introduce whitespaces changes + at the lines that are not modified by the patch. (anitsirk, + 08:44:09)
    2. +
    3. IDEA: arrow_: How about + we just run a formatter, after 1.9 is out, and strip out the + extraneous whitespace from all the old Mahara core files? + (anitsirk, + 08:45:05)
    4. +
    5. the big exception to the whitespace rule is + external libraries (anitsirk, + 08:53:20)
    6. +
    7. IDEA: rkabalin_: have + git strip whitespace changes from users who work with eclipse. + aarow_: an automated formatting script would be a great idea + (anitsirk, + 09:01:22)
    8. +
    9. aarow_: the automated formatting script + wouldn't break git blame, because there's "git blame -w". It might + break Eclipse annotate, which is a graphical equivalent to git + blame... (anitsirk, + 09:02:06)
    10. +
    11. ACTION: aarow_ to see + how many files have a whitespace problem. (anitsirk, + 09:02:49)
    12. +
    13. AGREED: : reintroduce + the requirement for avoiding trailing whitespaces (anitsirk, + 09:03:49)
    14. +
    15. ACTION: rkabalin_ to + update the dev documentation to reintroduce the requirement for + avoiding trailing whitespaces (anitsirk, + 09:04:50)
    16. +
    +
  8. +
  9. Mahara core developer applications (anitsirk, 09:05:19) +
      +
    1. https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/User:Mingard + mingard (anitsirk, + 09:05:23)
    2. +
    3. https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/User:Ybozhko + yuliyabozhko1 (anitsirk, + 09:05:24)
    4. +
    5. https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/Core_Developer_Applications/Ghada_El-Zoghbi + Ghada (anitsirk, + 09:05:25)
    6. +
    7. AGREED: jono mingard + to become an approved mahara core developer. (anitsirk, + 09:18:26)
    8. +
    9. AGREED: yuliyabozhko1 + is to be an approved mahara core developer. (anitsirk, + 09:19:01)
    10. +
    11. AGREED: ghada + el-zoghbi is the 3rd new approved mahara core developer (anitsirk, + 09:19:56)
    12. +
    13. ACTION: aarow_ to + update gerrit and launchpad settings to include the 3 new mahara + core devs. (anitsirk, + 09:20:53)
    14. +
    +
  10. +
  11. Next meeting and chair (anitsirk, 09:22:36) +
      +
    1. AGREED: 32nd Mahara + dev meeting on Thursday, 1 May 2014 at 8:00 UTC: + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=32nd+Mahara+developer+meeting&iso=20140501T08 + (anitsirk, + 09:29:29)
    2. +
    3. rkabalin_ to chair the 32nd Mahara dev + meeting. (anitsirk, + 09:30:59)
    4. +
    +
  12. +
  13. Any other business (anitsirk, 09:31:12) +
      +
    1. anzeljg: I just wanted to ask why the reviews + have stalled on https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2936/ (anitsirk, + 09:32:05)
    2. +
    3. Mahara 1.9RC1 is about to be released. + (anitsirk, + 09:35:33)
    4. +
    5. the booklet plugin + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Plugins/Artefact/Booklet was + presented at Mahara Hui in Wellington last week and found a lot of + interest. (anitsirk, + 09:39:07)
    6. +
    7. https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Plugins/Artefact/Booklet + (anitsirk, + 09:39:09)
    8. +
    9. Maharamoot and Moodlemoot FR 2014 in Paris - + June the 4-6th (anitsirk, + 09:39:58)
    10. +
    11. http://moodlemoot2014.univ-paris3.fr/ + (anitsirk, + 09:41:37)
    12. +
    13. http://moodlemoot2014.univ-paris3.fr/mahara/ + (anitsirk, + 09:41:44)
    14. +
    15. Mahara 1.9RC1 (anitsirk, + 09:41:55)
    16. +
    17. Mahara Hui - conference and now what? + (anitsirk, + 09:45:37)
    18. +
    19. Last week we had our first NZ mahara + conference, Mahara Hui (hui = assembly, gathering in Te Reo Māori). + It consisted of 2 days presentations and 1 day hackfest. + (anitsirk, + 09:46:13)
    20. +
    21. In the mood of sharing, we are going to make + our hui logo available to others to use and others are also welcome + to use “Mahara Hui” as general conference name (anitsirk, + 09:47:08)
    22. +
    23. check out https://maharahui.org.nz to view the + two logos (anitsirk, + 09:48:34)
    24. +
    25. https://maharahui.org.nz + (anitsirk, + 09:48:46)
    26. +
    27. thank you very much for everyone who attended + and congrats again for our newly appointed core devs, mingard, + yuliyabozhko1 and ghada el-zoghbi. (anitsirk, + 09:56:20)
    28. +
    +
  14. +
+

+ + + + +Meeting ended at 09:56:23 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Action items

+
    +
  1. everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the Ljubliana group
  2. +
  3. anzeljg to write forum post / forum posts letting community members know about the usability improvement suggestions made in Ljubljana
  4. +
  5. aarow_ to see how many files have a whitespace problem.
  6. +
  7. rkabalin_ to update the dev documentation to reintroduce the requirement for avoiding trailing whitespaces
  8. +
  9. aarow_ to update gerrit and launchpad settings to include the 3 new mahara core devs.
  10. +
+

+ + + +

Action items, by person

+
    +
  1. aarow_
      +
    1. aarow_ to see how many files have a whitespace problem.
    2. +
    3. aarow_ to update gerrit and launchpad settings to include the 3 new mahara core devs.
    4. +
  2. +
  3. anzeljg
      +
    1. anzeljg to write forum post / forum posts letting community members know about the usability improvement suggestions made in Ljubljana
    2. +
  4. +
  5. rkabalin_
      +
    1. rkabalin_ to update the dev documentation to reintroduce the requirement for avoiding trailing whitespaces
    2. +
  6. +
+

+ + + +

People present (lines said)

+
    +
  1. anitsirk (215)
  2. +
  3. aarow_ (82)
  4. +
  5. anzeljg (64)
  6. +
  7. mingard (64)
  8. +
  9. rkabalin_ (58)
  10. +
  11. robertl_ (46)
  12. +
  13. yuliyabozhko1 (34)
  14. +
  15. sonn2 (26)
  16. +
  17. dajan (21)
  18. +
  19. tobiasz3 (10)
  20. +
  21. tonyjbutler (7)
  22. +
  23. _mingard (5)
  24. +
  25. maharameet` (2)
  26. +
+

+ + + +Generated by MeetBot 0.1.4. + diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-03-27-08.01.log.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-03-27-08.01.log.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..c41ecd821a531dfb79bda689987ca3629ba5cfb8 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-03-27-08.01.log.html @@ -0,0 +1,661 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev log + + + + +
08:01:48 <anitsirk> #startmeeting
+08:01:48 <maharameet`> Meeting started Thu Mar 27 08:01:48 2014 UTC.  The chair is anitsirk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
+08:01:48 <maharameet`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
+08:01:55 <anitsirk> Hello and welcome to the 31st Mahara developer meeting.
+08:01:56 <anitsirk> Please introduce yourself by prefacing your introduction with the #info tag.
+08:01:56 <anitsirk> #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner from Catalyst IT, Wellington, New Zealand
+08:02:06 <anzeljg> #info anzeljg is Gregor Anzelj, developer and translator from Gimnazija Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia
+08:02:13 <robertl_> #info robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:02:13 <tobiasz3> #info tobiasz3 is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany
+08:02:15 <anitsirk> If you have a long statement, please use .. in a line by itself to indicate that you are finished.
+08:02:15 <sonn2> #info sonn2 is Son Nguyen from Catalyst IT, Wellington, New Zealand
+08:02:23 <mingard> #info mingard is Jono Mingard, student at Victoria University of Wellington (NZ) and former intern at Catalyst IT
+08:02:36 <rkabalin_> #info rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, UK
+08:02:45 <yuliyabozhko1> #yuliya is Yuliya Bozhko from Totara Learning Solutions, Wellington NZ
+08:02:59 <anitsirk> i think that’s all.
+08:03:00 <anitsirk> #topic Items from last meeting
+08:03:01 <anitsirk> sonn2 will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for MySQL 5.1
+08:03:02 <aarow_> #info aarow_ is Aaron Wells from Catalyst IT in Wellington, NZ
+08:03:22 <anitsirk> sonn2. over to you
+08:03:27 <sonn2> I've just update the wiki page https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/System_Administrator%27s_Guide/Requirements#Database_Server
+08:03:56 <sonn2> There are 2 major distribution currently support Mysql 5.1
+08:04:08 <sonn2> RedHat and CentOS
+08:04:22 <anitsirk> #info sonn2 updated the wiki with information about databases: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/System_Administrator%27s_Guide/Requirements#Database_Server
+08:04:59 <aarow_> I'm confused, from that table it looks like they are all 5.1.x
+08:05:09 <mingard> those are the versions with 5.1.x
+08:05:12 <anzeljg> aarow_: +1
+08:05:14 <anitsirk> sonn2: it would be great if you added whether any of the distribution versions that you list in the first table are still supported by the projects
+08:05:19 <aarow_> oh, I see, it's a range for most of them
+08:05:20 <sonn2> There are old distribution
+08:05:22 <mingard> for example ubuntu has 5.3.x (I think) as of 12.04
+08:05:40 <aarow_> hm, but that range is still mostly 5.1.x
+08:05:51 <anitsirk> we really need to know distros are still supported. it’s not clear from the table
+08:06:14 <anitsirk> * know which distros *
+08:06:35 <anitsirk> hello tonyjbutler. could you please introduce yourself starting your line with #info ?
+08:07:04 <sonn2> Currently only RedHat and CentOS still support 5.5
+08:07:06 <sonn2> 5.1
+08:07:08 <rkabalin_> I think there should be a section about databases in general and subsection about 5.1
+08:07:50 <anitsirk> hello dajan. can you please introduce yourself starting your line with #info ?
+08:07:51 <tonyjbutler> #info Hi, I'm a Moodle and Mahara developer at Lancaster University in the UK, working with Ruslan Kabalin
+08:07:51 <aarow_> sonn2: So basically, RedHat and CentOS are the only 2 distros where the highest MySQL version available, is 5.1?
+08:08:21 <aarow_> in the current release of that distro
+08:08:29 <robertl_> when is the MariaDB stuff kicking in?
+08:08:32 <sonn2> they support lowest MySQL version
+08:08:54 <dajan> #info dajan - Mahara French Community facilitator and Mahara translator
+08:09:04 <aarow_> right, I think I understand the table now
+08:09:28 <mingard> is it worth testing with MariaDB? they claim to be a drop-in replacement so I guess incompatibility is their problem, but still ...
+08:10:03 <sonn2> Yes, IMO, we should support for MariaDB 5.5 +
+08:10:08 <anitsirk> #idea: start testing with MariaDB?
+08:10:44 <robertl_> +1 to testing with MariaDB
+08:11:22 <aarow_> there's a list of differences: https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb-vs-mysql-compatibility/
+08:11:46 <anitsirk> #link https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb-vs-mysql-compatibility/ - list of differences between MariaDB and MySQL
+08:12:15 <aarow_> skimming through, it doesn't look like anything that will affect us, but it wouldn't hurt to test
+08:12:35 <anitsirk> should we start looking into MariaDB then right after the 1.9 release?
+08:12:42 <mingard> note ubuntu 14.04 will still package mysql and has no plans to switch
+08:14:10 <sonn2> note: Debian don't have MariaDB package
+08:14:27 <aarow_> I think just, if someone wants to try Mahara in MariaDB, that should be enough. Since it is 99.9% compatible and aims to be 100% compatible with standard MySQL we don't really need to go out of our way to test against it regularly
+08:14:29 <rkabalin_> I think MySQL or MariaDB could both stay as requirement, assuming they are really identical in a sense that no changes are required on Mahara side for one of them.
+08:15:08 <robertl_> so it should be ok to say we support it
+08:15:09 <anitsirk> but would we list mariadb as supported db or just say: it should work?
+08:15:27 <anitsirk> if we aren’t testing for anything on it, i’d hesitate to say we support it.
+08:15:31 <rkabalin_> Debian Jessie (testing) has it
+08:15:32 <aarow_> yep
+08:15:40 <aarow_> it would make the most sense to just say we support MySQL
+08:16:09 <aarow_> MariaDB users should understand from that statement, that it will also work in MariaDB
+08:16:18 <robertl_> fair enough
+08:16:36 <anitsirk> #idea aarow: it would make the most sense to just say we support MySQL. MariaDB users should understand from that statement, that it will also work in MariaDB
+08:16:43 <anitsirk> do others agree?
+08:16:50 <rkabalin_> #agree
+08:16:50 <mingard> I would go with that until it's the default in more distros
+08:16:55 <sonn2> #agree
+08:16:55 <mingard> #agree
+08:16:57 <tobiasz3> #agree
+08:16:59 <yuliyabozhko1> #agree
+08:17:01 <robertl_> #agree
+08:17:01 <tonyjbutler> Sound good
+08:17:38 <anzeljg> #agree
+08:17:47 <anitsirk> #agreed DB requirements state that we support MySQL. MariaDB users should understand from that statement, that it will also work in MariaDB
+08:17:59 <anitsirk> do we still need to talk about which versions of mysql to support?
+08:18:10 <aarow_> Going back to the original topic of MySQL 5.1, since at least CentOS still offers no more recent version than 5.1.71, I think we should continue to support MySQL 5.1 for one more release cycle
+08:18:32 <robertl_> I agree with aarow_
+08:18:39 <anitsirk> #idea since at least CentOS still offers no more recent version than 5.1.71, I think we should continue to support MySQL 5.1 for one more release cycle
+08:18:53 <anitsirk> do others agree as well?
+08:19:02 <anzeljg> +1
+08:19:04 <rkabalin_> #agree
+08:19:06 <tonyjbutler> #agree
+08:19:09 <mingard> #agree
+08:19:09 <tobiasz3> #agree
+08:19:13 <yuliyabozhko1> #agree
+08:19:14 <anzeljg> #agree
+08:19:28 <sonn2> #agree
+08:19:31 <anitsirk> #agreed: Support MySQL 5.1 until Mahara 1.10
+08:19:41 <anitsirk> does that cover it for this topic?
+08:19:52 <aarow_> I think so
+08:20:18 <anitsirk> rkabalin_: i’ll move anzeljg’s topic up (haven’t forgotten about you), but he needs to leave in 10 min.
+08:20:30 <rkabalin_> that is fine
+08:20:35 <anitsirk> #topic Usability
+08:20:36 <anitsirk> I've discussed with anzeljg via email that this will be a more general topic around usability and not look at each individual item as further discussions around them are needed.
+08:20:36 <anitsirk> anzeljg: Thank you for adding links to existing bug reports and for creating new ones. Did you already start looking into some of them specifically? Or do you have a priority list?
+08:21:01 <anitsirk> now also since he only has 10 min. to discuss with us, we should keep it to that time to get the discussion started.
+08:21:08 <anzeljg> no priority list, but some introduction is needed, so...
+08:21:25 <anzeljg> and anitsirk it's 70 minutes (the times were in UTC)
+08:21:36 <anitsirk> oh sorry.
+08:21:48 <anitsirk> mixed up my time zones
+08:21:54 <anzeljg> Should I continue anyway?
+08:21:57 <rkabalin_> yep
+08:21:57 <anitsirk> yes, please
+08:22:01 <anzeljg> On March 4th the Mahara international workshop took place in Ljubljana.
+08:22:28 <anzeljg> This was a workshop for Slovenian schools taking part in EUfolio project (#link http://eufolio.eu/).
+08:22:36 <anzeljg> In the project of collaboration between several school from several countries.
+08:22:43 <anzeljg> After this short info I must also add that a part of that workshop there was aslo a developer meeting.
+08:22:51 <anzeljg> At this meeting both sides, Austrian (represented by Klaus Himpsl-Gutermann, Thomas Strasser, Christian Fertl)
+08:22:58 <anzeljg> and Slovenian (represented mainly by myself) exchanged our views on Mahara usability and the troubles faced
+08:23:05 <anzeljg> when using Mahara.
+08:23:12 <anzeljg> A lot of usability issues were already reported by other users and so wishlist items already exist, some
+08:23:19 <anzeljg> issues I couldn't find so I've added new wishlist items.
+08:23:26 <anzeljg> I propose that we go through these items one by one. The issues are described in bug tracker and I'll
+08:23:35 <anzeljg> also post links here. If more explanaion is needed I'll try and explain those issues in more detail.
+08:23:43 <anzeljg> The issues are in no particualr order...
+08:23:44 <anzeljg> ..
+08:23:52 <anitsirk> #info An international Mahara workshop took place in Ljubljana on 4 March 2014 that included representatives from Slovenian schools participating in the EUfolio project http://eufolio.eu
+08:24:03 <anzeljg> #info Choose internal image in TinyMCE without attaching it first.
+08:24:11 <anzeljg> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1038580
+08:24:18 <anzeljg> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1235569
+08:24:26 <anzeljg> Maybe should start with this...
+08:25:02 <mingard> definitely something I've come across and want to see fixed
+08:25:19 <anzeljg> We have also noticed if a user adds an image in textbox and wants to embed that image into a textbox content he/she is unable to do so.
+08:26:12 <anitsirk> anzeljg: can you please file a report for that with the steps that you took? Normally that should work.
+08:26:25 <anzeljg> Ok I'll do that...
+08:26:36 <mingard> for the record, I have a patch to upgrade to tinymce 4.x in gerrit and it seems like in theory the image dialog plugin would be easy to extend to include a mahara file browser
+08:26:45 <mingard> which is what I would like to see as a long-term solution
+08:26:49 <rkabalin_> We came across that one in the past as well, people reported it.
+08:27:02 <aarow_> +1 to what mingard said
+08:27:04 <anzeljg> mingard: great
+08:27:17 <anitsirk> i propose we take a look at the reports until the next meeting as there is quite a bit to read and think about
+08:28:06 <robertl_> with the embedding of the image in the tinymce - what happens when the image is deleted?
+08:28:17 <anitsirk> it would also be good to get some non-devs involved in the discussion. i know that shane from U of Canberra is interested in making usability improvements.
+08:28:46 <mingard> robertl: would be nice if we could replace it with an 'image deleted' placeholder ...
+08:29:07 <aarow_> Well, the browser will do that for you sort of, by showing that "missing or broken image" icon ;)
+08:29:23 <robertl_> indeed :)
+08:29:43 <anitsirk> or there could be a dialogue before deleting the image for good like we have elsewhere.
+08:30:12 <mingard> yeah, but it might be hard to go through the db and delete it in all the places it appears
+08:30:15 <yuliyabozhko1> then you'll need to check if it's used anywhere which might not be easy
+08:30:38 <robertl_> it's just once the link is hardcoded in the html content of a box it is 'lost' to the mahara system
+08:30:41 <anitsirk> mingard: the dialogue only tells you that the image is being used.
+08:31:06 <anitsirk> right. so not like the other artefacts.
+08:31:10 <mingard> so would the user just need to find all the places it's used and delete it from them?
+08:31:16 <aarow_> yeah, if you wanted smarter behavior you'd need to store a record of that image link in addition to just putting an <img> tag in the html
+08:31:49 <yuliyabozhko1> I think moodle does smth like that
+08:32:00 <mingard> could you just grep for the image URL in the text box content? would that be too slow/hard?
+08:33:07 <robertl_> could end up with problems if people manually alter the html code slightly so the grep doesn't pick them up
+08:33:24 <mingard> true. but then it's their fault if the image isn't deleted :P
+08:33:27 <aarow_> my instinct is you'd have reliability and performance issues if you just regexed the stored HTML in the DB
+08:33:38 <robertl_> but it is to us they complain :)
+08:33:53 <anitsirk> does someone want to look into this specifically after we’ve upgraded to tinymce for 1.10?
+08:34:27 <aarow_> well, first things first, would be to just add that tinyMCE button for easier embedding of Mahara images
+08:34:48 <aarow_> once that's in we could look at enhancing it to warn you when you're going to delete an image that's used in pages
+08:35:01 <anzeljg> Maybe it would be also nice to revert the process by not needing to add image as attachement first, but that all images uploaded to user files would be instantly available for content inclusion in tinymce?
+08:35:10 <rkabalin_> sounds like a good plan aarow_
+08:35:12 <aarow_> Yes, that would be better
+08:35:27 <aarow_> same for blogs, actually
+08:36:05 <_mingard> sorry, uni internet >_<
+08:36:12 <anzeljg> Blog entries and textboxes were both mentioned, yes :)
+08:37:03 <robertl_> would you want tinymce to list all image files you've uploaded or just a subsection under say 'images' subdir?
+08:37:26 <_mingard> I would say all image files
+08:37:31 <anitsirk> robertl_: that wouldn’t be good because you may have your images all over your place due to your own organization
+08:37:40 <_mingard> exactly
+08:37:51 <robertl_> fair enough
+08:38:39 <_mingard> it would be cool if there was a generic 'insert' button which could insert images, videos, or other types of files ...
+08:38:57 <anitsirk> shall we say to look into the other things until the next dev meeting and update the enhancement reports with comments and questions?
+08:39:11 <aarow_> sure
+08:39:15 <rkabalin_> anitsirk +1
+08:39:21 <_mingard> +1
+08:39:43 <anitsirk> anzeljg: it would also be good if you wrote a forum post / forum posts if you haven’t already done so. Sorry, haven’t had time to check. people who only read the forums might want to know. some of these also mirror what christian kleinhanss had suggested
+08:40:04 <anitsirk> #action everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the Ljubliana group
+08:40:13 <anzeljg> I haven't. I was planning to do tat after this meeting.
+08:40:21 <anitsirk> sounds great, anzeljg
+08:40:24 <anitsirk> thank you
+08:41:01 <anitsirk> #action anzeljg to write forum post / forum posts letting community members know about the usability improvement suggestions made in Ljubljana
+08:41:07 <anitsirk> shall we move on?
+08:41:20 <anzeljg> #info Copying of Textboxes should create real copies.
+08:41:25 <yuliyabozhko1> yep
+08:41:25 <anzeljg> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390
+08:41:44 <anitsirk> anzeljg: i wouldn’t discuss every topic now. we just agreed to look at all of them until next meeting ;-)
+08:41:51 <anzeljg> ok.
+08:41:53 <anzeljg> sorry
+08:42:18 <anitsirk> #topic Whitespace changes in patches
+08:42:19 <anitsirk> The floor is yours, rkabalin_.
+08:42:24 <rkabalin_> thanks
+08:42:28 <anzeljg> I that case I'm done. I think they are quite well documented...
+08:42:46 <rkabalin_> OK, trailing whitespaces. This has been discussed in the past http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-09-05-08.01.log.html
+08:42:49 <rkabalin_> Basically, they add too much noise in the diffs, make revision difficult, make history navigation more difficult (e.g. if I use gitk, not diff), create first impression of low coding quality for someone who did not come accross mahara before.
+08:42:53 <rkabalin_> I know, there is a way to run "git diff -w" and also an option in revision interface not to show whitespace changes.
+08:42:56 <rkabalin_> But in my opinion, we basically allow to ignore something that can be easily avoided, and it is not even an obstracle that would stop people contributing.
+08:42:59 <rkabalin_> I suggest to make a requirement not to introduce whitespaces changes at the lines that are not modified by the patch.
+08:43:08 <anitsirk> #trailing white spaces have been discussed in http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-09-05-08.01.log.html
+08:44:07 <aarow_> With the tools that I'm using (eclipse and git) it's actually harder to trim out all the extraneous whitespace changes from my change when committing, than to ignore them when diffing
+08:44:08 <tobiasz3> would that requirement be checked by the script when running make push?
+08:44:09 <anitsirk> #idea rkabalin_ suggests to make a requirement not to introduce whitespaces changes at the lines that are not modified by the patch.
+08:44:11 <mingard> mahara does have issues with inconsistent whitespace though ... should these be addressed or just ignored until a patch happens to modify those lines?
+08:44:31 <anitsirk> what about whitespace in third-party plugins?
+08:44:35 <aarow_> How about we just run a formatter, after 1.9 is out, and strip out the extraneous whitespace from all the old Mahara core files?
+08:44:44 <mingard> yes please :)
+08:44:50 <rkabalin_> aarow_ are you sure there is no such setting in Eclipse? Netbeans for instance has it.
+08:44:54 <aarow_> there are some really lengthy, old ones that have whitespace on the end of every line
+08:45:05 <anitsirk> #idea arrow_: How about we just run a formatter, after 1.9 is out, and strip out the extraneous whitespace from all the old Mahara core files?
+08:45:14 <rkabalin_> tobiasz3 It is more like for reviewers to check rather than script I think.
+08:45:17 <aarow_> the problem in Eclipse is that the "Strip whitespace from end of lines" setting strips it from the end of *every* line in the file
+08:46:11 <aarow_> so if I'm editing something like lib/activity.php, and I change one line, Eclipse strips the whitespace from every line, and then it's a hassle for me to do "git add -p", the one git command that *doesn't* have an "ignore whitespace" option, and pick out my one real change
+08:46:25 <rkabalin_> Old lines could remain unchanged until someone touched them.
+08:47:00 <aarow_> if we just ran a scrubbing script one time and cleared out the extraneous whitespace from the old lib files it would make my life a lot easier
+08:47:09 <mingard> seconded - assuming a good enough one exists?
+08:47:10 <rkabalin_> the problem with existing pataches, not old ones, anf if requirement will be enforced, we will gradually eleimiate whitespaces instances in the code.
+08:47:32 <yuliyabozhko1> I thought there was a requirement already :)
+08:47:43 <aarow_> we softened it to a recommendation
+08:47:44 <mingard> there is
+08:47:48 <mingard> (or not)
+08:47:53 <robertl_> there is also the tabs instead of 4 space chars issue too
+08:48:08 <anzeljg> especially in css files
+08:48:16 <aarow_> I agree with enforcing the tab rule ;)
+08:48:18 <tobiasz3> i think it only checks the changed lines, so you cannot introduce new whitespaces
+08:48:19 <mingard> yeah, what if we are editing a file which uses tabs for indenting?
+08:48:21 <yuliyabozhko1> stripping all existing ones will add quite a bit of noise
+08:48:23 <mingard> my tabs are two spaces wide
+08:48:29 <yuliyabozhko1> and will make git blame hard to you
+08:48:31 <yuliyabozhko1> *use
+08:48:37 <mingard> true that
+08:48:37 <rkabalin_> aarow_ stubbing script could be an option, e.g. to run it once after release, but if there is no requirements new instances will be introduced again.
+08:49:05 <mingard> I would be fine with scrubbing and adding more strict whitespace requirements
+08:49:24 <yuliyabozhko1> why can't make push check for that in the lines changed?
+08:50:05 <robertl_> sometimes make push is too picky and one needs to git push to gerrit
+08:50:27 <mingard> I was wondering if there should be a force-push task in make which skips the checks (eg. too strict sql injection ones)
+08:50:34 <robertl_> like when it complains on sql statements with from or join
+08:50:39 <yuliyabozhko1> we have custom codechecker in Totara that does these kind of checks
+08:50:48 <aarow_> that might be a good idea, mingard
+08:51:01 <rkabalin_> mingard force puch is laready there ))
+08:51:06 <aarow_> I just do "git push gerrit HEAD:refs/publish/master", but the syntax is easy to forget
+08:51:10 <rkabalin_> s/puch/push
+08:51:16 <tonyjbutler> I think a one-time scrubbing script followed by a requirement for future commits is the best solution
+08:51:34 <rkabalin_> just do not use make ;)
+08:52:26 <anitsirk> rkabalin_: just make sure to change the instructions on the wiki and it should be fine. then people like me won’t make any mistakes with the new rule ;-)
+08:52:47 <robertl_> I agree with one time scrub script
+08:52:48 <rkabalin_> one-time scrubbing script is not required even really. Requirement is more important.
+08:52:51 <aarow_> It should also be noted, the big exception to the whitespace rule is external libraries
+08:52:58 <mingard> for me having clean code outweighs the downside of hard-to-use git blame as yuliya pointed out
+08:53:14 <aarow_> you can always do "git blame -w" ;)
+08:53:20 <anitsirk> #info the big exception to the whitespace rule is external libraries
+08:53:22 <mingard> so the scrubber would need to skip everything in lib/...?
+08:53:40 <anzeljg> A question about comment in the beginning of each file. Which is valid? please see the difference between e.g. "htdocs/import.lib.php" and e.g. "htdocs/artefact/comment/version.php" (Mahara 1.8 code)
+08:53:41 <aarow_> maybe every subdirectory that has a README.Mahara file in it
+08:53:41 <rkabalin_> I agree re external libs, we do not need changing whitespace there.
+08:54:28 <anzeljg> sorry: "htdocs/import/lib.php"
+08:54:46 <mingard> anzeljg: the comment format was changed but I can't remember which is the new one
+08:54:53 <mingard> IMO that should also be cleaned up
+08:55:19 <anzeljg> Does it also apply for 3rd party plugins? It should IMO
+08:55:40 <aarow_> anzeljg: Does what apply for 3rd party plugins?
+08:56:00 <anzeljg> the comment format on the beginning of each file
+08:56:28 <anzeljg> so the comment is the same as it is in core files
+08:56:37 <anzeljg> well: same structure
+08:56:40 <mingard> I would have it as a guideline for 3rd party plugins but not a requirement unless they are merged into core
+08:56:57 <sonn2> I think these rules only apply for the core
+08:57:08 <anzeljg> guideline sounds fine...
+08:57:09 <anitsirk> mingard: do you mean mahara things or also 3rd party like tinymce?
+08:57:11 <rkabalin_> If everyone agree, I will update documentation to make avoiding trailing whitespace changes as requirement.
+08:57:25 <anitsirk> rkabalin_: and what about the scrubber?
+08:57:27 <mingard> anitsirk: I just mean mahara things
+08:57:28 <aarow_> Well, we don't code review 3rd party plugins, so we can't really enforce guidelines on them ;)
+08:57:30 <robertl_> rkabalin_, I'm fine with that
+08:57:57 <aarow_> I still vote against having whitespace as a requirement, but if everyone else wants it, so be it
+08:57:59 <robertl_> well we only review them if we want to get them into core
+08:58:07 <tonyjbutler> Without the scrubber first, life would be hard for Eclipse users wouldn't it?
+08:58:23 <mingard> aarow_, I guess conscientious plugin devs can just look up the core guidelines
+08:58:24 <aarow_> well, no harder than it currently is
+08:58:36 <aarow_> the scrubber would just make my life easier
+08:58:46 <mingard> and probably the lives of other potential devs
+08:58:51 <aarow_> yes
+08:58:58 <aarow_> as well as making the whitespace rule clearer
+08:59:15 <rkabalin_> regarding stripping script, it is optional (I think not needed), inddeed, as yuliyabozhko1 stated, it will break git blame
+08:59:22 <rkabalin_> re Eclipse users
+08:59:50 <rkabalin_> what about not to inforce whitespace changes in eclipse
+09:00:12 <rkabalin_> but making git stripping them
+09:00:23 <rkabalin_> there is an option
+09:00:27 <aarow_> an automated formatting script would be a great idea
+09:01:07 <rkabalin_> in which case only whitespaces in the patch will be stripped only
+09:01:19 <aarow_> it wouldn't break git blame, because there's "git blame -w". It might break Eclipse annotate, which is a graphical equivalent to git blame...
+09:01:22 <anitsirk> #idea rkabalin_: have git strip whitespace changes from users who work with eclipse. aarow_: an automated formatting script would be a great idea
+09:01:52 <aarow_> tell you what, I'll take a look at how many files have a whitespace problem
+09:02:06 <anitsirk> #info aarow_: the automated formatting script wouldn't break git blame, because there's "git blame -w". It might break Eclipse annotate, which is a graphical equivalent to git blame...
+09:02:10 <mingard> I would say automated formatting and stripping script if git blame -w is a viable option for people who need git blame
+09:02:14 <aarow_> if we could just strip whitespace from a few crucial 10,000-line files that I as a core dev edit frequently, it would make my life a lot happier
+09:02:49 <anitsirk> #action aarow_ to see how many files have a whitespace problem.
+09:03:07 <anitsirk> should rkabalin_ still update the documentation to reintroduce the whitespace requirement?
+09:03:18 <aarow_> sure, everyone but me seems to be in agreement about that
+09:03:28 <mingard> +1
+09:03:32 <robertl_> +1
+09:03:34 <sonn2> +1
+09:03:40 <tonyjbutler> +1
+09:03:49 <anitsirk> #agreed: reintroduce the requirement for avoiding trailing whitespaces
+09:04:00 <anitsirk> alright. anything else on this topic for now?
+09:04:15 <rkabalin_> anitsirk, action for me please ;)
+09:04:25 <anitsirk> action coming up.
+09:04:36 <rkabalin_> cool
+09:04:50 <anitsirk> #action rkabalin_ to update the dev documentation to reintroduce the requirement for avoiding trailing whitespaces
+09:05:07 <rkabalin_> that is it on this topic I think
+09:05:16 <anitsirk> moving on to some happy news.
+09:05:19 <anitsirk> #topic Mahara core developer applications
+09:05:20 <anitsirk> We are very happy to have received 3 applications from developers who have been very active in the community over the last months. They are: Jono Mingard, Yuliya Bozhko and Ghada El-Zoghbi.
+09:05:21 <anitsirk> You can find their applications at:
+09:05:23 <anitsirk> #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/User:Mingard mingard
+09:05:24 <anitsirk> #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/User:Ybozhko yuliyabozhko1
+09:05:25 <anitsirk> #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/Core_Developer_Applications/Ghada_El-Zoghbi Ghada
+09:05:26 <anitsirk> I hope all present approved core developers have had time to review the applications.
+09:05:27 <anitsirk> Unfortunately, Ghada is not able to attend today's meeting due to a time zone conflict. However, if you have general questions, I may be able to answer them as I've worked with her on some Mahara projects.
+09:05:32 <anitsirk> As for the voting, the approved core developers listed at https://reviews.mahara.org/#/admin/groups/6,members are allowed to vote on the applications. As far as I can see, we have the following approved core developers present:
+09:05:52 <anitsirk> aarow_, rkabalin_, robertl_  and sonn2
+09:06:03 <anitsirk> so these can vote
+09:06:22 <anitsirk> the rest of us can’t cast votes, but can still ask questions :-)
+09:06:44 <anitsirk> please let me know if i missed any core dev who has snuck in.
+09:07:06 <yuliyabozhko1> might need 5 voters to decide :)
+09:07:12 <anitsirk> why?
+09:07:19 <yuliyabozhko1> 4 can be 2/2 :)
+09:07:26 <anitsirk> we’ll see, yuliyabozhko1
+09:07:26 <yuliyabozhko1> kidding
+09:07:56 <aarow_> In Nevada, if an electoral vote results in a tie, it is settled by drawing a card
+09:08:04 <robertl_> heh
+09:08:21 <aarow_> just sayin' ;)
+09:08:23 <anitsirk> makes sense… in nevada
+09:08:36 <robertl_> I'd thought you were going to say drawing a gun
+09:08:37 <tobiasz3> you could vote on one that all agree upon and then he can vote as the fifth :)
+09:08:40 <anitsirk> any questions for the applicants? don’t let them sweat
+09:08:57 <aarow_> robertl_: That's how they do it in Texas
+09:09:12 <robertl_> lol
+09:09:12 <yuliyabozhko1> :D
+09:09:49 <anitsirk> going once
+09:10:01 <anitsirk> going twice
+09:10:09 <rkabalin_> What you guys think is the most important feature in mahara
+09:10:09 <anitsirk> (i’m auctioning off question time)
+09:10:30 <rkabalin_> (question for all applicants)
+09:10:32 <mingard> most important feature currently?
+09:10:43 <rkabalin_> in your understanding
+09:10:59 <yuliyabozhko1> for me personally: privacy
+09:11:02 <rkabalin_> might be not a feature per se, but a philosophy you know
+09:11:19 <anitsirk> privacy in what sense?
+09:11:23 <yuliyabozhko1> being able to show only what I need to/ want to
+09:11:51 <anitsirk> BTW: i can’t answer that question on behalf of ghada
+09:12:11 <robertl_> is there any part of mahara you would like to champion/promote?
+09:12:16 <mingard> for me it's groups - seems like the thing that separates mahara from traditional portfolios/websites; collaboratively working on pages and stuff
+09:12:22 <mingard> (in answer to rkbalin_)
+09:12:39 <rkabalin_> yep, thanks guys
+09:13:32 <anitsirk> robertl_: seems like you asked a tough question
+09:13:42 <robertl_> indeed
+09:13:56 <mingard> robertl_: I would champion the social side of things for much the same reasons - I can see how it would have been useful in high school
+09:14:03 <mingard> to have feedback on various pieces of work
+09:14:14 <yuliyabozhko1> robertl_: easier sharing of things, not only via pages :) and social networking
+09:14:17 <mingard> and more individual student/teacher collaboration
+09:14:32 <robertl_> good answers
+09:14:42 <anitsirk> any more questions?
+09:14:48 <anitsirk> or comments on the applications?
+09:15:52 <anitsirk> alright. shall we move to the voting then?
+09:15:53 <yuliyabozhko1> now anitsirk is asking tough questions :)
+09:16:01 <anitsirk> :-)
+09:16:03 <aarow_> +1 for voting ;)
+09:16:06 <robertl_> lets vote!
+09:16:30 <anitsirk> good. so only the 4 aforementioned can vote: aarow_, rkabalin_, robertl_ and sonn2
+09:16:45 <anitsirk> it’s an open voting (the chat is logged and everyone can see the results)
+09:16:46 <rkabalin_> others are observers )
+09:16:54 <anitsirk> yes. thank you.
+09:17:02 <anitsirk> and the applications don’t need to leave the chat. ;-)
+09:17:03 <yuliyabozhko1> lol, and no cheating!
+09:17:20 <anitsirk> so. ready. let’s start with jono
+09:17:35 <sonn2> +2
+09:17:40 <aarow_> lol
+09:17:43 <robertl_> I vote yes
+09:17:44 <anitsirk> the 4: please give us a +1 if you approve of jono becoming an approved core dev
+09:17:47 <aarow_> +1-verified, +2-code-reviewed
+09:17:56 <robertl_> +1
+09:17:56 <aarow_> er... +1
+09:17:57 <rkabalin_> +1
+09:18:00 <sonn2> +1
+09:18:10 <anitsirk> thank you. congratulations, mingard
+09:18:15 <mingard> thanks :)
+09:18:17 <yuliyabozhko1> merge it, quickly! :P until they changed their mind
+09:18:21 <mingard> haha
+09:18:25 <rkabalin_> :D
+09:18:26 <anitsirk> #agreed jono mingard to become an approved mahara core developer.
+09:18:40 <anitsirk> and now on to yuliyabozhko1. same procedure as above.
+09:18:41 <sonn2> congrat
+09:18:46 <aarow_> +1
+09:18:47 <anzeljg> congrats
+09:18:47 <robertl_> +1
+09:18:47 <rkabalin_> +1
+09:18:52 <sonn2> +1
+09:19:01 <anitsirk> #agreed yuliyabozhko1 is to be an approved mahara core developer.
+09:19:06 <anzeljg> congrats
+09:19:07 <anitsirk> congratulations, yuliyabozhko1!
+09:19:07 <yuliyabozhko1> yay! thanks :)
+09:19:16 <mingard> congratulations :)
+09:19:27 <anitsirk> and last not least, ghada el-zoghbi. let’s hear it for her in abscence.
+09:19:33 <aarow_> +1
+09:19:34 <robertl_> +1
+09:19:36 <rkabalin_> +1
+09:19:37 <sonn2> +1
+09:19:56 <anitsirk> #agreed ghada el-zoghbi is the 3rd new approved mahara core developer
+09:20:04 <anitsirk> congratulations, ghada!
+09:20:11 <anzeljg> congrats to her also...
+09:20:12 <aarow_> excellent, we're unanimous
+09:20:15 <sonn2> congrats all aplicants
+09:20:17 <mingard> congratulations if you're reading this chat log ;)
+09:20:18 <yuliyabozhko1> :) awesome
+09:20:19 <robertl_> congrats to all the new core developers, woo hoo!
+09:20:25 <aarow_> I'll go ahead and update their settings in gerrit & launchpad
+09:20:26 <mingard> yay, thanks everyone :)
+09:20:28 <anitsirk> so now we have lots more core devs who can give a +2 on reviews :-)
+09:20:31 <tobiasz3> congrats to all three of you
+09:20:35 <anitsirk> thank you, aarow_
+09:20:53 <anitsirk> #action aarow_ to update gerrit and launchpad settings to include the 3 new mahara core devs.
+09:20:55 <rkabalin_> Congratulations
+09:21:48 <anitsirk> tweet has been sent.
+09:21:49 <robertl_> and when we get the openbadges stuff going we should have a mahara core developer badge :)
+09:21:57 <anitsirk> :-)
+09:21:58 <mingard> haha yes please
+09:22:01 <sonn2> :)
+09:22:21 <anitsirk> ok. i think this concludes this topic.
+09:22:36 <anitsirk> #topic Next meeting and chair
+09:22:36 <anitsirk> Shall we continue with the morning for Europe and evening for NZ / afternoon for Perth?
+09:22:50 <anitsirk> (in case andrew will be able to join in)
+09:23:08 <mingard> it'll be the middle of the night for me in japan (I think(
+09:23:10 <anzeljg> robertl_: Already created one... :)
+09:23:26 <anitsirk> oh. sorry, mingard. forgot about that. :-(
+09:23:31 <yuliyabozhko1> any time fine with me
+09:23:37 <robertl_> I'm fine with NZ in the evenings
+09:23:48 <anitsirk> mingard: actually, it would be afternoon
+09:23:52 <rkabalin_> I'm fine with UK morning
+09:23:54 <sonn2> evening in NZ is fine for me
+09:24:06 <mingard> oh yes, it would be the other way. never mind anitsirk :)
+09:24:17 <anitsirk> what about Thursday, 24 April 2014 at 8 a.m. UTC (9 a.m. UK, 10 a.m. Europe, 8 p.m. NZ, 4 p.m. Perth / Tokyo?
+09:24:24 <aarow_> the current meeting time just screws over North & South America, but we don't have anyone reporting from there just now
+09:24:31 <anitsirk> so morning for europe would then definitely make more sense
+09:24:44 <anitsirk> no, we don’t and i haven’t heard any complaints.
+09:24:44 <aarow_> so sure, this time is fine by me
+09:25:01 <aarow_> when those lazy Americans start contributing, we'll start rotating the meeting times again ;)
+09:25:03 <yuliyabozhko1> it is Thursday before Easter Friday
+09:25:09 <anitsirk> we should be able to have a virtual celebration on having released mahara 1.9 at that time
+09:25:34 <anitsirk> yuliyabozhko1: no. it’s thursday before anzac day
+09:25:39 <robertl_> thurs after easter
+09:25:40 <anitsirk> easter is the week before
+09:25:59 <anitsirk> would one hour earlier be better?
+09:26:03 <anitsirk> or one week later?
+09:26:08 <tobiasz3> I'm fine with Thursday, 24 April 2014 at 8 a.m. UTC
+09:26:15 <yuliyabozhko1> right :) yep, fine for me then :)
+09:26:20 <anzeljg> works for me also
+09:26:21 <mingard> no idea what I'll be doing then, so any time is fine
+09:26:26 <rkabalin_> I will not be able to join 24 April 2014
+09:26:36 <anitsirk> rkabalin_: one week later?
+09:26:37 <robertl_> 24th sounds fine to me
+09:26:42 <anitsirk> may day?
+09:26:53 <anitsirk> we don’t have the day off in nz ;-)
+09:26:58 <anitsirk> can’t remember if the uk does
+09:27:04 <anitsirk> what about japan?
+09:27:07 <rkabalin_> up to you I can skip one
+09:27:23 <rkabalin_> one week later is fine in fact
+09:27:26 <anitsirk> rkabalin_: give us a date that would work for you
+09:27:26 <dajan> 24th is fine to me
+09:27:40 <anitsirk> so what about 1 may same time? would that suit everyone?
+09:27:58 <robertl_> may 1st is ok for me
+09:28:01 <mingard> yep. not a holiday in japan but I should still be able to make it
+09:28:06 <rkabalin_> fine with me
+09:28:10 <dajan> I have just missed the previous votes. All were ok to me
+09:28:15 <tonyjbutler> ok with me
+09:28:29 <anzeljg> ok with me
+09:28:31 <yuliyabozhko1> yep, for me too
+09:28:45 <anitsirk> dajan: you were not allowed to vote anyway. just an observer. ;-)
+09:28:58 <anitsirk> alright. then let’s lock it in.
+09:29:21 <anzeljg> For future reference: http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/ ;)
+09:29:29 <anitsirk> #agreed 32nd Mahara dev meeting on Thursday, 1 May 2014 at 8:00 UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=32nd+Mahara+developer+meeting&iso=20140501T08
+09:29:30 <anitsirk> and who wants to chair?
+09:29:44 <rkabalin_> I can
+09:29:46 <anzeljg> maybe one of the new core devs?
+09:29:52 <anzeljg> too late
+09:29:54 <rkabalin_> or, may be actually
+09:29:58 <anitsirk> give them some time, anzeljg ;-)
+09:30:02 <anzeljg> ok
+09:30:12 <anitsirk> don’t want to scare them away ;-)
+09:30:17 <rkabalin_> then me
+09:30:18 <yuliyabozhko1> phew, got scared for a sec :P
+09:30:29 <mingard> yeah, you're really very scary people
+09:30:34 <anitsirk> yuliyabozhko1: but then for the 33rd :-D
+09:30:46 <anitsirk> thank you for volunteering, rkabalin_
+09:30:51 <yuliyabozhko1> deal
+09:30:59 <anitsirk> #info rkabalin_ to chair the 32nd Mahara dev meeting.
+09:31:12 <anitsirk> #topic Any other business
+09:31:18 <anzeljg> I have one
+09:31:26 <anitsirk> i have two
+09:31:41 <anitsirk> anzeljg: please start
+09:31:52 <anzeljg> I just wanted to ask why the reviews have stalled on https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2936/?
+09:32:03 <anzeljg> not pushing or something...
+09:32:05 <anitsirk> #info anzeljg: I just wanted to ask why the reviews have stalled on https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2936/
+09:32:28 <anitsirk> we decided to keep this for mahara 1.10 as it would not get into 1.9 in time.
+09:32:37 <sonn2> I can't see the patch
+09:32:39 <aarow_> sorry, we just didn't have time to get around to it
+09:32:48 <anzeljg> ok :(
+09:32:48 <aarow_> sonn2: drop the ? from the end of the URL
+09:33:10 <anitsirk> on the up side: it should get into 1.10 early on :-)
+09:33:10 <sonn2> have not signed in yet
+09:33:12 <sonn2> :)
+09:33:22 <anitsirk> and the profile completion stuff is going into 1.9 as far as i know
+09:33:32 <aarow_> yes
+09:33:37 <anitsirk> sonn2: you can view the page without signing in
+09:33:43 <robertl_> progress bar is merged
+09:33:49 <tobiasz3> I guess it's the same for https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2686/ ?
+09:33:50 <anitsirk> and your cookie consent is in as well
+09:34:00 <anitsirk> yes, tobiasz3
+09:34:14 <anitsirk> there are still a number of things that will need to be looked into
+09:34:16 <aarow_> yes, sorry about that as well
+09:34:33 <tobiasz3> ok, never mind
+09:34:48 <anzeljg> anitsirk: i know and i'm gretful... just checking...
+09:34:57 <anitsirk> and again: we should be getting this in early on for 1.10.
+09:34:58 <anzeljg> I know that you guys have a lot of work :)
+09:35:14 <anitsirk> it’s fantastic to have all these new features.
+09:35:15 <anzeljg> getful = grateful
+09:35:24 <anitsirk> which takes me to my topic.
+09:35:33 <anitsirk> #info Mahara 1.9RC1 is about to be released.
+09:35:39 <aarow_> on the note of profiles, actually, I was intrigued by the "booklet" plugin, which I saw at the NZ Mahara Hui last week: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Plugins/Artefact/Booklet
+09:35:57 <aarow_> it's basically custom fields for Mahara
+09:36:00 <anitsirk> we are going through the last bits and pieces, i.e. lang string fixes and last changes.
+09:36:13 <mingard> yes, I'd like to get the booklet plugin into 1.10 if possible
+09:36:37 <yuliyabozhko1> instead of current profile?
+09:36:46 <aarow_> I was thinking it might actually be something we could incorporate in as a replacement for the current profile & resume plugin sets, to make them fully customizable.
+09:37:01 <mingard> yuliyabozkho1: instead of resume
+09:37:01 <robertl_> the booklet plugin would deal with 'Multilinguality of Mahara artefacts' in resume section
+09:37:05 <anitsirk> which might also resolve some multi-language requirements
+09:37:15 <aarow_> though resume attachments might be hard to convert to the booklet format
+09:37:22 <dajan> I showed your the booklet last year when i was in NZ but it was not working very well. Is it now any better?
+09:37:39 <anitsirk> dajan: it’s in gerrit :-)
+09:37:40 <yuliyabozhko1> looked pretty good last time we saw it
+09:37:40 <mingard> true. and there might be issues with displaying stuff on small screens
+09:37:42 <aarow_> Well admittedly I haven't tried it firsthand ;)
+09:37:47 <aarow_> just saw the presentation
+09:37:57 <aarow_> and I haven't looked at the code yet
+09:38:12 <dajan> It was one of the interesting presentation in Mahoodle FR last year.
+09:38:22 <anitsirk> it will need to be looked at from a number of angles and christophe had a list of todos that should be taken into consideration when reviewing it for core
+09:38:23 <robertl_> the presentation was good
+09:38:44 <mingard> it was, and the main features look basically finished
+09:38:56 <mingard> did christophe say if it's in production at his uni?
+09:39:04 <dajan> Don’t forget to talk about Maharamoot and Moodlemoot FR 2014 in Paris - June the 4-6th !
+09:39:04 <sonn2> no
+09:39:07 <anitsirk> #info the booklet plugin https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Plugins/Artefact/Booklet was presented at Mahara Hui in Wellington last week and found a lot of interest.
+09:39:09 <anitsirk> #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Plugins/Artefact/Booklet
+09:39:13 <aarow_> yes, I think he said it was
+09:39:30 <anitsirk> mingard: yes. i think he mentioned it’s being used by a number of universities
+09:39:48 <anitsirk> dajan. ok. you just got some other business :-)
+09:39:58 <anitsirk> #info Maharamoot and Moodlemoot FR 2014 in Paris - June the 4-6th
+09:40:03 <anitsirk> any more info, dajan?
+09:40:22 <dajan> No. comming back gently but surely.
+09:40:23 <anitsirk> would be good if you gave me a short blurb for the newsletter by tomorrow. there won’t be another one before 1 july.
+09:40:36 <dajan> Right will do this later today.
+09:40:41 <anitsirk> or is there already a website where i could steal some info, e.g. on cfp?
+09:41:04 <anitsirk> i need to get the newsletter done latest on saturday NZ time.
+09:41:23 <anitsirk> thank you, dajan. much appreciated.
+09:41:24 <dajan> Yes here : http://moodlemoot2014.univ-paris3.fr/ and here http://moodlemoot2014.univ-paris3.fr/mahara/
+09:41:37 <anitsirk> #link http://moodlemoot2014.univ-paris3.fr/
+09:41:37 <dajan> Wilco
+09:41:44 <anitsirk> #link http://moodlemoot2014.univ-paris3.fr/mahara/
+09:41:50 <anitsirk> alright. back to my business.
+09:41:55 <anitsirk> #info Mahara 1.9RC1
+09:42:29 <anitsirk> so as I said, we are dealing with the last bits and pieces. my lang string fixes are all in gerrit but one where i need some help tomorrow as it would be HTML code in an error message.
+09:42:54 <anitsirk> drumroll
+09:42:57 <anitsirk> then we are looking at releasing RC1 either tomorrow or on monday.
+09:43:12 <dajan> cool
+09:43:26 <anitsirk> we invite everyone to test and test and test and give us feedback quickly so we can still meet our targeted release time of mid-april
+09:43:55 <anzeljg> cool. really cool...
+09:44:18 <anitsirk> any questions / comments?
+09:44:19 <dajan> it is already pretty stable by me
+09:44:51 <anitsirk> there were lots of changes but not as many design and javascript changes as for 1.8
+09:45:01 <anitsirk> so that helped in not breaking things so much ;-)
+09:45:10 <robertl_> true
+09:45:12 <rkabalin_> will defeintely test
+09:45:18 <anitsirk> thank you very much!
+09:45:35 <anitsirk> ok. my second business is not dev related, but hopefully still of interest.
+09:45:37 <anitsirk> #info Mahara Hui - conference and now what?
+09:46:12 <robertl_> ... the world!
+09:46:13 <anitsirk> #info Last week we had our first NZ mahara conference, Mahara Hui (hui = assembly, gathering in Te Reo Māori). It consisted of 2 days presentations and 1 day hackfest.
+09:46:18 <anitsirk> That worked really well.
+09:46:39 <dajan> Would you like we name the Maharamoots Mahara Hui. Or do you want to keep this for NZ?
+09:47:08 <robertl_> it was good to meet up with users and get their feedback
+09:47:08 <anitsirk> #info In the mood of sharing, we are going to make our hui logo available to others to use and others are also welcome to use “Mahara Hui” as general conference name
+09:47:36 <anitsirk> we don’t want to hog “Mahara Hui” and thus, everyone is welcome to use it for their own mahara conference
+09:47:38 <dajan> Ok in the FR world from 2015 then.
+09:47:53 <aarow_> unless Hui is a swear word in French ;)
+09:47:53 <anitsirk> and a cool logo would already be there: the campfire with marshmallow roasting.
+09:48:11 <anitsirk> evonne found a perfect logo for expressing community, gathering
+09:48:14 <dajan> Mmm don’t think so…
+09:48:20 <anitsirk> we also have a more formal logo which can also be adapted.
+09:48:33 <mingard> love the campfire logo :)
+09:48:34 <aarow_> translate.google.com tells me Hui in French means "today"!
+09:48:34 <anitsirk> #info check out https://maharahui.org.nz to view the two logos
+09:48:46 <anitsirk> #link https://maharahui.org.nz
+09:49:04 <anitsirk> that would be aujourd’hui. you are missing part of the wor,d aarow_  ;-)
+09:49:28 <mingard> does the 'hui part not have meaning on its own?
+09:49:46 <dajan> Aujourd’hui means today. Hui means nothing. Hui maybe ment « now » in very very very old French
+09:49:47 <anitsirk> Moodle conferences are called moodlemoots. so why not have Mahara Hui around the world?
+09:50:04 <aarow_> I think it's etymologically related to the Spanish "hoy"
+09:50:23 <dajan> My Spanish is rotten. Sorry
+09:50:26 <mingard> have we given up on mahara ham then aarow_?
+09:50:27 <yuliyabozhko1> arrow_: don't try translating it into Russian >.<
+09:50:32 <aarow_> that's Spanish for "today" :)
+09:50:34 <rkabalin_> :D
+09:50:37 <anitsirk> that’s it from me.
+09:50:53 <anitsirk> anybody with any other business?
+09:51:09 <aarow_> nope
+09:51:18 <mingard> not from me
+09:51:22 <dajan> I think we could fix the name and « impose » it as a decision. No? Do we vote?
+09:51:36 <yuliyabozhko1> only 6 hours of sleep left *sigh*
+09:51:39 <anitsirk> i don’t want to impose the name.
+09:51:58 <anitsirk> “Mahara UK” is pretty established
+09:52:11 <anitsirk> i just want to make a suggestion :-)
+09:52:15 <aarow_> yes, we're just making it available as an option :)
+09:52:19 <anzeljg> Mahara UK Hui?
+09:52:33 <anitsirk> I think it would be Mahara Hui UK then.
+09:52:37 <dajan> Mahara Hui UK, Mahara Hui FR, etc.
+09:53:12 <dajan> And the organisers have to make a Haka at the beginning of the session.
+09:53:28 <aarow_> I think it's okay for it to be up to the conference organizers, since they're the ones doing all the work
+09:53:29 <anzeljg> Love that one... LOL
+09:53:30 <anitsirk> it should start with a mihi. aarow_ is a good speaker :-)
+09:53:59 <robertl_> and possibly a waiata (song)
+09:54:19 <anitsirk> we just wanted to put it out there, in case people are looking for a suggestion and may want to use the artwork that we created.
+09:54:32 <dajan> Moodlemoot FR has its traiditional Mojito drink. Mahara Hui FR will have the Aka. I love that.
+09:54:44 <anitsirk> it was really great how everyone stood up and sang along. long live youtube practice
+09:54:59 <mingard> or not practicing then mumbling the words
+09:55:11 <anitsirk> oh so that was you, mingard? ;-)
+09:55:12 <robertl_> true that!
+09:55:43 <anitsirk> ok. seems like we reached the end of our meeting.
+09:55:49 <mingard> pretty sure I was next to robertl_ at the time, we must have joined forces
+09:56:20 <anitsirk> #info thank you very much for everyone who attended and congrats again for our newly appointed core devs, mingard, yuliyabozhko1 and ghada el-zoghbi.
+09:56:23 <anitsirk> #endmeeting
+ diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-03-27-08.01.log.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-03-27-08.01.log.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..604f8f226545c1708683a58f7c21755652d2f46a --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-03-27-08.01.log.txt @@ -0,0 +1,634 @@ +08:01:48 #startmeeting +08:01:48 Meeting started Thu Mar 27 08:01:48 2014 UTC. The chair is anitsirk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. +08:01:48 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. +08:01:55 Hello and welcome to the 31st Mahara developer meeting. +08:01:56 Please introduce yourself by prefacing your introduction with the #info tag. +08:01:56 #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner from Catalyst IT, Wellington, New Zealand +08:02:06 #info anzeljg is Gregor Anzelj, developer and translator from Gimnazija Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia +08:02:13 #info robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:02:13 #info tobiasz3 is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany +08:02:15 If you have a long statement, please use .. in a line by itself to indicate that you are finished. +08:02:15 #info sonn2 is Son Nguyen from Catalyst IT, Wellington, New Zealand +08:02:23 #info mingard is Jono Mingard, student at Victoria University of Wellington (NZ) and former intern at Catalyst IT +08:02:36 #info rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, UK +08:02:45 #yuliya is Yuliya Bozhko from Totara Learning Solutions, Wellington NZ +08:02:59 i think that’s all. +08:03:00 #topic Items from last meeting +08:03:01 sonn2 will look at which OS's & versions we'll be cutting off if we drop support for MySQL 5.1 +08:03:02 #info aarow_ is Aaron Wells from Catalyst IT in Wellington, NZ +08:03:22 sonn2. over to you +08:03:27 I've just update the wiki page https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/System_Administrator%27s_Guide/Requirements#Database_Server +08:03:56 There are 2 major distribution currently support Mysql 5.1 +08:04:08 RedHat and CentOS +08:04:22 #info sonn2 updated the wiki with information about databases: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/System_Administrator%27s_Guide/Requirements#Database_Server +08:04:59 I'm confused, from that table it looks like they are all 5.1.x +08:05:09 those are the versions with 5.1.x +08:05:12 aarow_: +1 +08:05:14 sonn2: it would be great if you added whether any of the distribution versions that you list in the first table are still supported by the projects +08:05:19 oh, I see, it's a range for most of them +08:05:20 There are old distribution +08:05:22 for example ubuntu has 5.3.x (I think) as of 12.04 +08:05:40 hm, but that range is still mostly 5.1.x +08:05:51 we really need to know distros are still supported. it’s not clear from the table +08:06:14 * know which distros * +08:06:35 hello tonyjbutler. could you please introduce yourself starting your line with #info ? +08:07:04 Currently only RedHat and CentOS still support 5.5 +08:07:06 5.1 +08:07:08 I think there should be a section about databases in general and subsection about 5.1 +08:07:50 hello dajan. can you please introduce yourself starting your line with #info ? +08:07:51 #info Hi, I'm a Moodle and Mahara developer at Lancaster University in the UK, working with Ruslan Kabalin +08:07:51 sonn2: So basically, RedHat and CentOS are the only 2 distros where the highest MySQL version available, is 5.1? +08:08:21 in the current release of that distro +08:08:29 when is the MariaDB stuff kicking in? +08:08:32 they support lowest MySQL version +08:08:54 #info dajan - Mahara French Community facilitator and Mahara translator +08:09:04 right, I think I understand the table now +08:09:28 is it worth testing with MariaDB? they claim to be a drop-in replacement so I guess incompatibility is their problem, but still ... +08:10:03 Yes, IMO, we should support for MariaDB 5.5 + +08:10:08 #idea: start testing with MariaDB? +08:10:44 +1 to testing with MariaDB +08:11:22 there's a list of differences: https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb-vs-mysql-compatibility/ +08:11:46 #link https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb-vs-mysql-compatibility/ - list of differences between MariaDB and MySQL +08:12:15 skimming through, it doesn't look like anything that will affect us, but it wouldn't hurt to test +08:12:35 should we start looking into MariaDB then right after the 1.9 release? +08:12:42 note ubuntu 14.04 will still package mysql and has no plans to switch +08:14:10 note: Debian don't have MariaDB package +08:14:27 I think just, if someone wants to try Mahara in MariaDB, that should be enough. Since it is 99.9% compatible and aims to be 100% compatible with standard MySQL we don't really need to go out of our way to test against it regularly +08:14:29 I think MySQL or MariaDB could both stay as requirement, assuming they are really identical in a sense that no changes are required on Mahara side for one of them. +08:15:08 so it should be ok to say we support it +08:15:09 but would we list mariadb as supported db or just say: it should work? +08:15:27 if we aren’t testing for anything on it, i’d hesitate to say we support it. +08:15:31 Debian Jessie (testing) has it +08:15:32 yep +08:15:40 it would make the most sense to just say we support MySQL +08:16:09 MariaDB users should understand from that statement, that it will also work in MariaDB +08:16:18 fair enough +08:16:36 #idea aarow: it would make the most sense to just say we support MySQL. MariaDB users should understand from that statement, that it will also work in MariaDB +08:16:43 do others agree? +08:16:50 #agree +08:16:50 I would go with that until it's the default in more distros +08:16:55 #agree +08:16:55 #agree +08:16:57 #agree +08:16:59 #agree +08:17:01 #agree +08:17:01 Sound good +08:17:38 #agree +08:17:47 #agreed DB requirements state that we support MySQL. MariaDB users should understand from that statement, that it will also work in MariaDB +08:17:59 do we still need to talk about which versions of mysql to support? +08:18:10 Going back to the original topic of MySQL 5.1, since at least CentOS still offers no more recent version than 5.1.71, I think we should continue to support MySQL 5.1 for one more release cycle +08:18:32 I agree with aarow_ +08:18:39 #idea since at least CentOS still offers no more recent version than 5.1.71, I think we should continue to support MySQL 5.1 for one more release cycle +08:18:53 do others agree as well? +08:19:02 +1 +08:19:04 #agree +08:19:06 #agree +08:19:09 #agree +08:19:09 #agree +08:19:13 #agree +08:19:14 #agree +08:19:28 #agree +08:19:31 #agreed: Support MySQL 5.1 until Mahara 1.10 +08:19:41 does that cover it for this topic? +08:19:52 I think so +08:20:18 rkabalin_: i’ll move anzeljg’s topic up (haven’t forgotten about you), but he needs to leave in 10 min. +08:20:30 that is fine +08:20:35 #topic Usability +08:20:36 I've discussed with anzeljg via email that this will be a more general topic around usability and not look at each individual item as further discussions around them are needed. +08:20:36 anzeljg: Thank you for adding links to existing bug reports and for creating new ones. Did you already start looking into some of them specifically? Or do you have a priority list? +08:21:01 now also since he only has 10 min. to discuss with us, we should keep it to that time to get the discussion started. +08:21:08 no priority list, but some introduction is needed, so... +08:21:25 and anitsirk it's 70 minutes (the times were in UTC) +08:21:36 oh sorry. +08:21:48 mixed up my time zones +08:21:54 Should I continue anyway? +08:21:57 yep +08:21:57 yes, please +08:22:01 On March 4th the Mahara international workshop took place in Ljubljana. +08:22:28 This was a workshop for Slovenian schools taking part in EUfolio project (#link http://eufolio.eu/). +08:22:36 In the project of collaboration between several school from several countries. +08:22:43 After this short info I must also add that a part of that workshop there was aslo a developer meeting. +08:22:51 At this meeting both sides, Austrian (represented by Klaus Himpsl-Gutermann, Thomas Strasser, Christian Fertl) +08:22:58 and Slovenian (represented mainly by myself) exchanged our views on Mahara usability and the troubles faced +08:23:05 when using Mahara. +08:23:12 A lot of usability issues were already reported by other users and so wishlist items already exist, some +08:23:19 issues I couldn't find so I've added new wishlist items. +08:23:26 I propose that we go through these items one by one. The issues are described in bug tracker and I'll +08:23:35 also post links here. If more explanaion is needed I'll try and explain those issues in more detail. +08:23:43 The issues are in no particualr order... +08:23:44 .. +08:23:52 #info An international Mahara workshop took place in Ljubljana on 4 March 2014 that included representatives from Slovenian schools participating in the EUfolio project http://eufolio.eu +08:24:03 #info Choose internal image in TinyMCE without attaching it first. +08:24:11 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1038580 +08:24:18 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1235569 +08:24:26 Maybe should start with this... +08:25:02 definitely something I've come across and want to see fixed +08:25:19 We have also noticed if a user adds an image in textbox and wants to embed that image into a textbox content he/she is unable to do so. +08:26:12 anzeljg: can you please file a report for that with the steps that you took? Normally that should work. +08:26:25 Ok I'll do that... +08:26:36 for the record, I have a patch to upgrade to tinymce 4.x in gerrit and it seems like in theory the image dialog plugin would be easy to extend to include a mahara file browser +08:26:45 which is what I would like to see as a long-term solution +08:26:49 We came across that one in the past as well, people reported it. +08:27:02 +1 to what mingard said +08:27:04 mingard: great +08:27:17 i propose we take a look at the reports until the next meeting as there is quite a bit to read and think about +08:28:06 with the embedding of the image in the tinymce - what happens when the image is deleted? +08:28:17 it would also be good to get some non-devs involved in the discussion. i know that shane from U of Canberra is interested in making usability improvements. +08:28:46 robertl: would be nice if we could replace it with an 'image deleted' placeholder ... +08:29:07 Well, the browser will do that for you sort of, by showing that "missing or broken image" icon ;) +08:29:23 indeed :) +08:29:43 or there could be a dialogue before deleting the image for good like we have elsewhere. +08:30:12 yeah, but it might be hard to go through the db and delete it in all the places it appears +08:30:15 then you'll need to check if it's used anywhere which might not be easy +08:30:38 it's just once the link is hardcoded in the html content of a box it is 'lost' to the mahara system +08:30:41 mingard: the dialogue only tells you that the image is being used. +08:31:06 right. so not like the other artefacts. +08:31:10 so would the user just need to find all the places it's used and delete it from them? +08:31:16 yeah, if you wanted smarter behavior you'd need to store a record of that image link in addition to just putting an tag in the html +08:31:49 I think moodle does smth like that +08:32:00 could you just grep for the image URL in the text box content? would that be too slow/hard? +08:33:07 could end up with problems if people manually alter the html code slightly so the grep doesn't pick them up +08:33:24 true. but then it's their fault if the image isn't deleted :P +08:33:27 my instinct is you'd have reliability and performance issues if you just regexed the stored HTML in the DB +08:33:38 but it is to us they complain :) +08:33:53 does someone want to look into this specifically after we’ve upgraded to tinymce for 1.10? +08:34:27 well, first things first, would be to just add that tinyMCE button for easier embedding of Mahara images +08:34:48 once that's in we could look at enhancing it to warn you when you're going to delete an image that's used in pages +08:35:01 Maybe it would be also nice to revert the process by not needing to add image as attachement first, but that all images uploaded to user files would be instantly available for content inclusion in tinymce? +08:35:10 sounds like a good plan aarow_ +08:35:12 Yes, that would be better +08:35:27 same for blogs, actually +08:36:05 <_mingard> sorry, uni internet >_< +08:36:12 Blog entries and textboxes were both mentioned, yes :) +08:37:03 would you want tinymce to list all image files you've uploaded or just a subsection under say 'images' subdir? +08:37:26 <_mingard> I would say all image files +08:37:31 robertl_: that wouldn’t be good because you may have your images all over your place due to your own organization +08:37:40 <_mingard> exactly +08:37:51 fair enough +08:38:39 <_mingard> it would be cool if there was a generic 'insert' button which could insert images, videos, or other types of files ... +08:38:57 shall we say to look into the other things until the next dev meeting and update the enhancement reports with comments and questions? +08:39:11 sure +08:39:15 anitsirk +1 +08:39:21 <_mingard> +1 +08:39:43 anzeljg: it would also be good if you wrote a forum post / forum posts if you haven’t already done so. Sorry, haven’t had time to check. people who only read the forums might want to know. some of these also mirror what christian kleinhanss had suggested +08:40:04 #action everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the Ljubliana group +08:40:13 I haven't. I was planning to do tat after this meeting. +08:40:21 sounds great, anzeljg +08:40:24 thank you +08:41:01 #action anzeljg to write forum post / forum posts letting community members know about the usability improvement suggestions made in Ljubljana +08:41:07 shall we move on? +08:41:20 #info Copying of Textboxes should create real copies. +08:41:25 yep +08:41:25 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 +08:41:44 anzeljg: i wouldn’t discuss every topic now. we just agreed to look at all of them until next meeting ;-) +08:41:51 ok. +08:41:53 sorry +08:42:18 #topic Whitespace changes in patches +08:42:19 The floor is yours, rkabalin_. +08:42:24 thanks +08:42:28 I that case I'm done. I think they are quite well documented... +08:42:46 OK, trailing whitespaces. This has been discussed in the past http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-09-05-08.01.log.html +08:42:49 Basically, they add too much noise in the diffs, make revision difficult, make history navigation more difficult (e.g. if I use gitk, not diff), create first impression of low coding quality for someone who did not come accross mahara before. +08:42:53 I know, there is a way to run "git diff -w" and also an option in revision interface not to show whitespace changes. +08:42:56 But in my opinion, we basically allow to ignore something that can be easily avoided, and it is not even an obstracle that would stop people contributing. +08:42:59 I suggest to make a requirement not to introduce whitespaces changes at the lines that are not modified by the patch. +08:43:08 #trailing white spaces have been discussed in http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2013/mahara-dev.2013-09-05-08.01.log.html +08:44:07 With the tools that I'm using (eclipse and git) it's actually harder to trim out all the extraneous whitespace changes from my change when committing, than to ignore them when diffing +08:44:08 would that requirement be checked by the script when running make push? +08:44:09 #idea rkabalin_ suggests to make a requirement not to introduce whitespaces changes at the lines that are not modified by the patch. +08:44:11 mahara does have issues with inconsistent whitespace though ... should these be addressed or just ignored until a patch happens to modify those lines? +08:44:31 what about whitespace in third-party plugins? +08:44:35 How about we just run a formatter, after 1.9 is out, and strip out the extraneous whitespace from all the old Mahara core files? +08:44:44 yes please :) +08:44:50 aarow_ are you sure there is no such setting in Eclipse? Netbeans for instance has it. +08:44:54 there are some really lengthy, old ones that have whitespace on the end of every line +08:45:05 #idea arrow_: How about we just run a formatter, after 1.9 is out, and strip out the extraneous whitespace from all the old Mahara core files? +08:45:14 tobiasz3 It is more like for reviewers to check rather than script I think. +08:45:17 the problem in Eclipse is that the "Strip whitespace from end of lines" setting strips it from the end of *every* line in the file +08:46:11 so if I'm editing something like lib/activity.php, and I change one line, Eclipse strips the whitespace from every line, and then it's a hassle for me to do "git add -p", the one git command that *doesn't* have an "ignore whitespace" option, and pick out my one real change +08:46:25 Old lines could remain unchanged until someone touched them. +08:47:00 if we just ran a scrubbing script one time and cleared out the extraneous whitespace from the old lib files it would make my life a lot easier +08:47:09 seconded - assuming a good enough one exists? +08:47:10 the problem with existing pataches, not old ones, anf if requirement will be enforced, we will gradually eleimiate whitespaces instances in the code. +08:47:32 I thought there was a requirement already :) +08:47:43 we softened it to a recommendation +08:47:44 there is +08:47:48 (or not) +08:47:53 there is also the tabs instead of 4 space chars issue too +08:48:08 especially in css files +08:48:16 I agree with enforcing the tab rule ;) +08:48:18 i think it only checks the changed lines, so you cannot introduce new whitespaces +08:48:19 yeah, what if we are editing a file which uses tabs for indenting? +08:48:21 stripping all existing ones will add quite a bit of noise +08:48:23 my tabs are two spaces wide +08:48:29 and will make git blame hard to you +08:48:31 *use +08:48:37 true that +08:48:37 aarow_ stubbing script could be an option, e.g. to run it once after release, but if there is no requirements new instances will be introduced again. +08:49:05 I would be fine with scrubbing and adding more strict whitespace requirements +08:49:24 why can't make push check for that in the lines changed? +08:50:05 sometimes make push is too picky and one needs to git push to gerrit +08:50:27 I was wondering if there should be a force-push task in make which skips the checks (eg. too strict sql injection ones) +08:50:34 like when it complains on sql statements with from or join +08:50:39 we have custom codechecker in Totara that does these kind of checks +08:50:48 that might be a good idea, mingard +08:51:01 mingard force puch is laready there )) +08:51:06 I just do "git push gerrit HEAD:refs/publish/master", but the syntax is easy to forget +08:51:10 s/puch/push +08:51:16 I think a one-time scrubbing script followed by a requirement for future commits is the best solution +08:51:34 just do not use make ;) +08:52:26 rkabalin_: just make sure to change the instructions on the wiki and it should be fine. then people like me won’t make any mistakes with the new rule ;-) +08:52:47 I agree with one time scrub script +08:52:48 one-time scrubbing script is not required even really. Requirement is more important. +08:52:51 It should also be noted, the big exception to the whitespace rule is external libraries +08:52:58 for me having clean code outweighs the downside of hard-to-use git blame as yuliya pointed out +08:53:14 you can always do "git blame -w" ;) +08:53:20 #info the big exception to the whitespace rule is external libraries +08:53:22 so the scrubber would need to skip everything in lib/...? +08:53:40 A question about comment in the beginning of each file. Which is valid? please see the difference between e.g. "htdocs/import.lib.php" and e.g. "htdocs/artefact/comment/version.php" (Mahara 1.8 code) +08:53:41 maybe every subdirectory that has a README.Mahara file in it +08:53:41 I agree re external libs, we do not need changing whitespace there. +08:54:28 sorry: "htdocs/import/lib.php" +08:54:46 anzeljg: the comment format was changed but I can't remember which is the new one +08:54:53 IMO that should also be cleaned up +08:55:19 Does it also apply for 3rd party plugins? It should IMO +08:55:40 anzeljg: Does what apply for 3rd party plugins? +08:56:00 the comment format on the beginning of each file +08:56:28 so the comment is the same as it is in core files +08:56:37 well: same structure +08:56:40 I would have it as a guideline for 3rd party plugins but not a requirement unless they are merged into core +08:56:57 I think these rules only apply for the core +08:57:08 guideline sounds fine... +08:57:09 mingard: do you mean mahara things or also 3rd party like tinymce? +08:57:11 If everyone agree, I will update documentation to make avoiding trailing whitespace changes as requirement. +08:57:25 rkabalin_: and what about the scrubber? +08:57:27 anitsirk: I just mean mahara things +08:57:28 Well, we don't code review 3rd party plugins, so we can't really enforce guidelines on them ;) +08:57:30 rkabalin_, I'm fine with that +08:57:57 I still vote against having whitespace as a requirement, but if everyone else wants it, so be it +08:57:59 well we only review them if we want to get them into core +08:58:07 Without the scrubber first, life would be hard for Eclipse users wouldn't it? +08:58:23 aarow_, I guess conscientious plugin devs can just look up the core guidelines +08:58:24 well, no harder than it currently is +08:58:36 the scrubber would just make my life easier +08:58:46 and probably the lives of other potential devs +08:58:51 yes +08:58:58 as well as making the whitespace rule clearer +08:59:15 regarding stripping script, it is optional (I think not needed), inddeed, as yuliyabozhko1 stated, it will break git blame +08:59:22 re Eclipse users +08:59:50 what about not to inforce whitespace changes in eclipse +09:00:12 but making git stripping them +09:00:23 there is an option +09:00:27 an automated formatting script would be a great idea +09:01:07 in which case only whitespaces in the patch will be stripped only +09:01:19 it wouldn't break git blame, because there's "git blame -w". It might break Eclipse annotate, which is a graphical equivalent to git blame... +09:01:22 #idea rkabalin_: have git strip whitespace changes from users who work with eclipse. aarow_: an automated formatting script would be a great idea +09:01:52 tell you what, I'll take a look at how many files have a whitespace problem +09:02:06 #info aarow_: the automated formatting script wouldn't break git blame, because there's "git blame -w". It might break Eclipse annotate, which is a graphical equivalent to git blame... +09:02:10 I would say automated formatting and stripping script if git blame -w is a viable option for people who need git blame +09:02:14 if we could just strip whitespace from a few crucial 10,000-line files that I as a core dev edit frequently, it would make my life a lot happier +09:02:49 #action aarow_ to see how many files have a whitespace problem. +09:03:07 should rkabalin_ still update the documentation to reintroduce the whitespace requirement? +09:03:18 sure, everyone but me seems to be in agreement about that +09:03:28 +1 +09:03:32 +1 +09:03:34 +1 +09:03:40 +1 +09:03:49 #agreed: reintroduce the requirement for avoiding trailing whitespaces +09:04:00 alright. anything else on this topic for now? +09:04:15 anitsirk, action for me please ;) +09:04:25 action coming up. +09:04:36 cool +09:04:50 #action rkabalin_ to update the dev documentation to reintroduce the requirement for avoiding trailing whitespaces +09:05:07 that is it on this topic I think +09:05:16 moving on to some happy news. +09:05:19 #topic Mahara core developer applications +09:05:20 We are very happy to have received 3 applications from developers who have been very active in the community over the last months. They are: Jono Mingard, Yuliya Bozhko and Ghada El-Zoghbi. +09:05:21 You can find their applications at: +09:05:23 #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/User:Mingard mingard +09:05:24 #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/User:Ybozhko yuliyabozhko1 +09:05:25 #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/Core_Developer_Applications/Ghada_El-Zoghbi Ghada +09:05:26 I hope all present approved core developers have had time to review the applications. +09:05:27 Unfortunately, Ghada is not able to attend today's meeting due to a time zone conflict. However, if you have general questions, I may be able to answer them as I've worked with her on some Mahara projects. +09:05:32 As for the voting, the approved core developers listed at https://reviews.mahara.org/#/admin/groups/6,members are allowed to vote on the applications. As far as I can see, we have the following approved core developers present: +09:05:52 aarow_, rkabalin_, robertl_ and sonn2 +09:06:03 so these can vote +09:06:22 the rest of us can’t cast votes, but can still ask questions :-) +09:06:44 please let me know if i missed any core dev who has snuck in. +09:07:06 might need 5 voters to decide :) +09:07:12 why? +09:07:19 4 can be 2/2 :) +09:07:26 we’ll see, yuliyabozhko1 +09:07:26 kidding +09:07:56 In Nevada, if an electoral vote results in a tie, it is settled by drawing a card +09:08:04 heh +09:08:21 just sayin' ;) +09:08:23 makes sense… in nevada +09:08:36 I'd thought you were going to say drawing a gun +09:08:37 you could vote on one that all agree upon and then he can vote as the fifth :) +09:08:40 any questions for the applicants? don’t let them sweat +09:08:57 robertl_: That's how they do it in Texas +09:09:12 lol +09:09:12 :D +09:09:49 going once +09:10:01 going twice +09:10:09 What you guys think is the most important feature in mahara +09:10:09 (i’m auctioning off question time) +09:10:30 (question for all applicants) +09:10:32 most important feature currently? +09:10:43 in your understanding +09:10:59 for me personally: privacy +09:11:02 might be not a feature per se, but a philosophy you know +09:11:19 privacy in what sense? +09:11:23 being able to show only what I need to/ want to +09:11:51 BTW: i can’t answer that question on behalf of ghada +09:12:11 is there any part of mahara you would like to champion/promote? +09:12:16 for me it's groups - seems like the thing that separates mahara from traditional portfolios/websites; collaboratively working on pages and stuff +09:12:22 (in answer to rkbalin_) +09:12:39 yep, thanks guys +09:13:32 robertl_: seems like you asked a tough question +09:13:42 indeed +09:13:56 robertl_: I would champion the social side of things for much the same reasons - I can see how it would have been useful in high school +09:14:03 to have feedback on various pieces of work +09:14:14 robertl_: easier sharing of things, not only via pages :) and social networking +09:14:17 and more individual student/teacher collaboration +09:14:32 good answers +09:14:42 any more questions? +09:14:48 or comments on the applications? +09:15:52 alright. shall we move to the voting then? +09:15:53 now anitsirk is asking tough questions :) +09:16:01 :-) +09:16:03 +1 for voting ;) +09:16:06 lets vote! +09:16:30 good. so only the 4 aforementioned can vote: aarow_, rkabalin_, robertl_ and sonn2 +09:16:45 it’s an open voting (the chat is logged and everyone can see the results) +09:16:46 others are observers ) +09:16:54 yes. thank you. +09:17:02 and the applications don’t need to leave the chat. ;-) +09:17:03 lol, and no cheating! +09:17:20 so. ready. let’s start with jono +09:17:35 +2 +09:17:40 lol +09:17:43 I vote yes +09:17:44 the 4: please give us a +1 if you approve of jono becoming an approved core dev +09:17:47 +1-verified, +2-code-reviewed +09:17:56 +1 +09:17:56 er... +1 +09:17:57 +1 +09:18:00 +1 +09:18:10 thank you. congratulations, mingard +09:18:15 thanks :) +09:18:17 merge it, quickly! :P until they changed their mind +09:18:21 haha +09:18:25 :D +09:18:26 #agreed jono mingard to become an approved mahara core developer. +09:18:40 and now on to yuliyabozhko1. same procedure as above. +09:18:41 congrat +09:18:46 +1 +09:18:47 congrats +09:18:47 +1 +09:18:47 +1 +09:18:52 +1 +09:19:01 #agreed yuliyabozhko1 is to be an approved mahara core developer. +09:19:06 congrats +09:19:07 congratulations, yuliyabozhko1! +09:19:07 yay! thanks :) +09:19:16 congratulations :) +09:19:27 and last not least, ghada el-zoghbi. let’s hear it for her in abscence. +09:19:33 +1 +09:19:34 +1 +09:19:36 +1 +09:19:37 +1 +09:19:56 #agreed ghada el-zoghbi is the 3rd new approved mahara core developer +09:20:04 congratulations, ghada! +09:20:11 congrats to her also... +09:20:12 excellent, we're unanimous +09:20:15 congrats all aplicants +09:20:17 congratulations if you're reading this chat log ;) +09:20:18 :) awesome +09:20:19 congrats to all the new core developers, woo hoo! +09:20:25 I'll go ahead and update their settings in gerrit & launchpad +09:20:26 yay, thanks everyone :) +09:20:28 so now we have lots more core devs who can give a +2 on reviews :-) +09:20:31 congrats to all three of you +09:20:35 thank you, aarow_ +09:20:53 #action aarow_ to update gerrit and launchpad settings to include the 3 new mahara core devs. +09:20:55 Congratulations +09:21:48 tweet has been sent. +09:21:49 and when we get the openbadges stuff going we should have a mahara core developer badge :) +09:21:57 :-) +09:21:58 haha yes please +09:22:01 :) +09:22:21 ok. i think this concludes this topic. +09:22:36 #topic Next meeting and chair +09:22:36 Shall we continue with the morning for Europe and evening for NZ / afternoon for Perth? +09:22:50 (in case andrew will be able to join in) +09:23:08 it'll be the middle of the night for me in japan (I think( +09:23:10 robertl_: Already created one... :) +09:23:26 oh. sorry, mingard. forgot about that. :-( +09:23:31 any time fine with me +09:23:37 I'm fine with NZ in the evenings +09:23:48 mingard: actually, it would be afternoon +09:23:52 I'm fine with UK morning +09:23:54 evening in NZ is fine for me +09:24:06 oh yes, it would be the other way. never mind anitsirk :) +09:24:17 what about Thursday, 24 April 2014 at 8 a.m. UTC (9 a.m. UK, 10 a.m. Europe, 8 p.m. NZ, 4 p.m. Perth / Tokyo? +09:24:24 the current meeting time just screws over North & South America, but we don't have anyone reporting from there just now +09:24:31 so morning for europe would then definitely make more sense +09:24:44 no, we don’t and i haven’t heard any complaints. +09:24:44 so sure, this time is fine by me +09:25:01 when those lazy Americans start contributing, we'll start rotating the meeting times again ;) +09:25:03 it is Thursday before Easter Friday +09:25:09 we should be able to have a virtual celebration on having released mahara 1.9 at that time +09:25:34 yuliyabozhko1: no. it’s thursday before anzac day +09:25:39 thurs after easter +09:25:40 easter is the week before +09:25:59 would one hour earlier be better? +09:26:03 or one week later? +09:26:08 I'm fine with Thursday, 24 April 2014 at 8 a.m. UTC +09:26:15 right :) yep, fine for me then :) +09:26:20 works for me also +09:26:21 no idea what I'll be doing then, so any time is fine +09:26:26 I will not be able to join 24 April 2014 +09:26:36 rkabalin_: one week later? +09:26:37 24th sounds fine to me +09:26:42 may day? +09:26:53 we don’t have the day off in nz ;-) +09:26:58 can’t remember if the uk does +09:27:04 what about japan? +09:27:07 up to you I can skip one +09:27:23 one week later is fine in fact +09:27:26 rkabalin_: give us a date that would work for you +09:27:26 24th is fine to me +09:27:40 so what about 1 may same time? would that suit everyone? +09:27:58 may 1st is ok for me +09:28:01 yep. not a holiday in japan but I should still be able to make it +09:28:06 fine with me +09:28:10 I have just missed the previous votes. All were ok to me +09:28:15 ok with me +09:28:29 ok with me +09:28:31 yep, for me too +09:28:45 dajan: you were not allowed to vote anyway. just an observer. ;-) +09:28:58 alright. then let’s lock it in. +09:29:21 For future reference: http://www.timeanddate.com/holidays/ ;) +09:29:29 #agreed 32nd Mahara dev meeting on Thursday, 1 May 2014 at 8:00 UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=32nd+Mahara+developer+meeting&iso=20140501T08 +09:29:30 and who wants to chair? +09:29:44 I can +09:29:46 maybe one of the new core devs? +09:29:52 too late +09:29:54 or, may be actually +09:29:58 give them some time, anzeljg ;-) +09:30:02 ok +09:30:12 don’t want to scare them away ;-) +09:30:17 then me +09:30:18 phew, got scared for a sec :P +09:30:29 yeah, you're really very scary people +09:30:34 yuliyabozhko1: but then for the 33rd :-D +09:30:46 thank you for volunteering, rkabalin_ +09:30:51 deal +09:30:59 #info rkabalin_ to chair the 32nd Mahara dev meeting. +09:31:12 #topic Any other business +09:31:18 I have one +09:31:26 i have two +09:31:41 anzeljg: please start +09:31:52 I just wanted to ask why the reviews have stalled on https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2936/? +09:32:03 not pushing or something... +09:32:05 #info anzeljg: I just wanted to ask why the reviews have stalled on https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2936/ +09:32:28 we decided to keep this for mahara 1.10 as it would not get into 1.9 in time. +09:32:37 I can't see the patch +09:32:39 sorry, we just didn't have time to get around to it +09:32:48 ok :( +09:32:48 sonn2: drop the ? from the end of the URL +09:33:10 on the up side: it should get into 1.10 early on :-) +09:33:10 have not signed in yet +09:33:12 :) +09:33:22 and the profile completion stuff is going into 1.9 as far as i know +09:33:32 yes +09:33:37 sonn2: you can view the page without signing in +09:33:43 progress bar is merged +09:33:49 I guess it's the same for https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2686/ ? +09:33:50 and your cookie consent is in as well +09:34:00 yes, tobiasz3 +09:34:14 there are still a number of things that will need to be looked into +09:34:16 yes, sorry about that as well +09:34:33 ok, never mind +09:34:48 anitsirk: i know and i'm gretful... just checking... +09:34:57 and again: we should be getting this in early on for 1.10. +09:34:58 I know that you guys have a lot of work :) +09:35:14 it’s fantastic to have all these new features. +09:35:15 getful = grateful +09:35:24 which takes me to my topic. +09:35:33 #info Mahara 1.9RC1 is about to be released. +09:35:39 on the note of profiles, actually, I was intrigued by the "booklet" plugin, which I saw at the NZ Mahara Hui last week: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Plugins/Artefact/Booklet +09:35:57 it's basically custom fields for Mahara +09:36:00 we are going through the last bits and pieces, i.e. lang string fixes and last changes. +09:36:13 yes, I'd like to get the booklet plugin into 1.10 if possible +09:36:37 instead of current profile? +09:36:46 I was thinking it might actually be something we could incorporate in as a replacement for the current profile & resume plugin sets, to make them fully customizable. +09:37:01 yuliyabozkho1: instead of resume +09:37:01 the booklet plugin would deal with 'Multilinguality of Mahara artefacts' in resume section +09:37:05 which might also resolve some multi-language requirements +09:37:15 though resume attachments might be hard to convert to the booklet format +09:37:22 I showed your the booklet last year when i was in NZ but it was not working very well. Is it now any better? +09:37:39 dajan: it’s in gerrit :-) +09:37:40 looked pretty good last time we saw it +09:37:40 true. and there might be issues with displaying stuff on small screens +09:37:42 Well admittedly I haven't tried it firsthand ;) +09:37:47 just saw the presentation +09:37:57 and I haven't looked at the code yet +09:38:12 It was one of the interesting presentation in Mahoodle FR last year. +09:38:22 it will need to be looked at from a number of angles and christophe had a list of todos that should be taken into consideration when reviewing it for core +09:38:23 the presentation was good +09:38:44 it was, and the main features look basically finished +09:38:56 did christophe say if it's in production at his uni? +09:39:04 Don’t forget to talk about Maharamoot and Moodlemoot FR 2014 in Paris - June the 4-6th ! +09:39:04 no +09:39:07 #info the booklet plugin https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Plugins/Artefact/Booklet was presented at Mahara Hui in Wellington last week and found a lot of interest. +09:39:09 #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Plugins/Artefact/Booklet +09:39:13 yes, I think he said it was +09:39:30 mingard: yes. i think he mentioned it’s being used by a number of universities +09:39:48 dajan. ok. you just got some other business :-) +09:39:58 #info Maharamoot and Moodlemoot FR 2014 in Paris - June the 4-6th +09:40:03 any more info, dajan? +09:40:22 No. comming back gently but surely. +09:40:23 would be good if you gave me a short blurb for the newsletter by tomorrow. there won’t be another one before 1 july. +09:40:36 Right will do this later today. +09:40:41 or is there already a website where i could steal some info, e.g. on cfp? +09:41:04 i need to get the newsletter done latest on saturday NZ time. +09:41:23 thank you, dajan. much appreciated. +09:41:24 Yes here : http://moodlemoot2014.univ-paris3.fr/ and here http://moodlemoot2014.univ-paris3.fr/mahara/ +09:41:37 #link http://moodlemoot2014.univ-paris3.fr/ +09:41:37 Wilco +09:41:44 #link http://moodlemoot2014.univ-paris3.fr/mahara/ +09:41:50 alright. back to my business. +09:41:55 #info Mahara 1.9RC1 +09:42:29 so as I said, we are dealing with the last bits and pieces. my lang string fixes are all in gerrit but one where i need some help tomorrow as it would be HTML code in an error message. +09:42:54 drumroll +09:42:57 then we are looking at releasing RC1 either tomorrow or on monday. +09:43:12 cool +09:43:26 we invite everyone to test and test and test and give us feedback quickly so we can still meet our targeted release time of mid-april +09:43:55 cool. really cool... +09:44:18 any questions / comments? +09:44:19 it is already pretty stable by me +09:44:51 there were lots of changes but not as many design and javascript changes as for 1.8 +09:45:01 so that helped in not breaking things so much ;-) +09:45:10 true +09:45:12 will defeintely test +09:45:18 thank you very much! +09:45:35 ok. my second business is not dev related, but hopefully still of interest. +09:45:37 #info Mahara Hui - conference and now what? +09:46:12 ... the world! +09:46:13 #info Last week we had our first NZ mahara conference, Mahara Hui (hui = assembly, gathering in Te Reo Māori). It consisted of 2 days presentations and 1 day hackfest. +09:46:18 That worked really well. +09:46:39 Would you like we name the Maharamoots Mahara Hui. Or do you want to keep this for NZ? +09:47:08 it was good to meet up with users and get their feedback +09:47:08 #info In the mood of sharing, we are going to make our hui logo available to others to use and others are also welcome to use “Mahara Hui” as general conference name +09:47:36 we don’t want to hog “Mahara Hui” and thus, everyone is welcome to use it for their own mahara conference +09:47:38 Ok in the FR world from 2015 then. +09:47:53 unless Hui is a swear word in French ;) +09:47:53 and a cool logo would already be there: the campfire with marshmallow roasting. +09:48:11 evonne found a perfect logo for expressing community, gathering +09:48:14 Mmm don’t think so… +09:48:20 we also have a more formal logo which can also be adapted. +09:48:33 love the campfire logo :) +09:48:34 translate.google.com tells me Hui in French means "today"! +09:48:34 #info check out https://maharahui.org.nz to view the two logos +09:48:46 #link https://maharahui.org.nz +09:49:04 that would be aujourd’hui. you are missing part of the wor,d aarow_ ;-) +09:49:28 does the 'hui part not have meaning on its own? +09:49:46 Aujourd’hui means today. Hui means nothing. Hui maybe ment « now » in very very very old French +09:49:47 Moodle conferences are called moodlemoots. so why not have Mahara Hui around the world? +09:50:04 I think it's etymologically related to the Spanish "hoy" +09:50:23 My Spanish is rotten. Sorry +09:50:26 have we given up on mahara ham then aarow_? +09:50:27 arrow_: don't try translating it into Russian >.< +09:50:32 that's Spanish for "today" :) +09:50:34 :D +09:50:37 that’s it from me. +09:50:53 anybody with any other business? +09:51:09 nope +09:51:18 not from me +09:51:22 I think we could fix the name and « impose » it as a decision. No? Do we vote? +09:51:36 only 6 hours of sleep left *sigh* +09:51:39 i don’t want to impose the name. +09:51:58 “Mahara UK” is pretty established +09:52:11 i just want to make a suggestion :-) +09:52:15 yes, we're just making it available as an option :) +09:52:19 Mahara UK Hui? +09:52:33 I think it would be Mahara Hui UK then. +09:52:37 Mahara Hui UK, Mahara Hui FR, etc. +09:53:12 And the organisers have to make a Haka at the beginning of the session. +09:53:28 I think it's okay for it to be up to the conference organizers, since they're the ones doing all the work +09:53:29 Love that one... LOL +09:53:30 it should start with a mihi. aarow_ is a good speaker :-) +09:53:59 and possibly a waiata (song) +09:54:19 we just wanted to put it out there, in case people are looking for a suggestion and may want to use the artwork that we created. +09:54:32 Moodlemoot FR has its traiditional Mojito drink. Mahara Hui FR will have the Aka. I love that. +09:54:44 it was really great how everyone stood up and sang along. long live youtube practice +09:54:59 or not practicing then mumbling the words +09:55:11 oh so that was you, mingard? ;-) +09:55:12 true that! +09:55:43 ok. seems like we reached the end of our meeting. +09:55:49 pretty sure I was next to robertl_ at the time, we must have joined forces +09:56:20 #info thank you very much for everyone who attended and congrats again for our newly appointed core devs, mingard, yuliyabozhko1 and ghada el-zoghbi. +09:56:23 #endmeeting \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-03-27-08.01.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-03-27-08.01.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..cf055bc7016c10f2dd2fcced272b05d6d9eeb52a --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-03-27-08.01.txt @@ -0,0 +1,210 @@ +=================== +#mahara-dev Meeting +=================== + + +Meeting started by anitsirk at 08:01:48 UTC. The full logs are available +at +http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-03-27-08.01.log.html +. + + + +Meeting summary +--------------- +* anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner from Catalyst IT, Wellington, New + Zealand (anitsirk, 08:01:56) +* anzeljg is Gregor Anzelj, developer and translator from Gimnazija + Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia (anzeljg, 08:02:06) +* robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ (robertl_, + 08:02:13) +* tobiasz3 is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany + (tobiasz3, 08:02:13) +* sonn2 is Son Nguyen from Catalyst IT, Wellington, New Zealand (sonn2, + 08:02:15) +* mingard is Jono Mingard, student at Victoria University of Wellington + (NZ) and former intern at Catalyst IT (mingard, 08:02:23) +* rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, UK (rkabalin_, + 08:02:36) +* Items from last meeting (anitsirk, 08:03:00) + * aarow_ is Aaron Wells from Catalyst IT in Wellington, NZ (aarow_, + 08:03:02) + * sonn2 updated the wiki with information about databases: + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/System_Administrator%27s_Guide/Requirements#Database_Server + (anitsirk, 08:04:22) + * Hi, I'm a Moodle and Mahara developer at Lancaster University in the + UK, working with Ruslan Kabalin (tonyjbutler, 08:07:51) + * dajan - Mahara French Community facilitator and Mahara translator + (dajan, 08:08:54) + * IDEA: : start testing with MariaDB? (anitsirk, 08:10:08) + * LINK: https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb-vs-mysql-compatibility/ - + list of differences between MariaDB and MySQL (anitsirk, 08:11:46) + * IDEA: aarow: it would make the most sense to just say we support + MySQL. MariaDB users should understand from that statement, that it + will also work in MariaDB (anitsirk, 08:16:36) + * AGREED: DB requirements state that we support MySQL. MariaDB users + should understand from that statement, that it will also work in + MariaDB (anitsirk, 08:17:47) + * IDEA: since at least CentOS still offers no more recent version than + 5.1.71, I think we should continue to support MySQL 5.1 for one more + release cycle (anitsirk, 08:18:39) + * AGREED: : Support MySQL 5.1 until Mahara 1.10 (anitsirk, 08:19:31) + +* Usability (anitsirk, 08:20:35) + * An international Mahara workshop took place in Ljubljana on 4 March + 2014 that included representatives from Slovenian schools + participating in the EUfolio project http://eufolio.eu (anitsirk, + 08:23:52) + * Choose internal image in TinyMCE without attaching it first. + (anzeljg, 08:24:03) + * LINK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1038580 (anzeljg, + 08:24:11) + * LINK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1235569 (anzeljg, + 08:24:18) + * ACTION: everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by + the Ljubliana group (anitsirk, 08:40:04) + * ACTION: anzeljg to write forum post / forum posts letting community + members know about the usability improvement suggestions made in + Ljubljana (anitsirk, 08:41:01) + * Copying of Textboxes should create real copies. (anzeljg, 08:41:20) + * LINK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 (anzeljg, + 08:41:25) + +* Whitespace changes in patches (anitsirk, 08:42:18) + * IDEA: rkabalin_ suggests to make a requirement not to introduce + whitespaces changes at the lines that are not modified by the patch. + (anitsirk, 08:44:09) + * IDEA: arrow_: How about we just run a formatter, after 1.9 is out, + and strip out the extraneous whitespace from all the old Mahara core + files? (anitsirk, 08:45:05) + * the big exception to the whitespace rule is external libraries + (anitsirk, 08:53:20) + * IDEA: rkabalin_: have git strip whitespace changes from users who + work with eclipse. aarow_: an automated formatting script would be a + great idea (anitsirk, 09:01:22) + * aarow_: the automated formatting script wouldn't break git blame, + because there's "git blame -w". It might break Eclipse annotate, + which is a graphical equivalent to git blame... (anitsirk, + 09:02:06) + * ACTION: aarow_ to see how many files have a whitespace problem. + (anitsirk, 09:02:49) + * AGREED: : reintroduce the requirement for avoiding trailing + whitespaces (anitsirk, 09:03:49) + * ACTION: rkabalin_ to update the dev documentation to reintroduce the + requirement for avoiding trailing whitespaces (anitsirk, 09:04:50) + +* Mahara core developer applications (anitsirk, 09:05:19) + * LINK: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/User:Mingard mingard + (anitsirk, 09:05:23) + * LINK: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/User:Ybozhko yuliyabozhko1 + (anitsirk, 09:05:24) + * LINK: + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/Core_Developer_Applications/Ghada_El-Zoghbi + Ghada (anitsirk, 09:05:25) + * AGREED: jono mingard to become an approved mahara core developer. + (anitsirk, 09:18:26) + * AGREED: yuliyabozhko1 is to be an approved mahara core developer. + (anitsirk, 09:19:01) + * AGREED: ghada el-zoghbi is the 3rd new approved mahara core + developer (anitsirk, 09:19:56) + * ACTION: aarow_ to update gerrit and launchpad settings to include + the 3 new mahara core devs. (anitsirk, 09:20:53) + +* Next meeting and chair (anitsirk, 09:22:36) + * AGREED: 32nd Mahara dev meeting on Thursday, 1 May 2014 at 8:00 UTC: + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=32nd+Mahara+developer+meeting&iso=20140501T08 + (anitsirk, 09:29:29) + * rkabalin_ to chair the 32nd Mahara dev meeting. (anitsirk, + 09:30:59) + +* Any other business (anitsirk, 09:31:12) + * anzeljg: I just wanted to ask why the reviews have stalled on + https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2936/ (anitsirk, 09:32:05) + * Mahara 1.9RC1 is about to be released. (anitsirk, 09:35:33) + * the booklet plugin + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Plugins/Artefact/Booklet was + presented at Mahara Hui in Wellington last week and found a lot of + interest. (anitsirk, 09:39:07) + * LINK: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Plugins/Artefact/Booklet + (anitsirk, 09:39:09) + * Maharamoot and Moodlemoot FR 2014 in Paris - June the 4-6th + (anitsirk, 09:39:58) + * LINK: http://moodlemoot2014.univ-paris3.fr/ (anitsirk, 09:41:37) + * LINK: http://moodlemoot2014.univ-paris3.fr/mahara/ (anitsirk, + 09:41:44) + * Mahara 1.9RC1 (anitsirk, 09:41:55) + * Mahara Hui - conference and now what? (anitsirk, 09:45:37) + * Last week we had our first NZ mahara conference, Mahara Hui (hui = + assembly, gathering in Te Reo Māori). It consisted of 2 days + presentations and 1 day hackfest. (anitsirk, 09:46:13) + * In the mood of sharing, we are going to make our hui logo available + to others to use and others are also welcome to use “Mahara Hui” as + general conference name (anitsirk, 09:47:08) + * check out https://maharahui.org.nz to view the two logos (anitsirk, + 09:48:34) + * LINK: https://maharahui.org.nz (anitsirk, 09:48:46) + * thank you very much for everyone who attended and congrats again for + our newly appointed core devs, mingard, yuliyabozhko1 and ghada + el-zoghbi. (anitsirk, 09:56:20) + +Meeting ended at 09:56:23 UTC. + + + + +Action Items +------------ +* everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the + Ljubliana group +* anzeljg to write forum post / forum posts letting community members + know about the usability improvement suggestions made in Ljubljana +* aarow_ to see how many files have a whitespace problem. +* rkabalin_ to update the dev documentation to reintroduce the + requirement for avoiding trailing whitespaces +* aarow_ to update gerrit and launchpad settings to include the 3 new + mahara core devs. + + + + +Action Items, by person +----------------------- +* aarow_ + * aarow_ to see how many files have a whitespace problem. + * aarow_ to update gerrit and launchpad settings to include the 3 new + mahara core devs. +* anzeljg + * anzeljg to write forum post / forum posts letting community members + know about the usability improvement suggestions made in Ljubljana +* rkabalin_ + * rkabalin_ to update the dev documentation to reintroduce the + requirement for avoiding trailing whitespaces +* **UNASSIGNED** + * everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the + Ljubliana group + + + + +People Present (lines said) +--------------------------- +* anitsirk (215) +* aarow_ (82) +* anzeljg (64) +* mingard (64) +* rkabalin_ (58) +* robertl_ (46) +* yuliyabozhko1 (34) +* sonn2 (26) +* dajan (21) +* tobiasz3 (10) +* tonyjbutler (7) +* _mingard (5) +* maharameet` (2) + + + + +Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 + +.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-05-01-08.01.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-05-01-08.01.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..0e6e8c3fd66e7f33772018d6f7bde8c7538d61b1 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-05-01-08.01.html @@ -0,0 +1,265 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev Meeting + + + + +

#mahara-dev Meeting

+ +Meeting started by rkabalin at 08:01:37 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Meeting summary

+
    +
  1. +
      +
    1. anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, + Wellington, New Zealand (anitsirk, + 08:01:53)
    2. +
    3. tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, + Karlsruhe, Germany (tobiasz, + 08:01:59)
    4. +
    5. anzeljg is Gregor Anželj, developer and + translator from Gimnazija Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia (anzeljg, + 08:02:00)
    6. +
    7. rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster + University, UK (rkabalin, + 08:02:10)
    8. +
    9. aarow_ is Aaron Wells in sunny Wellington New + Zealand (aarow_, + 08:02:12)
    10. +
    11. ghada is Ghada El-Zoghbi, develper at Catalyst + IT, Sydney, Australia (ghada, + 08:02:36)
    12. +
    +
  2. +
  3. Items from last meeting (rkabalin, 08:02:57) +
      +
    1. everyone to look at list of enhancement + suggestions made by the Ljubljana group (rkabalin, + 08:03:10)
    2. +
    3. https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 + (anitsirk, + 08:05:18)
    4. +
    5. ACTION: everyone to + look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the Ljubliana + group (rkabalin, + 08:05:26)
    6. +
    7. https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 + (rkabalin, + 08:06:21)
    8. +
    9. anzeljg to write forum post / forum posts + letting community members know about the usability improvement + suggestions made in Ljubljana (rkabalin, + 08:07:50)
    10. +
    11. https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 + (rkabalin, + 08:08:05)
    12. +
    13. aarow_ to see how many files have a whitespace + problem. (rkabalin, + 08:08:56)
    14. +
    15. ACTION: aarow_ do + some tests and see how much of a rebase problem such a commit would + cause (rkabalin, + 08:20:21)
    16. +
    17. rkabalin_ to update the dev documentation to + reintroduce the requirement for avoiding trailing whitespaces + (rkabalin, + 08:20:35)
    18. +
    19. https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Coding_guidelines#Whitespace + (rkabalin, + 08:20:44)
    20. +
    21. sonn1, Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington, + NZ (sonn1, + 08:23:25)
    22. +
    23. aarow_ to update gerrit and launchpad settings + to include the 3 new mahara core devs (rkabalin, + 08:24:23)
    24. +
    +
  4. +
  5. Mahara clone on github (rkabalin, 08:24:56) +
      +
    1. https://github.com/maharaproject + (aarow_, + 08:25:38)
    2. +
    3. Mahara repo on github.com + https://github.com/maharaproject (rkabalin, + 08:26:05)
    4. +
    5. github clon of mahara is being synced in 1 to 5 + minutes automatically using the gerrit replication plugin + (rkabalin, + 08:30:38)
    6. +
    7. ACTION: aarow_ and + everyone really: always look both ways before crossing the + street (rkabalin, + 08:36:55)
    8. +
    9. ACTION: aarow_ look + into gerrit update (rkabalin, + 08:40:37)
    10. +
    +
  6. +
  7. Next meeting and chair (rkabalin, 08:42:33) +
      +
    1. AGREED: 33rd Mahara + dev meeting on Thursday, 5th of June, at 8 a.m. UTC: + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+33rd+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140605T08 + (rkabalin, + 08:48:08)
    2. +
    3. yuliyabozhko1 to chair the 33nd Mahara dev + meeting (rkabalin, + 08:51:13)
    4. +
    5. https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/Chair_Duties + (rkabalin, + 08:51:29)
    6. +
    +
  8. +
  9. Any other business (rkabalin, 08:54:11) +
      +
    1. anzeljg porposes Local hook for adding custom + sideblocks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1314465 + (rkabalin, + 08:56:51)
    2. +
    3. aarow_ wrote page about blocks functionality in + Mahara: + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Sideblocks_API + (rkabalin, + 08:59:13)
    4. +
    +
  10. +
+

+ + + + +Meeting ended at 09:17:25 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Action items

+
    +
  1. everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the Ljubliana group
  2. +
  3. aarow_ do some tests and see how much of a rebase problem such a commit would cause
  4. +
  5. aarow_ and everyone really: always look both ways before crossing the street
  6. +
  7. aarow_ look into gerrit update
  8. +
+

+ + + +

Action items, by person

+
    +
  1. aarow_
      +
    1. aarow_ do some tests and see how much of a rebase problem such a commit would cause
    2. +
    3. aarow_ and everyone really: always look both ways before crossing the street
    4. +
    5. aarow_ look into gerrit update
    6. +
  2. +
+

+ + + +

People present (lines said)

+
    +
  1. rkabalin (105)
  2. +
  3. aarow_ (85)
  4. +
  5. anitsirk (36)
  6. +
  7. yuliyabozhko1 (33)
  8. +
  9. anzeljg (27)
  10. +
  11. ghada (25)
  12. +
  13. yuliyabozhko (10)
  14. +
  15. tobiasz (7)
  16. +
  17. maharameet (4)
  18. +
  19. sonn1 (3)
  20. +
  21. yuliyab (2)
  22. +
  23. tonyb (1)
  24. +
+

+ + + +Generated by MeetBot 0.1.4. + diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-05-01-08.01.log.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-05-01-08.01.log.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..04f2f049f092e60f6e633168609dce0a0c792303 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-05-01-08.01.log.html @@ -0,0 +1,365 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev log + + + + +
08:01:37 <rkabalin> #startmeeting
+08:01:37 <maharameet> Meeting started Thu May  1 08:01:37 2014 UTC.  The chair is rkabalin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
+08:01:37 <maharameet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
+08:01:43 <rkabalin> Hello and welcome to the 32nd Mahara developer meeting.
+08:01:49 <rkabalin> Please introduce yourself by prefacing your introduction with the #info tag.
+08:01:53 <anitsirk> #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, New Zealand
+08:01:59 <tobiasz> #info tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany
+08:02:00 <anzeljg> #info anzeljg is Gregor Anželj, developer and translator from Gimnazija Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia
+08:02:10 <rkabalin> #info rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, UK
+08:02:12 <aarow_> #info aarow_ is Aaron Wells in sunny Wellington New Zealand
+08:02:33 <ghada> #infor ghada is Ghada El-Zoghbi, develper at Catalyst IT, Sydney, Australia
+08:02:36 <ghada> #info ghada is Ghada El-Zoghbi, develper at Catalyst IT, Sydney, Australia
+08:02:40 <anitsirk> seems like yuliya might have some irc issues. she was here but left again.
+08:02:52 <rkabalin> ok
+08:02:57 <rkabalin> #topic Items from last meeting
+08:03:10 <rkabalin> #info everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the Ljubljana group
+08:03:35 <rkabalin> I have to admit I did not look
+08:03:38 <anitsirk> sorry, anzeljg. didn’t manage to look at the items in depth but only had a cursory look today.
+08:04:05 <ghada> sorry, me too...
+08:04:45 <rkabalin> shame, did anyone had chance to look?
+08:04:48 <anzeljg> so postpone that untill another dev meeting? It would be nice to talk about these things then. Maybe we should add it to items list?
+08:04:56 <tobiasz> One of the topics, the textbox-copy thing, is already being discussed in another thread
+08:04:58 <aarow_> What was the URL?
+08:05:05 <anitsirk> i’ll try to update the bug reports with my thoughts over the next couple of weeks. some need a bit more info, one or two need to be branched off as they are on an already closed bug / wishlist item.
+08:05:18 <anitsirk> https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283
+08:05:26 <rkabalin> #action everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the Ljubliana group
+08:05:33 <rkabalin> postponing to the next meeting
+08:05:44 <anitsirk> and we are looking into the image selector within tinymce, but first want to implement tinymce 4
+08:06:05 <anzeljg> #url https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283
+08:06:17 <anzeljg> anitsirk: sorry
+08:06:21 <rkabalin> #link https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283
+08:06:43 <anitsirk> hi yuliyab. hope you won’t have irc troubles again like last time
+08:06:53 <rkabalin> hello yuliyab
+08:06:58 <yuliyab> hey
+08:07:09 <yuliyab> can't connect through pidgin for some reason :(
+08:07:34 <rkabalin> next item
+08:07:50 <rkabalin> #info anzeljg to write forum post / forum posts letting community members know about the usability improvement suggestions made in Ljubljana
+08:07:58 <anitsirk> that’s done
+08:08:00 <rkabalin> that has been done I think
+08:08:05 <rkabalin> #link https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283
+08:08:08 <anitsirk> that’s the link above
+08:08:12 <rkabalin> ah, same link as above
+08:08:14 <anzeljg> the fourth time :)
+08:08:19 <rkabalin> heh
+08:08:36 <anzeljg> somebody will now definitely remember to look at it :)
+08:08:43 <anitsirk> :-)
+08:08:47 <rkabalin> thanks anzeljg
+08:08:56 <rkabalin> #info aarow_ to see how many files have a whitespace problem.
+08:09:12 <anitsirk> rkabalin: shouldn’t that be #topic?
+08:09:27 <rkabalin> no, it is itemd from hte last meeting
+08:09:34 <anitsirk> ah right. sorry
+08:10:11 <yuliyabozhko> I am all set, hope didn't miss much :)
+08:10:12 <aarow_> I took a quick look at some of the biggest offenders today. There are about 2 dozen big files with a lot of whitespace in them, which cause problems for me due to the way Eclipse does end-of-line whitespace removal
+08:10:32 <anitsirk> yuliyabozhko: nope. we started discussing hitespaces. nothing of importance on that before you came back
+08:11:02 <ghada> aarow_ what does Eclipse do?
+08:11:12 <yuliyabozhko> cool. I've beet trying to clean up whitespaces when I work in the same file area
+08:11:14 <aarow_> For instance htdocs/artefact/lib.php has 116 lines with extra whitespace on the end. When I make a change to this file in Eclipse, it removes the whitespace from the end of all those lines, and then I have to pick through 116 different changes in "git add -p" to pick out my actual change for committing
+08:11:22 <ghada> I use Eclipse and want to make sure I don't cause this...
+08:11:49 <aarow_> ghada: The problem is that we've got a coding standard that says you can't have extraneous end-of-line whitespace
+08:12:08 <aarow_> so I turn on Eclipse's setting to automatically remove end-of-line whitespace
+08:12:09 <ghada> yes, Gerrit checks to make sure there are no extra spaces.
+08:12:10 <yuliyabozhko> why don't we leave existing ones as they are and just clean them up as we go? just need to make sure not to introduce the new ones
+08:12:20 <aarow_> but, Eclipse then does this to every line in the file instead of just the changed ones
+08:12:39 <aarow_> so I change one line in lib/activity.php, and Eclipse then removes the whitespace from 116 lines of it
+08:13:01 <aarow_> and then I have to carefully pick through the changes with git add -p to commit only my actually changed line
+08:13:28 <yuliyabozhko> you should tell eclipse to stop doing that >.<
+08:13:47 <aarow_> takes me a minute or two nearly every time I'm doing a commit, and it's really annoying. I want to just do a one-time commit to clean up these old files which were committed before we had this whitespace coding standard
+08:13:49 <rkabalin> did we decid to push a change that removes every trailing whitespace in all files (excluding external libs)?
+08:14:06 <aarow_> we talked about it but didn't come to a conclusion last time
+08:14:07 <ghada> I use Eclipse and don't use the whitespace clean up.  I turn on to view all formatting. And, can see if my changes have extra spaces or not.
+08:14:12 <aarow_> which is how we came to say I'd look into it
+08:14:28 <yuliyabozhko> we have a script that checks only changed code when a patch is pushed
+08:14:57 <rkabalin> aarow_, why not to do the opposite, disable whitespace removal in Eclipse and make sure your change does not contain any of them when you do git diff
+08:15:15 <yuliyabozhko> yes, second that
+08:15:16 <aarow_> Because then I'd be wasting my time manually fixing my whitespace
+08:15:32 <aarow_> which is on better than my current situation of wasting my time manually picking out my non-whitespace changes
+08:15:37 <aarow_> *no
+08:16:16 <yuliyabozhko> hmmm, I don't see a good solution to this problem really...
+08:16:19 <aarow_> just one commit that fixes the whitespace on these old files, would make my life and the many commits that I make, a lot easier
+08:16:49 <aarow_> I don't see that it would inconvenience anybody very much either, given that diff commands can ignore whitespace.
+08:16:53 <rkabalin> push it then, just make sure you do not change code from external libs
+08:17:44 <aarow_> sounds good to me
+08:18:14 <tobiasz> I'm all in for the one time scrub
+08:18:23 <yuliyabozhko> looking forward to rebase hell :)
+08:18:47 <rkabalin> aarow_, alternatively you may cosider using different IDE, if that is an option.
+08:18:52 <rkabalin> :)
+08:19:09 <anitsirk> yuliyabozhko: it’s only 24 files or so that are big offenders. so you might not have touched them. :-)
+08:19:19 <aarow_> I'll do some tests and see how much of a rebase problem such a commit would cause
+08:19:40 <aarow_> and if it doesn't look too bad I'll just bite the bullet and do it
+08:19:47 <yuliyabozhko> :) I am ok with that. I know how to rebase ;)
+08:19:58 <rkabalin> the rebase hell will be short anyway
+08:20:09 <aarow_> okay, shall we move on to the next topic then?
+08:20:14 <yuliyabozhko> yep
+08:20:21 <rkabalin> #action aarow_ do some tests and see how much of a rebase problem such a commit would cause
+08:20:35 <rkabalin> #info rkabalin_ to update the dev documentation to reintroduce the requirement for avoiding trailing whitespaces
+08:20:42 <rkabalin> that is done
+08:20:44 <rkabalin> #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Coding_guidelines#Whitespace
+08:22:04 <rkabalin> probably require removing duplicates from recommended section
+08:22:16 <rkabalin> which I missed from some reason ;/
+08:22:50 <sonn1> Hi
+08:22:59 <rkabalin> hello sonn1
+08:23:00 <anzeljg> sonn1 hi
+08:23:04 <ghada> hi sonn1
+08:23:25 <sonn1> #info sonn1, Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:24:14 <rkabalin> ok, I updated https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Coding_guidelines#Whitespace
+08:24:16 <ghada> @rkabalin: much better with duplicates removed.
+08:24:23 <rkabalin> #info aarow_ to update gerrit and launchpad settings to include the 3 new mahara core devs
+08:24:32 <aarow_> done!
+08:24:36 <rkabalin> cool
+08:24:47 <rkabalin> ok, next topic
+08:24:56 <rkabalin> #topic Mahara clone on github
+08:24:59 <rkabalin> aarow_ chair is yours
+08:25:34 <aarow_> We've had a few requests to put a clone of our repo up on github.com, so I went ahead and did that about 2 weeks back
+08:25:38 <aarow_> https://github.com/maharaproject
+08:25:53 <anitsirk> does that mean we should move all operations to github?
+08:25:59 <aarow_> it's set up to sync to the repo on https://reviews.mahara.org using the same gerrit plugin that syncs the code to our gitorious repo
+08:26:05 <rkabalin> #info  Mahara repo on github.com  https://github.com/maharaproject
+08:26:06 <anitsirk> why were requests made to move to github?
+08:26:20 <aarow_> No, I think for the time being it's okay to continue considering the gitorious repo our main repository
+08:26:26 <yuliyabozhko1> it is easier to fork it there
+08:26:41 <aarow_> The github repo is just a clone of it, to make it easier for github users to access Mahara
+08:27:47 <rkabalin> Is the clone being automatically updated?
+08:28:00 <ghada> do you want us to give you our github username here or send you an email?
+08:28:06 <aarow_> yep, automatically synced using the gerrit replication plugin, which is also what we use to sync to gitorious
+08:28:14 <rkabalin> I see
+08:28:36 <ghada> so, there's not much of a delay?
+08:28:49 <aarow_> Right, if you want to be added to the Mahara organization on github... yeah, probably easiest if you send me an email
+08:28:52 <aarow_> aaronw@catalyst.net.nz
+08:29:08 <yuliyabozhko1> :) with username
+08:29:17 <aarow_> No, not much of a delay in the syncing. It seems to sync in 1 to 5 minutes
+08:29:20 <rkabalin> #info anyone wants to be added to the Mahara organization on github send email to aarow_ aaronw@catalyst.net.nz
+08:29:23 <aarow_> yes, with your github username
+08:29:35 <rkabalin> #undo
+08:29:35 <maharameet> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x2bf3ed0>
+08:29:45 <rkabalin> #info anyone wants to be added to the Mahara organization on github send email to aarow_ aaronw@catalyst.net.nz with github username
+08:30:38 <rkabalin> #info github clon of mahara is being synced in 1 to 5 minutes automatically  using the gerrit replication plugin
+08:31:11 <aarow_> and that's everything for that topic :)
+08:31:22 <rkabalin> what permissions the members of github project will have?
+08:31:48 <yuliyabozhko1> we can set up dev team there, but I think it's read only repo?
+08:31:53 <rkabalin> I suppose the dierect push should be disabled
+08:32:07 <aarow_> Yeah, that repo is meant to be read-only. Any commits made directly there will get overwritten by the replication plugin I think
+08:32:34 <aarow_> so the main reason to add other people as members of the project, would be so other people can manage it in case I get hit by a bus ;)
+08:32:37 <rkabalin> ok, so what is the benefits then to be members?
+08:32:49 <rkabalin> I see
+08:33:18 <rkabalin> makes sense
+08:33:43 <yuliyabozhko1> not that we want you to be hit by a bus :P ever
+08:33:44 <rkabalin> aarow_ please be careful when you are crossing the road ;)
+08:33:52 <aarow_> I guess the other thing to consider, is that there are other repositories in our gitorious project besides the main that one that holds Mahara itself. For instance, there's the mahara-scripts repository which contains associated scripts. Potentially we could have cloned these into github as well, but since we don't have any existing infrastructure set up to keep them up to sync I decided against it
+08:34:33 <aarow_> Wellington does have a relatively high rate of pedestrians getting hit by buses... maybe that was a bad figure of speech to pick. ;)
+08:34:44 <aarow_> But I always look both ways before crossing the street
+08:34:54 <yuliyabozhko1> oh, talking about infrastructure when are we going to have tests and gerrit upgrade?
+08:34:55 <rkabalin> ok, I think they may be added at the later point if required or requested by contrib maintainer
+08:34:59 <anitsirk> we could move the manual over. wouldn’t make sense to keep it in two places. currently i’m pretty much the only committer.
+08:35:13 <anitsirk> adding images into the separate manual image repository might make things easier
+08:36:55 <rkabalin> #action aarow_ and everyone really: always look both ways before crossing the street
+08:37:16 <rkabalin> ok, are we ready to move to the next topic
+08:37:54 <ghada> what about the gerrit upgrade yuliyabozhko1 asked about?
+08:38:01 <rkabalin> ah, sorry
+08:38:09 <yuliyabozhko1> gerrit is really out of date right now
+08:38:12 <rkabalin> spotted that one, sorry yuliyabozhko1
+08:38:36 <yuliyabozhko1> new version has features that would make review easier
+08:38:45 <aarow_> Procedurally speaking, that should probably come up in "other business" at the end since it wasn't on the agenda :)
+08:38:51 <rkabalin> Who is maintaining gerrit?
+08:38:56 <aarow_> that's us at Catalyst
+08:39:01 <yuliyabozhko1> :) ok, I can wait
+08:39:03 <aarow_> I do want to upgrade gerrit
+08:39:15 <aarow_> we just need to have someone sit down and do it
+08:39:50 <rkabalin> shall I add an action for you aarow_ to look into gerrit update?
+08:39:59 <aarow_> sure
+08:40:15 <aarow_> yuliya, you're already using the latest version of gerrit at Totara HQ, right?
+08:40:23 <yuliyabozhko1> Alastair Munro does our upgrades in Totara if you need any help
+08:40:27 <yuliyabozhko1> yep
+08:40:36 <aarow_> ah, cool, I'll keep that in mind
+08:40:37 <rkabalin> #action aarow_ look into gerrit update
+08:40:39 <aarow_> although, he's in the UK, right?
+08:41:02 <yuliyabozhko1> yep, but he is connected most of the time
+08:41:14 <aarow_> well, I'll send him an email
+08:41:38 <rkabalin> great
+08:41:56 <rkabalin> thanks aarow_
+08:42:05 <anitsirk> aarow_: note: he will have a totara email address. as he just switched as of today.
+08:42:14 <rkabalin> next topic?
+08:42:23 <ghada> yep
+08:42:31 <yuliyabozhko1> yep
+08:42:33 <rkabalin> #topic Next meeting and chair
+08:42:41 <rkabalin> what about Thursday, 5th of June 2014 at 8 p.m. UTC (9 p.m. UK, 10 p.m. Europe)?
+08:43:03 <yuliyabozhko1> what does it make in NZ?
+08:43:12 <anitsirk> 8 am the next day
+08:43:23 <aarow_> so June 6, 8am?
+08:43:28 <ghada> which means what for Sydney?
+08:43:29 <rkabalin> true, forgot NZ ))
+08:43:40 <aarow_> um... 4 am Sydney I think?
+08:43:41 <yuliyabozhko1> yeah, I suppose :) I am back from 1 month holiday on 3rd :)
+08:43:47 <anitsirk> 6 am for sydney
+08:44:03 <ghada> can we make it 8:30pm UTC?
+08:44:05 <anitsirk> sydney is only 2 hours behind wellington, aarow_  :-)
+08:44:20 <ghada> that extra half hour...
+08:44:21 <aarow_> I think if we want to accommodate people in the UK, Aus, and NZ, we need to stick with around 8pm UTC
+08:44:26 <aarow_> I mean, 8am UTC
+08:44:50 <anitsirk> not to forget japan if jono finds time
+08:44:56 <yuliyabozhko1> doesn't matter for me, so pick whatever suits others
+08:45:08 <ghada> 8am UTC works for me.
+08:45:11 <rkabalin> 8am is fine for me as well
+08:45:22 <rkabalin> I just thought we are swapping am/pm each time
+08:45:29 <anitsirk> either works for me.
+08:45:40 <anitsirk> rkabalin: we haven’t done so lately to accommodate australia a bit better
+08:45:48 <rkabalin> OK, 8am then?
+08:45:51 <tobiasz> 8am UTC is fine for me
+08:45:55 <sonn1> ok for me
+08:45:55 <anitsirk> esp. at the time andrew in perth, but now it’s more likely that ghada will join regularly
+08:46:14 <ghada> that would be great.
+08:46:21 <aarow_> Yes, the last few meetings, since we've had more Australian presence, we've been sticking with one time. Of course, this makes it the middle of the night in the US, but if any Americans start wanting to attend we can go back to alternating the times. ;)
+08:46:39 <yuliyabozhko1> good plan :)
+08:47:06 <rkabalin> #agreed 33rd Mahara dev meeting on Thursday, 5th of June, at 8 a.m. UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+33rd+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140605T09&p1=1344
+08:47:57 <rkabalin> #undo
+08:47:57 <maharameet> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Agreed object at 0x2a8aa50>
+08:48:08 <rkabalin> #agreed 33rd Mahara dev meeting on Thursday, 5th of June, at 8 a.m. UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+33rd+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140605T08
+08:48:14 <rkabalin> ^ in UTC
+08:48:16 <anitsirk> yep. that’s the better link :-)
+08:48:38 <rkabalin> who is willing to chair?
+08:49:07 <anzeljg> at last meeting yulia volunteered?
+08:49:24 <yuliyabozhko1> i WAS volunteered :P
+08:49:28 <anzeljg> or was it tow meetings ao?
+08:49:31 <anzeljg> ago?
+08:49:38 <anzeljg> :)
+08:49:39 <rkabalin> yuliyabozhko1 would you like to chair?
+08:49:46 <yuliyabozhko1> I am leaving next week and coming back on June 3rd
+08:50:09 <yuliyabozhko1> so, If you don't mind that I will be a bit out of date on everything that is happening, I can do
+08:50:53 <rkabalin> I think that is fine, you will always have an agend to look at aand others to help
+08:50:57 <yuliyabozhko1> and someone will have to tell me how to run meetings :)
+08:51:05 <yuliyabozhko1> cool then
+08:51:13 <rkabalin> #info yuliyabozhko1 to chair the 33nd Mahara dev meeting
+08:51:20 <rkabalin> running meeting is easy
+08:51:26 <yuliyabozhko1> :)
+08:51:29 <rkabalin> https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/Chair_Duties
+08:51:34 <anzeljg> yuliabozhko1: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/Chair_Duties
+08:51:37 <yuliyabozhko1> awesome, thanks
+08:51:52 <anitsirk> the commands are pretty easy
+08:52:08 <rkabalin> and you can use logs from previous meeting for reference
+08:52:18 <yuliyabozhko1> yep, will have a look at that
+08:52:23 <anitsirk> rotating the chair duties helps us all to learn them and then use them thus putting less pressure on the chairperson :-)
+08:52:23 <yuliyabozhko1> thanks!
+08:52:44 <yuliyabozhko1> :) fair enough
+08:52:48 <anitsirk> it also helps to have the topic lines etc. already prepared so that you don’t have to type them up during the meeting
+08:52:58 <anitsirk> but can just copy and paste.
+08:53:35 <yuliyabozhko1> good to know  :)
+08:53:53 <rkabalin> ok, next topic
+08:54:00 <anitsirk> also helps in other circumstances when you want to introduce your own topics
+08:54:03 <anitsirk> and give background info
+08:54:11 <rkabalin> #topic Any other business
+08:54:13 <anzeljg> I have one...
+08:54:31 <anitsirk> me too
+08:54:50 <rkabalin> ok, anzeljg go on first
+08:55:01 <anzeljg> Can we discuss it a bit more, to know what to expect or where this thing would turn?
+08:55:09 <anzeljg> A proposal is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1314465
+08:55:18 <anzeljg> Can we discuss it a bit more, to know what to expect or where this thing would turn?
+08:55:19 <anzeljg> ..
+08:55:39 <anzeljg> Local hook for adding custom sideblocks: I'm working on a project where I need to add custom sideblocks...
+08:55:50 <rkabalin> looks useful
+08:55:51 <anzeljg> sorry: wrong copy-paste :)
+08:56:25 <aarow_> That's the bug for "Local hook for adding custom sideblocks", seems correct
+08:56:51 <rkabalin> #info anzeljg porposes Local hook for adding custom sideblocks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1314465
+08:56:55 <anzeljg> the order of pasted lines...
+08:57:04 <anzeljg> arrow had different oppinion on that?
+08:57:21 <aarow_> right, well, I'm fine with adding the local hook
+08:57:27 <rkabalin> I am not sure if block should be a plugin
+08:57:44 <aarow_> but, I think in addition to that, if we want to really provide support for sideblocks, it'd make sense to make them a full-featured plugin type
+08:58:05 <aarow_> The main thing I haven't been able to figure out is how a sideblock plugin would tell you what pages it should appear on
+08:58:11 <rkabalin> it is plugin in Moodle though, but for mahara they are more like information containing section rather than course elements
+08:58:36 <aarow_> For anyone who's unfamiliar with how sideblocks currently work, I wrote up a page about it on the wiki: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Sideblocks_API
+08:59:13 <rkabalin> #info aarow_ wrote page about blocks functionality in Mahara: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Sideblocks_API
+08:59:28 <aarow_> The way I envision it, sideblock plugins would not be something that users decide to add. Rather... they would just show up, on the relevant pages, much like the core sideblocks do
+09:00:00 <aarow_> I can think of plenty of use-cases where an organization might want to add additional types of sideblocks to Mahara
+09:00:02 <ghada> so, it's determined by the group - a setting there.
+09:00:15 <ghada> ?
+09:00:29 <aarow_> well, that's the tricky part. The way sideblocks currently work, is there are hard-coded "if" statements in the smarty() method in lib/web.php
+09:00:42 <aarow_> these examine various things about the page being loaded, and decide which sideblocks are appropriate
+09:00:48 <anzeljg> to explain my situation: i will have to add a sideblock which will display different links in different groups (if that helps)
+09:00:52 <aarow_> like the "login" sideblock, the profile sideblock, etc
+09:01:23 <aarow_> additionally, a page can request that specific sideblocks be displayed on it using a parameter to the smarty() method. This is how the user file quote sideblock shows up
+09:01:46 <aarow_> so, requesting specific sideblocks on specific pages would work for, say, a sideblock that comes along with an artefact plugin, that wants to add the sideblock to pages dealing with that artefact
+09:02:03 <aarow_> but in the case anzeljg is describing, you'd have to modify the /group pages in order to use the smarty() param method to load that sideblock
+09:02:46 <anzeljg> I am aware of that, but the soulution should (if possible) not change core files...
+09:02:59 <aarow_> I guess one possibility I was considering, is that each sideblock plugin could have its own "should I show up on this page?" method that gets called on each page load
+09:03:17 <aarow_> that would look much like the sample local_sideblocks() method that anzeljg posted to that bug
+09:03:17 <tobiasz> could you, maybe optionally/additionally, register sideblocks with the menu path?
+09:05:12 <aarow_> yeah, examining the menu path is one way the sideblocks could decide whether they should show up or not
+09:05:35 <rkabalin> I think for now hook is easier solution that will work for anzeljg problem, if someone is willing to develop a proper plugin infrastructure for blocks, they could do that when needed.
+09:05:37 <anzeljg> I think that's what I did in sample method :)
+09:06:00 <aarow_> rkabalin: yeah, that's what I was thinking
+09:06:13 <aarow_> anzeljg's hook is a low-effort way to at least make custom sideblocks possible
+09:06:26 <rkabalin> yep
+09:06:33 <anzeljg> great
+09:06:52 <aarow_> hm, and I think just from describing this to you all I've got some more ideas about how to handle sideblocks as a full-fledged plugin ;)
+09:07:19 <anzeljg> great * 2
+09:07:29 <yuliyabozhko1> power of brainstorming!
+09:07:33 <tobiasz> why wouldn't you allow administrators to disable the sidblock-plugin?
+09:07:37 <rkabalin> aarow_ feel free to create wiki page with feature proposal
+09:07:51 <yuliyabozhko1> and implement it
+09:07:52 <yuliyabozhko1> ;)
+09:08:01 <rkabalin> :D
+09:08:08 <aarow_> tobiasz: If we made sideblocks into a full plugin type, admins would be able to disable them using the Extensions page
+09:08:22 <aarow_> hm, I think it might actually be easier for admins to disable them, in fact
+09:08:42 <aarow_> currently there isn't really any way to do that, except that many of the sideblocks have their own $CFG setting to enable/disable them
+09:09:14 <aarow_> and anzeljg's new local hook would also let you remove specific sideblocks, since it takes the whole $SIDEBLOCKS array as a param
+09:09:45 <ghada> we'd still keep the user sideblock, etc visible.  It wouldn't be disabled...
+09:10:23 <ghada> or is that also up to the admin?
+09:10:38 <aarow_> Yes, if I turned sideblocks into a full-fledged plugin type, then all the existing sideblocks would get turned into sideblock plugins, and we'd make sure the upgrade script displays them all the same as it currently does
+09:11:05 <aarow_> the main difference would be, that if they were a plugin type, it would be easier for 3rd party devs to write new sideblock types
+09:11:19 <aarow_> also, sideblocks could potentially have their own crons, configs, and all the other things that go along with being a Mahara plugin type
+09:11:37 <rkabalin> shall we move sideblocks discussion to the next meeting as separate item then?
+09:11:42 <ghada> would reduce core hacking...
+09:12:27 <aarow_> I don't think it even needs to be on the agenda for next time
+09:12:42 <aarow_> If I write up a proposal, I'll add that to the agenda. :)
+09:12:50 <aarow_> otherwise, we can just leave it off
+09:13:04 <rkabalin> ok, thanks
+09:13:09 <yuliyabozhko1> sounds good
+09:13:11 <aarow_> anzeljg's patch just needs to be verified and merged
+09:13:37 <aarow_> anyway, nothing further on that topic
+09:14:13 <rkabalin> thanks aarow_
+09:14:41 <rkabalin> anitsirk you had another item to discuss
+09:14:49 <anitsirk> i just wanted to invite everyone to raise their virtual glasses in celebration of the release of mahara 1.9. It's been almost three weeks now that we had yet another release with great features. thank you to everyone who contributed to make it possible.
+09:15:23 <yuliyabozhko1> :) yay!
+09:15:23 <ghada> **clinking of glasses
+09:15:27 <aarow_> cheers
+09:15:32 <anzeljg> cheers
+09:15:33 <tobiasz> cheers
+09:15:35 <tonyb> cheers
+09:15:37 <aarow_> (in the toasting sense, rather than the NZ "thanks" sense ;) )
+09:16:13 <rkabalin> cheers
+09:16:14 <rkabalin> :D
+09:16:34 <anitsirk> that’s it from me.
+09:16:42 <rkabalin> thanks anitsirk
+09:16:56 <rkabalin> anything else we missed?
+09:17:17 <rkabalin> no?
+09:17:18 <ghada> i think you got it all.
+09:17:19 <yuliyabozhko1> can't think of anything
+09:17:23 <rkabalin> ok
+09:17:25 <rkabalin> #endmeeting
+ diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-05-01-08.01.log.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-05-01-08.01.log.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..5e02e2cb295bd3326f9af5b303461c7704c21b6c --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-05-01-08.01.log.txt @@ -0,0 +1,338 @@ +08:01:37 #startmeeting +08:01:37 Meeting started Thu May 1 08:01:37 2014 UTC. The chair is rkabalin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. +08:01:37 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. +08:01:43 Hello and welcome to the 32nd Mahara developer meeting. +08:01:49 Please introduce yourself by prefacing your introduction with the #info tag. +08:01:53 #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, New Zealand +08:01:59 #info tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany +08:02:00 #info anzeljg is Gregor Anželj, developer and translator from Gimnazija Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia +08:02:10 #info rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, UK +08:02:12 #info aarow_ is Aaron Wells in sunny Wellington New Zealand +08:02:33 #infor ghada is Ghada El-Zoghbi, develper at Catalyst IT, Sydney, Australia +08:02:36 #info ghada is Ghada El-Zoghbi, develper at Catalyst IT, Sydney, Australia +08:02:40 seems like yuliya might have some irc issues. she was here but left again. +08:02:52 ok +08:02:57 #topic Items from last meeting +08:03:10 #info everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the Ljubljana group +08:03:35 I have to admit I did not look +08:03:38 sorry, anzeljg. didn’t manage to look at the items in depth but only had a cursory look today. +08:04:05 sorry, me too... +08:04:45 shame, did anyone had chance to look? +08:04:48 so postpone that untill another dev meeting? It would be nice to talk about these things then. Maybe we should add it to items list? +08:04:56 One of the topics, the textbox-copy thing, is already being discussed in another thread +08:04:58 What was the URL? +08:05:05 i’ll try to update the bug reports with my thoughts over the next couple of weeks. some need a bit more info, one or two need to be branched off as they are on an already closed bug / wishlist item. +08:05:18 https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 +08:05:26 #action everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the Ljubliana group +08:05:33 postponing to the next meeting +08:05:44 and we are looking into the image selector within tinymce, but first want to implement tinymce 4 +08:06:05 #url https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 +08:06:17 anitsirk: sorry +08:06:21 #link https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 +08:06:43 hi yuliyab. hope you won’t have irc troubles again like last time +08:06:53 hello yuliyab +08:06:58 hey +08:07:09 can't connect through pidgin for some reason :( +08:07:34 next item +08:07:50 #info anzeljg to write forum post / forum posts letting community members know about the usability improvement suggestions made in Ljubljana +08:07:58 that’s done +08:08:00 that has been done I think +08:08:05 #link https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 +08:08:08 that’s the link above +08:08:12 ah, same link as above +08:08:14 the fourth time :) +08:08:19 heh +08:08:36 somebody will now definitely remember to look at it :) +08:08:43 :-) +08:08:47 thanks anzeljg +08:08:56 #info aarow_ to see how many files have a whitespace problem. +08:09:12 rkabalin: shouldn’t that be #topic? +08:09:27 no, it is itemd from hte last meeting +08:09:34 ah right. sorry +08:10:11 I am all set, hope didn't miss much :) +08:10:12 I took a quick look at some of the biggest offenders today. There are about 2 dozen big files with a lot of whitespace in them, which cause problems for me due to the way Eclipse does end-of-line whitespace removal +08:10:32 yuliyabozhko: nope. we started discussing hitespaces. nothing of importance on that before you came back +08:11:02 aarow_ what does Eclipse do? +08:11:12 cool. I've beet trying to clean up whitespaces when I work in the same file area +08:11:14 For instance htdocs/artefact/lib.php has 116 lines with extra whitespace on the end. When I make a change to this file in Eclipse, it removes the whitespace from the end of all those lines, and then I have to pick through 116 different changes in "git add -p" to pick out my actual change for committing +08:11:22 I use Eclipse and want to make sure I don't cause this... +08:11:49 ghada: The problem is that we've got a coding standard that says you can't have extraneous end-of-line whitespace +08:12:08 so I turn on Eclipse's setting to automatically remove end-of-line whitespace +08:12:09 yes, Gerrit checks to make sure there are no extra spaces. +08:12:10 why don't we leave existing ones as they are and just clean them up as we go? just need to make sure not to introduce the new ones +08:12:20 but, Eclipse then does this to every line in the file instead of just the changed ones +08:12:39 so I change one line in lib/activity.php, and Eclipse then removes the whitespace from 116 lines of it +08:13:01 and then I have to carefully pick through the changes with git add -p to commit only my actually changed line +08:13:28 you should tell eclipse to stop doing that >.< +08:13:47 takes me a minute or two nearly every time I'm doing a commit, and it's really annoying. I want to just do a one-time commit to clean up these old files which were committed before we had this whitespace coding standard +08:13:49 did we decid to push a change that removes every trailing whitespace in all files (excluding external libs)? +08:14:06 we talked about it but didn't come to a conclusion last time +08:14:07 I use Eclipse and don't use the whitespace clean up. I turn on to view all formatting. And, can see if my changes have extra spaces or not. +08:14:12 which is how we came to say I'd look into it +08:14:28 we have a script that checks only changed code when a patch is pushed +08:14:57 aarow_, why not to do the opposite, disable whitespace removal in Eclipse and make sure your change does not contain any of them when you do git diff +08:15:15 yes, second that +08:15:16 Because then I'd be wasting my time manually fixing my whitespace +08:15:32 which is on better than my current situation of wasting my time manually picking out my non-whitespace changes +08:15:37 *no +08:16:16 hmmm, I don't see a good solution to this problem really... +08:16:19 just one commit that fixes the whitespace on these old files, would make my life and the many commits that I make, a lot easier +08:16:49 I don't see that it would inconvenience anybody very much either, given that diff commands can ignore whitespace. +08:16:53 push it then, just make sure you do not change code from external libs +08:17:44 sounds good to me +08:18:14 I'm all in for the one time scrub +08:18:23 looking forward to rebase hell :) +08:18:47 aarow_, alternatively you may cosider using different IDE, if that is an option. +08:18:52 :) +08:19:09 yuliyabozhko: it’s only 24 files or so that are big offenders. so you might not have touched them. :-) +08:19:19 I'll do some tests and see how much of a rebase problem such a commit would cause +08:19:40 and if it doesn't look too bad I'll just bite the bullet and do it +08:19:47 :) I am ok with that. I know how to rebase ;) +08:19:58 the rebase hell will be short anyway +08:20:09 okay, shall we move on to the next topic then? +08:20:14 yep +08:20:21 #action aarow_ do some tests and see how much of a rebase problem such a commit would cause +08:20:35 #info rkabalin_ to update the dev documentation to reintroduce the requirement for avoiding trailing whitespaces +08:20:42 that is done +08:20:44 #link https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Coding_guidelines#Whitespace +08:22:04 probably require removing duplicates from recommended section +08:22:16 which I missed from some reason ;/ +08:22:50 Hi +08:22:59 hello sonn1 +08:23:00 sonn1 hi +08:23:04 hi sonn1 +08:23:25 #info sonn1, Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:24:14 ok, I updated https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Coding_guidelines#Whitespace +08:24:16 @rkabalin: much better with duplicates removed. +08:24:23 #info aarow_ to update gerrit and launchpad settings to include the 3 new mahara core devs +08:24:32 done! +08:24:36 cool +08:24:47 ok, next topic +08:24:56 #topic Mahara clone on github +08:24:59 aarow_ chair is yours +08:25:34 We've had a few requests to put a clone of our repo up on github.com, so I went ahead and did that about 2 weeks back +08:25:38 https://github.com/maharaproject +08:25:53 does that mean we should move all operations to github? +08:25:59 it's set up to sync to the repo on https://reviews.mahara.org using the same gerrit plugin that syncs the code to our gitorious repo +08:26:05 #info Mahara repo on github.com https://github.com/maharaproject +08:26:06 why were requests made to move to github? +08:26:20 No, I think for the time being it's okay to continue considering the gitorious repo our main repository +08:26:26 it is easier to fork it there +08:26:41 The github repo is just a clone of it, to make it easier for github users to access Mahara +08:27:47 Is the clone being automatically updated? +08:28:00 do you want us to give you our github username here or send you an email? +08:28:06 yep, automatically synced using the gerrit replication plugin, which is also what we use to sync to gitorious +08:28:14 I see +08:28:36 so, there's not much of a delay? +08:28:49 Right, if you want to be added to the Mahara organization on github... yeah, probably easiest if you send me an email +08:28:52 aaronw@catalyst.net.nz +08:29:08 :) with username +08:29:17 No, not much of a delay in the syncing. It seems to sync in 1 to 5 minutes +08:29:20 #info anyone wants to be added to the Mahara organization on github send email to aarow_ aaronw@catalyst.net.nz +08:29:23 yes, with your github username +08:29:35 #undo +08:29:35 Removing item from minutes: +08:29:45 #info anyone wants to be added to the Mahara organization on github send email to aarow_ aaronw@catalyst.net.nz with github username +08:30:38 #info github clon of mahara is being synced in 1 to 5 minutes automatically using the gerrit replication plugin +08:31:11 and that's everything for that topic :) +08:31:22 what permissions the members of github project will have? +08:31:48 we can set up dev team there, but I think it's read only repo? +08:31:53 I suppose the dierect push should be disabled +08:32:07 Yeah, that repo is meant to be read-only. Any commits made directly there will get overwritten by the replication plugin I think +08:32:34 so the main reason to add other people as members of the project, would be so other people can manage it in case I get hit by a bus ;) +08:32:37 ok, so what is the benefits then to be members? +08:32:49 I see +08:33:18 makes sense +08:33:43 not that we want you to be hit by a bus :P ever +08:33:44 aarow_ please be careful when you are crossing the road ;) +08:33:52 I guess the other thing to consider, is that there are other repositories in our gitorious project besides the main that one that holds Mahara itself. For instance, there's the mahara-scripts repository which contains associated scripts. Potentially we could have cloned these into github as well, but since we don't have any existing infrastructure set up to keep them up to sync I decided against it +08:34:33 Wellington does have a relatively high rate of pedestrians getting hit by buses... maybe that was a bad figure of speech to pick. ;) +08:34:44 But I always look both ways before crossing the street +08:34:54 oh, talking about infrastructure when are we going to have tests and gerrit upgrade? +08:34:55 ok, I think they may be added at the later point if required or requested by contrib maintainer +08:34:59 we could move the manual over. wouldn’t make sense to keep it in two places. currently i’m pretty much the only committer. +08:35:13 adding images into the separate manual image repository might make things easier +08:36:55 #action aarow_ and everyone really: always look both ways before crossing the street +08:37:16 ok, are we ready to move to the next topic +08:37:54 what about the gerrit upgrade yuliyabozhko1 asked about? +08:38:01 ah, sorry +08:38:09 gerrit is really out of date right now +08:38:12 spotted that one, sorry yuliyabozhko1 +08:38:36 new version has features that would make review easier +08:38:45 Procedurally speaking, that should probably come up in "other business" at the end since it wasn't on the agenda :) +08:38:51 Who is maintaining gerrit? +08:38:56 that's us at Catalyst +08:39:01 :) ok, I can wait +08:39:03 I do want to upgrade gerrit +08:39:15 we just need to have someone sit down and do it +08:39:50 shall I add an action for you aarow_ to look into gerrit update? +08:39:59 sure +08:40:15 yuliya, you're already using the latest version of gerrit at Totara HQ, right? +08:40:23 Alastair Munro does our upgrades in Totara if you need any help +08:40:27 yep +08:40:36 ah, cool, I'll keep that in mind +08:40:37 #action aarow_ look into gerrit update +08:40:39 although, he's in the UK, right? +08:41:02 yep, but he is connected most of the time +08:41:14 well, I'll send him an email +08:41:38 great +08:41:56 thanks aarow_ +08:42:05 aarow_: note: he will have a totara email address. as he just switched as of today. +08:42:14 next topic? +08:42:23 yep +08:42:31 yep +08:42:33 #topic Next meeting and chair +08:42:41 what about Thursday, 5th of June 2014 at 8 p.m. UTC (9 p.m. UK, 10 p.m. Europe)? +08:43:03 what does it make in NZ? +08:43:12 8 am the next day +08:43:23 so June 6, 8am? +08:43:28 which means what for Sydney? +08:43:29 true, forgot NZ )) +08:43:40 um... 4 am Sydney I think? +08:43:41 yeah, I suppose :) I am back from 1 month holiday on 3rd :) +08:43:47 6 am for sydney +08:44:03 can we make it 8:30pm UTC? +08:44:05 sydney is only 2 hours behind wellington, aarow_ :-) +08:44:20 that extra half hour... +08:44:21 I think if we want to accommodate people in the UK, Aus, and NZ, we need to stick with around 8pm UTC +08:44:26 I mean, 8am UTC +08:44:50 not to forget japan if jono finds time +08:44:56 doesn't matter for me, so pick whatever suits others +08:45:08 8am UTC works for me. +08:45:11 8am is fine for me as well +08:45:22 I just thought we are swapping am/pm each time +08:45:29 either works for me. +08:45:40 rkabalin: we haven’t done so lately to accommodate australia a bit better +08:45:48 OK, 8am then? +08:45:51 8am UTC is fine for me +08:45:55 ok for me +08:45:55 esp. at the time andrew in perth, but now it’s more likely that ghada will join regularly +08:46:14 that would be great. +08:46:21 Yes, the last few meetings, since we've had more Australian presence, we've been sticking with one time. Of course, this makes it the middle of the night in the US, but if any Americans start wanting to attend we can go back to alternating the times. ;) +08:46:39 good plan :) +08:47:06 #agreed 33rd Mahara dev meeting on Thursday, 5th of June, at 8 a.m. UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+33rd+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140605T09&p1=1344 +08:47:57 #undo +08:47:57 Removing item from minutes: +08:48:08 #agreed 33rd Mahara dev meeting on Thursday, 5th of June, at 8 a.m. UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+33rd+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140605T08 +08:48:14 ^ in UTC +08:48:16 yep. that’s the better link :-) +08:48:38 who is willing to chair? +08:49:07 at last meeting yulia volunteered? +08:49:24 i WAS volunteered :P +08:49:28 or was it tow meetings ao? +08:49:31 ago? +08:49:38 :) +08:49:39 yuliyabozhko1 would you like to chair? +08:49:46 I am leaving next week and coming back on June 3rd +08:50:09 so, If you don't mind that I will be a bit out of date on everything that is happening, I can do +08:50:53 I think that is fine, you will always have an agend to look at aand others to help +08:50:57 and someone will have to tell me how to run meetings :) +08:51:05 cool then +08:51:13 #info yuliyabozhko1 to chair the 33nd Mahara dev meeting +08:51:20 running meeting is easy +08:51:26 :) +08:51:29 https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/Chair_Duties +08:51:34 yuliabozhko1: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/Chair_Duties +08:51:37 awesome, thanks +08:51:52 the commands are pretty easy +08:52:08 and you can use logs from previous meeting for reference +08:52:18 yep, will have a look at that +08:52:23 rotating the chair duties helps us all to learn them and then use them thus putting less pressure on the chairperson :-) +08:52:23 thanks! +08:52:44 :) fair enough +08:52:48 it also helps to have the topic lines etc. already prepared so that you don’t have to type them up during the meeting +08:52:58 but can just copy and paste. +08:53:35 good to know :) +08:53:53 ok, next topic +08:54:00 also helps in other circumstances when you want to introduce your own topics +08:54:03 and give background info +08:54:11 #topic Any other business +08:54:13 I have one... +08:54:31 me too +08:54:50 ok, anzeljg go on first +08:55:01 Can we discuss it a bit more, to know what to expect or where this thing would turn? +08:55:09 A proposal is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1314465 +08:55:18 Can we discuss it a bit more, to know what to expect or where this thing would turn? +08:55:19 .. +08:55:39 Local hook for adding custom sideblocks: I'm working on a project where I need to add custom sideblocks... +08:55:50 looks useful +08:55:51 sorry: wrong copy-paste :) +08:56:25 That's the bug for "Local hook for adding custom sideblocks", seems correct +08:56:51 #info anzeljg porposes Local hook for adding custom sideblocks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1314465 +08:56:55 the order of pasted lines... +08:57:04 arrow had different oppinion on that? +08:57:21 right, well, I'm fine with adding the local hook +08:57:27 I am not sure if block should be a plugin +08:57:44 but, I think in addition to that, if we want to really provide support for sideblocks, it'd make sense to make them a full-featured plugin type +08:58:05 The main thing I haven't been able to figure out is how a sideblock plugin would tell you what pages it should appear on +08:58:11 it is plugin in Moodle though, but for mahara they are more like information containing section rather than course elements +08:58:36 For anyone who's unfamiliar with how sideblocks currently work, I wrote up a page about it on the wiki: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Sideblocks_API +08:59:13 #info aarow_ wrote page about blocks functionality in Mahara: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Sideblocks_API +08:59:28 The way I envision it, sideblock plugins would not be something that users decide to add. Rather... they would just show up, on the relevant pages, much like the core sideblocks do +09:00:00 I can think of plenty of use-cases where an organization might want to add additional types of sideblocks to Mahara +09:00:02 so, it's determined by the group - a setting there. +09:00:15 ? +09:00:29 well, that's the tricky part. The way sideblocks currently work, is there are hard-coded "if" statements in the smarty() method in lib/web.php +09:00:42 these examine various things about the page being loaded, and decide which sideblocks are appropriate +09:00:48 to explain my situation: i will have to add a sideblock which will display different links in different groups (if that helps) +09:00:52 like the "login" sideblock, the profile sideblock, etc +09:01:23 additionally, a page can request that specific sideblocks be displayed on it using a parameter to the smarty() method. This is how the user file quote sideblock shows up +09:01:46 so, requesting specific sideblocks on specific pages would work for, say, a sideblock that comes along with an artefact plugin, that wants to add the sideblock to pages dealing with that artefact +09:02:03 but in the case anzeljg is describing, you'd have to modify the /group pages in order to use the smarty() param method to load that sideblock +09:02:46 I am aware of that, but the soulution should (if possible) not change core files... +09:02:59 I guess one possibility I was considering, is that each sideblock plugin could have its own "should I show up on this page?" method that gets called on each page load +09:03:17 that would look much like the sample local_sideblocks() method that anzeljg posted to that bug +09:03:17 could you, maybe optionally/additionally, register sideblocks with the menu path? +09:05:12 yeah, examining the menu path is one way the sideblocks could decide whether they should show up or not +09:05:35 I think for now hook is easier solution that will work for anzeljg problem, if someone is willing to develop a proper plugin infrastructure for blocks, they could do that when needed. +09:05:37 I think that's what I did in sample method :) +09:06:00 rkabalin: yeah, that's what I was thinking +09:06:13 anzeljg's hook is a low-effort way to at least make custom sideblocks possible +09:06:26 yep +09:06:33 great +09:06:52 hm, and I think just from describing this to you all I've got some more ideas about how to handle sideblocks as a full-fledged plugin ;) +09:07:19 great * 2 +09:07:29 power of brainstorming! +09:07:33 why wouldn't you allow administrators to disable the sidblock-plugin? +09:07:37 aarow_ feel free to create wiki page with feature proposal +09:07:51 and implement it +09:07:52 ;) +09:08:01 :D +09:08:08 tobiasz: If we made sideblocks into a full plugin type, admins would be able to disable them using the Extensions page +09:08:22 hm, I think it might actually be easier for admins to disable them, in fact +09:08:42 currently there isn't really any way to do that, except that many of the sideblocks have their own $CFG setting to enable/disable them +09:09:14 and anzeljg's new local hook would also let you remove specific sideblocks, since it takes the whole $SIDEBLOCKS array as a param +09:09:45 we'd still keep the user sideblock, etc visible. It wouldn't be disabled... +09:10:23 or is that also up to the admin? +09:10:38 Yes, if I turned sideblocks into a full-fledged plugin type, then all the existing sideblocks would get turned into sideblock plugins, and we'd make sure the upgrade script displays them all the same as it currently does +09:11:05 the main difference would be, that if they were a plugin type, it would be easier for 3rd party devs to write new sideblock types +09:11:19 also, sideblocks could potentially have their own crons, configs, and all the other things that go along with being a Mahara plugin type +09:11:37 shall we move sideblocks discussion to the next meeting as separate item then? +09:11:42 would reduce core hacking... +09:12:27 I don't think it even needs to be on the agenda for next time +09:12:42 If I write up a proposal, I'll add that to the agenda. :) +09:12:50 otherwise, we can just leave it off +09:13:04 ok, thanks +09:13:09 sounds good +09:13:11 anzeljg's patch just needs to be verified and merged +09:13:37 anyway, nothing further on that topic +09:14:13 thanks aarow_ +09:14:41 anitsirk you had another item to discuss +09:14:49 i just wanted to invite everyone to raise their virtual glasses in celebration of the release of mahara 1.9. It's been almost three weeks now that we had yet another release with great features. thank you to everyone who contributed to make it possible. +09:15:23 :) yay! +09:15:23 **clinking of glasses +09:15:27 cheers +09:15:32 cheers +09:15:33 cheers +09:15:35 cheers +09:15:37 (in the toasting sense, rather than the NZ "thanks" sense ;) ) +09:16:13 cheers +09:16:14 :D +09:16:34 that’s it from me. +09:16:42 thanks anitsirk +09:16:56 anything else we missed? +09:17:17 no? +09:17:18 i think you got it all. +09:17:19 can't think of anything +09:17:23 ok +09:17:25 #endmeeting \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-05-01-08.01.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-05-01-08.01.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..f9e0e35e488d360e42111025d56e1e9f84757339 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-05-01-08.01.txt @@ -0,0 +1,136 @@ +=================== +#mahara-dev Meeting +=================== + + +Meeting started by rkabalin at 08:01:37 UTC. The full logs are available +at +http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-05-01-08.01.log.html +. + + + +Meeting summary +--------------- +* anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, New Zealand + (anitsirk, 08:01:53) +* tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany + (tobiasz, 08:01:59) +* anzeljg is Gregor Anželj, developer and translator from Gimnazija + Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia (anzeljg, 08:02:00) +* rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, UK (rkabalin, + 08:02:10) +* aarow_ is Aaron Wells in sunny Wellington New Zealand (aarow_, + 08:02:12) +* ghada is Ghada El-Zoghbi, develper at Catalyst IT, Sydney, Australia + (ghada, 08:02:36) +* Items from last meeting (rkabalin, 08:02:57) + * everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the + Ljubljana group (rkabalin, 08:03:10) + * LINK: https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 + (anitsirk, 08:05:18) + * ACTION: everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by + the Ljubliana group (rkabalin, 08:05:26) + * LINK: https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 + (rkabalin, 08:06:21) + * anzeljg to write forum post / forum posts letting community members + know about the usability improvement suggestions made in Ljubljana + (rkabalin, 08:07:50) + * LINK: https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 + (rkabalin, 08:08:05) + * aarow_ to see how many files have a whitespace problem. (rkabalin, + 08:08:56) + * ACTION: aarow_ do some tests and see how much of a rebase problem + such a commit would cause (rkabalin, 08:20:21) + * rkabalin_ to update the dev documentation to reintroduce the + requirement for avoiding trailing whitespaces (rkabalin, 08:20:35) + * LINK: + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Coding_guidelines#Whitespace + (rkabalin, 08:20:44) + * sonn1, Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ (sonn1, 08:23:25) + * aarow_ to update gerrit and launchpad settings to include the 3 new + mahara core devs (rkabalin, 08:24:23) + +* Mahara clone on github (rkabalin, 08:24:56) + * LINK: https://github.com/maharaproject (aarow_, 08:25:38) + * Mahara repo on github.com https://github.com/maharaproject + (rkabalin, 08:26:05) + * github clon of mahara is being synced in 1 to 5 minutes + automatically using the gerrit replication plugin (rkabalin, + 08:30:38) + * ACTION: aarow_ and everyone really: always look both ways before + crossing the street (rkabalin, 08:36:55) + * ACTION: aarow_ look into gerrit update (rkabalin, 08:40:37) + +* Next meeting and chair (rkabalin, 08:42:33) + * AGREED: 33rd Mahara dev meeting on Thursday, 5th of June, at 8 a.m. + UTC: + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+33rd+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140605T08 + (rkabalin, 08:48:08) + * yuliyabozhko1 to chair the 33nd Mahara dev meeting (rkabalin, + 08:51:13) + * LINK: + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/Chair_Duties + (rkabalin, 08:51:29) + +* Any other business (rkabalin, 08:54:11) + * anzeljg porposes Local hook for adding custom sideblocks: + https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1314465 (rkabalin, 08:56:51) + * aarow_ wrote page about blocks functionality in Mahara: + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Sideblocks_API + (rkabalin, 08:59:13) + +Meeting ended at 09:17:25 UTC. + + + + +Action Items +------------ +* everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the + Ljubliana group +* aarow_ do some tests and see how much of a rebase problem such a + commit would cause +* aarow_ and everyone really: always look both ways before crossing the + street +* aarow_ look into gerrit update + + + + +Action Items, by person +----------------------- +* aarow_ + * aarow_ do some tests and see how much of a rebase problem such a + commit would cause + * aarow_ and everyone really: always look both ways before crossing + the street + * aarow_ look into gerrit update +* **UNASSIGNED** + * everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the + Ljubliana group + + + + +People Present (lines said) +--------------------------- +* rkabalin (105) +* aarow_ (85) +* anitsirk (36) +* yuliyabozhko1 (33) +* anzeljg (27) +* ghada (25) +* yuliyabozhko (10) +* tobiasz (7) +* maharameet (4) +* sonn1 (3) +* yuliyab (2) +* tonyb (1) + + + + +Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 + +.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-06-05-08.15.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-06-05-08.15.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..fccb4eb65e632005944888cb80d47a2079ec788a --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-06-05-08.15.html @@ -0,0 +1,301 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev Meeting + + + + +

#mahara-dev Meeting

+ +Meeting started by yuliyabozhko at 08:15:21 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Meeting summary

+
    +
  1. +
      +
    1. ghada is Ghada El-Zoghbi, developer at Catalyst + IT, Sydney, AU (ghada, + 08:16:51)
    2. +
    3. tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, + Karlsruhe, Germany (tobiasz, + 08:16:53)
    4. +
    5. anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, + Wellington, NZ (anitsirk, + 08:16:54)
    6. +
    7. yuliya is Yuliya Bozhko, developer at + TotaraLMS, Wellington, NZ (yuliyabozhko, + 08:17:01)
    8. +
    9. rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster + University, UK (rkabalin, + 08:17:23)
    10. +
    11. sonn_ is Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington, + NZ (sonn_, + 08:17:26)
    12. +
    13. robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, + Wellington, NZ (robertl_, + 08:17:29)
    14. +
    15. irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#info simoncoggins1 + is Simon Coggins, TotaraLMS, Wellington, NZ (simoncoggins1, + 08:17:29)
    16. +
    17. simoncoggins1 is Simon Coggins, TotaraLMS, + Wellington, NZ (simoncoggins1, + 08:17:55)
    18. +
    19. aarowlaptop is Aaron G. Wells of Catalyst in + Wellington NZ (anitsirk, + 08:18:51)
    20. +
    +
  2. +
  3. Items from last meeting (yuliyabozhko, 08:19:09) +
      +
    1. everyone to look at list of enhancement + suggestions made by the Ljubljana group (yuliyabozhko, + 08:19:14)
    2. +
    3. AGREED: everyone need + to comment on the individual items from enhancement list in the + forums / bugs and then talk about them if needed (yuliyabozhko, + 08:19:35)
    4. +
    5. https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 + (yuliyabozhko, + 08:19:54)
    6. +
    7. aarowlaptop look into gerrit update + (yuliyabozhko, + 08:20:12)
    8. +
    9. ACTION: aarowlaptop + look into gerrit update (yuliyabozhko, + 08:22:40)
    10. +
    +
  4. +
  5.  tobiasz on non-reusable textboxes: new block type or diversified interface for existing one (yuliyabozhko, 08:23:12) +
      +
    1. users complain about text boxes in copied pages + where they don’t see the hint and accidentally overwrite the + original text. (anitsirk, + 08:24:29)
    2. +
    3. https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 + (aarowlaptop, + 08:25:23)
    4. +
    5. https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 + (yuliyabozhko, + 08:25:38)
    6. +
    7. IDEA: 1) make it + distinguishable in one block that you can have re-usable notes and + those that can’t be re-used (anitsirk, + 08:26:22)
    8. +
    9. IDEA: 2) have two + different blocktypes because then the non-reusable text snippets can + have a simpler interface (anitsirk, + 08:26:44)
    10. +
    11. IDEA: have a confirm + prompt when saving a textbox alerting user that it will change in + other places - giving them options 'ok' 'no make copy' or + 'cancel' (yuliyabozhko, + 08:42:58)
    12. +
    13. IDEA: there should be + two different text blocktypes and that the re-usable one needs some + more usability work to make it clear that text will be replaced + elsewhere if not copied. (anitsirk, + 08:46:07)
    14. +
    15. ACTION: everyone have + a look at discussion forum and bug listing + https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 if anything can be + added to the discussion (yuliyabozhko, + 08:46:44)
    16. +
    17. https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1152441 + (anitsirk, + 08:47:30)
    18. +
    19. IDEA: in order to hook + it into elasticsearch it may well need to be an artefact on the + backend... just not an artefact that is viewable and editable on its + own (anitsirk, + 08:54:27)
    20. +
    +
  6. +
  7.  Yuliya on reviewing patches from Totara (yuliyabozhko, 08:58:40) +
      +
    1. https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/3374/ + (simoncoggins1, + 09:06:28)
    2. +
    +
  8. +
  9.  aarowlaptop on allowing anonymous-author portfolio pages (yuliyabozhko, 09:08:42) +
      +
    1. + https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/548021 (yuliyabozhko, + 09:08:51)
    2. +
    3. ACTION: aarowlaptop + contact Gregor to get more information/use cases on anonymous + pages (yuliyabozhko, + 09:21:02)
    4. +
    +
  10. +
  11. Next meeting and chair (yuliyabozhko, 09:22:46) +
      +
    1. AGREED: 34th Mahara + dev meeting on Thursday, 10th of July 2014 at 8 AM UTC (9 AM UK, 10 + AM Europe, 8 PM NZ) (yuliyabozhko, + 09:24:35)
    2. +
    3. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20140710T08 + (yuliyabozhko, + 09:24:45)
    4. +
    5. robertl_ to chair the 34th Mahara dev + meeting (yuliyabozhko, + 09:28:55)
    6. +
    +
  12. +
  13. Any other business (yuliyabozhko, 09:29:01) +
      +
    1. please fill in the questionnaire for Moodle + Mahara integration and pass it on to anybody you know who has an + interest: + https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1vyECf8s8lyEX6YJuf9SGe7sUN5flaROcfBF7mPxY9fc/viewform + (anitsirk, + 09:29:56)
    2. +
    3. The University of Canberra is funding major + work for Mahara: archiving of pages and making the Mahara assignment + submission plugin work over LTI. base specs are at + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development/Moodle_LTI_integration + (anitsirk, + 09:33:43)
    4. +
    +
  14. +
+

+ + + + +Meeting ended at 09:37:39 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Action items

+
    +
  1. aarowlaptop look into gerrit update
  2. +
  3. everyone have a look at discussion forum and bug listing https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 if anything can be added to the discussion
  4. +
  5. aarowlaptop contact Gregor to get more information/use cases on anonymous pages
  6. +
+

+ + + +

Action items, by person

+
    +
  1. aarowlaptop
      +
    1. aarowlaptop look into gerrit update
    2. +
    3. aarowlaptop contact Gregor to get more information/use cases on anonymous pages
    4. +
  2. +
+

+ + + +

People present (lines said)

+
    +
  1. yuliyabozhko (113)
  2. +
  3. anitsirk (95)
  4. +
  5. aarowlaptop (49)
  6. +
  7. tobiasz (48)
  8. +
  9. ghada (34)
  10. +
  11. robertl_ (22)
  12. +
  13. simoncoggins1 (11)
  14. +
  15. rkabalin (7)
  16. +
  17. maharameet (2)
  18. +
  19. dobedobedoh (2)
  20. +
  21. sonn_ (1)
  22. +
+

+ + + +Generated by MeetBot 0.1.4. + diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-06-05-08.15.log.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-06-05-08.15.log.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..5783170581b38567c582dc6f2b5541f403a0ed21 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-06-05-08.15.log.html @@ -0,0 +1,411 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev log + + + + +
08:15:21 <yuliyabozhko> #startmeeting
+08:15:21 <maharameet> Meeting started Thu Jun  5 08:15:21 2014 UTC.  The chair is yuliyabozhko. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
+08:15:21 <maharameet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
+08:15:38 <yuliyabozhko> thanks dobedobedoh
+08:15:43 <anitsirk> thank you dobedobedoh
+08:15:47 <dobedobedoh> ghada: It's running on my personal VM
+08:15:51 <yuliyabozhko> shall we carry on?
+08:16:17 <yuliyabozhko> someone should write meetbot instructions
+08:16:20 <ghada> intros again?
+08:16:33 <anitsirk> might be easier than trying to combine things later
+08:16:38 <yuliyabozhko> yeah, we just started anyway
+08:16:51 <ghada> #info ghada is Ghada El-Zoghbi, developer at Catalyst IT, Sydney, AU
+08:16:53 <tobiasz> #info tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany
+08:16:54 <anitsirk> #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:17:01 <yuliyabozhko> #info yuliya is Yuliya Bozhko, developer at TotaraLMS, Wellington, NZ
+08:17:06 <rkabalin> May be we can intro, and then someone copy-paste previous discussion you had before meetbot woke up
+08:17:10 <anitsirk> yuliyabozhko: you’d need to paste the agreed action. i think it only shows up from you as chair
+08:17:23 <rkabalin> #info rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, UK
+08:17:26 <sonn_> #info sonn_ is Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:17:29 <robertl_> #info robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:17:29 <simoncoggins1> irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#info simoncoggins1 is Simon Coggins, TotaraLMS, Wellington, NZ
+08:17:33 <yuliyabozhko> anitsirk: will do
+08:17:39 <simoncoggins1> oops
+08:17:55 <simoncoggins1> #info simoncoggins1 is Simon Coggins, TotaraLMS, Wellington, NZ
+08:18:04 <yuliyabozhko> dobedobedoh: can you please introduce yourself for the meeting minutes too?
+08:18:49 <yuliyabozhko> if that's everyone, we can carry on then :)
+08:18:51 <anitsirk> #info aarowlaptop is Aaron G. Wells of Catalyst in Wellington NZ
+08:19:07 <anitsirk> yep, carry on
+08:19:09 <yuliyabozhko> #topic Items from last meeting
+08:19:14 <yuliyabozhko> #info everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the Ljubljana group
+08:19:35 <yuliyabozhko> #agreed everyone need to comment on the individual items from enhancement list in the forums / bugs and then talk about them if needed
+08:19:44 <yuliyabozhko> I am just adding what we agreed on
+08:19:54 <yuliyabozhko> #link https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283
+08:19:55 <anitsirk> yep. that’s fine
+08:20:12 <yuliyabozhko> #info aarowlaptop look into gerrit update
+08:20:30 <yuliyabozhko> did you have a chance to look at it, aarowlaptop?
+08:20:46 <aarowlaptop> No, I haven't looked into that yet
+08:21:09 <yuliyabozhko> gerrit is currently on version 2.6.1 and can be updated to 2.8.5 which has quite useful features
+08:21:29 <aarowlaptop> Yep, I'm definitely in favor of upgrading, just haven't gotten round to it yet.
+08:21:38 <yuliyabozhko> would you like me to added to the next meeting agenda?
+08:22:17 <yuliyabozhko> or would you prefer someone else looks into that?
+08:22:17 <aarowlaptop> Sure
+08:22:30 <aarowlaptop> We should still upgrade, so you can put it on the next meeting agenda
+08:22:36 <yuliyabozhko> ok
+08:22:40 <yuliyabozhko> #action aarowlaptop look into gerrit update
+08:23:05 <dobedobedoh> dobedobedoh: is Andrew Nicols @ Moodle Pty Limited
+08:23:12 <yuliyabozhko> #topic tobiasz on non-reusable textboxes: new block type or diversified interface for existing one
+08:23:30 <tobiasz> We repeatedly had users complain about text boxes in copied pages, when they didn't notice the hint about the shared notes artefact and accidently overwrote the content of the original page. You find the discussion in the forum here: https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6257
+08:23:39 <tobiasz> I'll give a quick summary
+08:23:57 <tobiasz> I had found an old discussion touching that topic when the feature of reusable text boxes was announced (in 2011) and I think the idea back there was to add a switch to the text box between the reusable/artefact-related functionality and a plain version. Aaron, however, had the idea to split the functionality into two separate block types.
+08:24:09 <tobiasz> I think the solution with two artefacts is cleaner, but it should be clear to users, which one is which. Aaron suggested the non-artefact-related block type to offer a simplified interface (e.g. no file attachments).
+08:24:24 <tobiasz> My idea was to move the complete editing functionality for the notes to the content panel and on the portfolio level only select the note artefact - where Kristina objected that users want to create content on the portfolio view.
+08:24:29 <anitsirk> #info users complain about text boxes in copied pages where they don’t see the hint and accidentally overwrite the original text.
+08:24:30 <tobiasz> So I'd like to clarify, if we want two add a switch to the existing checkboxes or rather two separate block types - and if so, how to distinguish them so users don't get confused about which one to use.
+08:24:47 <yuliyabozhko> did you mention that it was on enhancements suggestion from Gregor's list?
+08:25:08 <aarowlaptop> This was item 2 on Gregor's list
+08:25:09 <tobiasz> ah, sorry, forgot that. It's also on the list of the enhancements from the Ljubljana group
+08:25:15 <aarowlaptop> "Copying of Textboxes should create real copies"
+08:25:22 <anitsirk> it had already come u pbefore gregor’s list though
+08:25:23 <aarowlaptop> https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390
+08:25:26 <aarowlaptop> yep
+08:25:38 <yuliyabozhko> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390
+08:26:05 <aarowlaptop> Yeah, my favored way of doing this is to create two separate block types -- one for one-off text, and another for reusable notes
+08:26:22 <anitsirk> #idea 1) make it distinguishable in one block that you can have re-usable notes and those that can’t be re-used
+08:26:44 <anitsirk> #idea 2) have two different blocktypes because then the non-reusable text snippets can have a simpler interface
+08:27:17 <anitsirk> i think that would be the best. the re-usable interface is already quite complex. adding yet another layer may be too much.
+08:27:23 <tobiasz> I also favor the second idea, I think it easier to explain that to the user
+08:27:43 <yuliyabozhko> hmm, it should be made clear enough to users
+08:28:10 <anitsirk> while i favor that re-usable text boxes should stil be able to be created on a page itself, i think it should also be possible to create them under content. it’s the only artefact that cannot be created there but only edited
+08:28:13 <ghada> i think users will also want to 'convert' one to the other.
+08:28:22 <anitsirk> ghada: good point
+08:28:37 <aarowlaptop> maybe
+08:28:44 <yuliyabozhko> yeah, might get complicated
+08:28:56 <tobiasz> Aaron suggested rename the actual textbox blocktype to "note" and call the new, non-copiable block type one text
+08:28:57 <yuliyabozhko> does anyone want to write down some ideas on bug listing?
+08:28:59 <anitsirk> you might start out with a non-reusable one but then realize that it’s gotten so long / important that it would be good to keep. however, it might be easier to just copy and paste
+08:29:00 <ghada> i agree but there will be voices out there
+08:29:36 <anitsirk> ghada: it could be a future enhancement :-)
+08:29:37 <ghada> yes, copy/paste is always available.
+08:29:41 <ghada> exactly.
+08:29:42 <aarowlaptop> yeah, future enhancement ;)
+08:30:21 <anitsirk> i think fixing up the current functionality is more important. i also noticed that notes do not ever get deleted even when they don’t exist in pages anymore.
+08:30:22 <tobiasz> We have very small communities on mahara here, but I don't know any of our users, that uses the copyable feature on purpose. Are there users out htere that use them frequently?
+08:30:28 <robertl_> how would existing text blocks be migrated? would they be notes or new textboxes?
+08:30:34 <anitsirk> tobiasz: i do
+08:30:39 <tobiasz> ok :)
+08:30:58 <anitsirk> i use it when i have similar text for templates for example or when creating a series of pages that are fairly similar
+08:31:12 <ghada> yes, one client (a school) does hits here in Sydney
+08:31:15 <anitsirk> sure. i could just copy and paste, but it’s quite handy that the title is available as well as all the formatting
+08:31:35 <ghada> and, we've got an outstanding bug for months now.
+08:31:41 <tobiasz> I wouldn't migrate any existing block types, though it doesn't help with huge list of notes that you can already choose from, from which most are not intended to be copied
+08:31:41 <yuliyabozhko> I haven't used them much
+08:31:53 <anitsirk> but in general, it would be better to not be connected to the original from the start i think but choose that only if you want to stay connected to it.
+08:32:17 <aarowlaptop> Could be that when you delete a note, if it's used in any pages you have the option to "downgrade" those into standalone text blocks
+08:32:20 <anitsirk> ghada: i think that bug is different and related to their portal / firewall
+08:32:25 <aarowlaptop> that would be a relatively simple migration path
+08:32:31 <anitsirk> the copying functionality itself works as intended.
+08:32:32 <tobiasz> anitsirk: that would be one interface for both?
+08:32:39 <ghada> funny, these clients want it connected to the original text and are complaining that it's not linked.
+08:33:00 <anitsirk> tobiasz: that’s the tricky bit.
+08:33:01 <ghada> anitsirk: this is a different one. I fixed the firewall/portal issue.
+08:33:14 <anitsirk> ah ok, ghada. good to know that that works now :-)
+08:33:27 <yuliyabozhko> :)
+08:33:42 <anitsirk> tobiasz: starting out with not being connected i think is trickier than the current behavior because you’d do it retroactivtlye
+08:33:57 <anitsirk> to best not open that can of worms.
+08:33:57 <robertl_> good to hear the portal issue is fixed :)
+08:34:14 <ghada> robertl_: "fudged"....
+08:34:24 <ghada> :)
+08:34:25 <robertl_> lol
+08:34:29 <tobiasz> But many users don't notice that the content is connected, especially new users
+08:35:10 <anitsirk> yes. we’ve pondered using a pop-up box but that can also be quite intrusive esp. once you’ve got it and still need to click them away all the time
+08:35:11 <ghada> tobiasz: i agree. and the ones who do use this functionality, get it confused.
+08:35:43 <ghada> can we actually have it "look" different?
+08:35:57 <anitsirk> ghada: in what wa?
+08:35:57 <yuliyabozhko> that could be one of the options
+08:35:58 <anitsirk> way?
+08:35:59 <robertl_> would it be worth having some indication on edit screen that the textbox is linked? like some header to the textbox in a bright colour letting them know
+08:36:03 <ghada> different colour background, more rounded corners, i don't know...
+08:36:13 <anitsirk> robertl_: it’s already there in red ;-)
+08:36:20 <tobiasz> From a new user perspective I would imagine it more the other way round: you write a text and then notice, that this is a snippet/note, you would like to keep for another page
+08:36:27 <robertl_> not in the config form but the edit page
+08:37:33 <yuliyabozhko> if reusable items and non-reusable items are in different categories, they would be seen as different
+08:37:36 <ghada> there's already a message at the top to inform the users that this if they make changes, it will change the original
+08:37:55 <tobiasz> robertl: I like that idea, I think if we'd stick with one blocktype, the difference should be more notorious than just a little switch or a small red text
+08:38:12 <anitsirk> having two blocktypes would make it clearer i think
+08:38:24 <tobiasz> noticable, not notoriuous
+08:38:25 <yuliyabozhko> I agree with anitsirk
+08:38:25 <anitsirk> adding more to the edit screen might be overloading that one. it’s already very busy
+08:38:54 <anitsirk> because then users would make a conscious choice between just having plain text vs. creating something they can re-use.
+08:38:56 <aarowlaptop> yeah, that was my thought
+08:39:03 <yuliyabozhko> it can be one block with two options
+08:39:17 <ghada> anitsirk: agreed.
+08:39:24 <anitsirk> and you probably only re-use in very specific cases. i re-use text boxes for similar content or for the same content, in particular instructions on templates
+08:39:47 <yuliyabozhko> any other ideas?
+08:39:50 <anitsirk> there i really only want to update one copy of the textbox and have it updated in 10 other pages without having to go into every single one and update the textobx manually
+08:40:42 <anitsirk> i guess we’d need to figure out what to do with the current notes. what about having those that were re-used as re-usable blocktypes and the rest as simple text?
+08:40:43 <robertl_> would having a confirm prompt when saving a textbox alerting user that it will change in other places - giving them options 'ok' 'no make copy' or 'cancel' be useful
+08:40:52 <tobiasz> From a portfolio perspective, I think the usual case for reusable elements would be, create a note on the content-area and select it in the portfolio view
+08:41:57 <anitsirk> tobiasz: there i’d still like to be able to create re-usable item directly in the portfolio. a number of people complain about the process of having to go into content first and then needing to put it onto a portfolio page instead of starting on the portfolio page.
+08:42:16 <yuliyabozhko> tobiasz: I think we are trying to get away from this workflow as it is not very user friendly
+08:42:32 <anitsirk> robertl_: hadn’t thought of that. sounds like the best idea so far for the re-usable ones to me
+08:42:36 <tobiasz> ok, I agree with that
+08:42:58 <yuliyabozhko> #idea have a confirm prompt when saving a textbox alerting user that it will change in other places - giving them options 'ok' 'no make copy' or 'cancel'
+08:43:46 <anitsirk> what about just having three buttons then instead of a popup which would be an additional click?
+08:43:46 <yuliyabozhko> so, any action on this topic?
+08:44:30 <anitsirk> i guess it’s back to discussing a bit more on the forum / tracker to come up with the plan to untangle things.
+08:44:45 <aarowlaptop> Yeah, let's work it out on the bug tracker, now that we've had some discussion about it here
+08:44:58 <robertl_> sounds good
+08:45:01 <tobiasz> ok
+08:45:04 <ghada> yes.
+08:45:09 <yuliyabozhko> should this be a task for everyone interested?
+08:45:12 <anitsirk> i think we agree that there should be two different blocktypes and that the re-usable one needs some more usability work to make it clear that text will be replaced elsewhere if not copied.
+08:45:42 <robertl_> that sums it up nicely I recon
+08:45:59 <yuliyabozhko> ok
+08:46:07 <anitsirk> #idea there should be two different text blocktypes and that the re-usable one needs some more usability work to make it clear that text will be replaced elsewhere if not copied.
+08:46:44 <yuliyabozhko> #action everyone have a look at discussion forum and bug  listing https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 if anything can be added to the discussion
+08:47:14 <tobiasz> can I start working on the new block type or is that also subject to discuss?
+08:47:27 <anitsirk> it’s https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1152441
+08:47:30 <anitsirk> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1152441
+08:47:43 <anitsirk> tobiasz: which blocktype? the simple text one?
+08:47:54 <tobiasz> yep, the simple one
+08:48:15 <yuliyabozhko> if we agreed, that we need two blocktypes, why nor
+08:48:21 <aarowlaptop> tobiasz: Sure, I'd say go ahead
+08:48:35 <anitsirk> my opinion for that in terms of functionality: Title, Description, Tags. And then a way of migrating existing single “notes” to that.
+08:48:37 <tobiasz> ok, great
+08:48:43 <yuliyabozhko> do I need to add this to actions?
+08:48:45 <anitsirk> I don’t think we need comments on the simple text
+08:48:56 <anitsirk> yuliyabozhko: i don’t think so.
+08:49:06 <yuliyabozhko> ok, thanks
+08:49:10 <tobiasz> agreed, no comments
+08:49:12 <aarowlaptop> I don't think it really needs tags for that matter
+08:49:14 <anitsirk> unless you want to make tobiasz to report back next time ;-)
+08:49:22 <robertl_> it would be good to see something in action as that will help clarify what we want
+08:49:24 <yuliyabozhko> very tempting :D
+08:49:34 <aarowlaptop> Yeah, good idea
+08:49:42 <tobiasz> fine with me ^^
+08:49:46 <anitsirk> tags: mhh. probably not since it’s just a line of text or so
+08:50:00 <tobiasz> also agreed, no need for tags
+08:50:16 <ghada> so, it won't have any attached files, etc?
+08:50:33 <yuliyabozhko> that's the point of being "simple" I guess :)
+08:50:44 <ghada> ok, sounds good to me.
+08:51:03 <tobiasz> my idea of simple was about not being connected to an artefact, but I'm fine without the files
+08:51:27 <yuliyabozhko> :) ah, right
+08:51:39 <ghada> any opinions?
+08:51:59 <aarowlaptop> although from an implementation perspective... in order to hook it into elasticsearch it may well need to be an artefact on the backend... just not an artefact that is viewable and editable on its own
+08:52:04 <anitsirk> tobiasz: so pretty much go back to what the textbox used to be back in the day.
+08:52:11 <aarowlaptop> sort of like how commenst are technically artefacts
+08:52:26 <tobiasz> aarow: are they?
+08:52:31 <aarowlaptop> yeah :)
+08:52:37 <yuliyabozhko> yep, they are
+08:53:30 <tobiasz> that's for when you use the elasticsearch to search the pages?
+08:53:34 <aarowlaptop> Hm, actually I'll take a look at it
+08:54:11 <aarowlaptop> No, comments were written before the Elasticsearch stuff. I'm not sure why they're artefacts exactly, except that it's kind of a convenient way to store them
+08:54:25 <tobiasz> I haven't worked with elastic search so far, but other block types also have titles and such. I'll have a look at that as well
+08:54:27 <anitsirk> #idea in order to hook it into elasticsearch it may well need to be an artefact on the backend... just not an artefact that is viewable and editable on its own
+08:54:41 <aarowlaptop> Okay, I'll check into that tomorrow
+08:54:52 <tobiasz> ok, great
+08:54:57 <ghada> will it also appear in the notes section?
+08:55:01 <aarowlaptop> I think you're right, it would be easier and simpler to just store the text in the block
+08:55:11 <aarowlaptop> artefacts are mainly meant for reuse, and this will not be reusable
+08:55:13 <tobiasz> no, it won't appear in the notes section
+08:56:07 <yuliyabozhko> anything else on this?
+08:56:12 <tobiasz> I'm done
+08:56:13 <anitsirk> but would you want to share them in some sort of stream maybe, yuliyabozhko?
+08:56:13 <aarowlaptop> not from me
+08:56:14 <ghada> ok. i think we're ok on this
+08:56:53 <ghada> i think we keep it simple.
+08:57:15 <aarowlaptop> what's next on the agenda, yuliya?
+08:57:15 <tobiasz> and the watchlist event should be triggered anyways
+08:57:20 <anitsirk> but if it’s simple to write, people will use it for longer things that they may want to share and not re-use.
+08:57:24 <yuliyabozhko> anything we would like to check about this topic next meeting?
+08:57:32 <yuliyabozhko> to add to actions
+08:57:41 <yuliyabozhko> if not, moving on :)
+08:58:25 <aarowlaptop> nope, I think we're good. We'll hammer out further details in the bug tracker
+08:58:33 <yuliyabozhko> ok then
+08:58:40 <yuliyabozhko> #topic Yuliya on reviewing patches from Totara
+08:58:45 <yuliyabozhko> I will be quick :)
+08:58:52 <yuliyabozhko> as some of you hopefully know, Totara team is currently doing lots of work in social features area
+08:59:03 <yuliyabozhko> so, I put this item on meeting agenda earlier this week when I felt that our progress has stalled a bit due to lack of feedback on the patches in review, but it seems that we did quite a bit of work on reviewing and merging patches today
+08:59:12 <yuliyabozhko> thanks a lot everyone who participated :D
+08:59:29 <yuliyabozhko> I guess all I want to ask is to prioritise when possible reviewing/feedback of the new features from Totara team (Nathan Lewis, Valerii Kuznetsov, Moises Burgos, and myself) while we are quite early in Mahara release cycle
+08:59:38 <yuliyabozhko> We still have a lot of work to do and it is quite hard to work with patches with so many dependencies
+08:59:46 <yuliyabozhko> that's it from me :) thanks
+09:00:48 <ghada> do you have a list of what's most important for you - while reviewing?
+09:01:12 <rkabalin> good to know more new stuff is coming
+09:01:27 <yuliyabozhko> ghada: no. it might be a good idea TO MAKE A LIST
+09:01:48 <ghada> :)
+09:02:30 <yuliyabozhko> I am not sure on how to communicate importance of some patches other than ask someone to review them directly
+09:02:36 <simoncoggins1> often if there are patches with dependencies it is the ones that things depend on that we need in
+09:02:39 <robertl_> it was good to see some of the bigger patches merged as it opens up the reviewing of smaller child patches which should go quicker
+09:03:13 <robertl_> eg they shouldn't need 30+ revisions
+09:03:37 <yuliyabozhko> yeah, definitely
+09:03:37 <anitsirk> yuliyabozhko: i think in terms of priority: whether it’s activity stream or artefact level sharing etc. then within that it’s to look at all due to the dependencies.
+09:04:07 <yuliyabozhko> anitsirk: yep, pretty much. that would be great
+09:04:08 <simoncoggins1> the three big ones at the moment are activity stream, artefact sharing and chat
+09:04:15 <yuliyabozhko> we also have chat in review already
+09:04:32 <yuliyabozhko> Valerii is currently splitting it into smaller patches for easier review
+09:04:37 <simoncoggins1> if I had to pick a priority it would probably be activity stream, then artefact level sharing
+09:04:50 <simoncoggins1> but they are both important because they touch on so many areas of mahara
+09:05:17 <simoncoggins1> some of the other features that are coming like questions and ideas are more independent
+09:05:43 <yuliyabozhko> activitystream is separated into a topic
+09:05:52 <yuliyabozhko> so, it's easier to find it in review
+09:05:54 <tobiasz> besides the likeability, or is that already merged?
+09:05:56 <simoncoggins1> we really appreciate all the effort and help so far!
+09:06:23 <yuliyabozhko> tobiasz: only initial activity stream patch has been merged
+09:06:27 <simoncoggins1> likes is in activitystream topic:
+09:06:28 <simoncoggins1> https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/3374/
+09:06:35 <yuliyabozhko> all child patches are still there
+09:06:50 <tobiasz> ok, thanks
+09:07:35 <rkabalin> Will try to dedicate some time to reviewing, though it is a bit difficult at the moment.
+09:07:40 <yuliyabozhko> cool. if you have any questions, don't hesitate contact any of us in Totara
+09:08:24 <yuliyabozhko> ok, next topic then :)
+09:08:42 <yuliyabozhko> #topic aarowlaptop on allowing anonymous-author portfolio pages
+09:08:51 <yuliyabozhko> #link  https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/548021
+09:09:22 <yuliyabozhko> to be honest, I haven't looked at this one
+09:09:53 <yuliyabozhko> looks like a pretty old bug
+09:10:09 <anitsirk> it’s a wishlist item. :-)
+09:10:10 <tobiasz> connected to the Ljubljana ideas, though
+09:10:17 <robertl_> ah yeah I merged that one before fully realising the problems with it
+09:10:27 <yuliyabozhko> aarowlaptop: would you like to talk about it?
+09:10:43 <robertl_> the danger of anonymous pages
+09:10:56 <aarowlaptop> well, I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas on what the use case for this is
+09:10:57 <tobiasz> my fault, should have marked it as in-discussion
+09:11:06 <aarowlaptop> I see that the Ljubljana folks want it as well
+09:11:12 <yuliyabozhko> oh, came across similar problem in bagdes
+09:12:06 <aarowlaptop> hm, although I guess specifically what the Ljubljana group says is that *public* pages should not show the author
+09:12:34 <yuliyabozhko> in this case you need a way of verifying the author which might not be easy
+09:12:37 <aarowlaptop> whereas what the current patch does, is allow you to hide the page name from everyone?
+09:12:40 <anitsirk> Currently, people can already choose what name to display. It does not have to be the fullname. everywhere else (blogs, social networks etc.) you always have your name displayed.
+09:12:41 <aarowlaptop> I mean the author name
+09:13:11 <tobiasz> the patch hides the author to anyone, who couldn't see the authors profile
+09:13:18 <yuliyabozhko> what the point of hiding user name?
+09:13:28 <ghada> what is the worry of having anonymous authoers
+09:13:57 <aarowlaptop> It's an accountability thing
+09:14:06 <robertl_> if I am anonymous I can make an official looking page saying give me your c/card info
+09:14:11 <anitsirk> yuliyabozhko: that’s what we are trying to find out
+09:14:15 <aarowlaptop> so that's one aspect, creating phishing pages
+09:14:16 <tobiasz> the "report objectionable material" link is still shown i public pages, isn't it?
+09:14:25 <yuliyabozhko> yes
+09:14:34 <anitsirk> but not everyone will report a page.
+09:14:50 <yuliyabozhko> wait, isn't it only displayed to logged in users?
+09:14:55 <aarowlaptop> right, and admins may not check that frequently
+09:15:05 <ghada> but i can also put some obscure name on that page as an auther.  I can be "Barack Obama"...
+09:15:08 <anitsirk> or is the problem more around the fact that you can currently see the person’s name and profile pic even when they don’t have access to the full profile?
+09:15:09 <aarowlaptop> hm, there's that too, only logged in users can report a page objectionable
+09:15:40 <aarowlaptop> tobiasz: Did you implement this patch because you need it at your institution?
+09:15:52 <anitsirk> ghada: yes, you can already have a display name if your institution / site allows for that. so you can be anonymous. however, that then goes for the entire site
+09:16:09 <anitsirk> while you can choose which name to display as author, around a site your display name is your primary name
+09:16:14 <tobiasz> no, I just looked at the proposals from the Ljubljana group and had the idea
+09:16:48 <aarowlaptop> Oh, okay
+09:16:56 <anitsirk> ok. so we need more input from gregor on what he actually means
+09:16:59 <tobiasz> so for me, it's ok to revert the patch. We should ask Gregor why he needs the feature, though
+09:17:04 <aarowlaptop> Yeah
+09:17:16 <aarowlaptop> Okay, I'll ask Gregor about it
+09:17:34 <aarowlaptop> I think it may be worth keeping, just as an optional feature
+09:17:53 <anitsirk> is it configurable on the site / institution level?
+09:17:55 <tobiasz> There's a fix for the institution link from robertl, though. Can we exclude that into a separate patch?
+09:17:59 <anitsirk> sorry, haven’t had the chance to look at it yet.
+09:18:09 <robertl_> would it be better to display the author as text rather than link for public users?
+09:18:19 <robertl_> instead of hiding it altogether
+09:18:33 <anitsirk> it would need to be a link when the profile is publicly viewable
+09:18:34 <aarowlaptop> Well, we'll have to see what the use-case is to know whether that's better or not
+09:18:36 <tobiasz> anitsirk: no, my attempt was that if you can't follow the link to the profile page, then the link is obsolete
+09:19:09 <aarowlaptop> I suspect that, if you want your users to create pages with no "author" line, you probably don't want their name printed on the page
+09:19:20 <ghada> so, if you're logged in and can view the user's info, the name appears?
+09:19:26 <tobiasz> yep
+09:19:50 <anitsirk> i still don’t like it because then it looks like the institution wrote the page
+09:19:54 <anitsirk> or the mahara install
+09:19:58 <yuliyabozhko> right, we definitely need more info on this one from Gregor
+09:20:12 <yuliyabozhko> aarowlaptop: will you contact him?
+09:20:16 <aarowlaptop> sure
+09:20:28 <anitsirk> we are dealing with user generated content here and if we don’t have any indiciation of author it falls back to the wider site which would not be good
+09:20:31 <yuliyabozhko> thanks
+09:20:39 <anitsirk> yuliyabozhko: can you please make an action ite
+09:20:41 <anitsirk> item
+09:20:54 <ghada> anitsirk: yes, i see your point.
+09:21:02 <yuliyabozhko> #action aarowlaptop contact Gregor to get more information/use cases on anonymous pages
+09:21:18 <yuliyabozhko> done
+09:21:46 <yuliyabozhko> anything else on this?
+09:22:02 <yuliyabozhko> I guess we can't discuss much until we get more info
+09:22:41 <yuliyabozhko> ok, then, moving on
+09:22:46 <yuliyabozhko> #topic Next meeting and chair
+09:22:59 <yuliyabozhko> what about Thursday, 10th of July 2014 at 8 AM UTC (9 AM UK, 10 AM Europe, 8 PM NZ)?
+09:23:21 <ghada> ok with me.
+09:23:32 <anitsirk> works for me
+09:23:34 <tobiasz> fine with me
+09:23:35 <aarowlaptop> okay
+09:23:42 <robertl_> where do feature freeze etc happen?
+09:23:50 <aarowlaptop> Last week of July I believe
+09:23:50 <robertl_> when do feature freeze etc happen?
+09:24:00 <anitsirk> last week of July
+09:24:09 <aarowlaptop> So 10th July will be the last meeting before the feature freeze
+09:24:16 <robertl_> cool then having a meeting then should be good
+09:24:16 <anitsirk> yes. sounds good.
+09:24:17 <yuliyabozhko> then technically yes
+09:24:24 <yuliyabozhko> cool
+09:24:26 <robertl_> fine for me
+09:24:35 <yuliyabozhko> #agreed 34th Mahara dev meeting on Thursday, 10th of July 2014 at 8 AM UTC (9 AM UK, 10 AM Europe, 8 PM NZ)
+09:24:45 <anitsirk> and 6 pm Sydney
+09:24:45 <yuliyabozhko> #link http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20140710T08
+09:25:10 <yuliyabozhko> who would like to chair?
+09:26:20 <yuliyabozhko> I can volunteer someone :)
+09:27:26 <yuliyabozhko> seems like a very scary question...
+09:27:42 <rkabalin> I can if noone wants
+09:27:48 <anitsirk> who has not yet chaireda meeting?
+09:28:31 <robertl_> I have not yet chaired one - I'll do it
+09:28:41 <yuliyabozhko> great. thanks!
+09:28:42 <anitsirk> thank you, robertl_
+09:28:48 <rkabalin> thanks robertl_
+09:28:55 <yuliyabozhko> #info robertl_ to chair the 34th Mahara dev meeting
+09:29:01 <yuliyabozhko> #topic Any other business
+09:29:06 <anitsirk> I have two
+09:29:08 <yuliyabozhko> anything else?
+09:29:21 <yuliyabozhko> cool, go on :)
+09:29:56 <anitsirk> #info please fill in the questionnaire for Moodle Mahara integration and pass it on to anybody you know who has an interest: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1vyECf8s8lyEX6YJuf9SGe7sUN5flaROcfBF7mPxY9fc/viewform
+09:30:10 <anitsirk> it is for the MNet “replacement”
+09:30:38 <anitsirk> and use cases of what works well right now as well as what functionality you are missing would be great to have so that the solution that we are going to come up with keeps all those things in mind
+09:30:47 <yuliyabozhko> is it aimed at developers or admins?
+09:30:54 <anitsirk> both
+09:30:57 <ghada> have you passed this onto the Sydney office?
+09:31:08 <anitsirk> ghada: not yet
+09:32:05 <anitsirk> the important thing is to get use cases and not i prefer oauth because… the technical side will be decided once we have all the use cases and know what the integration needs to cater to.
+09:32:40 <anitsirk> if you have a strong preference for a specific technology do say so as it might reveal any potential problems, but we don’t want the tech side to get into the way of the user side. dream a little…
+09:32:49 <anitsirk> number 2
+09:33:34 <anitsirk> The University of Canberra is funding major work for Mahara: archiving of pages and making the Mahara assignment submission plugin work over LTI. base specs are at https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development/Moodle_LTI_integration
+09:33:43 <anitsirk> #info The University of Canberra is funding major work for Mahara: archiving of pages and making the Mahara assignment submission plugin work over LTI. base specs are at https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development/Moodle_LTI_integration
+09:34:11 <yuliyabozhko> that's great news
+09:34:18 <anitsirk> that work will be awesome because pages / collections that were submitted (groups or in Moodle) will be archived on the server
+09:34:37 <anitsirk> and it makes the plugin less moodle specific.
+09:34:52 <anitsirk> so big thanks to U of Canberra and esp. Shane Nuessler
+09:35:20 <anitsirk> and like usual, as much as possible will be put into core Mahara.
+09:35:27 <anitsirk> that’s all from me
+09:35:30 <yuliyabozhko> sounds great
+09:35:31 <rkabalin> yep, big thanks from us as well
+09:35:33 <yuliyabozhko> thanks, anitsirk
+09:35:43 <yuliyabozhko> anyone else?
+09:36:05 <yuliyabozhko> I have nothing :)
+09:36:25 <ghada> that's it from me...
+09:37:04 <yuliyabozhko> ok then. thanks everyone for joining today :)
+09:37:11 <anitsirk> thanks for chairing, yuliyabozhko
+09:37:26 <ghada> thanks  yuliyabozhko. Great job.
+09:37:29 <tobiasz> thanks, yuliyabozhko
+09:37:36 <yuliyabozhko> :)
+09:37:39 <yuliyabozhko> #endmeeting
+ diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-06-05-08.15.log.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-06-05-08.15.log.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..f3b834d6f3800062249e56dc6ef20da3d004f658 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-06-05-08.15.log.txt @@ -0,0 +1,384 @@ +08:15:21 #startmeeting +08:15:21 Meeting started Thu Jun 5 08:15:21 2014 UTC. The chair is yuliyabozhko. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. +08:15:21 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. +08:15:38 thanks dobedobedoh +08:15:43 thank you dobedobedoh +08:15:47 ghada: It's running on my personal VM +08:15:51 shall we carry on? +08:16:17 someone should write meetbot instructions +08:16:20 intros again? +08:16:33 might be easier than trying to combine things later +08:16:38 yeah, we just started anyway +08:16:51 #info ghada is Ghada El-Zoghbi, developer at Catalyst IT, Sydney, AU +08:16:53 #info tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany +08:16:54 #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:17:01 #info yuliya is Yuliya Bozhko, developer at TotaraLMS, Wellington, NZ +08:17:06 May be we can intro, and then someone copy-paste previous discussion you had before meetbot woke up +08:17:10 yuliyabozhko: you’d need to paste the agreed action. i think it only shows up from you as chair +08:17:23 #info rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, UK +08:17:26 #info sonn_ is Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:17:29 #info robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:17:29 irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#info simoncoggins1 is Simon Coggins, TotaraLMS, Wellington, NZ +08:17:33 anitsirk: will do +08:17:39 oops +08:17:55 #info simoncoggins1 is Simon Coggins, TotaraLMS, Wellington, NZ +08:18:04 dobedobedoh: can you please introduce yourself for the meeting minutes too? +08:18:49 if that's everyone, we can carry on then :) +08:18:51 #info aarowlaptop is Aaron G. Wells of Catalyst in Wellington NZ +08:19:07 yep, carry on +08:19:09 #topic Items from last meeting +08:19:14 #info everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the Ljubljana group +08:19:35 #agreed everyone need to comment on the individual items from enhancement list in the forums / bugs and then talk about them if needed +08:19:44 I am just adding what we agreed on +08:19:54 #link https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 +08:19:55 yep. that’s fine +08:20:12 #info aarowlaptop look into gerrit update +08:20:30 did you have a chance to look at it, aarowlaptop? +08:20:46 No, I haven't looked into that yet +08:21:09 gerrit is currently on version 2.6.1 and can be updated to 2.8.5 which has quite useful features +08:21:29 Yep, I'm definitely in favor of upgrading, just haven't gotten round to it yet. +08:21:38 would you like me to added to the next meeting agenda? +08:22:17 or would you prefer someone else looks into that? +08:22:17 Sure +08:22:30 We should still upgrade, so you can put it on the next meeting agenda +08:22:36 ok +08:22:40 #action aarowlaptop look into gerrit update +08:23:05 dobedobedoh: is Andrew Nicols @ Moodle Pty Limited +08:23:12 #topic tobiasz on non-reusable textboxes: new block type or diversified interface for existing one +08:23:30 We repeatedly had users complain about text boxes in copied pages, when they didn't notice the hint about the shared notes artefact and accidently overwrote the content of the original page. You find the discussion in the forum here: https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6257 +08:23:39 I'll give a quick summary +08:23:57 I had found an old discussion touching that topic when the feature of reusable text boxes was announced (in 2011) and I think the idea back there was to add a switch to the text box between the reusable/artefact-related functionality and a plain version. Aaron, however, had the idea to split the functionality into two separate block types. +08:24:09 I think the solution with two artefacts is cleaner, but it should be clear to users, which one is which. Aaron suggested the non-artefact-related block type to offer a simplified interface (e.g. no file attachments). +08:24:24 My idea was to move the complete editing functionality for the notes to the content panel and on the portfolio level only select the note artefact - where Kristina objected that users want to create content on the portfolio view. +08:24:29 #info users complain about text boxes in copied pages where they don’t see the hint and accidentally overwrite the original text. +08:24:30 So I'd like to clarify, if we want two add a switch to the existing checkboxes or rather two separate block types - and if so, how to distinguish them so users don't get confused about which one to use. +08:24:47 did you mention that it was on enhancements suggestion from Gregor's list? +08:25:08 This was item 2 on Gregor's list +08:25:09 ah, sorry, forgot that. It's also on the list of the enhancements from the Ljubljana group +08:25:15 "Copying of Textboxes should create real copies" +08:25:22 it had already come u pbefore gregor’s list though +08:25:23 https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 +08:25:26 yep +08:25:38 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 +08:26:05 Yeah, my favored way of doing this is to create two separate block types -- one for one-off text, and another for reusable notes +08:26:22 #idea 1) make it distinguishable in one block that you can have re-usable notes and those that can’t be re-used +08:26:44 #idea 2) have two different blocktypes because then the non-reusable text snippets can have a simpler interface +08:27:17 i think that would be the best. the re-usable interface is already quite complex. adding yet another layer may be too much. +08:27:23 I also favor the second idea, I think it easier to explain that to the user +08:27:43 hmm, it should be made clear enough to users +08:28:10 while i favor that re-usable text boxes should stil be able to be created on a page itself, i think it should also be possible to create them under content. it’s the only artefact that cannot be created there but only edited +08:28:13 i think users will also want to 'convert' one to the other. +08:28:22 ghada: good point +08:28:37 maybe +08:28:44 yeah, might get complicated +08:28:56 Aaron suggested rename the actual textbox blocktype to "note" and call the new, non-copiable block type one text +08:28:57 does anyone want to write down some ideas on bug listing? +08:28:59 you might start out with a non-reusable one but then realize that it’s gotten so long / important that it would be good to keep. however, it might be easier to just copy and paste +08:29:00 i agree but there will be voices out there +08:29:36 ghada: it could be a future enhancement :-) +08:29:37 yes, copy/paste is always available. +08:29:41 exactly. +08:29:42 yeah, future enhancement ;) +08:30:21 i think fixing up the current functionality is more important. i also noticed that notes do not ever get deleted even when they don’t exist in pages anymore. +08:30:22 We have very small communities on mahara here, but I don't know any of our users, that uses the copyable feature on purpose. Are there users out htere that use them frequently? +08:30:28 how would existing text blocks be migrated? would they be notes or new textboxes? +08:30:34 tobiasz: i do +08:30:39 ok :) +08:30:58 i use it when i have similar text for templates for example or when creating a series of pages that are fairly similar +08:31:12 yes, one client (a school) does hits here in Sydney +08:31:15 sure. i could just copy and paste, but it’s quite handy that the title is available as well as all the formatting +08:31:35 and, we've got an outstanding bug for months now. +08:31:41 I wouldn't migrate any existing block types, though it doesn't help with huge list of notes that you can already choose from, from which most are not intended to be copied +08:31:41 I haven't used them much +08:31:53 but in general, it would be better to not be connected to the original from the start i think but choose that only if you want to stay connected to it. +08:32:17 Could be that when you delete a note, if it's used in any pages you have the option to "downgrade" those into standalone text blocks +08:32:20 ghada: i think that bug is different and related to their portal / firewall +08:32:25 that would be a relatively simple migration path +08:32:31 the copying functionality itself works as intended. +08:32:32 anitsirk: that would be one interface for both? +08:32:39 funny, these clients want it connected to the original text and are complaining that it's not linked. +08:33:00 tobiasz: that’s the tricky bit. +08:33:01 anitsirk: this is a different one. I fixed the firewall/portal issue. +08:33:14 ah ok, ghada. good to know that that works now :-) +08:33:27 :) +08:33:42 tobiasz: starting out with not being connected i think is trickier than the current behavior because you’d do it retroactivtlye +08:33:57 to best not open that can of worms. +08:33:57 good to hear the portal issue is fixed :) +08:34:14 robertl_: "fudged".... +08:34:24 :) +08:34:25 lol +08:34:29 But many users don't notice that the content is connected, especially new users +08:35:10 yes. we’ve pondered using a pop-up box but that can also be quite intrusive esp. once you’ve got it and still need to click them away all the time +08:35:11 tobiasz: i agree. and the ones who do use this functionality, get it confused. +08:35:43 can we actually have it "look" different? +08:35:57 ghada: in what wa? +08:35:57 that could be one of the options +08:35:58 way? +08:35:59 would it be worth having some indication on edit screen that the textbox is linked? like some header to the textbox in a bright colour letting them know +08:36:03 different colour background, more rounded corners, i don't know... +08:36:13 robertl_: it’s already there in red ;-) +08:36:20 From a new user perspective I would imagine it more the other way round: you write a text and then notice, that this is a snippet/note, you would like to keep for another page +08:36:27 not in the config form but the edit page +08:37:33 if reusable items and non-reusable items are in different categories, they would be seen as different +08:37:36 there's already a message at the top to inform the users that this if they make changes, it will change the original +08:37:55 robertl: I like that idea, I think if we'd stick with one blocktype, the difference should be more notorious than just a little switch or a small red text +08:38:12 having two blocktypes would make it clearer i think +08:38:24 noticable, not notoriuous +08:38:25 I agree with anitsirk +08:38:25 adding more to the edit screen might be overloading that one. it’s already very busy +08:38:54 because then users would make a conscious choice between just having plain text vs. creating something they can re-use. +08:38:56 yeah, that was my thought +08:39:03 it can be one block with two options +08:39:17 anitsirk: agreed. +08:39:24 and you probably only re-use in very specific cases. i re-use text boxes for similar content or for the same content, in particular instructions on templates +08:39:47 any other ideas? +08:39:50 there i really only want to update one copy of the textbox and have it updated in 10 other pages without having to go into every single one and update the textobx manually +08:40:42 i guess we’d need to figure out what to do with the current notes. what about having those that were re-used as re-usable blocktypes and the rest as simple text? +08:40:43 would having a confirm prompt when saving a textbox alerting user that it will change in other places - giving them options 'ok' 'no make copy' or 'cancel' be useful +08:40:52 From a portfolio perspective, I think the usual case for reusable elements would be, create a note on the content-area and select it in the portfolio view +08:41:57 tobiasz: there i’d still like to be able to create re-usable item directly in the portfolio. a number of people complain about the process of having to go into content first and then needing to put it onto a portfolio page instead of starting on the portfolio page. +08:42:16 tobiasz: I think we are trying to get away from this workflow as it is not very user friendly +08:42:32 robertl_: hadn’t thought of that. sounds like the best idea so far for the re-usable ones to me +08:42:36 ok, I agree with that +08:42:58 #idea have a confirm prompt when saving a textbox alerting user that it will change in other places - giving them options 'ok' 'no make copy' or 'cancel' +08:43:46 what about just having three buttons then instead of a popup which would be an additional click? +08:43:46 so, any action on this topic? +08:44:30 i guess it’s back to discussing a bit more on the forum / tracker to come up with the plan to untangle things. +08:44:45 Yeah, let's work it out on the bug tracker, now that we've had some discussion about it here +08:44:58 sounds good +08:45:01 ok +08:45:04 yes. +08:45:09 should this be a task for everyone interested? +08:45:12 i think we agree that there should be two different blocktypes and that the re-usable one needs some more usability work to make it clear that text will be replaced elsewhere if not copied. +08:45:42 that sums it up nicely I recon +08:45:59 ok +08:46:07 #idea there should be two different text blocktypes and that the re-usable one needs some more usability work to make it clear that text will be replaced elsewhere if not copied. +08:46:44 #action everyone have a look at discussion forum and bug listing https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 if anything can be added to the discussion +08:47:14 can I start working on the new block type or is that also subject to discuss? +08:47:27 it’s https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1152441 +08:47:30 #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1152441 +08:47:43 tobiasz: which blocktype? the simple text one? +08:47:54 yep, the simple one +08:48:15 if we agreed, that we need two blocktypes, why nor +08:48:21 tobiasz: Sure, I'd say go ahead +08:48:35 my opinion for that in terms of functionality: Title, Description, Tags. And then a way of migrating existing single “notes” to that. +08:48:37 ok, great +08:48:43 do I need to add this to actions? +08:48:45 I don’t think we need comments on the simple text +08:48:56 yuliyabozhko: i don’t think so. +08:49:06 ok, thanks +08:49:10 agreed, no comments +08:49:12 I don't think it really needs tags for that matter +08:49:14 unless you want to make tobiasz to report back next time ;-) +08:49:22 it would be good to see something in action as that will help clarify what we want +08:49:24 very tempting :D +08:49:34 Yeah, good idea +08:49:42 fine with me ^^ +08:49:46 tags: mhh. probably not since it’s just a line of text or so +08:50:00 also agreed, no need for tags +08:50:16 so, it won't have any attached files, etc? +08:50:33 that's the point of being "simple" I guess :) +08:50:44 ok, sounds good to me. +08:51:03 my idea of simple was about not being connected to an artefact, but I'm fine without the files +08:51:27 :) ah, right +08:51:39 any opinions? +08:51:59 although from an implementation perspective... in order to hook it into elasticsearch it may well need to be an artefact on the backend... just not an artefact that is viewable and editable on its own +08:52:04 tobiasz: so pretty much go back to what the textbox used to be back in the day. +08:52:11 sort of like how commenst are technically artefacts +08:52:26 aarow: are they? +08:52:31 yeah :) +08:52:37 yep, they are +08:53:30 that's for when you use the elasticsearch to search the pages? +08:53:34 Hm, actually I'll take a look at it +08:54:11 No, comments were written before the Elasticsearch stuff. I'm not sure why they're artefacts exactly, except that it's kind of a convenient way to store them +08:54:25 I haven't worked with elastic search so far, but other block types also have titles and such. I'll have a look at that as well +08:54:27 #idea in order to hook it into elasticsearch it may well need to be an artefact on the backend... just not an artefact that is viewable and editable on its own +08:54:41 Okay, I'll check into that tomorrow +08:54:52 ok, great +08:54:57 will it also appear in the notes section? +08:55:01 I think you're right, it would be easier and simpler to just store the text in the block +08:55:11 artefacts are mainly meant for reuse, and this will not be reusable +08:55:13 no, it won't appear in the notes section +08:56:07 anything else on this? +08:56:12 I'm done +08:56:13 but would you want to share them in some sort of stream maybe, yuliyabozhko? +08:56:13 not from me +08:56:14 ok. i think we're ok on this +08:56:53 i think we keep it simple. +08:57:15 what's next on the agenda, yuliya? +08:57:15 and the watchlist event should be triggered anyways +08:57:20 but if it’s simple to write, people will use it for longer things that they may want to share and not re-use. +08:57:24 anything we would like to check about this topic next meeting? +08:57:32 to add to actions +08:57:41 if not, moving on :) +08:58:25 nope, I think we're good. We'll hammer out further details in the bug tracker +08:58:33 ok then +08:58:40 #topic Yuliya on reviewing patches from Totara +08:58:45 I will be quick :) +08:58:52 as some of you hopefully know, Totara team is currently doing lots of work in social features area +08:59:03 so, I put this item on meeting agenda earlier this week when I felt that our progress has stalled a bit due to lack of feedback on the patches in review, but it seems that we did quite a bit of work on reviewing and merging patches today +08:59:12 thanks a lot everyone who participated :D +08:59:29 I guess all I want to ask is to prioritise when possible reviewing/feedback of the new features from Totara team (Nathan Lewis, Valerii Kuznetsov, Moises Burgos, and myself) while we are quite early in Mahara release cycle +08:59:38 We still have a lot of work to do and it is quite hard to work with patches with so many dependencies +08:59:46 that's it from me :) thanks +09:00:48 do you have a list of what's most important for you - while reviewing? +09:01:12 good to know more new stuff is coming +09:01:27 ghada: no. it might be a good idea TO MAKE A LIST +09:01:48 :) +09:02:30 I am not sure on how to communicate importance of some patches other than ask someone to review them directly +09:02:36 often if there are patches with dependencies it is the ones that things depend on that we need in +09:02:39 it was good to see some of the bigger patches merged as it opens up the reviewing of smaller child patches which should go quicker +09:03:13 eg they shouldn't need 30+ revisions +09:03:37 yeah, definitely +09:03:37 yuliyabozhko: i think in terms of priority: whether it’s activity stream or artefact level sharing etc. then within that it’s to look at all due to the dependencies. +09:04:07 anitsirk: yep, pretty much. that would be great +09:04:08 the three big ones at the moment are activity stream, artefact sharing and chat +09:04:15 we also have chat in review already +09:04:32 Valerii is currently splitting it into smaller patches for easier review +09:04:37 if I had to pick a priority it would probably be activity stream, then artefact level sharing +09:04:50 but they are both important because they touch on so many areas of mahara +09:05:17 some of the other features that are coming like questions and ideas are more independent +09:05:43 activitystream is separated into a topic +09:05:52 so, it's easier to find it in review +09:05:54 besides the likeability, or is that already merged? +09:05:56 we really appreciate all the effort and help so far! +09:06:23 tobiasz: only initial activity stream patch has been merged +09:06:27 likes is in activitystream topic: +09:06:28 https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/3374/ +09:06:35 all child patches are still there +09:06:50 ok, thanks +09:07:35 Will try to dedicate some time to reviewing, though it is a bit difficult at the moment. +09:07:40 cool. if you have any questions, don't hesitate contact any of us in Totara +09:08:24 ok, next topic then :) +09:08:42 #topic aarowlaptop on allowing anonymous-author portfolio pages +09:08:51 #link  https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/548021 +09:09:22 to be honest, I haven't looked at this one +09:09:53 looks like a pretty old bug +09:10:09 it’s a wishlist item. :-) +09:10:10 connected to the Ljubljana ideas, though +09:10:17 ah yeah I merged that one before fully realising the problems with it +09:10:27 aarowlaptop: would you like to talk about it? +09:10:43 the danger of anonymous pages +09:10:56 well, I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas on what the use case for this is +09:10:57 my fault, should have marked it as in-discussion +09:11:06 I see that the Ljubljana folks want it as well +09:11:12 oh, came across similar problem in bagdes +09:12:06 hm, although I guess specifically what the Ljubljana group says is that *public* pages should not show the author +09:12:34 in this case you need a way of verifying the author which might not be easy +09:12:37 whereas what the current patch does, is allow you to hide the page name from everyone? +09:12:40 Currently, people can already choose what name to display. It does not have to be the fullname. everywhere else (blogs, social networks etc.) you always have your name displayed. +09:12:41 I mean the author name +09:13:11 the patch hides the author to anyone, who couldn't see the authors profile +09:13:18 what the point of hiding user name? +09:13:28 what is the worry of having anonymous authoers +09:13:57 It's an accountability thing +09:14:06 if I am anonymous I can make an official looking page saying give me your c/card info +09:14:11 yuliyabozhko: that’s what we are trying to find out +09:14:15 so that's one aspect, creating phishing pages +09:14:16 the "report objectionable material" link is still shown i public pages, isn't it? +09:14:25 yes +09:14:34 but not everyone will report a page. +09:14:50 wait, isn't it only displayed to logged in users? +09:14:55 right, and admins may not check that frequently +09:15:05 but i can also put some obscure name on that page as an auther. I can be "Barack Obama"... +09:15:08 or is the problem more around the fact that you can currently see the person’s name and profile pic even when they don’t have access to the full profile? +09:15:09 hm, there's that too, only logged in users can report a page objectionable +09:15:40 tobiasz: Did you implement this patch because you need it at your institution? +09:15:52 ghada: yes, you can already have a display name if your institution / site allows for that. so you can be anonymous. however, that then goes for the entire site +09:16:09 while you can choose which name to display as author, around a site your display name is your primary name +09:16:14 no, I just looked at the proposals from the Ljubljana group and had the idea +09:16:48 Oh, okay +09:16:56 ok. so we need more input from gregor on what he actually means +09:16:59 so for me, it's ok to revert the patch. We should ask Gregor why he needs the feature, though +09:17:04 Yeah +09:17:16 Okay, I'll ask Gregor about it +09:17:34 I think it may be worth keeping, just as an optional feature +09:17:53 is it configurable on the site / institution level? +09:17:55 There's a fix for the institution link from robertl, though. Can we exclude that into a separate patch? +09:17:59 sorry, haven’t had the chance to look at it yet. +09:18:09 would it be better to display the author as text rather than link for public users? +09:18:19 instead of hiding it altogether +09:18:33 it would need to be a link when the profile is publicly viewable +09:18:34 Well, we'll have to see what the use-case is to know whether that's better or not +09:18:36 anitsirk: no, my attempt was that if you can't follow the link to the profile page, then the link is obsolete +09:19:09 I suspect that, if you want your users to create pages with no "author" line, you probably don't want their name printed on the page +09:19:20 so, if you're logged in and can view the user's info, the name appears? +09:19:26 yep +09:19:50 i still don’t like it because then it looks like the institution wrote the page +09:19:54 or the mahara install +09:19:58 right, we definitely need more info on this one from Gregor +09:20:12 aarowlaptop: will you contact him? +09:20:16 sure +09:20:28 we are dealing with user generated content here and if we don’t have any indiciation of author it falls back to the wider site which would not be good +09:20:31 thanks +09:20:39 yuliyabozhko: can you please make an action ite +09:20:41 item +09:20:54 anitsirk: yes, i see your point. +09:21:02 #action aarowlaptop contact Gregor to get more information/use cases on anonymous pages +09:21:18 done +09:21:46 anything else on this? +09:22:02 I guess we can't discuss much until we get more info +09:22:41 ok, then, moving on +09:22:46 #topic Next meeting and chair +09:22:59 what about Thursday, 10th of July 2014 at 8 AM UTC (9 AM UK, 10 AM Europe, 8 PM NZ)? +09:23:21 ok with me. +09:23:32 works for me +09:23:34 fine with me +09:23:35 okay +09:23:42 where do feature freeze etc happen? +09:23:50 Last week of July I believe +09:23:50 when do feature freeze etc happen? +09:24:00 last week of July +09:24:09 So 10th July will be the last meeting before the feature freeze +09:24:16 cool then having a meeting then should be good +09:24:16 yes. sounds good. +09:24:17 then technically yes +09:24:24 cool +09:24:26 fine for me +09:24:35 #agreed 34th Mahara dev meeting on Thursday, 10th of July 2014 at 8 AM UTC (9 AM UK, 10 AM Europe, 8 PM NZ) +09:24:45 and 6 pm Sydney +09:24:45 #link http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20140710T08 +09:25:10 who would like to chair? +09:26:20 I can volunteer someone :) +09:27:26 seems like a very scary question... +09:27:42 I can if noone wants +09:27:48 who has not yet chaireda meeting? +09:28:31 I have not yet chaired one - I'll do it +09:28:41 great. thanks! +09:28:42 thank you, robertl_ +09:28:48 thanks robertl_ +09:28:55 #info robertl_ to chair the 34th Mahara dev meeting +09:29:01 #topic Any other business +09:29:06 I have two +09:29:08 anything else? +09:29:21 cool, go on :) +09:29:56 #info please fill in the questionnaire for Moodle Mahara integration and pass it on to anybody you know who has an interest: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1vyECf8s8lyEX6YJuf9SGe7sUN5flaROcfBF7mPxY9fc/viewform +09:30:10 it is for the MNet “replacement” +09:30:38 and use cases of what works well right now as well as what functionality you are missing would be great to have so that the solution that we are going to come up with keeps all those things in mind +09:30:47 is it aimed at developers or admins? +09:30:54 both +09:30:57 have you passed this onto the Sydney office? +09:31:08 ghada: not yet +09:32:05 the important thing is to get use cases and not i prefer oauth because… the technical side will be decided once we have all the use cases and know what the integration needs to cater to. +09:32:40 if you have a strong preference for a specific technology do say so as it might reveal any potential problems, but we don’t want the tech side to get into the way of the user side. dream a little… +09:32:49 number 2 +09:33:34 The University of Canberra is funding major work for Mahara: archiving of pages and making the Mahara assignment submission plugin work over LTI. base specs are at https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development/Moodle_LTI_integration +09:33:43 #info The University of Canberra is funding major work for Mahara: archiving of pages and making the Mahara assignment submission plugin work over LTI. base specs are at https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development/Moodle_LTI_integration +09:34:11 that's great news +09:34:18 that work will be awesome because pages / collections that were submitted (groups or in Moodle) will be archived on the server +09:34:37 and it makes the plugin less moodle specific. +09:34:52 so big thanks to U of Canberra and esp. Shane Nuessler +09:35:20 and like usual, as much as possible will be put into core Mahara. +09:35:27 that’s all from me +09:35:30 sounds great +09:35:31 yep, big thanks from us as well +09:35:33 thanks, anitsirk +09:35:43 anyone else? +09:36:05 I have nothing :) +09:36:25 that's it from me... +09:37:04 ok then. thanks everyone for joining today :) +09:37:11 thanks for chairing, yuliyabozhko +09:37:26 thanks yuliyabozhko. Great job. +09:37:29 thanks, yuliyabozhko +09:37:36 :) +09:37:39 #endmeeting \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-06-05-08.15.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-06-05-08.15.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..47709a4b0878f0bd742e106c84e9edca31121e45 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-06-05-08.15.txt @@ -0,0 +1,156 @@ +=================== +#mahara-dev Meeting +=================== + + +Meeting started by yuliyabozhko at 08:15:21 UTC. The full logs are +available at +http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-06-05-08.15.log.html +. + + + +Meeting summary +--------------- +* ghada is Ghada El-Zoghbi, developer at Catalyst IT, Sydney, AU + (ghada, 08:16:51) +* tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany + (tobiasz, 08:16:53) +* anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ (anitsirk, + 08:16:54) +* yuliya is Yuliya Bozhko, developer at TotaraLMS, Wellington, NZ + (yuliyabozhko, 08:17:01) +* rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, UK (rkabalin, + 08:17:23) +* sonn_ is Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ (sonn_, 08:17:26) +* robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ (robertl_, + 08:17:29) +* LINK: irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/#info simoncoggins1 is Simon + Coggins, TotaraLMS, Wellington, NZ (simoncoggins1, 08:17:29) +* simoncoggins1 is Simon Coggins, TotaraLMS, Wellington, NZ + (simoncoggins1, 08:17:55) +* aarowlaptop is Aaron G. Wells of Catalyst in Wellington NZ (anitsirk, + 08:18:51) +* Items from last meeting (yuliyabozhko, 08:19:09) + * everyone to look at list of enhancement suggestions made by the + Ljubljana group (yuliyabozhko, 08:19:14) + * AGREED: everyone need to comment on the individual items from + enhancement list in the forums / bugs and then talk about them if + needed (yuliyabozhko, 08:19:35) + * LINK: https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 + (yuliyabozhko, 08:19:54) + * aarowlaptop look into gerrit update (yuliyabozhko, 08:20:12) + * ACTION: aarowlaptop look into gerrit update (yuliyabozhko, + 08:22:40) + +*  tobiasz on non-reusable textboxes: new block type or diversified + interface for existing one (yuliyabozhko, 08:23:12) + * users complain about text boxes in copied pages where they don’t see + the hint and accidentally overwrite the original text. (anitsirk, + 08:24:29) + * LINK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 (aarowlaptop, + 08:25:23) + * LINK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 + (yuliyabozhko, 08:25:38) + * IDEA: 1) make it distinguishable in one block that you can have + re-usable notes and those that can’t be re-used (anitsirk, + 08:26:22) + * IDEA: 2) have two different blocktypes because then the non-reusable + text snippets can have a simpler interface (anitsirk, 08:26:44) + * IDEA: have a confirm prompt when saving a textbox alerting user that + it will change in other places - giving them options 'ok' 'no make + copy' or 'cancel' (yuliyabozhko, 08:42:58) + * IDEA: there should be two different text blocktypes and that the + re-usable one needs some more usability work to make it clear that + text will be replaced elsewhere if not copied. (anitsirk, 08:46:07) + * ACTION: everyone have a look at discussion forum and bug listing + https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 if anything can be + added to the discussion (yuliyabozhko, 08:46:44) + * LINK: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1152441 (anitsirk, + 08:47:30) + * IDEA: in order to hook it into elasticsearch it may well need to be + an artefact on the backend... just not an artefact that is viewable + and editable on its own (anitsirk, 08:54:27) + +*  Yuliya on reviewing patches from Totara (yuliyabozhko, 08:58:40) + * LINK: https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/3374/ (simoncoggins1, + 09:06:28) + +*  aarowlaptop on allowing anonymous-author portfolio pages + (yuliyabozhko, 09:08:42) + * LINK:   https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/548021 + (yuliyabozhko, 09:08:51) + * ACTION: aarowlaptop contact Gregor to get more information/use cases + on anonymous pages (yuliyabozhko, 09:21:02) + +* Next meeting and chair (yuliyabozhko, 09:22:46) + * AGREED: 34th Mahara dev meeting on Thursday, 10th of July 2014 at 8 + AM UTC (9 AM UK, 10 AM Europe, 8 PM NZ) (yuliyabozhko, 09:24:35) + * LINK: + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20140710T08 + (yuliyabozhko, 09:24:45) + * robertl_ to chair the 34th Mahara dev meeting (yuliyabozhko, + 09:28:55) + +* Any other business (yuliyabozhko, 09:29:01) + * please fill in the questionnaire for Moodle Mahara integration and + pass it on to anybody you know who has an interest: + https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1vyECf8s8lyEX6YJuf9SGe7sUN5flaROcfBF7mPxY9fc/viewform + (anitsirk, 09:29:56) + * The University of Canberra is funding major work for Mahara: + archiving of pages and making the Mahara assignment submission + plugin work over LTI. base specs are at + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development/Moodle_LTI_integration + (anitsirk, 09:33:43) + +Meeting ended at 09:37:39 UTC. + + + + +Action Items +------------ +* aarowlaptop look into gerrit update +* everyone have a look at discussion forum and bug listing + https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 if anything can be + added to the discussion +* aarowlaptop contact Gregor to get more information/use cases on + anonymous pages + + + + +Action Items, by person +----------------------- +* aarowlaptop + * aarowlaptop look into gerrit update + * aarowlaptop contact Gregor to get more information/use cases on + anonymous pages +* **UNASSIGNED** + * everyone have a look at discussion forum and bug listing + https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 if anything can be + added to the discussion + + + + +People Present (lines said) +--------------------------- +* yuliyabozhko (113) +* anitsirk (95) +* aarowlaptop (49) +* tobiasz (48) +* ghada (34) +* robertl_ (22) +* simoncoggins1 (11) +* rkabalin (7) +* maharameet (2) +* dobedobedoh (2) +* sonn_ (1) + + + + +Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 + +.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-07-10-08.06.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-07-10-08.06.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..76b46cb2eb46138550bbfb72b13d852eb3182752 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-07-10-08.06.html @@ -0,0 +1,337 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev Meeting + + + + +

#mahara-dev Meeting

+ +Meeting started by anitsirk at 08:06:44 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Meeting summary

+
    +
  1. +
      +
    1. ghada-laptop is Ghada El-Zoghbi from + Catalyst-IT Sydney. (ghada, + 08:07:22)
    2. +
    3. anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, + Wellington, NZ (anitsirk, + 08:07:24)
    4. +
    5. tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, + Karlsruhe, Germany (tobiasz, + 08:07:25)
    6. +
    7. yuliya is Yuliya Bozhko, developer at + TotaraLMS, Wellington NZ (yuliyabozhko, + 08:07:45)
    8. +
    9. robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, + Wellington, NZ (robertl_, + 08:07:48)
    10. +
    11. Tony Butler, Moodle/Mahara developer at + Lancaster University UK (tonyjbutler, + 08:07:51)
    12. +
    13. Nigel Cunningham, developer at Catalyst, + Melbourne AU (nigelcunningham, + 08:09:19)
    14. +
    +
  2. +
  3. : Items from last meeting (anitsirk, 08:10:05) +
      +
    1. everyone: to comment on the individual items + from enhancement list made by the Ljubljana group in the forums / + bugs and then talk about them if needed : + https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 (anitsirk, + 08:10:12)
    2. +
    3. a number of items are started and have patches. + others need clarification. (anitsirk, + 08:15:17)
    4. +
    5. aarowlaptop is Aaron Wells from Catalyst IT in + Wellington NZ (aarowlaptop, + 08:24:00)
    6. +
    7. IDEA: there are + potentially two migration paths: reusable notes -> simple + non-reusable textboxes and textboxes -> notes. the former would + be good to have to get rid of the long list of notes that haven't + yet been reused, i.e. copied. those should also not contain any + attachments. (anitsirk, + 08:25:38)
    8. +
    9. ACTION: tobiasz tries + to implement an automatic conversion of all reusable text-boxes that + aren't copied so far to plain ones. (anitsirk, + 08:26:16)
    10. +
    11. aarowlaptop to look into gerrit update + (anitsirk, + 08:29:20)
    12. +
    13. ACTION: anitsirk to + check if another catalyst dev can upgrade the mahara gerrit since we + are upgrading our internal one as well. (anitsirk, + 08:31:37)
    14. +
    15. everyone: to have a look at discussion forum + and bug listing https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 if + anything can be added to the discussion (anitsirk, + 08:31:54)
    16. +
    +
  4. +
  5. Yuliya on documenting undocumented code (anitsirk, 08:32:35) +
      +
    1. rkabalin Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, + UK (rkabalin, + 08:33:35)
    2. +
    3. IDEA: if someone is + fixing things in undocumented method, they should add some PHP + Docs (anitsirk, + 08:34:21)
    4. +
    5. review process could be sped up by having some + docs available in the code as not everyone will be familiar with + everything. (anitsirk, + 08:35:44)
    6. +
    7. AGREED: : when fixing + code in an undocumented method, some PHP docs should be added to aid + understanding. (anitsirk, + 08:36:15)
    8. +
    +
  6. +
  7. Tobias on Multirecipient messenger (anitsirk, 08:36:49) +
      +
    1. The new plugin for the messenger/user + notification system is basically finished. There were just a few + questions opening up while doing the reviews/fixing their + results (anitsirk, + 08:37:15)
    2. +
    3. IDEA: The inbox + blocktype only shows the internal notifications. Is that a huge + problem for the patch in general? (anitsirk, + 08:38:11)
    4. +
    5. IDEA: all notifications + could be changed to work with the new plugin and than I guess it + would make sense to move the inbox in general to the 'module' plugin + type (anitsirk, + 08:50:46)
    6. +
    7. feature freeze is in the week of july 28, + 2014 (anitsirk, + 08:52:20)
    8. +
    9. tobiasz will attempt to get the inbox work done + before the feature freeze (anitsirk, + 08:59:40)
    10. +
    11. https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Accessibility_Checklist + (yuliyabozhko, + 09:10:42)
    12. +
    13. new features should pass accessibility testing + as accessibility is important in many countries and often required + these days. (anitsirk, + 09:13:00)
    14. +
    15. ACTION: robertl_ to + write up notes of how to deal with patches that one person started + and another continued and then hands back (anitsirk, + 09:19:37)
    16. +
    17. https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6355 + for reference (anitsirk, + 09:20:41)
    18. +
    19. When a user is deleted, the plugin marks all + his messages as deleted by him and complete removes those messages + that have been deleted by all other participants. In that + discussion, the question arose if user messages should be cleaned up + with a cron job, as the help-text tells. (anitsirk, + 09:21:12)
    20. +
    21. We are not that happy with the automatic + deletion of user messages, as there is no way to archive/conserve + them. The forum posts and view access notifications, on the other + hand, only point to information, that can still be found some other + place, after the notification has been deleted. (anitsirk, + 09:21:25)
    22. +
    23. IDEA: leave the user + messages and delete all the other notifications on a regular basis, + that just hold redundant information (anitsirk, + 09:29:38)
    24. +
    25. ACTION: anitsirk to + adjust the help text to show the correct number of days that certain + messages are deleted. See + https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1334576 (anitsirk, + 09:37:49)
    26. +
    +
  8. +
  9. Tobias on question plugin (anitsirk, 09:38:13) +
      +
    1. https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/3406/ + (yuliyabozhko, + 09:42:06)
    2. +
    3. tobiasz mplemented the question feature that + was proposed by Totara and we agreed on providing that to Mahara. + It's basically ready for testing, there are a few points still open + (more sophisticated search for questions, block type, + attachments/urls and maybe logging of editing, after the question + was opened) but the basic functionality is complete. (anitsirk, + 09:42:32)
    4. +
    +
  10. +
  11. Next meeting and chair (anitsirk, 09:45:46) +
      +
    1. the 35th Developer Meeting will take place on + 14 August at 8:00 UTC: + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=35th+Mahara+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140814T00 + (anitsirk, + 09:56:59)
    2. +
    3. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=35th+Mahara+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140814T00 + (anitsirk, + 09:57:02)
    4. +
    5. robertl_ will be the chair. (anitsirk, + 09:57:46)
    6. +
    +
  12. +
  13. Any other business (anitsirk, 09:57:55) +
  14. +
+

+ + + + +Meeting ended at 09:59:43 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Action items

+
    +
  1. tobiasz tries to implement an automatic conversion of all reusable text-boxes that aren't copied so far to plain ones.
  2. +
  3. anitsirk to check if another catalyst dev can upgrade the mahara gerrit since we are upgrading our internal one as well.
  4. +
  5. robertl_ to write up notes of how to deal with patches that one person started and another continued and then hands back
  6. +
  7. anitsirk to adjust the help text to show the correct number of days that certain messages are deleted. See https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1334576
  8. +
+

+ + + +

Action items, by person

+
    +
  1. anitsirk
      +
    1. anitsirk to check if another catalyst dev can upgrade the mahara gerrit since we are upgrading our internal one as well.
    2. +
    3. anitsirk to adjust the help text to show the correct number of days that certain messages are deleted. See https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1334576
    4. +
  2. +
  3. robertl_
      +
    1. robertl_ to write up notes of how to deal with patches that one person started and another continued and then hands back
    2. +
  4. +
  5. tobiasz
      +
    1. tobiasz tries to implement an automatic conversion of all reusable text-boxes that aren't copied so far to plain ones.
    2. +
  6. +
+

+ + + +

People present (lines said)

+
    +
  1. anitsirk (153)
  2. +
  3. tobiasz (93)
  4. +
  5. ghada (76)
  6. +
  7. yuliyabozhko (67)
  8. +
  9. robertl_ (22)
  10. +
  11. aarowlaptop (9)
  12. +
  13. nigelcunningham (8)
  14. +
  15. rkabalin (4)
  16. +
  17. maharameet (3)
  18. +
  19. tonyjbutler (2)
  20. +
+

+ + + +Generated by MeetBot 0.1.4. + diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-07-10-08.06.log.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-07-10-08.06.log.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..42d2bf93a84f41385ddc9eea2131d29c0e5c19bf --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-07-10-08.06.log.html @@ -0,0 +1,464 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev log + + + + +
08:06:44 <anitsirk> #startmeeting
+08:06:44 <maharameet> Meeting started Thu Jul 10 08:06:44 2014 UTC.  The chair is anitsirk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
+08:06:44 <maharameet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
+08:06:59 <anitsirk> Hello and welcome to the 34th Mahara Developer Meeting.
+08:07:14 <anitsirk> Please let us know who you are with fronting your intro using #info
+08:07:22 <ghada> #info ghada-laptop is Ghada El-Zoghbi from Catalyst-IT Sydney.
+08:07:24 <anitsirk> #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:07:25 <tobiasz> #info tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany
+08:07:45 <yuliyabozhko> #info yuliya is Yuliya Bozhko, developer at TotaraLMS, Wellington NZ
+08:07:48 <robertl_> #info robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:07:51 <tonyjbutler> #info Tony Butler, Moodle/Mahara developer at Lancaster University UK
+08:08:02 <ghada> hi nigelcunningham
+08:08:07 <anitsirk> Just a note: If you have something long to say, please put .. on a line by itself once you are done to indicate the end of a long statement.
+08:08:10 <nigelcunningham> Hi.
+08:08:43 <anitsirk> And please feel free to use meetbot commands yourself to put something into the minutes, e.g. by using #info or #idea where appropriate / wanted.
+08:08:49 <ghada> we've started the meeting.
+08:09:19 <nigelcunningham> #info Nigel Cunningham, developer at Catalyst, Melbourne AU
+08:09:34 <anitsirk> great. thank you. that should be almost all. let's get rolling.
+08:09:45 <anitsirk> #topic everyone: to comment on the individual items from enhancement list made  by the Ljubljana group in the forums / bugs and then talk about them if  needed : https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283
+08:09:57 <anitsirk> #undo
+08:09:57 <maharameet> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x1320d90>
+08:10:00 <anitsirk> sorry.
+08:10:05 <anitsirk> #topic: Items from last meeting
+08:10:12 <anitsirk> #info everyone: to comment on the individual items from enhancement list made  by the Ljubljana group in the forums / bugs and then talk about them if  needed : https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283
+08:10:21 <anitsirk> did anyone have time to explore / comment?
+08:10:38 <ghada> i explored but didn't really comment.
+08:10:48 <anitsirk> did anything strike you, ghada?
+08:11:12 <anitsirk> e.g. that should be discussed, that needs clarification?
+08:11:12 <ghada> A lot of them have started development.
+08:11:23 <ghada> a few have been rejected - I think two?
+08:11:36 <yuliyabozhko> some have been fixed already as well
+08:11:44 <ghada> yes.
+08:11:44 <nigelcunningham> I was working on 548021 today - probably about half done now.
+08:11:59 <anitsirk> i'm afraid I'm not on top of one that we've been discussing: the anonymous page
+08:12:03 <ghada> i picked up one as well.
+08:12:31 <ghada> He came back and said that he needs clarification from the group
+08:12:44 <ghada> probably enough just to remove the 'by'
+08:12:49 <anitsirk> ah that's the one, nigelcunningham
+08:13:12 <robertl_> I commented on 1296392
+08:13:41 <yuliyabozhko> also tobiasz started working on simple text box, right?
+08:13:41 <robertl_> but would need more clarification on how things would work before starting code on it
+08:13:58 <ghada> yes, i saw a review for the simple text box.
+08:14:05 <tobiasz> yep, it's basically, copy, paste, rename and delete features that it doesn't need
+08:14:07 <yuliyabozhko> not sure if it's related to a textbox copying issue...
+08:14:31 <ghada> we're going to split them into two separate "text boxes"
+08:14:41 <ghada> one is 'notes' and the other is 'text box'.
+08:14:47 <yuliyabozhko> I think so, I still don't quite understand if we reached any decision last time :)
+08:14:48 <tobiasz> I'm trying to figure out how to migrate single notes into textboxes, but unless we put that into the plugin configuration, I guess, the patch is ready for testing
+08:15:17 <anitsirk> #info a number of items are started and have patches. others need clarification.
+08:15:50 <anitsirk> tobiasz: how do you deal with textboxes now? do they migrate?
+08:16:09 <robertl_> tobiasz if the plugin needs installing on upgrade then having the db changes in the plugin would be best
+08:16:11 <yuliyabozhko> don't think so, at least not yet
+08:16:19 <tobiasz> they don't, so far. I just created the plain text box block type that is not related to an artefact
+08:17:12 <anitsirk> i think a migration of those text boxes that have not yet been used in other pages would be useful for the points discussed last time. what do you think?
+08:17:35 <tobiasz> I don't feel comfortable with migrating any note-textboxes automatically, so I think, there won't be any installing. But I'll have a look again at that
+08:17:37 <yuliyabozhko> sounds reasonable
+08:18:10 <ghada> are the users going to be able to convert a textbox to a note?
+08:18:13 <tobiasz> with automatically I mean without any user consent, like, when installing the plugin
+08:19:00 <anitsirk> ghada: i don't think that is currently planned.
+08:19:12 <ghada> ok.
+08:19:31 <yuliyabozhko> yeah, it might be not that simple and will just confuse users
+08:19:44 <ghada> yes, you're right.
+08:19:50 <robertl_> you could have the block have an admin config option that says 'change textboxes to notes'
+08:19:56 <tobiasz> I think, a migration in the other direction would be more hlelpful, as it would also clean up the endless list of notes to insert
+08:20:08 <anitsirk> agree, tobiasz
+08:20:16 <ghada> yes, i agree also.
+08:20:37 <anitsirk> esp since we don't have bulk delete ;-)
+08:20:37 <yuliyabozhko> yep, that would be good
+08:21:06 <tobiasz> robertl_: and that would just migrate all textboxes to notes? Are we talking about converting the new, plain text box to the reusable one?
+08:21:06 <anitsirk> hi aarowlaptop. can you please briefly introduce yourself for the minutes?
+08:22:18 <robertl_> depends what we want  - there could be an option to turn reusable ones to non-reusable ones if they meet criteria - eg no attachments/ not used elsewhere
+08:22:29 <tobiasz> or did you mean the other way round? I thought about that, but what if some single reusable text boxes were actually meant to be reusable?
+08:22:55 <robertl_> hmm, it is quite the complication
+08:22:59 <ghada> tobiasz: that haven't been copied yet
+08:23:15 <aarowlaptop> what was the command to introduce myself?
+08:23:22 <anitsirk> just the #info
+08:24:00 <aarowlaptop> #info aarowlaptop is Aaron Wells from Catalyst IT in Wellington NZ
+08:24:30 <ghada> robertl_, tobiasz: maybe for the first version, we keep it simple and wait for feedback from the community?
+08:24:37 <tobiasz> ok, I'll try to implement an automatic conversion of all reusable text-boxes that aren't copied so far, to plain ones and we can have a look.
+08:25:01 <tobiasz> Yep, we can still add a list and offer the admin to unselect some of them later on
+08:25:38 <anitsirk> #idea there are potentially two migration paths: reusable notes -> simple non-reusable textboxes and textboxes -> notes. the former would be good to have to get rid of the long list of notes that haven't yet been reused, i.e. copied. those should also not contain any attachments.
+08:26:16 <anitsirk> #action tobiasz tries to implement an automatic conversion of all reusable text-boxes that aren't copied so far to plain ones.
+08:26:33 <anitsirk> anything else on this at the moment or take a look at the patch?
+08:26:36 <yuliyabozhko> I wonder if users will be worried that some notes disappear from notes list after migration...
+08:26:50 <ghada> good luck tobiasz
+08:27:02 <yuliyabozhko> :) you'll need it
+08:27:11 <anitsirk> yuliyabozhko: i wonder how many people actually look at that list
+08:27:12 <tobiasz> one short question: has anyone done some conversion like that before? Would I try to do that creating new blocktypes and such or try directly on database level?
+08:27:34 <yuliyabozhko> I don't know, but since it's there we'll never know for sure ;)
+08:27:43 <anitsirk> tobiasz: we did the other way around: plain text box to note several releases ago. maybe that could help to take a look at?
+08:28:04 <tobiasz> right, I remember. Thanks anitsirk
+08:28:29 <anitsirk> tobiasz: it was in mahara 1.5 that they were introduced
+08:28:45 <tobiasz> ok, I'll have a look at that
+08:29:07 <anitsirk> shall we move on?
+08:29:11 <yuliyabozhko> yep
+08:29:20 <anitsirk> #info aarowlaptop to look into gerrit update
+08:29:40 <aarowlaptop> I have not looked into it much yet.
+08:30:19 <ghada> aarowlaptop: we got an email - I think from Eugene - Catalyst Moodle is upgrade gerrit.
+08:30:27 <aarowlaptop> I noticed that too
+08:30:35 <ghada> maybe he would be a good source.
+08:30:41 <anitsirk> let's not put that onto the next agenda because aarowlaptop may not have time until next time. and we can check out our internal gerrit first to see how things go ;-)
+08:30:44 <aarowlaptop> Perhaps we can get whoever's updating the elearning Moodle to upgrade the Mahara one at the same time
+08:30:59 <yuliyabozhko> would be great
+08:30:59 <anitsirk> aarowlaptop: good point. i'll check with eugene
+08:31:37 <anitsirk> #action anitsirk to check if another catalyst dev can upgrade the mahara gerrit since we are upgrading our internal one as well.
+08:31:54 <anitsirk> #info  everyone: to have a look at discussion forum and bug listing https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 if anything can be added to the discussion
+08:32:10 <yuliyabozhko> I think that's the textbox issue again :)
+08:32:23 <anitsirk> yes. so we already covered that :-)
+08:32:24 <ghada> yep
+08:32:35 <anitsirk> #topic Yuliya on documenting undocumented code
+08:32:52 <yuliyabozhko> right, just wanted to make a quick note
+08:33:11 <yuliyabozhko> if someone is fixing things in undocumented method, could you pls add some PHP Docs?
+08:33:24 <yuliyabozhko> it is very difficult to review...
+08:33:35 <rkabalin> #info rkabalin Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, UK
+08:33:40 <anitsirk> hi rkabalin
+08:33:44 <robertl_> sounds a good plan
+08:33:47 <rkabalin> hello, sorry, I am late
+08:33:54 <yuliyabozhko> since lots of us don't know what's going on in code quite often :)
+08:33:59 <tobiasz> agree, sounds like a good idea
+08:34:12 <ghada> yuliyabozhko: i like that idea.
+08:34:16 <yuliyabozhko> and definitely document new code. that should be a must
+08:34:21 <anitsirk> #idea if someone is fixing things in undocumented method, they should add some PHP Docs
+08:34:21 <robertl_> if we are fixing a method we should know what it does :)
+08:34:39 <aarowlaptop> agreed
+08:34:39 <ghada> easier said than done.
+08:34:45 <anitsirk> anyone against?
+08:35:00 <yuliyabozhko> sometimes you learn as you fix things, but someone who is reviewing might not be so sure :)
+08:35:01 <ghada> it would speed up the reviews.
+08:35:44 <anitsirk> #info review process could be sped up by having some docs available in the code as not everyone will be familiar with everything.
+08:35:46 <ghada> i think everyone is for it.
+08:35:53 <yuliyabozhko> yeah, second that :)
+08:36:15 <anitsirk> #agreed: when fixing code in an undocumented method, some PHP docs should be added to aid understanding.
+08:36:28 <yuliyabozhko> that's me
+08:36:36 <rkabalin> +1 from me for documenting
+08:36:38 <anitsirk> alright. that was easy, yuliyabozhko :-)
+08:36:49 <anitsirk> #topic Tobias on Multirecipient messenger
+08:37:00 <tobiasz> The new plugin for the messenger/user notification system is basically finished. There were just a few questions opening up while doing the reviews/fixing their results
+08:37:15 <anitsirk> #info The new plugin for the messenger/user notification system is basically finished. There were just a few questions opening up while doing the reviews/fixing their results
+08:37:23 <tobiasz> first: The inbox blocktype only shows the internal notifications. Is that a huge problem for the patch in general? I suggest editing the existing blocktype to display the messages, when the plugin is active
+08:37:50 <anitsirk> what other notifications are there?
+08:38:11 <anitsirk> #idea The inbox blocktype only shows the internal notifications. Is that a huge problem for the patch in general?
+08:38:17 <tobiasz> well, it's user notifications, but since they are sent over another plugin, the old inbox blocktype doesn't recognize them yet
+08:38:18 <ghada> it won't display the 'new' messages in the table new tables.
+08:38:47 <anitsirk> so the little envelope icon would not light up?
+08:38:55 <yuliyabozhko> does this patch using tables different from activity tables?
+08:39:19 <tobiasz> yes, it does
+08:39:33 <ghada> in the dashboard, the list of messages is not complete - it only displays from the old tables.
+08:39:37 <anitsirk> tobiasz: which question are you answering? ;-)
+08:39:40 <tobiasz> both, the envelope lights up, if you didn't set it to email notification and it uses another table
+08:39:52 <anitsirk> thanks for the clarification
+08:40:10 <tobiasz> sorry, for the unclear answer ^^
+08:40:16 <anitsirk> np
+08:40:49 <anitsirk> i don't think it would be good to have two plugins where one is called inbox but doesn't display all inbox messages
+08:41:22 <tobiasz> I see that the inbox blocktype has to be updated, just would like to now if that has to happen before feature freeze for the plugin in general to be merged
+08:41:45 <yuliyabozhko> hmm, I didn't really see this plugin yet, so can't comment anything
+08:42:03 <tobiasz> the plugin is called "multirecipientnofication" but still, messages should appear in the inbox-blocktype
+08:43:02 <anitsirk> i would say it would be better to have the messages show up in the inbox block for the implementation into core
+08:43:08 <ghada> tobiasz: are you suggesting that the blocktype inbox be modifed - to check if the "multirecipientnotification" is installed?
+08:43:12 <yuliyabozhko> ummm, my very first question is why it is an artefact?
+08:43:44 <tobiasz> yes, ghada, that's my suggestion. It would check if the plugin is active, though, so not to break the blocktype when the plugin is disabled
+08:44:11 <ghada> ok, that makes sense. Since this new plugin is going into core.
+08:44:49 <tobiasz> yuliyabozhko: We started as an artefact for our internal installation to not break the update process. I think I mentioned the idea to integrate it into the core, but no one insisted on that so far ;)
+08:45:14 <yuliyabozhko> does it mean that it stores everything in artefact table too?
+08:45:27 <tobiasz> nope, it has it's own tables
+08:45:33 <yuliyabozhko> it's just we have 'module' plugin now which sounds more like what should be used
+08:45:49 <yuliyabozhko> I mean 'module' type of plugins
+08:45:56 <anitsirk> it would make sense to have it in core. :-)
+08:46:05 <ghada> so, the question is: do we need to upgrade the blocktype inbox before the release of this new artefact?
+08:46:38 <yuliyabozhko> inbox shows activities
+08:46:41 <anitsirk> and should it stay an artefact plugin or be of a different type
+08:46:55 <tobiasz> not sure, if generic module works, because it has to overwrite the existing inbox
+08:46:57 <yuliyabozhko> as I understand this plugin doesn't generate activities?
+08:47:02 <ghada> i'm not familiar with the new 'module' type
+08:47:49 <tobiasz> so far, user notifications are activities
+08:48:00 <yuliyabozhko> yep, that's right
+08:48:50 <aarowlaptop> the "module" plugin type was a new plugin type that we created, which basically is a generic plugin for things that don't match any of the other types
+08:49:11 <ghada> thanks arrowlaptop.
+08:50:01 <tobiasz> I think that in general, all notifications could be changed to work with the new plugin and than I guess it would make sense to move the inbox in general to a module
+08:50:39 <tobiasz> but I doubt I can do that until the feature freeze ;)
+08:50:46 <anitsirk> #idea all notifications could be changed to work with the new plugin and than I guess it would make sense to move the inbox in general to the 'module' plugin type
+08:50:58 <yuliyabozhko> when is the feature freeze?
+08:51:17 <anitsirk> split week of end of July / beginning of August
+08:51:41 <yuliyabozhko> 2 weeks away from now :-/
+08:51:57 <anitsirk> see https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/6MonthlyCycle
+08:52:20 <anitsirk> #info feature freeze is in the week of july 28, 2014
+08:52:49 <yuliyabozhko> changing inbox would be quite a bit of work IMO
+08:53:11 <tobiasz> you mean the blocktype?
+08:53:12 <ghada> you mean the blocktype?
+08:53:25 <ghada> :)
+08:53:39 <tobiasz> :)
+08:53:41 <yuliyabozhko> maybe we need some hooks? :)
+08:54:30 <ghada> tobiasz: what do you think? hooks?
+08:54:43 <yuliyabozhko> or myabe tobiasz can change blocktype fast enough
+08:54:50 <yuliyabozhko> :)
+08:55:30 <tobiasz> I'm lost on the hooks. But I think, I could get the blocktype until end of July
+08:55:47 <ghada> i don't have the code in front of me. But, I had a very quick look at the blocktype. I think it's not a huge change.
+08:56:10 <ghada> it would be where the SQL grabs the messages.
+08:56:19 <yuliyabozhko> you also need to make sure that everything works when plugin is off
+08:56:32 <tobiasz> yeah, that'll be the biggest change
+08:56:33 <ghada> yes, that's why the check for the active plugin
+08:57:03 <anitsirk> yuliyabozhko: do you mean deleted or hidden?
+08:57:22 <anitsirk> when a plugin is hidden in mahara, you can still use the functionality when you know the url to it.
+08:57:23 <yuliyabozhko> both
+08:57:25 <anitsirk> we don't have full disabling
+08:57:26 <ghada> there are functions to check for active plugings.
+08:57:29 <tobiasz> ok, so I'll try to adapt the inbox-blocktype fast enough
+08:58:08 <tobiasz> I'll add one or check with the database. And I'll also consider the case in that someone rips the plugin from the installation
+08:58:14 <anitsirk> tobiasz: be inspired by the 6 goals in the first 30 minutes: much faster than expected ;-)
+08:58:30 <yuliyabozhko> by hook I meant that any plugin can return data in format required by indox and inbox just need to grab it and display
+08:58:32 <ghada> :-D
+08:59:02 <tobiasz> :)
+08:59:15 <ghada> The Germans are happy
+08:59:32 <yuliyabozhko> I bet :D
+08:59:39 <tobiasz> sounds like a good idea though not until feature freeze
+08:59:40 <anitsirk> #info tobiasz will attempt to get the inbox work done before the feature freeze
+08:59:55 <anitsirk> i'll not make it an action item. :-)
+09:00:05 <tobiasz> ok :)
+09:00:12 <ghada> he's already got the text box item to finish.
+09:00:19 <anitsirk> yep.
+09:00:28 <tobiasz> next subpoint: Forum posts appear in the outbox. If there are a lot of subscribers in the forum, there'll be a lot of messages in the outbox. For our installation, we developed a search bar for the inbox/outbox so that messages could easily be found.
+09:00:45 <tobiasz> note: The outbox also comes with the plugin
+09:01:12 <anitsirk> why would forum posts appear in your outbox?
+09:01:23 <anitsirk> is it only the ones that you have sent?
+09:01:41 <tobiasz> nope, it also shows the ones sent via the old notification system
+09:01:59 <anitsirk> so it would be doubling things up? show forum posts in in and outbox?
+09:02:24 <tobiasz> yeah, I guess so
+09:02:40 <tobiasz> you receive a message about your own post, right?
+09:02:46 <anitsirk> i get why they show up in the inbox, but don't know why they should apear in the outbox
+09:02:48 <anitsirk> tobiasz: yes
+09:03:27 <ghada> technically, it's because the forum sent to all the users.
+09:03:41 <tobiasz> the outbox basically shows all notifications that originated from the logged in user. But I can see, how it would make sense to exclude the forum posts from there, now
+09:03:42 <ghada> but, it did get to be quite messy.
+09:04:39 <anitsirk> i think excluding would be sensible since you do get them in the inbox. i would say either one or the other, but since you are the recipient of forum posts, i'd expect them in my inbox.
+09:04:54 <tobiasz> another idea would be to send the forum posts via the new plugin, so they would appear only once. But that'd be for the next release
+09:05:06 <anitsirk> and only want to see my own in an outbox if at all
+09:05:45 <anitsirk> there was a feature request where someone wanted to see all the forum posts they had sent. so that would be an application for showing forum posts in a person's outbox i think
+09:06:31 <anitsirk> tobiasz: what do you mean with "appear only once"?
+09:06:43 <tobiasz> can you find that request again? But for the mean time I think it's best to not show them at all because they flood the outbox
+09:06:54 <anitsirk> yep, agree.
+09:06:58 <anitsirk> i'll try to find it
+09:07:19 <ghada> i agree.
+09:07:19 <tobiasz> anitsirk: each internal notification is a single entry and appears as a single entry in the outbox so far
+09:07:22 <tobiasz> ok
+09:07:53 <tobiasz> next: Ghada linked to a patch with accessibility features that were added to the old patch. I can try to add those to my patch, but if that's crucial, someone else should have a look afterwards to see if there were no new accessibility problems introduced with the extended interface.
+09:08:29 <tobiasz> sorry, I meant to the old inbox not the old patch
+09:08:52 <ghada> robertl_ added some accessibility features to the old inbox.
+09:09:11 <anitsirk> tobiasz: we will need to ensure accessibility to keep up our rating. :-) all new features are to be accessible. it turned out that most didn't take much work
+09:09:41 <robertl_> accessibility is usually just tweaking the templates
+09:10:10 <yuliyabozhko> but someone still needs to test it :)
+09:10:12 <nigelcunningham> Are there docs on making things accessible?
+09:10:17 <tobiasz> ok, just wanted to mention that, so it doesn't get lost. I guess that also can be fixed after the feature freeze
+09:10:23 <yuliyabozhko> wiki
+09:10:25 <robertl_> to add accessible-hidden classes to add screenreader only text
+09:10:42 <yuliyabozhko> https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Accessibility_Checklist
+09:10:46 <nigelcunningham> ta
+09:11:44 <tobiasz> ok, I'll have a look at those, though not necessarily until end of July
+09:12:17 <ghada> I'll see if I can help there.
+09:12:22 <tobiasz> ok, thanks
+09:12:27 <ghada> do you mind me making changes to your patch?
+09:12:41 <ghada> tobiasz^
+09:12:47 <tobiasz> as long as I still can upload afterwards, I don't.
+09:12:59 <ghada> ok.
+09:13:00 <anitsirk> #info new features should pass accessibility testing as accessibility is important in many countries and often required these days.
+09:13:40 <tobiasz> not sure about the rights, once robertl_ edited a patch of mine and afterwards I couldn't upload any more. Not a big issue, unless I still work on the patch
+09:14:06 <yuliyabozhko> you need to checkout the latest version from gerrit
+09:14:26 <ghada> oh, better check. I did some changes to yours on the last patch - some minor stuff - instead of going back and forth.
+09:14:32 <robertl_> there can be author clashes but they can be got around
+09:14:59 <tobiasz> ok, I'll check with the recent patch and I'll find someone to fix it, if I can't upload any more
+09:15:01 <yuliyabozhko> yeah, and make sure to remove everything after sign-off in commit message
+09:15:11 <yuliyabozhko> that always breaks things for me :)
+09:15:28 <ghada> sorry
+09:15:49 <robertl_> sometimes you need to git commit --amend --author="name <email>"
+09:16:02 <robertl_> where your name and email is supplied
+09:16:04 <tobiasz> ok, thanks
+09:16:09 <anitsirk> maybe someone could write up the procedure so it can be referred to?
+09:16:14 <anitsirk> seems to come up from time to time
+09:16:38 <robertl_> yep needs to be added to the mahara wiki
+09:16:57 <anitsirk> any volunteers?
+09:18:16 <anitsirk> sorry for that conversation killer
+09:18:39 <robertl_> I'll try and get some notes together and update the wiki
+09:18:50 <tobiasz> If I have to work that out for this patch, I can add that to the wiki
+09:18:58 <robertl_> I have some notes in a work - so will try and do it monday
+09:19:37 <anitsirk> #action robertl_ to write up notes of how to deal with patches that one person started and another continued and then hands back
+09:19:47 <anitsirk> thank you, robertl_ tobiasz you can then test it and tweak it :-)
+09:19:51 <anitsirk> tobiasz: do you want to move on?
+09:19:55 <tobiasz> yes
+09:20:03 <tobiasz> When a user is deleted, the plugin marks all his messages as deleted by him and complete removes those messages that have been deleted by all other participants. I'm using the display_user method, so I think that works find and makes sense so far.
+09:20:11 <tobiasz> In that discussion, the question arose if user messages should be cleaned up with a cron job, as the help-text tells.
+09:20:27 <tobiasz> We are not that happy with the automatic deletion of user messages, as there is no way to archive/conserve them. The forum posts and view access notifications, on the other hand, only point to information, that can still be found some other place, after the notification has been deleted..
+09:20:41 <anitsirk> https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6355 for reference
+09:20:48 <tobiasz> thanks
+09:21:12 <anitsirk> #info When a user is deleted, the plugin marks all his messages as deleted by him and complete removes those messages that have been deleted by all other participants. In that discussion, the question arose if user messages should be cleaned up with a cron job, as the help-text tells.
+09:21:25 <anitsirk> #info We are not that happy with the automatic deletion of user messages, as there is no way to archive/conserve them. The forum posts and view access notifications, on the other hand, only point to information, that can still be found some other place, after the notification has been deleted.
+09:21:47 <anitsirk> so we are after a few more opinions. :-)
+09:22:41 <ghada> sorry, some clarification. Currently, messages aren't getting deleted.
+09:22:51 <anitsirk> correct
+09:23:03 <anitsirk> even though it says that they are deleted after a certain time.
+09:23:05 <tobiasz> some are, after 6 mongths, I think. But only forum posts, page access notifications and one more
+09:23:07 <ghada> And, there's a request to make that work - after 60 days I think.
+09:23:34 <anitsirk> ghada: that was just me filing it as bug because the system says something but doesn't do it
+09:23:36 <tobiasz> the request is based on the help-text, as far as I remember
+09:23:47 <ghada> yes.
+09:23:58 <anitsirk> i think i mentioned that it might need to be reviewed altogether
+09:24:03 <ghada> so, the issue is, the users will have no history of their messages once they're deleted.
+09:24:12 <anitsirk> correct
+09:24:37 <ghada> whereas, if they receive email notifications, they'll have that history.
+09:24:38 <anitsirk> esp since the message itself is not sent via mail
+09:24:42 <tobiasz> which is fine in my opinion for forum posts and the like, where the actual information still can be found in another place
+09:25:15 <anitsirk> ghada: no. the messages aren't sent. so you'll only know that you received a message, but if it is deleted from the system you have no idea what was in it.
+09:25:16 <tobiasz> but you can change that setting and have the notifications not sent to you via email at all
+09:25:30 <ghada> yes, of course.
+09:25:52 <ghada> so, are we suggesting that we need to have some kind of export of messages?
+09:26:00 <ghada> so they can have a history of them?
+09:26:17 <anitsirk> aarowlaptop made the point that we already have VERP and thus could send out the full message via mail without disclosing the email address of the user
+09:26:22 <ghada> or , do we keep them in the system forever?
+09:26:38 <tobiasz> I'd say, leave the user messages and delete all the other notifications on a regular basis, that just hold redundant information
+09:27:02 <tobiasz> at least until users can save the notifications somehow, like an archiving functionality or folders
+09:27:18 <anitsirk> that sounds good to me.
+09:27:31 <aarowlaptop> sure
+09:27:37 <robertl_> sounds good to me also
+09:27:48 <yuliyabozhko> agree
+09:27:49 <tobiasz> VERP still sounds like a great feature, btw :)
+09:27:50 <ghada> ok, what about , for example, objectionable messages?
+09:27:59 <ghada> that the admin has done nothing about?
+09:28:29 <tobiasz> I wouldn't delete that. Neither membership requests or the like
+09:28:29 <ghada> they will get deleted. But, I guess, if the admin is that slack...
+09:29:12 <tobiasz> the cron job only handles certain notification types, so we can adjust that
+09:29:19 <anitsirk> that would be new page access, group message, new forum post. potentially watchlist as well. not sure about feedback because while you can view your feedback, you may not remember where it was placed if you have heaps of pages and thus might want to go through your messages if you remember when feedback was given?
+09:29:20 <ghada> ok.
+09:29:38 <anitsirk> #idea leave the user messages and delete all the other notifications on a regular basis, that just hold redundant information
+09:30:05 <anitsirk> ghada: i would not delete those automatically. some institutions might want to keep them for an audit trails.
+09:30:18 <ghada> ok.
+09:30:20 <anitsirk> though messages are not great for that. having that in an admin page might be a better idea in the future
+09:31:02 <tobiasz> might just be an extra block type for the admin dashboard
+09:31:51 <anitsirk> i'd thought of under "bulk user actions" where we have the masquerading so you can see how many times a single user offended
+09:32:37 <anitsirk> tobiasz: do you know what you are going to do now? :-)
+09:33:17 <tobiasz> nothing so far, the plugin is fine and the bug is open for everybody ;)
+09:33:24 <anitsirk> :-)
+09:33:42 <tobiasz> any comments on the 60days vs 6 months?
+09:34:01 <anitsirk> 60 days seems a bit short
+09:34:26 <ghada> 6 months is good.
+09:34:34 <nigelcunningham> Configurable?
+09:34:39 <tobiasz> leave it with 6 months and update the help text then, it is
+09:34:49 <anitsirk> yeah. that's the easiest :-)
+09:34:58 <anitsirk> tobiasz: i can do that.
+09:35:25 <anitsirk> tobiasz: did you note down all the items that are deleted after 6 months? i can change the help text easily. doesn't require coding :-0
+09:35:27 <anitsirk> :-)
+09:35:39 <tobiasz> ok, great. We can add the idea for configurability to the bug, right?
+09:35:57 <tobiasz> the ones that are deleted so far are in the comments on the bug
+09:37:19 <anitsirk> tobiasz: great. i'll add it to the bug.
+09:37:40 <tobiasz> ok. In that case I'm finished on that point
+09:37:49 <anitsirk> #action anitsirk to adjust the help text to show the correct number of days that certain messages are deleted. See https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1334576
+09:38:07 <anitsirk> then you can continue, tobiasz :-)
+09:38:13 <anitsirk> #topic Tobias on question plugin
+09:38:31 <tobiasz> I implemented the question feature that was proposed by Totara and we agreed on providing that to Mahara. It's basically ready for testing, there are a few points still open (more sophisticated search for questions, block type, attachments/urls and maybe logging of editing, after the question was opened) but the basic functionality is complete.
+09:38:46 <tobiasz> Basically if you are interested in merging that into mahara, it would be great to get it accepted before the feature freeze.
+09:39:18 <yuliyabozhko> I think Simon did some reviewing of that patch
+09:39:20 <tobiasz> Also, I added likes, which might be moved to a standalone patch
+09:41:10 <tobiasz> yep, though I wasn't sure if he had the time to accompany the patch until the merge
+09:41:48 <anitsirk> tobiasz: thank you. happy for you to propose it and we'll take a look.
+09:41:50 <ghada> do you know the bug number?
+09:42:06 <yuliyabozhko> https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/3406/
+09:42:17 <yuliyabozhko> I mean https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1326425 :)
+09:42:32 <tobiasz> thanks :)
+09:42:32 <anitsirk> #info tobiasz mplemented the question feature that was proposed by Totara and we agreed on providing that to Mahara. It's basically ready for testing, there are a few points still open (more sophisticated search for questions, block type, attachments/urls and maybe logging of editing, after the question was opened) but the basic functionality is complete.
+09:43:03 <anitsirk> tobiasz: i think in the case of this work because it doesn't depend on existing functionality, a staged implementation would be fine.
+09:43:38 <tobiasz> if you want the like-part to be a separate patch, you might have to help me put the dependence into the patch
+09:43:54 <tobiasz> ok, thanks
+09:44:13 <yuliyabozhko> I can help with dependencies
+09:44:22 <tobiasz> ok, great
+09:44:51 <yuliyabozhko> yeah, just let me know what's needed :)
+09:44:58 <tobiasz> sure, thanks :)
+09:45:05 <tobiasz> in that case, I think I'm done
+09:45:21 <anitsirk> thank you, tobiasz. anything else from anyone on this?
+09:45:32 <yuliyabozhko> nope
+09:45:46 <anitsirk> #topic Next meeting and chair
+09:46:07 <yuliyabozhko> I think robertl_ deserves a second chance :D
+09:46:08 <anitsirk> I was thinking of 14 August same time, same place
+09:46:25 <yuliyabozhko> time's good for me
+09:46:29 <yuliyabozhko> place too
+09:46:33 <robertl_> next time I won't book in leave on the same day :)
+09:46:42 <ghada> i'm going to be on holidays...
+09:46:45 <anitsirk> that would be a couple of weeks after feature freeze and hopefully give us a better idea of what can be achieved to put into 1.10
+09:46:46 <yuliyabozhko> ah... are you on leave?
+09:47:14 <robertl_> yep
+09:47:29 <ghada> yes. i'm going to be on leave on the 14th
+09:48:13 <yuliyabozhko> I am fine with any time/date
+09:48:42 <anitsirk> or do we not need a meeting before ui freeze and communicate on gerrit?
+09:49:24 <anitsirk> ehm. meant: communicate on gerrit instead
+09:49:38 <yuliyabozhko> we can make it a week earlier/later?
+09:49:48 <yuliyabozhko> like Aug 7th
+09:49:58 <anitsirk> yuliyabozhko: earlier wouldn't work for me
+09:50:03 <tobiasz> I'm on vacation until the 10th of August
+09:50:13 <yuliyabozhko> hmmm, ok then :) no suggestion from me
+09:50:26 <anitsirk> and we won't have had much time to look into all the things that came in right before the freeze
+09:51:07 <tobiasz> so what about 21st of August?
+09:51:24 <tobiasz> or is that after the rollout?
+09:51:33 <anitsirk> no. that's the week of the ui freeze
+09:51:45 <anitsirk> i think we don't have to worry much about the freezes for our meeting after all
+09:51:55 <anitsirk> because we'll discuss things on gerrit
+09:51:57 <ghada> if the 14th is good for everyone else, i don't have to be there.
+09:51:58 <anitsirk> right?
+09:52:26 <anitsirk> 14th in a way would be good in case someone can take on some more of the reviewing work
+09:52:39 <anitsirk> and volunteers here in the meeitng
+09:52:40 <anitsirk> meeting
+09:52:59 <anitsirk> but other than that, i think the 21st would work as well
+09:53:14 <anitsirk> robertl_ and aarowlaptop and rkabalin? any preferences?
+09:53:23 <anitsirk> oh and tonyjbutler?
+09:53:42 <anitsirk> if not, we'll roll the dice ;-)
+09:53:46 <robertl_> 14th is fine so is the 21st
+09:53:53 <aarowlaptop> either is fine for me as well
+09:54:00 <yuliyabozhko> same for me
+09:54:11 <tonyjbutler> both fine for me
+09:54:21 <nigelcunningham> And me
+09:54:49 <ghada> i can't commit to either - unfortunately.
+09:54:52 <nigelcunningham> By the way, "Hi guys".  Nice to meet you all.
+09:54:58 <rkabalin> august 7th is fine
+09:55:39 <anitsirk> since all can on the 14th and ghada doesn't know for either, i suggest the 14th so we can discuss things in a bigger group before the UI freeze if necessary.
+09:56:00 <yuliyabozhko> sounds good
+09:56:00 <ghada> i'll try and pop in if I can.
+09:56:59 <anitsirk> #info the 35th Developer Meeting will take place on 14 August at 8:00 UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=35th+Mahara+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140814T00
+09:57:02 <anitsirk> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=35th+Mahara+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140814T00
+09:57:08 <anitsirk> and who wants to chair?
+09:57:27 <robertl_> I try and organise myself better and do it
+09:57:32 <anitsirk> ghada: thank you. if you can't and have some things, we can discuss them before you go on leave
+09:57:38 <anitsirk> thank you, robertl_
+09:57:44 <yuliyabozhko> :) awesome
+09:57:46 <anitsirk> #info robertl_ will be the chair.
+09:57:55 <anitsirk> #topic Any other business
+09:57:57 <ghada> anitsirk: sure.
+09:59:01 <anitsirk> doesn't look like anyone has anything else.
+09:59:07 <anitsirk> going once
+09:59:12 <yuliyabozhko> nope, I don't have anything
+09:59:14 <anitsirk> going twice
+09:59:20 <anitsirk> done.
+09:59:39 <anitsirk> thank you all very much for attending and discussing in today's dev meeting. happy programming and see you soon.
+09:59:43 <anitsirk> #endmeeting
+ diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-07-10-08.06.log.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-07-10-08.06.log.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..1d81aca6f8ac464c51ed767f67c9919fa8b5db2d --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-07-10-08.06.log.txt @@ -0,0 +1,437 @@ +08:06:44 #startmeeting +08:06:44 Meeting started Thu Jul 10 08:06:44 2014 UTC. The chair is anitsirk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. +08:06:44 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. +08:06:59 Hello and welcome to the 34th Mahara Developer Meeting. +08:07:14 Please let us know who you are with fronting your intro using #info +08:07:22 #info ghada-laptop is Ghada El-Zoghbi from Catalyst-IT Sydney. +08:07:24 #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:07:25 #info tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany +08:07:45 #info yuliya is Yuliya Bozhko, developer at TotaraLMS, Wellington NZ +08:07:48 #info robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:07:51 #info Tony Butler, Moodle/Mahara developer at Lancaster University UK +08:08:02 hi nigelcunningham +08:08:07 Just a note: If you have something long to say, please put .. on a line by itself once you are done to indicate the end of a long statement. +08:08:10 Hi. +08:08:43 And please feel free to use meetbot commands yourself to put something into the minutes, e.g. by using #info or #idea where appropriate / wanted. +08:08:49 we've started the meeting. +08:09:19 #info Nigel Cunningham, developer at Catalyst, Melbourne AU +08:09:34 great. thank you. that should be almost all. let's get rolling. +08:09:45 #topic everyone: to comment on the individual items from enhancement list made by the Ljubljana group in the forums / bugs and then talk about them if needed : https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 +08:09:57 #undo +08:09:57 Removing item from minutes: +08:10:00 sorry. +08:10:05 #topic: Items from last meeting +08:10:12 #info everyone: to comment on the individual items from enhancement list made by the Ljubljana group in the forums / bugs and then talk about them if needed : https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 +08:10:21 did anyone have time to explore / comment? +08:10:38 i explored but didn't really comment. +08:10:48 did anything strike you, ghada? +08:11:12 e.g. that should be discussed, that needs clarification? +08:11:12 A lot of them have started development. +08:11:23 a few have been rejected - I think two? +08:11:36 some have been fixed already as well +08:11:44 yes. +08:11:44 I was working on 548021 today - probably about half done now. +08:11:59 i'm afraid I'm not on top of one that we've been discussing: the anonymous page +08:12:03 i picked up one as well. +08:12:31 He came back and said that he needs clarification from the group +08:12:44 probably enough just to remove the 'by' +08:12:49 ah that's the one, nigelcunningham +08:13:12 I commented on 1296392 +08:13:41 also tobiasz started working on simple text box, right? +08:13:41 but would need more clarification on how things would work before starting code on it +08:13:58 yes, i saw a review for the simple text box. +08:14:05 yep, it's basically, copy, paste, rename and delete features that it doesn't need +08:14:07 not sure if it's related to a textbox copying issue... +08:14:31 we're going to split them into two separate "text boxes" +08:14:41 one is 'notes' and the other is 'text box'. +08:14:47 I think so, I still don't quite understand if we reached any decision last time :) +08:14:48 I'm trying to figure out how to migrate single notes into textboxes, but unless we put that into the plugin configuration, I guess, the patch is ready for testing +08:15:17 #info a number of items are started and have patches. others need clarification. +08:15:50 tobiasz: how do you deal with textboxes now? do they migrate? +08:16:09 tobiasz if the plugin needs installing on upgrade then having the db changes in the plugin would be best +08:16:11 don't think so, at least not yet +08:16:19 they don't, so far. I just created the plain text box block type that is not related to an artefact +08:17:12 i think a migration of those text boxes that have not yet been used in other pages would be useful for the points discussed last time. what do you think? +08:17:35 I don't feel comfortable with migrating any note-textboxes automatically, so I think, there won't be any installing. But I'll have a look again at that +08:17:37 sounds reasonable +08:18:10 are the users going to be able to convert a textbox to a note? +08:18:13 with automatically I mean without any user consent, like, when installing the plugin +08:19:00 ghada: i don't think that is currently planned. +08:19:12 ok. +08:19:31 yeah, it might be not that simple and will just confuse users +08:19:44 yes, you're right. +08:19:50 you could have the block have an admin config option that says 'change textboxes to notes' +08:19:56 I think, a migration in the other direction would be more hlelpful, as it would also clean up the endless list of notes to insert +08:20:08 agree, tobiasz +08:20:16 yes, i agree also. +08:20:37 esp since we don't have bulk delete ;-) +08:20:37 yep, that would be good +08:21:06 robertl_: and that would just migrate all textboxes to notes? Are we talking about converting the new, plain text box to the reusable one? +08:21:06 hi aarowlaptop. can you please briefly introduce yourself for the minutes? +08:22:18 depends what we want - there could be an option to turn reusable ones to non-reusable ones if they meet criteria - eg no attachments/ not used elsewhere +08:22:29 or did you mean the other way round? I thought about that, but what if some single reusable text boxes were actually meant to be reusable? +08:22:55 hmm, it is quite the complication +08:22:59 tobiasz: that haven't been copied yet +08:23:15 what was the command to introduce myself? +08:23:22 just the #info +08:24:00 #info aarowlaptop is Aaron Wells from Catalyst IT in Wellington NZ +08:24:30 robertl_, tobiasz: maybe for the first version, we keep it simple and wait for feedback from the community? +08:24:37 ok, I'll try to implement an automatic conversion of all reusable text-boxes that aren't copied so far, to plain ones and we can have a look. +08:25:01 Yep, we can still add a list and offer the admin to unselect some of them later on +08:25:38 #idea there are potentially two migration paths: reusable notes -> simple non-reusable textboxes and textboxes -> notes. the former would be good to have to get rid of the long list of notes that haven't yet been reused, i.e. copied. those should also not contain any attachments. +08:26:16 #action tobiasz tries to implement an automatic conversion of all reusable text-boxes that aren't copied so far to plain ones. +08:26:33 anything else on this at the moment or take a look at the patch? +08:26:36 I wonder if users will be worried that some notes disappear from notes list after migration... +08:26:50 good luck tobiasz +08:27:02 :) you'll need it +08:27:11 yuliyabozhko: i wonder how many people actually look at that list +08:27:12 one short question: has anyone done some conversion like that before? Would I try to do that creating new blocktypes and such or try directly on database level? +08:27:34 I don't know, but since it's there we'll never know for sure ;) +08:27:43 tobiasz: we did the other way around: plain text box to note several releases ago. maybe that could help to take a look at? +08:28:04 right, I remember. Thanks anitsirk +08:28:29 tobiasz: it was in mahara 1.5 that they were introduced +08:28:45 ok, I'll have a look at that +08:29:07 shall we move on? +08:29:11 yep +08:29:20 #info aarowlaptop to look into gerrit update +08:29:40 I have not looked into it much yet. +08:30:19 aarowlaptop: we got an email - I think from Eugene - Catalyst Moodle is upgrade gerrit. +08:30:27 I noticed that too +08:30:35 maybe he would be a good source. +08:30:41 let's not put that onto the next agenda because aarowlaptop may not have time until next time. and we can check out our internal gerrit first to see how things go ;-) +08:30:44 Perhaps we can get whoever's updating the elearning Moodle to upgrade the Mahara one at the same time +08:30:59 would be great +08:30:59 aarowlaptop: good point. i'll check with eugene +08:31:37 #action anitsirk to check if another catalyst dev can upgrade the mahara gerrit since we are upgrading our internal one as well. +08:31:54 #info everyone: to have a look at discussion forum and bug listing https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 if anything can be added to the discussion +08:32:10 I think that's the textbox issue again :) +08:32:23 yes. so we already covered that :-) +08:32:24 yep +08:32:35 #topic Yuliya on documenting undocumented code +08:32:52 right, just wanted to make a quick note +08:33:11 if someone is fixing things in undocumented method, could you pls add some PHP Docs? +08:33:24 it is very difficult to review... +08:33:35 #info rkabalin Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, UK +08:33:40 hi rkabalin +08:33:44 sounds a good plan +08:33:47 hello, sorry, I am late +08:33:54 since lots of us don't know what's going on in code quite often :) +08:33:59 agree, sounds like a good idea +08:34:12 yuliyabozhko: i like that idea. +08:34:16 and definitely document new code. that should be a must +08:34:21 #idea if someone is fixing things in undocumented method, they should add some PHP Docs +08:34:21 if we are fixing a method we should know what it does :) +08:34:39 agreed +08:34:39 easier said than done. +08:34:45 anyone against? +08:35:00 sometimes you learn as you fix things, but someone who is reviewing might not be so sure :) +08:35:01 it would speed up the reviews. +08:35:44 #info review process could be sped up by having some docs available in the code as not everyone will be familiar with everything. +08:35:46 i think everyone is for it. +08:35:53 yeah, second that :) +08:36:15 #agreed: when fixing code in an undocumented method, some PHP docs should be added to aid understanding. +08:36:28 that's me +08:36:36 +1 from me for documenting +08:36:38 alright. that was easy, yuliyabozhko :-) +08:36:49 #topic Tobias on Multirecipient messenger +08:37:00 The new plugin for the messenger/user notification system is basically finished. There were just a few questions opening up while doing the reviews/fixing their results +08:37:15 #info The new plugin for the messenger/user notification system is basically finished. There were just a few questions opening up while doing the reviews/fixing their results +08:37:23 first: The inbox blocktype only shows the internal notifications. Is that a huge problem for the patch in general? I suggest editing the existing blocktype to display the messages, when the plugin is active +08:37:50 what other notifications are there? +08:38:11 #idea The inbox blocktype only shows the internal notifications. Is that a huge problem for the patch in general? +08:38:17 well, it's user notifications, but since they are sent over another plugin, the old inbox blocktype doesn't recognize them yet +08:38:18 it won't display the 'new' messages in the table new tables. +08:38:47 so the little envelope icon would not light up? +08:38:55 does this patch using tables different from activity tables? +08:39:19 yes, it does +08:39:33 in the dashboard, the list of messages is not complete - it only displays from the old tables. +08:39:37 tobiasz: which question are you answering? ;-) +08:39:40 both, the envelope lights up, if you didn't set it to email notification and it uses another table +08:39:52 thanks for the clarification +08:40:10 sorry, for the unclear answer ^^ +08:40:16 np +08:40:49 i don't think it would be good to have two plugins where one is called inbox but doesn't display all inbox messages +08:41:22 I see that the inbox blocktype has to be updated, just would like to now if that has to happen before feature freeze for the plugin in general to be merged +08:41:45 hmm, I didn't really see this plugin yet, so can't comment anything +08:42:03 the plugin is called "multirecipientnofication" but still, messages should appear in the inbox-blocktype +08:43:02 i would say it would be better to have the messages show up in the inbox block for the implementation into core +08:43:08 tobiasz: are you suggesting that the blocktype inbox be modifed - to check if the "multirecipientnotification" is installed? +08:43:12 ummm, my very first question is why it is an artefact? +08:43:44 yes, ghada, that's my suggestion. It would check if the plugin is active, though, so not to break the blocktype when the plugin is disabled +08:44:11 ok, that makes sense. Since this new plugin is going into core. +08:44:49 yuliyabozhko: We started as an artefact for our internal installation to not break the update process. I think I mentioned the idea to integrate it into the core, but no one insisted on that so far ;) +08:45:14 does it mean that it stores everything in artefact table too? +08:45:27 nope, it has it's own tables +08:45:33 it's just we have 'module' plugin now which sounds more like what should be used +08:45:49 I mean 'module' type of plugins +08:45:56 it would make sense to have it in core. :-) +08:46:05 so, the question is: do we need to upgrade the blocktype inbox before the release of this new artefact? +08:46:38 inbox shows activities +08:46:41 and should it stay an artefact plugin or be of a different type +08:46:55 not sure, if generic module works, because it has to overwrite the existing inbox +08:46:57 as I understand this plugin doesn't generate activities? +08:47:02 i'm not familiar with the new 'module' type +08:47:49 so far, user notifications are activities +08:48:00 yep, that's right +08:48:50 the "module" plugin type was a new plugin type that we created, which basically is a generic plugin for things that don't match any of the other types +08:49:11 thanks arrowlaptop. +08:50:01 I think that in general, all notifications could be changed to work with the new plugin and than I guess it would make sense to move the inbox in general to a module +08:50:39 but I doubt I can do that until the feature freeze ;) +08:50:46 #idea all notifications could be changed to work with the new plugin and than I guess it would make sense to move the inbox in general to the 'module' plugin type +08:50:58 when is the feature freeze? +08:51:17 split week of end of July / beginning of August +08:51:41 2 weeks away from now :-/ +08:51:57 see https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/6MonthlyCycle +08:52:20 #info feature freeze is in the week of july 28, 2014 +08:52:49 changing inbox would be quite a bit of work IMO +08:53:11 you mean the blocktype? +08:53:12 you mean the blocktype? +08:53:25 :) +08:53:39 :) +08:53:41 maybe we need some hooks? :) +08:54:30 tobiasz: what do you think? hooks? +08:54:43 or myabe tobiasz can change blocktype fast enough +08:54:50 :) +08:55:30 I'm lost on the hooks. But I think, I could get the blocktype until end of July +08:55:47 i don't have the code in front of me. But, I had a very quick look at the blocktype. I think it's not a huge change. +08:56:10 it would be where the SQL grabs the messages. +08:56:19 you also need to make sure that everything works when plugin is off +08:56:32 yeah, that'll be the biggest change +08:56:33 yes, that's why the check for the active plugin +08:57:03 yuliyabozhko: do you mean deleted or hidden? +08:57:22 when a plugin is hidden in mahara, you can still use the functionality when you know the url to it. +08:57:23 both +08:57:25 we don't have full disabling +08:57:26 there are functions to check for active plugings. +08:57:29 ok, so I'll try to adapt the inbox-blocktype fast enough +08:58:08 I'll add one or check with the database. And I'll also consider the case in that someone rips the plugin from the installation +08:58:14 tobiasz: be inspired by the 6 goals in the first 30 minutes: much faster than expected ;-) +08:58:30 by hook I meant that any plugin can return data in format required by indox and inbox just need to grab it and display +08:58:32 :-D +08:59:02 :) +08:59:15 The Germans are happy +08:59:32 I bet :D +08:59:39 sounds like a good idea though not until feature freeze +08:59:40 #info tobiasz will attempt to get the inbox work done before the feature freeze +08:59:55 i'll not make it an action item. :-) +09:00:05 ok :) +09:00:12 he's already got the text box item to finish. +09:00:19 yep. +09:00:28 next subpoint: Forum posts appear in the outbox. If there are a lot of subscribers in the forum, there'll be a lot of messages in the outbox. For our installation, we developed a search bar for the inbox/outbox so that messages could easily be found. +09:00:45 note: The outbox also comes with the plugin +09:01:12 why would forum posts appear in your outbox? +09:01:23 is it only the ones that you have sent? +09:01:41 nope, it also shows the ones sent via the old notification system +09:01:59 so it would be doubling things up? show forum posts in in and outbox? +09:02:24 yeah, I guess so +09:02:40 you receive a message about your own post, right? +09:02:46 i get why they show up in the inbox, but don't know why they should apear in the outbox +09:02:48 tobiasz: yes +09:03:27 technically, it's because the forum sent to all the users. +09:03:41 the outbox basically shows all notifications that originated from the logged in user. But I can see, how it would make sense to exclude the forum posts from there, now +09:03:42 but, it did get to be quite messy. +09:04:39 i think excluding would be sensible since you do get them in the inbox. i would say either one or the other, but since you are the recipient of forum posts, i'd expect them in my inbox. +09:04:54 another idea would be to send the forum posts via the new plugin, so they would appear only once. But that'd be for the next release +09:05:06 and only want to see my own in an outbox if at all +09:05:45 there was a feature request where someone wanted to see all the forum posts they had sent. so that would be an application for showing forum posts in a person's outbox i think +09:06:31 tobiasz: what do you mean with "appear only once"? +09:06:43 can you find that request again? But for the mean time I think it's best to not show them at all because they flood the outbox +09:06:54 yep, agree. +09:06:58 i'll try to find it +09:07:19 i agree. +09:07:19 anitsirk: each internal notification is a single entry and appears as a single entry in the outbox so far +09:07:22 ok +09:07:53 next: Ghada linked to a patch with accessibility features that were added to the old patch. I can try to add those to my patch, but if that's crucial, someone else should have a look afterwards to see if there were no new accessibility problems introduced with the extended interface. +09:08:29 sorry, I meant to the old inbox not the old patch +09:08:52 robertl_ added some accessibility features to the old inbox. +09:09:11 tobiasz: we will need to ensure accessibility to keep up our rating. :-) all new features are to be accessible. it turned out that most didn't take much work +09:09:41 accessibility is usually just tweaking the templates +09:10:10 but someone still needs to test it :) +09:10:12 Are there docs on making things accessible? +09:10:17 ok, just wanted to mention that, so it doesn't get lost. I guess that also can be fixed after the feature freeze +09:10:23 wiki +09:10:25 to add accessible-hidden classes to add screenreader only text +09:10:42 https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Accessibility_Checklist +09:10:46 ta +09:11:44 ok, I'll have a look at those, though not necessarily until end of July +09:12:17 I'll see if I can help there. +09:12:22 ok, thanks +09:12:27 do you mind me making changes to your patch? +09:12:41 tobiasz^ +09:12:47 as long as I still can upload afterwards, I don't. +09:12:59 ok. +09:13:00 #info new features should pass accessibility testing as accessibility is important in many countries and often required these days. +09:13:40 not sure about the rights, once robertl_ edited a patch of mine and afterwards I couldn't upload any more. Not a big issue, unless I still work on the patch +09:14:06 you need to checkout the latest version from gerrit +09:14:26 oh, better check. I did some changes to yours on the last patch - some minor stuff - instead of going back and forth. +09:14:32 there can be author clashes but they can be got around +09:14:59 ok, I'll check with the recent patch and I'll find someone to fix it, if I can't upload any more +09:15:01 yeah, and make sure to remove everything after sign-off in commit message +09:15:11 that always breaks things for me :) +09:15:28 sorry +09:15:49 sometimes you need to git commit --amend --author="name " +09:16:02 where your name and email is supplied +09:16:04 ok, thanks +09:16:09 maybe someone could write up the procedure so it can be referred to? +09:16:14 seems to come up from time to time +09:16:38 yep needs to be added to the mahara wiki +09:16:57 any volunteers? +09:18:16 sorry for that conversation killer +09:18:39 I'll try and get some notes together and update the wiki +09:18:50 If I have to work that out for this patch, I can add that to the wiki +09:18:58 I have some notes in a work - so will try and do it monday +09:19:37 #action robertl_ to write up notes of how to deal with patches that one person started and another continued and then hands back +09:19:47 thank you, robertl_ tobiasz you can then test it and tweak it :-) +09:19:51 tobiasz: do you want to move on? +09:19:55 yes +09:20:03 When a user is deleted, the plugin marks all his messages as deleted by him and complete removes those messages that have been deleted by all other participants. I'm using the display_user method, so I think that works find and makes sense so far. +09:20:11 In that discussion, the question arose if user messages should be cleaned up with a cron job, as the help-text tells. +09:20:27 We are not that happy with the automatic deletion of user messages, as there is no way to archive/conserve them. The forum posts and view access notifications, on the other hand, only point to information, that can still be found some other place, after the notification has been deleted.. +09:20:41 https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6355 for reference +09:20:48 thanks +09:21:12 #info When a user is deleted, the plugin marks all his messages as deleted by him and complete removes those messages that have been deleted by all other participants. In that discussion, the question arose if user messages should be cleaned up with a cron job, as the help-text tells. +09:21:25 #info We are not that happy with the automatic deletion of user messages, as there is no way to archive/conserve them. The forum posts and view access notifications, on the other hand, only point to information, that can still be found some other place, after the notification has been deleted. +09:21:47 so we are after a few more opinions. :-) +09:22:41 sorry, some clarification. Currently, messages aren't getting deleted. +09:22:51 correct +09:23:03 even though it says that they are deleted after a certain time. +09:23:05 some are, after 6 mongths, I think. But only forum posts, page access notifications and one more +09:23:07 And, there's a request to make that work - after 60 days I think. +09:23:34 ghada: that was just me filing it as bug because the system says something but doesn't do it +09:23:36 the request is based on the help-text, as far as I remember +09:23:47 yes. +09:23:58 i think i mentioned that it might need to be reviewed altogether +09:24:03 so, the issue is, the users will have no history of their messages once they're deleted. +09:24:12 correct +09:24:37 whereas, if they receive email notifications, they'll have that history. +09:24:38 esp since the message itself is not sent via mail +09:24:42 which is fine in my opinion for forum posts and the like, where the actual information still can be found in another place +09:25:15 ghada: no. the messages aren't sent. so you'll only know that you received a message, but if it is deleted from the system you have no idea what was in it. +09:25:16 but you can change that setting and have the notifications not sent to you via email at all +09:25:30 yes, of course. +09:25:52 so, are we suggesting that we need to have some kind of export of messages? +09:26:00 so they can have a history of them? +09:26:17 aarowlaptop made the point that we already have VERP and thus could send out the full message via mail without disclosing the email address of the user +09:26:22 or , do we keep them in the system forever? +09:26:38 I'd say, leave the user messages and delete all the other notifications on a regular basis, that just hold redundant information +09:27:02 at least until users can save the notifications somehow, like an archiving functionality or folders +09:27:18 that sounds good to me. +09:27:31 sure +09:27:37 sounds good to me also +09:27:48 agree +09:27:49 VERP still sounds like a great feature, btw :) +09:27:50 ok, what about , for example, objectionable messages? +09:27:59 that the admin has done nothing about? +09:28:29 I wouldn't delete that. Neither membership requests or the like +09:28:29 they will get deleted. But, I guess, if the admin is that slack... +09:29:12 the cron job only handles certain notification types, so we can adjust that +09:29:19 that would be new page access, group message, new forum post. potentially watchlist as well. not sure about feedback because while you can view your feedback, you may not remember where it was placed if you have heaps of pages and thus might want to go through your messages if you remember when feedback was given? +09:29:20 ok. +09:29:38 #idea leave the user messages and delete all the other notifications on a regular basis, that just hold redundant information +09:30:05 ghada: i would not delete those automatically. some institutions might want to keep them for an audit trails. +09:30:18 ok. +09:30:20 though messages are not great for that. having that in an admin page might be a better idea in the future +09:31:02 might just be an extra block type for the admin dashboard +09:31:51 i'd thought of under "bulk user actions" where we have the masquerading so you can see how many times a single user offended +09:32:37 tobiasz: do you know what you are going to do now? :-) +09:33:17 nothing so far, the plugin is fine and the bug is open for everybody ;) +09:33:24 :-) +09:33:42 any comments on the 60days vs 6 months? +09:34:01 60 days seems a bit short +09:34:26 6 months is good. +09:34:34 Configurable? +09:34:39 leave it with 6 months and update the help text then, it is +09:34:49 yeah. that's the easiest :-) +09:34:58 tobiasz: i can do that. +09:35:25 tobiasz: did you note down all the items that are deleted after 6 months? i can change the help text easily. doesn't require coding :-0 +09:35:27 :-) +09:35:39 ok, great. We can add the idea for configurability to the bug, right? +09:35:57 the ones that are deleted so far are in the comments on the bug +09:37:19 tobiasz: great. i'll add it to the bug. +09:37:40 ok. In that case I'm finished on that point +09:37:49 #action anitsirk to adjust the help text to show the correct number of days that certain messages are deleted. See https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1334576 +09:38:07 then you can continue, tobiasz :-) +09:38:13 #topic Tobias on question plugin +09:38:31 I implemented the question feature that was proposed by Totara and we agreed on providing that to Mahara. It's basically ready for testing, there are a few points still open (more sophisticated search for questions, block type, attachments/urls and maybe logging of editing, after the question was opened) but the basic functionality is complete. +09:38:46 Basically if you are interested in merging that into mahara, it would be great to get it accepted before the feature freeze. +09:39:18 I think Simon did some reviewing of that patch +09:39:20 Also, I added likes, which might be moved to a standalone patch +09:41:10 yep, though I wasn't sure if he had the time to accompany the patch until the merge +09:41:48 tobiasz: thank you. happy for you to propose it and we'll take a look. +09:41:50 do you know the bug number? +09:42:06 https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/3406/ +09:42:17 I mean https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1326425 :) +09:42:32 thanks :) +09:42:32 #info tobiasz mplemented the question feature that was proposed by Totara and we agreed on providing that to Mahara. It's basically ready for testing, there are a few points still open (more sophisticated search for questions, block type, attachments/urls and maybe logging of editing, after the question was opened) but the basic functionality is complete. +09:43:03 tobiasz: i think in the case of this work because it doesn't depend on existing functionality, a staged implementation would be fine. +09:43:38 if you want the like-part to be a separate patch, you might have to help me put the dependence into the patch +09:43:54 ok, thanks +09:44:13 I can help with dependencies +09:44:22 ok, great +09:44:51 yeah, just let me know what's needed :) +09:44:58 sure, thanks :) +09:45:05 in that case, I think I'm done +09:45:21 thank you, tobiasz. anything else from anyone on this? +09:45:32 nope +09:45:46 #topic Next meeting and chair +09:46:07 I think robertl_ deserves a second chance :D +09:46:08 I was thinking of 14 August same time, same place +09:46:25 time's good for me +09:46:29 place too +09:46:33 next time I won't book in leave on the same day :) +09:46:42 i'm going to be on holidays... +09:46:45 that would be a couple of weeks after feature freeze and hopefully give us a better idea of what can be achieved to put into 1.10 +09:46:46 ah... are you on leave? +09:47:14 yep +09:47:29 yes. i'm going to be on leave on the 14th +09:48:13 I am fine with any time/date +09:48:42 or do we not need a meeting before ui freeze and communicate on gerrit? +09:49:24 ehm. meant: communicate on gerrit instead +09:49:38 we can make it a week earlier/later? +09:49:48 like Aug 7th +09:49:58 yuliyabozhko: earlier wouldn't work for me +09:50:03 I'm on vacation until the 10th of August +09:50:13 hmmm, ok then :) no suggestion from me +09:50:26 and we won't have had much time to look into all the things that came in right before the freeze +09:51:07 so what about 21st of August? +09:51:24 or is that after the rollout? +09:51:33 no. that's the week of the ui freeze +09:51:45 i think we don't have to worry much about the freezes for our meeting after all +09:51:55 because we'll discuss things on gerrit +09:51:57 if the 14th is good for everyone else, i don't have to be there. +09:51:58 right? +09:52:26 14th in a way would be good in case someone can take on some more of the reviewing work +09:52:39 and volunteers here in the meeitng +09:52:40 meeting +09:52:59 but other than that, i think the 21st would work as well +09:53:14 robertl_ and aarowlaptop and rkabalin? any preferences? +09:53:23 oh and tonyjbutler? +09:53:42 if not, we'll roll the dice ;-) +09:53:46 14th is fine so is the 21st +09:53:53 either is fine for me as well +09:54:00 same for me +09:54:11 both fine for me +09:54:21 And me +09:54:49 i can't commit to either - unfortunately. +09:54:52 By the way, "Hi guys". Nice to meet you all. +09:54:58 august 7th is fine +09:55:39 since all can on the 14th and ghada doesn't know for either, i suggest the 14th so we can discuss things in a bigger group before the UI freeze if necessary. +09:56:00 sounds good +09:56:00 i'll try and pop in if I can. +09:56:59 #info the 35th Developer Meeting will take place on 14 August at 8:00 UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=35th+Mahara+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140814T00 +09:57:02 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=35th+Mahara+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140814T00 +09:57:08 and who wants to chair? +09:57:27 I try and organise myself better and do it +09:57:32 ghada: thank you. if you can't and have some things, we can discuss them before you go on leave +09:57:38 thank you, robertl_ +09:57:44 :) awesome +09:57:46 #info robertl_ will be the chair. +09:57:55 #topic Any other business +09:57:57 anitsirk: sure. +09:59:01 doesn't look like anyone has anything else. +09:59:07 going once +09:59:12 nope, I don't have anything +09:59:14 going twice +09:59:20 done. +09:59:39 thank you all very much for attending and discussing in today's dev meeting. happy programming and see you soon. +09:59:43 #endmeeting \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-07-10-08.06.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-07-10-08.06.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..5bf7585bc4791cfc31a344b152a330174297f374 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-07-10-08.06.txt @@ -0,0 +1,185 @@ +=================== +#mahara-dev Meeting +=================== + + +Meeting started by anitsirk at 08:06:44 UTC. The full logs are available +at +http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-07-10-08.06.log.html +. + + + +Meeting summary +--------------- +* ghada-laptop is Ghada El-Zoghbi from Catalyst-IT Sydney. (ghada, + 08:07:22) +* anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ (anitsirk, + 08:07:24) +* tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at the KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany + (tobiasz, 08:07:25) +* yuliya is Yuliya Bozhko, developer at TotaraLMS, Wellington NZ + (yuliyabozhko, 08:07:45) +* robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ (robertl_, + 08:07:48) +* Tony Butler, Moodle/Mahara developer at Lancaster University UK + (tonyjbutler, 08:07:51) +* Nigel Cunningham, developer at Catalyst, Melbourne AU + (nigelcunningham, 08:09:19) +* : Items from last meeting (anitsirk, 08:10:05) + * everyone: to comment on the individual items from enhancement list + made by the Ljubljana group in the forums / bugs and then talk + about them if needed : + https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6283 (anitsirk, + 08:10:12) + * a number of items are started and have patches. others need + clarification. (anitsirk, 08:15:17) + * aarowlaptop is Aaron Wells from Catalyst IT in Wellington NZ + (aarowlaptop, 08:24:00) + * IDEA: there are potentially two migration paths: reusable notes -> + simple non-reusable textboxes and textboxes -> notes. the former + would be good to have to get rid of the long list of notes that + haven't yet been reused, i.e. copied. those should also not contain + any attachments. (anitsirk, 08:25:38) + * ACTION: tobiasz tries to implement an automatic conversion of all + reusable text-boxes that aren't copied so far to plain ones. + (anitsirk, 08:26:16) + * aarowlaptop to look into gerrit update (anitsirk, 08:29:20) + * ACTION: anitsirk to check if another catalyst dev can upgrade the + mahara gerrit since we are upgrading our internal one as well. + (anitsirk, 08:31:37) + * everyone: to have a look at discussion forum and bug listing + https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1296390 if anything can be + added to the discussion (anitsirk, 08:31:54) + +* Yuliya on documenting undocumented code (anitsirk, 08:32:35) + * rkabalin Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, UK (rkabalin, + 08:33:35) + * IDEA: if someone is fixing things in undocumented method, they + should add some PHP Docs (anitsirk, 08:34:21) + * review process could be sped up by having some docs available in the + code as not everyone will be familiar with everything. (anitsirk, + 08:35:44) + * AGREED: : when fixing code in an undocumented method, some PHP docs + should be added to aid understanding. (anitsirk, 08:36:15) + +* Tobias on Multirecipient messenger (anitsirk, 08:36:49) + * The new plugin for the messenger/user notification system is + basically finished. There were just a few questions opening up while + doing the reviews/fixing their results (anitsirk, 08:37:15) + * IDEA: The inbox blocktype only shows the internal notifications. Is + that a huge problem for the patch in general? (anitsirk, 08:38:11) + * IDEA: all notifications could be changed to work with the new plugin + and than I guess it would make sense to move the inbox in general to + the 'module' plugin type (anitsirk, 08:50:46) + * feature freeze is in the week of july 28, 2014 (anitsirk, 08:52:20) + * tobiasz will attempt to get the inbox work done before the feature + freeze (anitsirk, 08:59:40) + * LINK: + https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Accessibility_Checklist + (yuliyabozhko, 09:10:42) + * new features should pass accessibility testing as accessibility is + important in many countries and often required these days. + (anitsirk, 09:13:00) + * ACTION: robertl_ to write up notes of how to deal with patches that + one person started and another continued and then hands back + (anitsirk, 09:19:37) + * LINK: https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6355 for + reference (anitsirk, 09:20:41) + * When a user is deleted, the plugin marks all his messages as deleted + by him and complete removes those messages that have been deleted by + all other participants. In that discussion, the question arose if + user messages should be cleaned up with a cron job, as the help-text + tells. (anitsirk, 09:21:12) + * We are not that happy with the automatic deletion of user messages, + as there is no way to archive/conserve them. The forum posts and + view access notifications, on the other hand, only point to + information, that can still be found some other place, after the + notification has been deleted. (anitsirk, 09:21:25) + * IDEA: leave the user messages and delete all the other notifications + on a regular basis, that just hold redundant information (anitsirk, + 09:29:38) + * ACTION: anitsirk to adjust the help text to show the correct number + of days that certain messages are deleted. See + https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1334576 (anitsirk, 09:37:49) + +* Tobias on question plugin (anitsirk, 09:38:13) + * LINK: https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/3406/ (yuliyabozhko, + 09:42:06) + * tobiasz mplemented the question feature that was proposed by Totara + and we agreed on providing that to Mahara. It's basically ready for + testing, there are a few points still open (more sophisticated + search for questions, block type, attachments/urls and maybe logging + of editing, after the question was opened) but the basic + functionality is complete. (anitsirk, 09:42:32) + +* Next meeting and chair (anitsirk, 09:45:46) + * the 35th Developer Meeting will take place on 14 August at 8:00 UTC: + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=35th+Mahara+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140814T00 + (anitsirk, 09:56:59) + * LINK: + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=35th+Mahara+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140814T00 + (anitsirk, 09:57:02) + * robertl_ will be the chair. (anitsirk, 09:57:46) + +* Any other business (anitsirk, 09:57:55) + +Meeting ended at 09:59:43 UTC. + + + + +Action Items +------------ +* tobiasz tries to implement an automatic conversion of all reusable + text-boxes that aren't copied so far to plain ones. +* anitsirk to check if another catalyst dev can upgrade the mahara + gerrit since we are upgrading our internal one as well. +* robertl_ to write up notes of how to deal with patches that one person + started and another continued and then hands back +* anitsirk to adjust the help text to show the correct number of days + that certain messages are deleted. See + https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1334576 + + + + +Action Items, by person +----------------------- +* anitsirk + * anitsirk to check if another catalyst dev can upgrade the mahara + gerrit since we are upgrading our internal one as well. + * anitsirk to adjust the help text to show the correct number of days + that certain messages are deleted. See + https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1334576 +* robertl_ + * robertl_ to write up notes of how to deal with patches that one + person started and another continued and then hands back +* tobiasz + * tobiasz tries to implement an automatic conversion of all reusable + text-boxes that aren't copied so far to plain ones. +* **UNASSIGNED** + * (none) + + + + +People Present (lines said) +--------------------------- +* anitsirk (153) +* tobiasz (93) +* ghada (76) +* yuliyabozhko (67) +* robertl_ (22) +* aarowlaptop (9) +* nigelcunningham (8) +* rkabalin (4) +* maharameet (3) +* tonyjbutler (2) + + + + +Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 + +.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-08-14-08.05.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-08-14-08.05.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..351c0023212e8717d09730eb109cc164001600b3 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-08-14-08.05.html @@ -0,0 +1,262 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev Meeting + + + + +

#mahara-dev Meeting

+ +Meeting started by robertl_ at 08:05:28 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Meeting summary

+
    +
  1. +
      +
    1. anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, + Wellington, NZ (anitsirk, + 08:05:44)
    2. +
    3. robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, + Wellington, NZ (robertl_, + 08:05:48)
    4. +
    5. tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at KIT, + Karlsruhe, Germany (tobiasz, + 08:06:02)
    6. +
    7. son is Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington, + NZ (son, + 08:06:54)
    8. +
    9. anzeljg is Gregor Anželj, developer and + translator from Gimnazija Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia (anzeljg, + 08:07:11)
    10. +
    11. aarowlaptop is Aaron G. Wells from Catalyst IT + in Wellington, NZ (aarowlaptop, + 08:08:33)
    12. +
    +
  2. +
  3. Items from last meeting (robertl_, 08:09:26) +
      +
    1. anitsirk to check if another catalyst dev can + upgrade the mahara gerrit since we are upgrading our internal one as + well. (robertl_, + 08:09:35)
    2. +
    3. anitsirk to adjust the help text to show the + correct number of days that certain messages are deleted. + (robertl_, + 08:10:40)
    4. +
    5. robertl to write up notes of how to deal with + patches that one person started and another continued and then hands + back (robertl_, + 08:11:09)
    6. +
    7. Nigel Cunningham from Catalyst - + Melbourne (nigelc1, + 08:21:51)
    8. +
    9. ACTION: robert_ look + into the reviews permissions to see if this problem can be avoided + and/or update the wiki page with more info (robertl_, + 08:27:42)
    10. +
    11. tobiasz tries to implement an automatic + conversion of all reusable text-boxes that aren't copied so far to + plain ones. (robertl_, + 08:28:23)
    12. +
    +
  4. +
  5. Discuss the allowing of Ghada to the security review group (robertl_, 08:41:22) +
      +
    1. ACTION: robertl_ send + email to +2 reviewers to vote on Ghada to security team (robertl_, + 08:46:49)
    2. +
    3. Vote for Ghada to become member of the security + review as it’s beneficial to be able to talk to someone in a similar + timezone. She also did a great job for the last security issue and + also reviews in general. (anitsirk, + 08:47:08)
    4. +
    +
  6. +
  7. Discuss the Social profile addresses feature (robertl_, 08:47:27) +
      +
    1. IDEA: : robert was + talking about removing messaging artefacts:icq, skype, etc. the big + issue was how difficult it would be to remove the old types and + still have things like import/export still work (anitsirk, + 08:56:41)
    2. +
    3. ACTION: anzeljg to + report back on how much more work is needed to get the converting of + old types to new socialprofile types and whether import/export will + still work (robertl_, + 08:58:48)
    4. +
    +
  8. +
  9. Discuss the Question plugin (robertl_, 08:59:50) +
      +
    1. who can pick best answer? tobiasz says he + considers a right for /edit the question/, that is provided to the + author and admins, and I thought it consinstent to provide that same + right also to "pick the best answer" (anitsirk, + 09:07:57)
    2. +
    3. questions will be implemented as personal + artefacts initially and not as group artefacts. (anitsirk, + 09:14:40)
    4. +
    5. IDEA: keep things + simple for the beginning and not worry about attachments. but just + have questions, answers and comments. (anitsirk, + 09:22:34)
    6. +
    7. turning off attachments on comments would be + more difficult as comments, i.e. feedback comes with attachments + built-in and there is no switch to turn attachmens off there. + (anitsirk, + 09:23:45)
    8. +
    9. IDEA: : turn off + attachments on comments on answers in the question plugin but keep + attachments on feedback (anitsirk, + 09:27:56)
    10. +
    +
  10. +
  11. Next meeting and chair (robertl_, 09:28:55) +
      +
    1. the 36th Developer Meeting will take place on + 25th September at 8:00 UTC: + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+36th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140925T08 + (robertl_, + 09:38:30)
    2. +
    +
  12. +
  13. Any other business (robertl_, 09:39:01) +
      +
    1. IDEA: make it default + for people who have a registered account to be able to verify + things. (anitsirk, + 10:05:00)
    2. +
    3. the ui freeze is coming closer. thus, if you + have time to review patches that have already been submitted, any + help would be appreciated. (anitsirk, + 10:09:15)
    4. +
    +
  14. +
+

+ + + + +Meeting ended at 10:12:05 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Action items

+
    +
  1. robert_ look into the reviews permissions to see if this problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info
  2. +
  3. robertl_ send email to +2 reviewers to vote on Ghada to security team
  4. +
  5. anzeljg to report back on how much more work is needed to get the converting of old types to new socialprofile types and whether import/export will still work
  6. +
+

+ + + +

Action items, by person

+
    +
  1. anzeljg
      +
    1. anzeljg to report back on how much more work is needed to get the converting of old types to new socialprofile types and whether import/export will still work
    2. +
  2. +
  3. robertl_
      +
    1. robertl_ send email to +2 reviewers to vote on Ghada to security team
    2. +
  4. +
+

+ + + +

People present (lines said)

+
    +
  1. robertl_ (136)
  2. +
  3. anitsirk (95)
  4. +
  5. anzeljg (60)
  6. +
  7. tobiasz (49)
  8. +
  9. aarowlaptop (36)
  10. +
  11. son (5)
  12. +
  13. nigelc1 (5)
  14. +
  15. maharameet (3)
  16. +
  17. nigelc_ (3)
  18. +
+

+ + + +Generated by MeetBot 0.1.4. + diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-08-14-08.05.log.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-08-14-08.05.log.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..f26c072ac143b4209acdbee7c7266f436d837dec --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-08-14-08.05.log.html @@ -0,0 +1,419 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev log + + + + +
08:05:28 <robertl_> #startmeeting
+08:05:28 <maharameet> Meeting started Thu Aug 14 08:05:28 2014 UTC.  The chair is robertl_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
+08:05:28 <maharameet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
+08:05:35 <robertl_> Hello and welcome to the 35th Mahara Developer Meeting
+08:05:41 <robertl_> Please let us know who you are with fronting your intro using #info
+08:05:44 <anitsirk> #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:05:48 <robertl_> #info robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:06:02 <tobiasz> #info tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany
+08:06:54 <son> #info son is Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:07:11 <anzeljg> #info anzeljg is Gregor Anželj, developer and translator from Gimnazija Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia
+08:07:41 <robertl_> Just a note: If you have something long to say, please put .. on a line by itself once you are done to indicate the end of a long statement.
+08:07:49 <robertl_> And please feel free to use meetbot commands yourself to put something into the minutes, e.g. by using #info or #idea where appropriate / wanted
+08:07:56 <robertl_> hi aarowlaptop
+08:08:01 <aarowlaptop> Hello!
+08:08:03 <robertl_> the meeting just started
+08:08:19 <robertl_> please do your info
+08:08:33 <aarowlaptop> #info aarowlaptop is Aaron G. Wells from Catalyst IT in Wellington, NZ
+08:09:01 <robertl_> is that everybody?
+08:09:08 <anitsirk> looks like it for the moment
+08:09:23 <robertl_> ok, on with the show
+08:09:26 <robertl_> #topic Items from last meeting
+08:09:35 <robertl_> #info anitsirk to check if another catalyst dev can upgrade the mahara gerrit since we are upgrading our internal one as well.
+08:09:49 <robertl_> is anything happened with that?
+08:10:01 <anitsirk> still needs to be done. awaiting a reply
+08:10:22 <anitsirk> only just followed up on that due to travels.
+08:10:32 <robertl_> ok then, onto next item
+08:10:40 <robertl_> #info anitsirk to adjust the help text to show the correct number of days that certain messages are deleted.
+08:10:50 <anitsirk> i’ll do that as part of the general lang string review for the next release
+08:11:02 <robertl_> ok cool - this is going nice and fast
+08:11:09 <robertl_> #info robertl to write up notes of how to deal with patches that one person started and another continued and then hands back
+08:11:16 <robertl_> I added some notes here: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Pushing_Git_Commits#Problems_with_pushing_patches_to_gerrit
+08:11:39 <robertl_> so feel free to expand on them if there are other use-cases
+08:11:47 <robertl_> where pushing commits fails
+08:12:30 <anitsirk> robertl_: but changing the author, doesn’t that mean that the author is cahnged for the entire patch? i.e. if someone did most of the work but the final corrector only did a small thing, is the second one then listed as author?
+08:13:17 <son> Can we add multiple authors in one patch?
+08:13:22 <anitsirk> or is that second person only added as additional author?
+08:13:26 <aarowlaptop> no, git commits can only have one author
+08:13:42 <robertl_> usually this occurs when one of us +2 people tweak a patch and then original writer can't push it
+08:13:52 <robertl_> when they make changes
+08:13:56 <aarowlaptop> In most projects the "Signed off by" represents additional people who've worked on the project
+08:14:06 <aarowlaptop> I mean, commit
+08:15:22 <anitsirk> robertl_: so when you +2 people tweak a patch, you aren’t changing the author line, right?
+08:16:17 <robertl_> hmm, maybe it happens when a non +2 wants to tweak one of our patches
+08:16:38 * robertl_ doesn't see this error as he has +2 permissions
+08:16:57 <robertl_> but changing the author has worked for others
+08:17:32 <robertl_> as I say - feel free to adjust the info there if it is not correct
+08:17:41 <anitsirk> it just might not reflect the correct authorship properly.
+08:17:55 <anitsirk> but i have no idea whether there is something that should be done differently.
+08:18:02 <anitsirk> did someone ask the gerrit people?
+08:19:18 <tobiasz> I think it happened to me, when I tried to submit to my own patch after one of the +2-authors had committed something, so it looks like the +2-authors change the author, otherwise the explicit author-tag wouldn't help, right?
+08:19:23 <robertl_> I took the info from here: http://review.cyanogenmod.org/Documentation/error-invalid-author.html
+08:19:49 <son> Hi nigelcl
+08:20:36 <nigelc1> Hi all. What am I supposed to say for the bot?
+08:21:13 <robertl_> which looks to be the manual pages of gerrit in web form
+08:21:29 <robertl_> you need to go #info  and state who you are
+08:21:40 <nigelc1> Ah. Thanks.
+08:21:51 <nigelc1> #info Nigel Cunningham from Catalyst - Melbourne
+08:22:36 <aarowlaptop> The advice on the wiki page looks correct to me
+08:22:37 <anitsirk> robertl_: or would it rather have to be: “If pushing to Gerrit fails with the error message "invalid author" and somebody else is author of the commit for which the push fails, then you have no permissions to forge the author identity. In this case you may contact the project owner to request the access right +1 Forge Author Identity in the Forge Identity category or ask the maintainer to commit this change on the author’s behalf.”
+08:23:43 <anitsirk> it seems to me that changing the author on a commit where the original author should have stayed the same wouldn’t be the best solution as we’d alter who’s done most of the work. maybe it’s rather a permissions thing that can be set in gerrit as the above info suggests if i’m reading it correctly.
+08:24:59 <robertl_> it's worth looking into - if it's just a perms change then that would be good
+08:25:33 <aarowlaptop> I guess we could add on an instruction telling people that they can request a core dev to change the author if need be
+08:26:04 <robertl_> #action look into the reviews permissions to see if this problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info
+08:26:35 <robertl_> I'll look some more into that
+08:26:41 <anitsirk> thanks
+08:26:52 <anitsirk> robertl_: can you please set that action for yourself?
+08:26:56 <anitsirk> you may want to #undo
+08:26:57 <tobiasz> tough it might be interesting to see, if a +2-committer automatically changes the author, for anitsirks concern
+08:27:16 <anitsirk> the last item from the agenda and redo it with your name in it ;-)
+08:27:27 <robertl_> #undo look into the reviews permissions to see if this problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info
+08:27:27 <maharameet> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x12bb7d0>
+08:27:42 <robertl_> #action robert_ look into the reviews permissions to see if this problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info
+08:27:51 <robertl_> like that you mean?
+08:27:54 <anitsirk> yep
+08:28:07 <robertl_> cool
+08:28:21 <robertl_> ok next item
+08:28:22 <anitsirk> that way the minutes know who is the person for the action :-)
+08:28:23 <robertl_> #info tobiasz tries to implement an automatic conversion of all reusable text-boxes that aren't copied so far to plain ones.
+08:28:37 <robertl_> tobiasz, how is this coming along?
+08:29:12 <tobiasz> I've uploaded a patch that lets you convert all text boxes into simple text boxes from the configuration of the block type
+08:29:43 <anitsirk> tobiasz: sorry, haven’t had time to look at it. does it convert all of them or just the ones that haven’t been used multiple times?
+08:29:46 <tobiasz> That is, all that don't have any special features, like license, attachments or reuse
+08:29:47 <robertl_> what types of restrictions are in place - o can you convert any
+08:29:56 <anitsirk> thanks for the quick answer :-)
+08:29:56 <robertl_> ah ok
+08:30:29 <robertl_> is it  one time deal or can you go back an forth?
+08:30:56 <robertl_> and is it per textbox block ? or site wide?
+08:31:04 <tobiasz> it's a one time deal, so far
+08:31:28 <tobiasz> and it's site wide, all text boxes, that match the criteria
+08:31:59 <robertl_> cool - sounds easy enough to test
+08:32:08 <robertl_> will try and get to that asap
+08:32:34 <tobiasz> I thought about listing the text boxes and let the admin untick single blocks, but I can't imagine that being practical unless all the users stand behind the admin, when he's doing that
+08:32:51 <anitsirk> tobiasz: i agree and wouldn’t think it would be practical.
+08:33:26 <robertl_> anyone else have more questions on the items from last meeting?
+08:33:30 <anitsirk> they’d have to look at every single scrap of word. even a small portfolio can easily have 50 text boxes esp. if you copy templates. just multiply that...
+08:34:17 <tobiasz> do you think that is sufficient so far, or do the simple text boxes need an option to be converted (only that single one) into a reusable text box?
+08:34:33 <robertl_> textbox would definitely be one of the most used blocks
+08:35:06 <robertl_> ok we good to move on?
+08:35:41 <tobiasz> also, the simple text box is now called "text" and robertl_ submitted a patch to rename the old text boxes to "note"
+08:36:08 <robertl_> yep I felt just changing the text strings would be fine for that
+08:36:14 <anitsirk> tobiasz: i think we said to keep it simple for the beginning.
+08:36:20 <robertl_> like we did with blog to journal
+08:36:29 <anitsirk> and thus not do any text to note conversion.
+08:36:57 <anitsirk> yep. we talked about the strings on monday and thus “text” and “note” :-)
+08:37:18 <robertl_> is the conversion bit part of the 'extensions' admin section?
+08:37:21 <anitsirk> but for the plugin name: would there be any confusion?
+08:37:28 <anitsirk> what does it currently say?
+08:38:02 <tobiasz> anitsirk: I've had a look at the patch, every string that appears to the user, is changed into "text"
+08:38:04 <robertl_> my patch changes the title of the plugin from textbox to note
+08:38:14 <tobiasz> sorry, "note" of course
+08:38:42 <robertl_> so even in the extensions -> plugin list in admin it says 'note'
+08:38:55 <anitsirk> just had a look at the extensions page and i think the current textbox is just “html”. there is no mention of “textbox"
+08:39:08 <anitsirk> robertl_: ah. that’s good
+08:39:15 <tobiasz> robert: exactly, the option is /hidden/ in the configuration from the extension page
+08:40:17 <robertl_> there is a file/html but that is different to internal/textbox
+08:40:40 <robertl_> it will be the internal/textbox that becomes internal/note
+08:41:10 <anitsirk> sorry. was looking under artefact and not blocktype. you are right, robertl_
+08:41:20 <robertl_> ok moving forward
+08:41:22 <robertl_> #topic Discuss the allowing of Ghada to the security review group
+08:41:51 <robertl_> when I had to get out the recent update I found Ghada a big help
+08:42:09 <robertl_> and so was wondering if she should be part of the security group
+08:42:16 <robertl_> what do others think?
+08:42:36 <anitsirk> +1
+08:42:46 <anitsirk> (but I can’t really vote ;-) )
+08:43:03 <tobiasz> I think she did a great reviewers job on the new user message system, +1
+08:43:16 <robertl_> I found it useful having another member in a similar timezone when wgtn folks were on holiday/sick
+08:43:33 <robertl_> son:  what do you think?
+08:43:44 <robertl_> +1 form me also
+08:44:36 <anzeljg> +1 (I also can't vote)
+08:45:04 <son> +1
+08:45:35 <robertl_> anitsirk, do you know how many counting votes do we need?
+08:45:58 <anitsirk> robertl_: there are not enough voting members here to make a decision. i suggest we send an email to all +2 reviewers and vote via email
+08:46:13 <robertl_> that sounds a plan
+08:46:14 <anitsirk> there’s basically robertl_ and son only here who can vote.
+08:46:40 <tobiasz> isn't anzeljg a +2 reviewer?
+08:46:45 <anzeljg> nope
+08:46:49 <robertl_> #action robertl_ send email to +2 reviewers to vote on Ghada to security team
+08:47:08 <robertl_> ok next item
+08:47:08 <anitsirk> #info Vote for Ghada to become member of the security review as it’s beneficial to be able to talk to someone in a similar timezone. She also did a great job for the last security issue and also reviews in general.
+08:47:25 <robertl_> ta anitsirk
+08:47:27 <robertl_> #topic Discuss the Social profile addresses feature
+08:47:42 <anzeljg> I just wanted to discuss further Robert's comment on this feature at https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2936/
+08:47:44 <robertl_> anzeljg, I believe that is your one
+08:47:55 <anzeljg> The comment was: "It would be good to also transform the existing message types into the 'socialprofile' type - that way we could get rid of a bunch of obsolete options (and code associated with them)."
+08:48:02 <anzeljg> What do others think?
+08:48:05 <anzeljg> ..
+08:48:41 <anzeljg> robert was talking about removing messaging artefacts:icq, skype, etc. Right?
+08:49:03 <robertl_> it was discussed at mahara hq and if I remember right we were for converting the old style to new style
+08:49:18 <anitsirk> agree. would be good to be more consistent esp. since many will probably not have used those “ancient” messaging types. we’d have to convert them though as some people might have repurposed them for other messaging types by just changing the lang strings.
+08:49:18 <anzeljg> oh I see...
+08:49:43 <robertl_> the big issue was how difficult it would be
+08:49:57 <anzeljg> what do you mean?
+08:50:15 <robertl_> to remove the old types and still have things like import/export still work
+08:50:25 <tobiasz> robertl_: "new style" means, user defined field names? Or side-wide defined?
+08:50:53 <tobiasz> *"site wide" instead of side-wide
+08:50:54 <robertl_> fields defined as artefacttype socialprofile
+08:51:35 <robertl_> the current patch, if i'm right, allows one to add label/value pairs
+08:51:44 <anzeljg> tobiasz: they are user defined descriptions, but in the case of the upgrade I think the descriptions would (initially) have to be set from existing lang strings
+08:51:48 <robertl_> and they are all stored as the same artefacttype
+08:52:15 <tobiasz> ok, thanks. That sounds good to me
+08:52:16 <robertl_> is that right anzeljg
+08:52:18 <robertl_> ?
+08:52:33 <anzeljg> what robert_?
+08:52:44 <anzeljg> they are label/value
+08:53:14 <anzeljg> and the labels in the upgrade process will be set from existing lang strings for icq, skype etc.
+08:54:24 <robertl_> there was talk about the removal of a bunch of php code relating to the old types
+08:55:02 <robertl_> that is part of the 'still to do' stuff
+08:55:02 <anzeljg> yes as a result from converting the old artefacttypes to new ones right?
+08:55:12 <robertl_> yep
+08:55:59 <robertl_> anzeljg, any idea how much more work is needed to get that in and all merge ready?
+08:56:16 <robertl_> a little, a lot?
+08:56:31 <anzeljg> I thnik that import/export should work, but it has to be tested.
+08:56:41 <anitsirk> #idea: robert was talking about removing messaging artefacts:icq, skype, etc. the big issue was how difficult it would be to remove the old types and still have things like import/export still work
+08:57:13 <anzeljg> if it works, then I guess it is not a lot of work
+08:57:37 <anzeljg> I can try that locally and report back
+08:57:48 <robertl_> ok cool
+08:58:33 <aarowlaptop> Whoops, I was disconnected for a while there
+08:58:48 <robertl_> #action anzeljg to report back on how much more work is needed to get the converting of old types to new socialprofile types and whether import/export will still work
+08:59:20 <anzeljg> will do :)
+08:59:43 <robertl_> ok, moving on to the next one
+08:59:50 <robertl_> #topic Discuss the Question plugin
+09:00:01 <robertl_> tobiasz, this is your plugin
+09:00:40 <tobiasz> well, it was based on the paper from the totara social plan
+09:01:33 <tobiasz> I think, most of the basic functionality is there, I wanted to add a better search/filter for questions and a block type
+09:01:40 <robertl_> I was a little confused about when questions should be editable and when they shouldn't
+09:02:14 <robertl_> as I was worried one could change the question after people had answered
+09:02:27 <tobiasz> yep, the way I thought it was, that "open" means "open for answers", but I noticed that this caused a little confusion
+09:02:36 <robertl_> and so could totally change the relevance of their answers
+09:03:05 <tobiasz> actually, I thought so initially, but I agree that this was a bad idea
+09:03:25 <tobiasz> ... changing the question text after someone has already answered
+09:03:35 <anitsirk> #info most of the basic functionality is there, tobiasz wanted to add a better search/filter for questions and a block type
+09:04:42 <robertl_> also should all admins be allowed to pick best answer or should it only be the question creator?
+09:05:25 <anitsirk> what about staff? wouldn’t they sometimes be better suited than admins?
+09:05:53 <tobiasz> so far, I consider a right for /edit the question/, that is provided to the author and admins, and I thought it consinstent to provide that same right also to "pick the best answer"
+09:06:33 <aarowlaptop> Makes sense that a question author should be able to pick which answer they think is best
+09:07:13 <tobiasz> I think, on a code level, admin checks "admin for this user", so that might include staff, but I'm not sure
+09:07:22 <tobiasz> I'll have a closer look on that
+09:07:57 <anitsirk> #info who can pick best answer? tobiasz says he considers a right for /edit the question/, that is provided to the author and admins, and I thought it consinstent to provide that same right also to "pick the best answer"
+09:08:41 <tobiasz> aarowlaptop: yep, the author should always have the right to pick the best answer. What we were unclear about was, if the admin also should have that right
+09:09:11 <anitsirk> tobiasz: thanks. we need to keep in mind that admins are often that: admins and not really involved in the day to day content use of the application. thus, the next best thing would be staff if you want to give some people more privileges and not just anyone
+09:09:55 <aarowlaptop> Ah, I see. Well usually, only artefact owners/authors are allowed to edit their artefacts. So it should probably be the same for questions
+09:10:03 <aarowlaptop> if they are a type of artefact
+09:10:37 <tobiasz> they are artefacts. Ok, makes sense to me
+09:11:13 <robertl_> Another thing I noticed was questions can have comments added to them as well as answers , and that answers can also have comments - my query was should those comments be allowed to have attachements?
+09:11:16 <tobiasz> so, maybe additional staff get's the right with an option?
+09:11:44 <anitsirk> what do you mean “with an option"?
+09:12:04 <anzeljg> that the author/owner has the option to allow staff the right
+09:12:18 <aarowlaptop> I think the only situation where it would make sense for multiple people to be able to edit or administer a question, would be if questions can be created as group artefacts
+09:12:55 <aarowlaptop> ... and/or maybe also if questions can be created as site-level or institution-level artefacts?
+09:13:16 <anitsirk> i would normally only give the right to choose the best answer, but not to alter the question (unless it’s a question in a group and then the same rules could apply that apply to pages: decide who can edit)
+09:13:24 <tobiasz> ok, they don't work as group artefacts so far, so I'll skip those additional rights for the moment
+09:13:54 <anzeljg> that's what i thought: that the author/owner has the option to give staff the right to choose the best answer (not to edit the question)
+09:14:20 <robertl_> we can alway get it working for the individual first before tackling groups/insititutions
+09:14:40 <anitsirk> #info questions will be implemented as personal artefacts initially and not as group artefacts.
+09:14:42 <aarowlaptop> Yes
+09:14:47 <tobiasz> ok
+09:15:57 <aarowlaptop> I'd rather avoid having the option, on a personal question artefact, to give partial control of it to other users. We don't have any other personal artefacts that act that way, and I think it could open up a lot of complexities.
+09:17:13 <tobiasz> about the comments: in general I imagine it to be usefull to add files in comments, though it's not a must-have from my point of view
+09:18:17 <robertl_> I just wonder that with questions/answers/likes/comments all being part of this that it could get a little messy/confusing
+09:18:44 <robertl_> if one can do comment attachments also
+09:18:59 <robertl_> but if others are fine with it I'll not fight it :)
+09:19:00 <aarowlaptop> agreed
+09:19:08 <aarowlaptop> hm
+09:19:21 <aarowlaptop> Well, on the one hand it's nice to be consistent
+09:19:28 <robertl_> true
+09:19:57 <aarowlaptop> I can see how people might do a question like "Attach a word document with ... in it"
+09:20:14 <aarowlaptop> Oh, but it's the comments that have attachments, not the answers, huh?
+09:20:23 <robertl_> yep, the comments
+09:20:32 <aarowlaptop> I guess I could go either way on this one. :-\
+09:21:01 * robertl_ thinking of stackoverflow - where there are questions / answers / comments
+09:21:04 <tobiasz> hmm, good point. Attachments on answers would make more sense
+09:21:09 <robertl_> but no attachments
+09:21:42 <aarowlaptop> right
+09:22:04 <anzeljg> robertl_: agree, we can always complicate things later :)
+09:22:34 <anitsirk> #idea keep things simple for the beginning and not worry about attachments. but just have questions, answers and comments.
+09:22:49 <robertl_> the problem here is comments have attachments built in - so the complication would be to not have them :)
+09:22:51 <tobiasz> about the complication: Does anybody know if there's a switch to turn off attachments for comments? I found the comment code in general rather difficult to adjust
+09:23:07 <robertl_> I looked, there isn't
+09:23:20 <robertl_> it's an all or nothing deal at the moment
+09:23:39 <tobiasz> maybe I can just hide them on CSS?
+09:23:45 <anitsirk> #info turning off attachments on comments would be more difficult as comments, i.e. feedback comes with attachments built-in and there is no switch to turn attachmens off there.
+09:23:53 <robertl_> but that switch should be added - as a institution setting
+09:24:07 <robertl_> or site setting
+09:24:11 <robertl_> I believe
+09:24:45 <robertl_> even if it's not for this change in particular
+09:24:48 <anitsirk> i quite like the attachments as they allow for richer feedback than just text
+09:25:08 <anitsirk> like audio commentary or even a video if you so wanted. we want to promote the use of multimedia in a portfolio and not just text...
+09:25:31 <anitsirk> maybe it would be better to keep attachments on regular feedback, but not allow attachments on comments.
+09:26:01 <robertl_> have some demarkation of where to have attachments and where not to
+09:26:11 <robertl_> that sounds ok
+09:26:57 <tobiasz> anitsirk: I don't think, robertl_ wanted to turn off attachments on feedback in general, just add a switch to deactivate them on comments on the answers in the question plugin (and other artefacts)
+09:27:26 <robertl_> yeah - that's the idea I've come round to
+09:27:56 <anitsirk> #idea: turn off attachments on comments on answers in the question plugin but keep attachments on feedback
+09:28:35 <robertl_> ok any more questions about the Question plugin?
+09:28:43 <anitsirk> nope. not at the moment.
+09:28:53 <robertl_> right then
+09:28:55 <robertl_> #topic Next meeting and chair
+09:29:32 <robertl_> so who would like to volunteer to be the chair?
+09:30:19 <anitsirk> i can do it
+09:30:20 <robertl_> anyone?
+09:30:24 <robertl_> thank anitsirk
+09:30:25 <tobiasz> maybe fix the date first?
+09:30:30 <anitsirk> ;-)
+09:30:41 <robertl_> ah true that might help
+09:31:00 <anzeljg> anitsirk was too fast for all of us ;)
+09:31:10 <anitsirk> i waited a whole minute ;-)
+09:31:17 <anzeljg> indeed... :)
+09:31:28 <anitsirk> wanted to put robertl_ out of his misery
+09:31:57 <anzeljg> wow, commendable :)
+09:32:19 <robertl_> I haven't been that bad have I?
+09:32:28 <anzeljg> not at all!
+09:32:37 <anitsirk> nah. just meant the misery of having to find a volunteer
+09:33:38 <anzeljg> what about the last week of September?
+09:34:08 <nigelc1> Sorry guys - keep dropping out tonight. Not that I'd have much to say anyway :)
+09:34:08 <anitsirk> week of 22nd?
+09:34:37 <anzeljg> yep
+09:34:38 <tobiasz> week of 22nd sounds good to me
+09:34:42 <robertl_> that will just be before the release of 1.10
+09:34:43 <anitsirk> that would work
+09:34:52 <robertl_> so we'll have something to discus right there
+09:35:08 <robertl_> week of 22nd sounds fine to me
+09:35:23 <robertl_> which actual day/night though?
+09:35:23 <anitsirk> shall we say thursday again to stay consistent?
+09:35:37 <robertl_> that's ok with me
+09:35:56 <aarowlaptop> me too
+09:36:02 <tobiasz> me too
+09:36:26 <anzeljg> ok
+09:36:34 <nigelc1> Thursdays good here too.
+09:36:36 <anitsirk> waht about http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+36th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140925T08
+09:36:42 <anitsirk> 25th of September at 8 UTC?
+09:36:56 <anzeljg> that would work
+09:37:23 <robertl_> cool by me
+09:37:33 <son> good to me
+09:37:49 <tobiasz> fine with me
+09:38:30 <robertl_> #info the 36th Developer Meeting will take place on 25th September at 8:00 UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+36th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140925T08
+09:38:59 <robertl_> ok so that leaves
+09:39:01 <robertl_> #topic Any other business
+09:39:06 <anzeljg> i have one
+09:39:09 <tobiasz> I have a small question
+09:39:13 <tobiasz> after you, anzeljg
+09:39:26 <anzeljg> waiting for others...
+09:39:26 <anitsirk> i also have a small one
+09:39:44 <anitsirk> go ahead, anzeljg
+09:40:00 <anzeljg> I'm planning to rewrite Survey plugin in a way that it will be possible to generate surveys using forms inside Mahara (e.g. in Administration) instead of using XML. So also forms could be generated - this can maybe also be an answer to https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1317447
+09:40:07 <anzeljg> But I have some trouble how to calculate results from surveys or rather how can Mahara users "tell" or "instruct" Mahara to calculate results. I mean it is easy to e.g. find maximum/minimum/average value from all the numerical answers/options, but it is something completely different when you have more than one category of answers in the survey and when some answers count in a positive way/direction and the other answers in a nega
+09:40:16 <anzeljg> I would be very greteful for any ideas how to achieve this. BTW: in current Survey plugin solution this (the results calculation) had to be hard-coded by a programer, so I'm looking for a "simple" (if possible) soultion to allow regular users to achieve/"code" this...
+09:40:17 <anzeljg> ..
+09:40:52 <anzeljg> "grateful" not greteful :)
+09:41:14 <anitsirk> that’s the secret sauce of survey software :-)
+09:41:20 <aarowlaptop> Does Moodle have a survey plugin?
+09:41:28 <anzeljg> anitsirk: I know
+09:41:32 <anitsirk> it has a feedback plugin that does some basic calculations
+09:41:33 <aarowlaptop> You could look at how they do it
+09:41:40 <anzeljg> aarowlaptop: it does, thanks!
+09:41:42 <anitsirk> what sort of calculations were you thinking of, anzeljg ?
+09:42:13 <anitsirk> if at all, i would only do the very basics because for anything complicated, people will want to export it to a more sophisticated program to do their analysis in.
+09:42:43 <anzeljg> I have a survey which has three categories (since it measures three things), then it also has some control questions and results are calculated based on regular and control questions...
+09:42:58 <robertl_> we could also take a look at how the current survey plugin does it's calculations to see if/how it could be made more generic/flexible
+09:42:59 <aarowlaptop> What sort of answer fields does the survey plugin support?
+09:43:12 <anzeljg> regular questions increase score, control questions decrease score
+09:43:37 <aarowlaptop> It's real easy to get real complicated with these sorts of things. Take a look at the Mahara quiz question interface, for instance. ;)
+09:44:03 <anzeljg> aarowtop: currently: text, textarea, dropdown, checkboxes, radiobuttons - standart set I guess
+09:44:03 <anitsirk> aarowlaptop: mahara or moodle?
+09:44:11 <aarowlaptop> Oh, Moodle
+09:44:20 <aarowlaptop> Mm hm
+09:44:42 <aarowlaptop> I mean, for things with a fixed number of answers (dropdown, checkbox, radio button) it seems like you could just have a bar graph
+09:45:00 <aarowlaptop> but then I don't have much domain knowledge of surveys
+09:45:26 <anzeljg> aarowtop: I know, but I also have to calculate the result either as a number or as a prcent
+09:46:00 <anitsirk> anzeljg: what if you only went with the most basic analysis? calculations according to regular and control questions seems already pretty complicated.
+09:46:06 <aarowlaptop> (I'm looking up what a control question is now...)
+09:46:12 <anitsirk> moodle only does very simple analysis in the feedback module iirc
+09:46:54 <anzeljg> I don't know exactly how they are called in English - they can be control questions or inverse questions or...
+09:46:59 <anitsirk> the quiz module is of course a whole different kettle of fish
+09:47:33 <anzeljg> thanks guys. I'll try to work something out... Please let me know if you have any idea, ok?
+09:47:40 <aarowlaptop> Hm, so is a "control question" one that you include so you can tell if they're just answering the questions randomly?
+09:48:00 <aarowlaptop> And if they give the "wrong" answer to the control question, you disregard their answers?
+09:48:07 <anzeljg> aarowtop: As far as I know yes
+09:48:46 <anzeljg> No it doesn't work like that - you don't completely disregard their answers
+09:49:00 <anzeljg> it just shows in their results...
+09:49:35 <tobiasz> but due to the different wording, the control-questions answer might differ slightly, if you use weights, for example. I think that gets difficult pretty fast
+09:50:01 <anzeljg> agree
+09:50:57 <anzeljg> that's why it's easier to create survey with XML (and optional logic programmed in the back), and not let users create their own... :(
+09:51:25 <anitsirk> anzeljg: but what if you keep out the analysis and let other software take care of that? would that work?
+09:52:10 <anzeljg> As I see it: user "solves" the survey and gets instant feedback
+09:52:13 <anitsirk> haven’t used R, but I remember that we could import questionnaire data into SPSS and then assign weighting etc.
+09:52:37 <anzeljg> even the simplest surveys I've came around (and are already implemented in XML) have control questions and stuff like that
+09:54:21 <anzeljg> It's is also nice that users can graphically present the results of simple questionnaire/survey on their Mahara page (remember MyLearning plugin?)
+09:55:21 <anitsirk> did you have different weightings in the mylearning plugin?
+09:55:37 <anzeljg> no - meant the graphical presentation
+09:56:37 <anzeljg> it just came to my mind - i might do something in between: allow users to create simple forms/surveys with forms and support complex ones (programmatically in the back)
+09:58:06 <robertl_> so have some preset surveys as well as ability to create a survey
+09:58:12 <robertl_> ?
+09:58:20 <anzeljg> yep. like the hybrid approach
+09:58:30 <anitsirk> mabye it’s two different plugins then just so that it’s easier to keep things apart esp if you use different infrastructure
+09:58:50 <anzeljg> that's good too
+09:59:34 <anitsirk> just so that things aren’t overcomplicated
+09:59:58 <anzeljg> so like: survey plugin (like it is now, with XML and stuff) and forms plugin to allow users to create simple forms/surveys
+10:01:12 <anzeljg> thanks guys!
+10:01:16 <anzeljg> that's all from me
+10:01:45 <tobiasz> ok, so here's my question: I remember aarowlaptop saying on the workshop in Brighton that from +1-reviewers, a Verified-note would be helpfull - but I can't see how to put that. Is that a permission-issue or did I just miss the box?
+10:02:13 <anitsirk> tobiasz: do you only see the code reviewer column or also the verified column?
+10:02:23 <anitsirk> i mean when you give your review?
+10:02:33 <anitsirk> probably not really a column but radio buttons
+10:02:48 <tobiasz> In the list of reviewers, I see the "Verified" and the "Code-Review" column
+10:03:07 <anitsirk> i think you’d need to be in the “tester” group to be able to “Verify”
+10:03:38 <anitsirk> and what do you see when you click the “Review” button? Do you only have one area, “code review” or also “verify” with the +1, no score, fail?
+10:03:46 <tobiasz> But when I publish a review, I only see the "Code-Review" section
+10:04:00 <anitsirk> yep. you aren’t in the proper group. i think it is the tester group.
+10:04:18 <anitsirk> aarowlaptop: could you please add tobiasz into the group that i’m / cattester, i.e. stephen is in?
+10:04:29 <anitsirk> i shouldn’t be in any other special group and i see both.
+10:04:40 <aarowlaptop> sure
+10:05:00 <anitsirk> #idea make it default for people who have a registered account to be able to verify things.
+10:05:09 <anitsirk> usually, you probably start out with verification and not code review
+10:05:10 <aarowlaptop> done
+10:05:23 <anitsirk> aarowlaptop: ^
+10:05:26 <tobiasz> ok, thanks. Just what I wanted to ask, anitsirk ^^
+10:06:10 <anitsirk> as i see it, anyone can do the verification because we use that as front end QA / testing. whereas code review should really only be for those looking into the code.
+10:06:33 <tobiasz> (and thanks for adding me to the group, the Verified-part appears now)
+10:06:42 <anitsirk> easy fix :-)
+10:08:03 <anitsirk> did you have anything else, tobiasz ?
+10:08:29 <tobiasz> no, that's it, thanks
+10:09:15 <anitsirk> #info the ui freeze is coming closer. thus, if you have time to review patches that have already been submitted, any help would be appreciated.
+10:09:49 <anitsirk> that’s it from me.
+10:09:52 <nigelc_> I'm working on a different project for a client at the mo, but will just focus on testing when I come back, if you want.
+10:09:57 <robertl_> anyone else?
+10:10:27 <anitsirk> thanks, nigelc. let us know when you’d have time again, and we can prioritize what to look at for you.
+10:10:47 <nigelc_> Was going to focus on CSV import/exports, but that can wait till after I guess.
+10:10:51 <nigelc_> That would be good.
+10:11:52 <robertl_> ok, if no one else has anything I'l  call this meeting closed
+10:11:55 <robertl_> Thank you all very much for attending and discussing in today's dev meeting.
+10:12:03 <anitsirk> thank you for chairing, robertl_
+10:12:05 <robertl_> #endmeeting
+ diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-08-14-08.05.log.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-08-14-08.05.log.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..c187b3693fcef5ba748407d1324a6c093c80e089 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-08-14-08.05.log.txt @@ -0,0 +1,392 @@ +08:05:28 #startmeeting +08:05:28 Meeting started Thu Aug 14 08:05:28 2014 UTC. The chair is robertl_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. +08:05:28 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. +08:05:35 Hello and welcome to the 35th Mahara Developer Meeting +08:05:41 Please let us know who you are with fronting your intro using #info +08:05:44 #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:05:48 #info robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:06:02 #info tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany +08:06:54 #info son is Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:07:11 #info anzeljg is Gregor Anželj, developer and translator from Gimnazija Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia +08:07:41 Just a note: If you have something long to say, please put .. on a line by itself once you are done to indicate the end of a long statement. +08:07:49 And please feel free to use meetbot commands yourself to put something into the minutes, e.g. by using #info or #idea where appropriate / wanted +08:07:56 hi aarowlaptop +08:08:01 Hello! +08:08:03 the meeting just started +08:08:19 please do your info +08:08:33 #info aarowlaptop is Aaron G. Wells from Catalyst IT in Wellington, NZ +08:09:01 is that everybody? +08:09:08 looks like it for the moment +08:09:23 ok, on with the show +08:09:26 #topic Items from last meeting +08:09:35 #info anitsirk to check if another catalyst dev can upgrade the mahara gerrit since we are upgrading our internal one as well. +08:09:49 is anything happened with that? +08:10:01 still needs to be done. awaiting a reply +08:10:22 only just followed up on that due to travels. +08:10:32 ok then, onto next item +08:10:40 #info anitsirk to adjust the help text to show the correct number of days that certain messages are deleted. +08:10:50 i’ll do that as part of the general lang string review for the next release +08:11:02 ok cool - this is going nice and fast +08:11:09 #info robertl to write up notes of how to deal with patches that one person started and another continued and then hands back +08:11:16 I added some notes here: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Pushing_Git_Commits#Problems_with_pushing_patches_to_gerrit +08:11:39 so feel free to expand on them if there are other use-cases +08:11:47 where pushing commits fails +08:12:30 robertl_: but changing the author, doesn’t that mean that the author is cahnged for the entire patch? i.e. if someone did most of the work but the final corrector only did a small thing, is the second one then listed as author? +08:13:17 Can we add multiple authors in one patch? +08:13:22 or is that second person only added as additional author? +08:13:26 no, git commits can only have one author +08:13:42 usually this occurs when one of us +2 people tweak a patch and then original writer can't push it +08:13:52 when they make changes +08:13:56 In most projects the "Signed off by" represents additional people who've worked on the project +08:14:06 I mean, commit +08:15:22 robertl_: so when you +2 people tweak a patch, you aren’t changing the author line, right? +08:16:17 hmm, maybe it happens when a non +2 wants to tweak one of our patches +08:16:38 * robertl_ doesn't see this error as he has +2 permissions +08:16:57 but changing the author has worked for others +08:17:32 as I say - feel free to adjust the info there if it is not correct +08:17:41 it just might not reflect the correct authorship properly. +08:17:55 but i have no idea whether there is something that should be done differently. +08:18:02 did someone ask the gerrit people? +08:19:18 I think it happened to me, when I tried to submit to my own patch after one of the +2-authors had committed something, so it looks like the +2-authors change the author, otherwise the explicit author-tag wouldn't help, right? +08:19:23 I took the info from here: http://review.cyanogenmod.org/Documentation/error-invalid-author.html +08:19:49 Hi nigelcl +08:20:36 Hi all. What am I supposed to say for the bot? +08:21:13 which looks to be the manual pages of gerrit in web form +08:21:29 you need to go #info and state who you are +08:21:40 Ah. Thanks. +08:21:51 #info Nigel Cunningham from Catalyst - Melbourne +08:22:36 The advice on the wiki page looks correct to me +08:22:37 robertl_: or would it rather have to be: “If pushing to Gerrit fails with the error message "invalid author" and somebody else is author of the commit for which the push fails, then you have no permissions to forge the author identity. In this case you may contact the project owner to request the access right +1 Forge Author Identity in the Forge Identity category or ask the maintainer to commit this change on the author’s behalf.” +08:23:43 it seems to me that changing the author on a commit where the original author should have stayed the same wouldn’t be the best solution as we’d alter who’s done most of the work. maybe it’s rather a permissions thing that can be set in gerrit as the above info suggests if i’m reading it correctly. +08:24:59 it's worth looking into - if it's just a perms change then that would be good +08:25:33 I guess we could add on an instruction telling people that they can request a core dev to change the author if need be +08:26:04 #action look into the reviews permissions to see if this problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info +08:26:35 I'll look some more into that +08:26:41 thanks +08:26:52 robertl_: can you please set that action for yourself? +08:26:56 you may want to #undo +08:26:57 tough it might be interesting to see, if a +2-committer automatically changes the author, for anitsirks concern +08:27:16 the last item from the agenda and redo it with your name in it ;-) +08:27:27 #undo look into the reviews permissions to see if this problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info +08:27:27 Removing item from minutes: +08:27:42 #action robert_ look into the reviews permissions to see if this problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info +08:27:51 like that you mean? +08:27:54 yep +08:28:07 cool +08:28:21 ok next item +08:28:22 that way the minutes know who is the person for the action :-) +08:28:23 #info tobiasz tries to implement an automatic conversion of all reusable text-boxes that aren't copied so far to plain ones. +08:28:37 tobiasz, how is this coming along? +08:29:12 I've uploaded a patch that lets you convert all text boxes into simple text boxes from the configuration of the block type +08:29:43 tobiasz: sorry, haven’t had time to look at it. does it convert all of them or just the ones that haven’t been used multiple times? +08:29:46 That is, all that don't have any special features, like license, attachments or reuse +08:29:47 what types of restrictions are in place - o can you convert any +08:29:56 thanks for the quick answer :-) +08:29:56 ah ok +08:30:29 is it one time deal or can you go back an forth? +08:30:56 and is it per textbox block ? or site wide? +08:31:04 it's a one time deal, so far +08:31:28 and it's site wide, all text boxes, that match the criteria +08:31:59 cool - sounds easy enough to test +08:32:08 will try and get to that asap +08:32:34 I thought about listing the text boxes and let the admin untick single blocks, but I can't imagine that being practical unless all the users stand behind the admin, when he's doing that +08:32:51 tobiasz: i agree and wouldn’t think it would be practical. +08:33:26 anyone else have more questions on the items from last meeting? +08:33:30 they’d have to look at every single scrap of word. even a small portfolio can easily have 50 text boxes esp. if you copy templates. just multiply that... +08:34:17 do you think that is sufficient so far, or do the simple text boxes need an option to be converted (only that single one) into a reusable text box? +08:34:33 textbox would definitely be one of the most used blocks +08:35:06 ok we good to move on? +08:35:41 also, the simple text box is now called "text" and robertl_ submitted a patch to rename the old text boxes to "note" +08:36:08 yep I felt just changing the text strings would be fine for that +08:36:14 tobiasz: i think we said to keep it simple for the beginning. +08:36:20 like we did with blog to journal +08:36:29 and thus not do any text to note conversion. +08:36:57 yep. we talked about the strings on monday and thus “text” and “note” :-) +08:37:18 is the conversion bit part of the 'extensions' admin section? +08:37:21 but for the plugin name: would there be any confusion? +08:37:28 what does it currently say? +08:38:02 anitsirk: I've had a look at the patch, every string that appears to the user, is changed into "text" +08:38:04 my patch changes the title of the plugin from textbox to note +08:38:14 sorry, "note" of course +08:38:42 so even in the extensions -> plugin list in admin it says 'note' +08:38:55 just had a look at the extensions page and i think the current textbox is just “html”. there is no mention of “textbox" +08:39:08 robertl_: ah. that’s good +08:39:15 robert: exactly, the option is /hidden/ in the configuration from the extension page +08:40:17 there is a file/html but that is different to internal/textbox +08:40:40 it will be the internal/textbox that becomes internal/note +08:41:10 sorry. was looking under artefact and not blocktype. you are right, robertl_ +08:41:20 ok moving forward +08:41:22 #topic Discuss the allowing of Ghada to the security review group +08:41:51 when I had to get out the recent update I found Ghada a big help +08:42:09 and so was wondering if she should be part of the security group +08:42:16 what do others think? +08:42:36 +1 +08:42:46 (but I can’t really vote ;-) ) +08:43:03 I think she did a great reviewers job on the new user message system, +1 +08:43:16 I found it useful having another member in a similar timezone when wgtn folks were on holiday/sick +08:43:33 son: what do you think? +08:43:44 +1 form me also +08:44:36 +1 (I also can't vote) +08:45:04 +1 +08:45:35 anitsirk, do you know how many counting votes do we need? +08:45:58 robertl_: there are not enough voting members here to make a decision. i suggest we send an email to all +2 reviewers and vote via email +08:46:13 that sounds a plan +08:46:14 there’s basically robertl_ and son only here who can vote. +08:46:40 isn't anzeljg a +2 reviewer? +08:46:45 nope +08:46:49 #action robertl_ send email to +2 reviewers to vote on Ghada to security team +08:47:08 ok next item +08:47:08 #info Vote for Ghada to become member of the security review as it’s beneficial to be able to talk to someone in a similar timezone. She also did a great job for the last security issue and also reviews in general. +08:47:25 ta anitsirk +08:47:27 #topic Discuss the Social profile addresses feature +08:47:42 I just wanted to discuss further Robert's comment on this feature at https://reviews.mahara.org/#/c/2936/ +08:47:44 anzeljg, I believe that is your one +08:47:55 The comment was: "It would be good to also transform the existing message types into the 'socialprofile' type - that way we could get rid of a bunch of obsolete options (and code associated with them)." +08:48:02 What do others think? +08:48:05 .. +08:48:41 robert was talking about removing messaging artefacts:icq, skype, etc. Right? +08:49:03 it was discussed at mahara hq and if I remember right we were for converting the old style to new style +08:49:18 agree. would be good to be more consistent esp. since many will probably not have used those “ancient” messaging types. we’d have to convert them though as some people might have repurposed them for other messaging types by just changing the lang strings. +08:49:18 oh I see... +08:49:43 the big issue was how difficult it would be +08:49:57 what do you mean? +08:50:15 to remove the old types and still have things like import/export still work +08:50:25 robertl_: "new style" means, user defined field names? Or side-wide defined? +08:50:53 *"site wide" instead of side-wide +08:50:54 fields defined as artefacttype socialprofile +08:51:35 the current patch, if i'm right, allows one to add label/value pairs +08:51:44 tobiasz: they are user defined descriptions, but in the case of the upgrade I think the descriptions would (initially) have to be set from existing lang strings +08:51:48 and they are all stored as the same artefacttype +08:52:15 ok, thanks. That sounds good to me +08:52:16 is that right anzeljg +08:52:18 ? +08:52:33 what robert_? +08:52:44 they are label/value +08:53:14 and the labels in the upgrade process will be set from existing lang strings for icq, skype etc. +08:54:24 there was talk about the removal of a bunch of php code relating to the old types +08:55:02 that is part of the 'still to do' stuff +08:55:02 yes as a result from converting the old artefacttypes to new ones right? +08:55:12 yep +08:55:59 anzeljg, any idea how much more work is needed to get that in and all merge ready? +08:56:16 a little, a lot? +08:56:31 I thnik that import/export should work, but it has to be tested. +08:56:41 #idea: robert was talking about removing messaging artefacts:icq, skype, etc. the big issue was how difficult it would be to remove the old types and still have things like import/export still work +08:57:13 if it works, then I guess it is not a lot of work +08:57:37 I can try that locally and report back +08:57:48 ok cool +08:58:33 Whoops, I was disconnected for a while there +08:58:48 #action anzeljg to report back on how much more work is needed to get the converting of old types to new socialprofile types and whether import/export will still work +08:59:20 will do :) +08:59:43 ok, moving on to the next one +08:59:50 #topic Discuss the Question plugin +09:00:01 tobiasz, this is your plugin +09:00:40 well, it was based on the paper from the totara social plan +09:01:33 I think, most of the basic functionality is there, I wanted to add a better search/filter for questions and a block type +09:01:40 I was a little confused about when questions should be editable and when they shouldn't +09:02:14 as I was worried one could change the question after people had answered +09:02:27 yep, the way I thought it was, that "open" means "open for answers", but I noticed that this caused a little confusion +09:02:36 and so could totally change the relevance of their answers +09:03:05 actually, I thought so initially, but I agree that this was a bad idea +09:03:25 ... changing the question text after someone has already answered +09:03:35 #info most of the basic functionality is there, tobiasz wanted to add a better search/filter for questions and a block type +09:04:42 also should all admins be allowed to pick best answer or should it only be the question creator? +09:05:25 what about staff? wouldn’t they sometimes be better suited than admins? +09:05:53 so far, I consider a right for /edit the question/, that is provided to the author and admins, and I thought it consinstent to provide that same right also to "pick the best answer" +09:06:33 Makes sense that a question author should be able to pick which answer they think is best +09:07:13 I think, on a code level, admin checks "admin for this user", so that might include staff, but I'm not sure +09:07:22 I'll have a closer look on that +09:07:57 #info who can pick best answer? tobiasz says he considers a right for /edit the question/, that is provided to the author and admins, and I thought it consinstent to provide that same right also to "pick the best answer" +09:08:41 aarowlaptop: yep, the author should always have the right to pick the best answer. What we were unclear about was, if the admin also should have that right +09:09:11 tobiasz: thanks. we need to keep in mind that admins are often that: admins and not really involved in the day to day content use of the application. thus, the next best thing would be staff if you want to give some people more privileges and not just anyone +09:09:55 Ah, I see. Well usually, only artefact owners/authors are allowed to edit their artefacts. So it should probably be the same for questions +09:10:03 if they are a type of artefact +09:10:37 they are artefacts. Ok, makes sense to me +09:11:13 Another thing I noticed was questions can have comments added to them as well as answers , and that answers can also have comments - my query was should those comments be allowed to have attachements? +09:11:16 so, maybe additional staff get's the right with an option? +09:11:44 what do you mean “with an option"? +09:12:04 that the author/owner has the option to allow staff the right +09:12:18 I think the only situation where it would make sense for multiple people to be able to edit or administer a question, would be if questions can be created as group artefacts +09:12:55 ... and/or maybe also if questions can be created as site-level or institution-level artefacts? +09:13:16 i would normally only give the right to choose the best answer, but not to alter the question (unless it’s a question in a group and then the same rules could apply that apply to pages: decide who can edit) +09:13:24 ok, they don't work as group artefacts so far, so I'll skip those additional rights for the moment +09:13:54 that's what i thought: that the author/owner has the option to give staff the right to choose the best answer (not to edit the question) +09:14:20 we can alway get it working for the individual first before tackling groups/insititutions +09:14:40 #info questions will be implemented as personal artefacts initially and not as group artefacts. +09:14:42 Yes +09:14:47 ok +09:15:57 I'd rather avoid having the option, on a personal question artefact, to give partial control of it to other users. We don't have any other personal artefacts that act that way, and I think it could open up a lot of complexities. +09:17:13 about the comments: in general I imagine it to be usefull to add files in comments, though it's not a must-have from my point of view +09:18:17 I just wonder that with questions/answers/likes/comments all being part of this that it could get a little messy/confusing +09:18:44 if one can do comment attachments also +09:18:59 but if others are fine with it I'll not fight it :) +09:19:00 agreed +09:19:08 hm +09:19:21 Well, on the one hand it's nice to be consistent +09:19:28 true +09:19:57 I can see how people might do a question like "Attach a word document with ... in it" +09:20:14 Oh, but it's the comments that have attachments, not the answers, huh? +09:20:23 yep, the comments +09:20:32 I guess I could go either way on this one. :-\ +09:21:01 * robertl_ thinking of stackoverflow - where there are questions / answers / comments +09:21:04 hmm, good point. Attachments on answers would make more sense +09:21:09 but no attachments +09:21:42 right +09:22:04 robertl_: agree, we can always complicate things later :) +09:22:34 #idea keep things simple for the beginning and not worry about attachments. but just have questions, answers and comments. +09:22:49 the problem here is comments have attachments built in - so the complication would be to not have them :) +09:22:51 about the complication: Does anybody know if there's a switch to turn off attachments for comments? I found the comment code in general rather difficult to adjust +09:23:07 I looked, there isn't +09:23:20 it's an all or nothing deal at the moment +09:23:39 maybe I can just hide them on CSS? +09:23:45 #info turning off attachments on comments would be more difficult as comments, i.e. feedback comes with attachments built-in and there is no switch to turn attachmens off there. +09:23:53 but that switch should be added - as a institution setting +09:24:07 or site setting +09:24:11 I believe +09:24:45 even if it's not for this change in particular +09:24:48 i quite like the attachments as they allow for richer feedback than just text +09:25:08 like audio commentary or even a video if you so wanted. we want to promote the use of multimedia in a portfolio and not just text... +09:25:31 maybe it would be better to keep attachments on regular feedback, but not allow attachments on comments. +09:26:01 have some demarkation of where to have attachments and where not to +09:26:11 that sounds ok +09:26:57 anitsirk: I don't think, robertl_ wanted to turn off attachments on feedback in general, just add a switch to deactivate them on comments on the answers in the question plugin (and other artefacts) +09:27:26 yeah - that's the idea I've come round to +09:27:56 #idea: turn off attachments on comments on answers in the question plugin but keep attachments on feedback +09:28:35 ok any more questions about the Question plugin? +09:28:43 nope. not at the moment. +09:28:53 right then +09:28:55 #topic Next meeting and chair +09:29:32 so who would like to volunteer to be the chair? +09:30:19 i can do it +09:30:20 anyone? +09:30:24 thank anitsirk +09:30:25 maybe fix the date first? +09:30:30 ;-) +09:30:41 ah true that might help +09:31:00 anitsirk was too fast for all of us ;) +09:31:10 i waited a whole minute ;-) +09:31:17 indeed... :) +09:31:28 wanted to put robertl_ out of his misery +09:31:57 wow, commendable :) +09:32:19 I haven't been that bad have I? +09:32:28 not at all! +09:32:37 nah. just meant the misery of having to find a volunteer +09:33:38 what about the last week of September? +09:34:08 Sorry guys - keep dropping out tonight. Not that I'd have much to say anyway :) +09:34:08 week of 22nd? +09:34:37 yep +09:34:38 week of 22nd sounds good to me +09:34:42 that will just be before the release of 1.10 +09:34:43 that would work +09:34:52 so we'll have something to discus right there +09:35:08 week of 22nd sounds fine to me +09:35:23 which actual day/night though? +09:35:23 shall we say thursday again to stay consistent? +09:35:37 that's ok with me +09:35:56 me too +09:36:02 me too +09:36:26 ok +09:36:34 Thursdays good here too. +09:36:36 waht about http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+36th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140925T08 +09:36:42 25th of September at 8 UTC? +09:36:56 that would work +09:37:23 cool by me +09:37:33 good to me +09:37:49 fine with me +09:38:30 #info the 36th Developer Meeting will take place on 25th September at 8:00 UTC: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+36th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140925T08 +09:38:59 ok so that leaves +09:39:01 #topic Any other business +09:39:06 i have one +09:39:09 I have a small question +09:39:13 after you, anzeljg +09:39:26 waiting for others... +09:39:26 i also have a small one +09:39:44 go ahead, anzeljg +09:40:00 I'm planning to rewrite Survey plugin in a way that it will be possible to generate surveys using forms inside Mahara (e.g. in Administration) instead of using XML. So also forms could be generated - this can maybe also be an answer to https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1317447 +09:40:07 But I have some trouble how to calculate results from surveys or rather how can Mahara users "tell" or "instruct" Mahara to calculate results. I mean it is easy to e.g. find maximum/minimum/average value from all the numerical answers/options, but it is something completely different when you have more than one category of answers in the survey and when some answers count in a positive way/direction and the other answers in a nega +09:40:16 I would be very greteful for any ideas how to achieve this. BTW: in current Survey plugin solution this (the results calculation) had to be hard-coded by a programer, so I'm looking for a "simple" (if possible) soultion to allow regular users to achieve/"code" this... +09:40:17 .. +09:40:52 "grateful" not greteful :) +09:41:14 that’s the secret sauce of survey software :-) +09:41:20 Does Moodle have a survey plugin? +09:41:28 anitsirk: I know +09:41:32 it has a feedback plugin that does some basic calculations +09:41:33 You could look at how they do it +09:41:40 aarowlaptop: it does, thanks! +09:41:42 what sort of calculations were you thinking of, anzeljg ? +09:42:13 if at all, i would only do the very basics because for anything complicated, people will want to export it to a more sophisticated program to do their analysis in. +09:42:43 I have a survey which has three categories (since it measures three things), then it also has some control questions and results are calculated based on regular and control questions... +09:42:58 we could also take a look at how the current survey plugin does it's calculations to see if/how it could be made more generic/flexible +09:42:59 What sort of answer fields does the survey plugin support? +09:43:12 regular questions increase score, control questions decrease score +09:43:37 It's real easy to get real complicated with these sorts of things. Take a look at the Mahara quiz question interface, for instance. ;) +09:44:03 aarowtop: currently: text, textarea, dropdown, checkboxes, radiobuttons - standart set I guess +09:44:03 aarowlaptop: mahara or moodle? +09:44:11 Oh, Moodle +09:44:20 Mm hm +09:44:42 I mean, for things with a fixed number of answers (dropdown, checkbox, radio button) it seems like you could just have a bar graph +09:45:00 but then I don't have much domain knowledge of surveys +09:45:26 aarowtop: I know, but I also have to calculate the result either as a number or as a prcent +09:46:00 anzeljg: what if you only went with the most basic analysis? calculations according to regular and control questions seems already pretty complicated. +09:46:06 (I'm looking up what a control question is now...) +09:46:12 moodle only does very simple analysis in the feedback module iirc +09:46:54 I don't know exactly how they are called in English - they can be control questions or inverse questions or... +09:46:59 the quiz module is of course a whole different kettle of fish +09:47:33 thanks guys. I'll try to work something out... Please let me know if you have any idea, ok? +09:47:40 Hm, so is a "control question" one that you include so you can tell if they're just answering the questions randomly? +09:48:00 And if they give the "wrong" answer to the control question, you disregard their answers? +09:48:07 aarowtop: As far as I know yes +09:48:46 No it doesn't work like that - you don't completely disregard their answers +09:49:00 it just shows in their results... +09:49:35 but due to the different wording, the control-questions answer might differ slightly, if you use weights, for example. I think that gets difficult pretty fast +09:50:01 agree +09:50:57 that's why it's easier to create survey with XML (and optional logic programmed in the back), and not let users create their own... :( +09:51:25 anzeljg: but what if you keep out the analysis and let other software take care of that? would that work? +09:52:10 As I see it: user "solves" the survey and gets instant feedback +09:52:13 haven’t used R, but I remember that we could import questionnaire data into SPSS and then assign weighting etc. +09:52:37 even the simplest surveys I've came around (and are already implemented in XML) have control questions and stuff like that +09:54:21 It's is also nice that users can graphically present the results of simple questionnaire/survey on their Mahara page (remember MyLearning plugin?) +09:55:21 did you have different weightings in the mylearning plugin? +09:55:37 no - meant the graphical presentation +09:56:37 it just came to my mind - i might do something in between: allow users to create simple forms/surveys with forms and support complex ones (programmatically in the back) +09:58:06 so have some preset surveys as well as ability to create a survey +09:58:12 ? +09:58:20 yep. like the hybrid approach +09:58:30 mabye it’s two different plugins then just so that it’s easier to keep things apart esp if you use different infrastructure +09:58:50 that's good too +09:59:34 just so that things aren’t overcomplicated +09:59:58 so like: survey plugin (like it is now, with XML and stuff) and forms plugin to allow users to create simple forms/surveys +10:01:12 thanks guys! +10:01:16 that's all from me +10:01:45 ok, so here's my question: I remember aarowlaptop saying on the workshop in Brighton that from +1-reviewers, a Verified-note would be helpfull - but I can't see how to put that. Is that a permission-issue or did I just miss the box? +10:02:13 tobiasz: do you only see the code reviewer column or also the verified column? +10:02:23 i mean when you give your review? +10:02:33 probably not really a column but radio buttons +10:02:48 In the list of reviewers, I see the "Verified" and the "Code-Review" column +10:03:07 i think you’d need to be in the “tester” group to be able to “Verify” +10:03:38 and what do you see when you click the “Review” button? Do you only have one area, “code review” or also “verify” with the +1, no score, fail? +10:03:46 But when I publish a review, I only see the "Code-Review" section +10:04:00 yep. you aren’t in the proper group. i think it is the tester group. +10:04:18 aarowlaptop: could you please add tobiasz into the group that i’m / cattester, i.e. stephen is in? +10:04:29 i shouldn’t be in any other special group and i see both. +10:04:40 sure +10:05:00 #idea make it default for people who have a registered account to be able to verify things. +10:05:09 usually, you probably start out with verification and not code review +10:05:10 done +10:05:23 aarowlaptop: ^ +10:05:26 ok, thanks. Just what I wanted to ask, anitsirk ^^ +10:06:10 as i see it, anyone can do the verification because we use that as front end QA / testing. whereas code review should really only be for those looking into the code. +10:06:33 (and thanks for adding me to the group, the Verified-part appears now) +10:06:42 easy fix :-) +10:08:03 did you have anything else, tobiasz ? +10:08:29 no, that's it, thanks +10:09:15 #info the ui freeze is coming closer. thus, if you have time to review patches that have already been submitted, any help would be appreciated. +10:09:49 that’s it from me. +10:09:52 I'm working on a different project for a client at the mo, but will just focus on testing when I come back, if you want. +10:09:57 anyone else? +10:10:27 thanks, nigelc. let us know when you’d have time again, and we can prioritize what to look at for you. +10:10:47 Was going to focus on CSV import/exports, but that can wait till after I guess. +10:10:51 That would be good. +10:11:52 ok, if no one else has anything I'l call this meeting closed +10:11:55 Thank you all very much for attending and discussing in today's dev meeting. +10:12:03 thank you for chairing, robertl_ +10:12:05 #endmeeting \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-08-14-08.05.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-08-14-08.05.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..6b912e0dccda2e793653bd05f8904d2a5e2fa587 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-08-14-08.05.txt @@ -0,0 +1,140 @@ +=================== +#mahara-dev Meeting +=================== + + +Meeting started by robertl_ at 08:05:28 UTC. The full logs are available +at +http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-08-14-08.05.log.html +. + + + +Meeting summary +--------------- +* anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ (anitsirk, + 08:05:44) +* robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ (robertl_, + 08:05:48) +* tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany + (tobiasz, 08:06:02) +* son is Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ (son, 08:06:54) +* anzeljg is Gregor Anželj, developer and translator from Gimnazija + Bežigrad, Ljubljana, Slovenia (anzeljg, 08:07:11) +* aarowlaptop is Aaron G. Wells from Catalyst IT in Wellington, NZ + (aarowlaptop, 08:08:33) +* Items from last meeting (robertl_, 08:09:26) + * anitsirk to check if another catalyst dev can upgrade the mahara + gerrit since we are upgrading our internal one as well. (robertl_, + 08:09:35) + * anitsirk to adjust the help text to show the correct number of days + that certain messages are deleted. (robertl_, 08:10:40) + * robertl to write up notes of how to deal with patches that one + person started and another continued and then hands back (robertl_, + 08:11:09) + * Nigel Cunningham from Catalyst - Melbourne (nigelc1, 08:21:51) + * ACTION: robert_ look into the reviews permissions to see if this + problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info + (robertl_, 08:27:42) + * tobiasz tries to implement an automatic conversion of all reusable + text-boxes that aren't copied so far to plain ones. (robertl_, + 08:28:23) + +* Discuss the allowing of Ghada to the security review group (robertl_, + 08:41:22) + * ACTION: robertl_ send email to +2 reviewers to vote on Ghada to + security team (robertl_, 08:46:49) + * Vote for Ghada to become member of the security review as it’s + beneficial to be able to talk to someone in a similar timezone. She + also did a great job for the last security issue and also reviews in + general. (anitsirk, 08:47:08) + +* Discuss the Social profile addresses feature (robertl_, 08:47:27) + * IDEA: : robert was talking about removing messaging artefacts:icq, + skype, etc. the big issue was how difficult it would be to remove + the old types and still have things like import/export still work + (anitsirk, 08:56:41) + * ACTION: anzeljg to report back on how much more work is needed to + get the converting of old types to new socialprofile types and + whether import/export will still work (robertl_, 08:58:48) + +* Discuss the Question plugin (robertl_, 08:59:50) + * who can pick best answer? tobiasz says he considers a right for + /edit the question/, that is provided to the author and admins, and + I thought it consinstent to provide that same right also to "pick + the best answer" (anitsirk, 09:07:57) + * questions will be implemented as personal artefacts initially and + not as group artefacts. (anitsirk, 09:14:40) + * IDEA: keep things simple for the beginning and not worry about + attachments. but just have questions, answers and comments. + (anitsirk, 09:22:34) + * turning off attachments on comments would be more difficult as + comments, i.e. feedback comes with attachments built-in and there is + no switch to turn attachmens off there. (anitsirk, 09:23:45) + * IDEA: : turn off attachments on comments on answers in the question + plugin but keep attachments on feedback (anitsirk, 09:27:56) + +* Next meeting and chair (robertl_, 09:28:55) + * the 36th Developer Meeting will take place on 25th September at 8:00 + UTC: + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+36th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20140925T08 + (robertl_, 09:38:30) + +* Any other business (robertl_, 09:39:01) + * IDEA: make it default for people who have a registered account to be + able to verify things. (anitsirk, 10:05:00) + * the ui freeze is coming closer. thus, if you have time to review + patches that have already been submitted, any help would be + appreciated. (anitsirk, 10:09:15) + +Meeting ended at 10:12:05 UTC. + + + + +Action Items +------------ +* robert_ look into the reviews permissions to see if this problem can + be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info +* robertl_ send email to +2 reviewers to vote on Ghada to security team +* anzeljg to report back on how much more work is needed to get the + converting of old types to new socialprofile types and whether + import/export will still work + + + + +Action Items, by person +----------------------- +* anzeljg + * anzeljg to report back on how much more work is needed to get the + converting of old types to new socialprofile types and whether + import/export will still work +* robertl_ + * robertl_ send email to +2 reviewers to vote on Ghada to security + team +* **UNASSIGNED** + * robert_ look into the reviews permissions to see if this problem can + be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info + + + + +People Present (lines said) +--------------------------- +* robertl_ (136) +* anitsirk (95) +* anzeljg (60) +* tobiasz (49) +* aarowlaptop (36) +* son (5) +* nigelc1 (5) +* maharameet (3) +* nigelc_ (3) + + + + +Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 + +.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-09-25-08.05.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-09-25-08.05.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..0828f346f47e01301763d4445de98adeb601769b --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-09-25-08.05.html @@ -0,0 +1,270 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev Meeting + + + + +

#mahara-dev Meeting

+ +Meeting started by anitsirk at 08:05:43 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Meeting summary

+
    +
  1. +
      +
    1. Welcome to the 36th Mahara developer meeting. + Please state your name and where you are from for the minutes. If + you are saying something very long, please put ".." on an empty line + by itself to indicate your statement is finished. (anitsirk, + 08:05:46)
    2. +
    3. anitsirk = Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, + Wellington (anitsirk, + 08:06:03)
    4. +
    5. tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at KIT, + Karlsruhe, Germany (tobiasz, + 08:06:13)
    6. +
    7. sonn_, Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, + Wellington (sonn_, + 08:06:15)
    8. +
    9. nigelc_home = Nigel Cunningham, Catalyst IT, + Melbourne (nigelc_home, + 08:06:20)
    10. +
    11. mingard = Jono Mingard, student at Gakushuin + University, Japan (mingard, + 08:06:24)
    12. +
    13. robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, + Wellington, NZ (robertl_, + 08:06:36)
    14. +
    15. ghada-laptop = Ghada El-Zoghbi, Catalyst IT, + Sydney (ghada1, + 08:07:00)
    16. +
    +
  2. +
  3. Items from last meeting (anitsirk, 08:07:21) +
      +
    1. Item 1 from last meeting: robert_ look into the + reviews permissions to see if the change author problem can be + avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info (anitsirk, + 08:07:21)
    2. +
    3. ACTION: robertl_ to + look into the reviews permissions to see if the change author + problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more + info (anitsirk, + 08:08:34)
    4. +
    5. Item 2 from last meeting: robertl_ send email + to +2 reviewers to vote on Ghada to security team (anitsirk, + 08:08:44)
    6. +
    7. ghada was voted into the security team by the + majority of the people who could vote (anitsirk, + 08:09:31)
    8. +
    9. anzeljg is Gregor Anzelj, developer, translator + from Gimnazija Bezigrad, Slovenia (anzeljg, + 08:09:33)
    10. +
    11. Item 3 from last meeting: anzeljg to report + back on how much more work is needed to get the converting of old + types to new socialprofile types and whether import/export will + still work (anitsirk, + 08:12:41)
    12. +
    13. this item was resolved because the feature is + now in RC1 for Mahara 1.10 (anitsirk, + 08:12:42)
    14. +
    15. social profile functionality is looking good, + but testing leap2 export and import should be looked at closely + during rc (anitsirk, + 08:16:14)
    16. +
    17. the catalyst core team is going to get serious + with automated functional testing (anitsirk, + 08:16:57)
    18. +
    +
  4. +
  5. Mahara 1.10 RC 1 (Kristina) (anitsirk, 08:18:49) +
      +
    1. RC 1 for Mahara 1.10 was released earlier + today. See the announcement. (anitsirk, + 08:18:49)
    2. +
    3. https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6463 + (anitsirk, + 08:18:50)
    4. +
    5. We invite everyone to give it a thorough + testing. please report bugs as usual as new items on the tracker. we + will prioritize them and see that we fix the important + issues. (anitsirk, + 08:18:50)
    6. +
    7. according to the latest count, we have 35 new + features. some small, but some also quite involved. :-) thank you + very much to everyone who contributed. (anitsirk, + 08:18:50)
    8. +
    9. please test on different types of browsers, + machines, devices, databases, different previous versions of + mahara... (anitsirk, + 08:22:13)
    10. +
    +
  6. +
  7. Mahara October 2014 Newsletter (Kristina) (anitsirk, 08:26:39) +
      +
    1. if you wish to publish an article in the next + newsletter, i will need to have the text tomorrow, friday, 26 + september 2014. please send it to newsletter@mahara.org it can be + anything technical, event announcement, pedagogical, ideas, + questions, search for collaboration (anitsirk, + 08:26:39)
    2. +
    3. ACTION: robertl_ to + write his first mahara newsletter article on an upcoming 1.11 + feature, the "artefact feedback on page" one funded by New York + Institute of Technology (anitsirk, + 08:32:14)
    4. +
    +
  8. +
  9. Next meeting and chair (anitsirk, 08:34:36) +
      +
    1. the 37th mahara developer meeting will take + place on 23 october 2014 at 8 UTC. See + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+37th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20141023T08 + for your timezone. (anitsirk, + 08:36:27)
    2. +
    3. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+37th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20141023T08 + is the time of the 37th mahara dev meeting (anitsirk, + 08:37:04)
    4. +
    5. robertl_ will chair the next mahara dev meeting + in october 2014 (anitsirk, + 08:37:35)
    6. +
    +
  10. +
  11. Any other business (anitsirk, 08:37:45) +
      +
    1. the website https://mahara.org now has a + section "Events". Let me know if you organize an event and want to + have it appear there. (anitsirk, + 08:38:19)
    2. +
    +
  12. +
+

+ + + + +Meeting ended at 08:40:34 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Action items

+
    +
  1. robertl_ to look into the reviews permissions to see if the change author problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info
  2. +
  3. robertl_ to write his first mahara newsletter article on an upcoming 1.11 feature, the "artefact feedback on page" one funded by New York Institute of Technology
  4. +
+

+ + + +

Action items, by person

+
    +
  1. robertl_
      +
    1. robertl_ to look into the reviews permissions to see if the change author problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info
    2. +
    3. robertl_ to write his first mahara newsletter article on an upcoming 1.11 feature, the "artefact feedback on page" one funded by New York Institute of Technology
    4. +
  2. +
+

+ + + +

People present (lines said)

+
    +
  1. anitsirk (107)
  2. +
  3. robertl_ (35)
  4. +
  5. ghada1 (24)
  6. +
  7. anzeljg (18)
  8. +
  9. mingard (16)
  10. +
  11. sonn_ (10)
  12. +
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  15. tobiasz (5)
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+ + + +Generated by MeetBot 0.1.4. + diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-09-25-08.05.log.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-09-25-08.05.log.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..d93aa2b1ff4655ea5f15b4dec5bf4a29b4d5f95e --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-09-25-08.05.log.html @@ -0,0 +1,254 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev log + + + + +
08:05:43 <anitsirk> #startmeeting
+08:05:43 <maharameet> Meeting started Thu Sep 25 08:05:43 2014 UTC.  The chair is anitsirk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
+08:05:43 <maharameet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
+08:05:45 <mingard> hi everyone, sorry I'm a little late
+08:05:46 <anitsirk> #info Welcome to the 36th Mahara developer meeting. Please state your name and where you are from for the minutes. If you are saying something very long, please put ".." on an empty line by itself to indicate your statement is finished.
+08:05:47 <anitsirk> Please feel free to use meeting commands yourself. :-)
+08:05:52 <anitsirk> mingard: we just started :-)
+08:06:03 <anitsirk> #info anitsirk = Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington
+08:06:13 <tobiasz> #info tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany
+08:06:14 <anitsirk> oh yea, please put the #info at the beginning of your intro line
+08:06:15 <sonn_> #info sonn_, Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington
+08:06:20 <nigelc_home> #info nigelc_home = Nigel Cunningham, Catalyst IT, Melbourne
+08:06:24 <mingard> #info mingard = Jono Mingard, student at Gakushuin University, Japan
+08:06:36 <robertl_> #info robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+08:07:00 <ghada1> #info ghada-laptop = Ghada El-Zoghbi, Catalyst IT, Sydney
+08:07:17 <anitsirk> today might be a very short meeting. we'll see. but let's try to make it efficient for everyone. :-)
+08:07:21 <anitsirk> #topic  Items from last meeting
+08:07:21 <anitsirk> #info Item 1 from last meeting: robert_ look into the reviews permissions to see if the change author problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info
+08:07:28 <anitsirk> robertl_ you are up
+08:07:43 <robertl_> I've not been able to look into this further
+08:07:56 <robertl_> been busy with release candidate etc
+08:08:04 <anitsirk> yeah. way too busy. shall i put it on the next meeting agenda?
+08:08:10 <robertl_> will try and find some time before the next meeting
+08:08:15 <anitsirk> i'd like to have you find that out instead of tabling it for indefinite
+08:08:19 <robertl_> yep roll it over
+08:08:34 <anitsirk> #action robertl_ to look into the reviews permissions to see if the change author problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info
+08:08:41 <anitsirk> thank you
+08:08:44 <anitsirk> #info Item 2 from last meeting: robertl_ send email to +2 reviewers to vote on Ghada to security team
+08:08:58 <anzeljg> hi
+08:09:03 <anitsirk> hi anzeljg. right on time. :-)
+08:09:04 <robertl_> ghada was voted in to the security team
+08:09:11 <anitsirk> can you please state your name for the record?
+08:09:11 <robertl_> hi anzeljg
+08:09:28 <sonn_> hi anzeljg
+08:09:31 <anitsirk> #info ghada was voted into the security team by the majority of the people who could vote
+08:09:33 <anzeljg> #info anzeljg is Gregor Anzelj, developer, translator from Gimnazija Bezigrad, Slovenia
+08:09:35 <tobiasz> hi anzeljg
+08:09:46 <robertl_> and only just the other day got permissions to gerrit sorted
+08:09:53 <ghada1> :)
+08:09:56 <anitsirk> even better :-)
+08:09:57 <robertl_> to allow her to see the security patches
+08:10:08 <nigelc_home> Congrats, ghada1 :)
+08:10:12 <anitsirk> wasn't that the important bit?
+08:10:24 <ghada1> minor issue...
+08:10:35 <robertl_> the probem was all the security team before were also admin members of gerrit
+08:10:40 <anitsirk> great that all is sorted now.
+08:10:46 <nigelc_home> Hehe. So what you're saying is that it's actually more work for her!
+08:10:55 <robertl_> so we hadn't realised the perms were on wrong group
+08:11:06 <anitsirk> long live the admins
+08:11:22 <robertl_> got it sorted out now
+08:11:37 <ghada1> so, i can work on security issues now.
+08:11:38 <anitsirk> awesome. now nz can go on holiday ;-)
+08:11:46 <robertl_> sweet!
+08:11:48 <nigelc_home> :)
+08:11:52 <ghada1> to Aus to help out with the work?
+08:11:59 <anitsirk> lol
+08:12:00 <mingard> to Japan to see me :D
+08:12:02 <robertl_> hehe
+08:12:12 <anzeljg> lol
+08:12:19 <sonn_> :D
+08:12:27 <anitsirk> mingard: that'll be "any other business". remind me if i forget
+08:12:32 <mingard> OK
+08:12:39 <anitsirk> ok. moving on before we get out our travel planners.
+08:12:41 <anitsirk> #info Item 3 from last meeting:  anzeljg to report back on how much more work is needed to get the converting of old types to new socialprofile types and whether import/export will still work
+08:12:42 <anitsirk> #info this item was resolved because the feature is now in RC1 for Mahara 1.10
+08:12:50 <anitsirk> finally got it in, anzeljg :-)
+08:12:59 <anzeljg> a big thanks to Ghada and Robert
+08:13:02 <ghada1> great job anzeljg - that was quite an effort
+08:13:04 <anzeljg> and everybody else
+08:13:05 <anzeljg> :)
+08:13:17 <robertl_> yes - it's very good that got in
+08:13:35 <robertl_> makes the mahara look a bit more modern
+08:13:39 <anitsirk> do we need to label it experimental because it got in only shortly?
+08:13:51 <robertl_> not having to have the old message profile options
+08:14:32 <robertl_> it was mostly tested fine - just the leap2a import/export was a bit rushed at the end
+08:14:51 <ghada1> i didn't get a chance to look at that unfortunately - the leap2a
+08:14:57 <anitsirk> ok. maybe we can focus testing in the rc on leap2a
+08:15:01 <anzeljg> will still have RC
+08:15:05 <robertl_> so that bit of functionality may be a bit experimental
+08:15:11 <sonn_> What did you concern about leap2a?
+08:15:24 <anitsirk> robertl_ something to keep in mind for jinelle and eduardo for next week
+08:15:45 <robertl_> yep something good for them to test
+08:15:53 <anzeljg> anitsirk: do you have interns again?
+08:16:08 <ghada1> it was waiting on another  bug in the leap2a to get fixed.
+08:16:14 <anitsirk> #info social profile functionality is looking good, but testing leap2 export and import should be looked at closely during rc
+08:16:15 <robertl_> sonn_, it was mostly noone but me really tested the import/export and I wrote bits of it
+08:16:17 <ghada1> i can't remember the bug number.
+08:16:36 <anitsirk> anzeljg: we have a junior tester (jinelle) and a part-time tester (eduardo) on the team now.
+08:16:44 <sonn_> I recall it get fixed
+08:16:53 <ghada1> ok, that's great.
+08:16:57 <anitsirk> #info the catalyst core team is going to get serious with automated functional testing
+08:17:07 <nigelc_home> phpunit?
+08:17:11 <anitsirk> behat
+08:17:14 <nigelc_home> k
+08:17:16 <anzeljg> ghada: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1358934
+08:17:23 <nigelc_home> Another thing to learn :)
+08:17:38 <anzeljg> +1
+08:17:39 <ghada1> yep, that's it .. thanks anzeljg
+08:17:46 <anitsirk> sonn had already set up a lot of the infrastructure. now we actually need tests written ;-)
+08:17:58 <anitsirk> anything else for anzeljg's item?
+08:18:11 <anzeljg> not from me
+08:18:12 <ghada1> nope.
+08:18:25 <anitsirk> ok then.
+08:18:27 <anitsirk> drumroll
+08:18:34 <anitsirk> ...
+08:18:40 <anzeljg> ...
+08:18:41 <anitsirk> everybody drumming?
+08:18:46 <anzeljg> indeed!!!
+08:18:47 <ghada1> and humming
+08:18:49 <anitsirk> #topic Mahara 1.10 RC 1 (Kristina)
+08:18:49 <anitsirk> #info RC 1 for Mahara 1.10 was released earlier today. See the announcement.
+08:18:50 <anitsirk> https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6463
+08:18:50 <anitsirk> #info We invite everyone to give it a thorough testing. please report bugs as usual as new items on the tracker. we will prioritize them and see that we fix the important issues.
+08:18:50 <anitsirk> #info according to the latest count, we have 35 new features. some small, but some also quite involved. :-) thank you very much to everyone who contributed.
+08:18:50 * robertl_ waits excitedly
+08:19:25 <anitsirk> spread the word widely in your circles and ask people to test it on their test instances
+08:19:43 <anitsirk> the rc phase is important to find out if there are major issues that would need fixing before the stable release
+08:19:54 <mingard> woo! looking forward to seeing these new features
+08:20:00 <ghada1> that's great news.  will do!
+08:20:08 <anitsirk> one you can already see on the homepage :-)
+08:20:22 <anitsirk> See for example: http://master.dev.mahara.org/
+08:20:35 <anitsirk> master.dev will be updated to rc1 tomorrow by robertl_
+08:20:36 <robertl_> please test on different types of browsers, machines, devices etc
+08:20:54 <anitsirk> databases, different previous versions of mahara...
+08:21:50 <anitsirk> yeah. thanks heaps to everyone who contributed. we were able to include some great useful things and also improve usability a bit again.
+08:21:53 <anzeljg> nice!
+08:22:13 <anitsirk> #info please test on different types of browsers, machines, devices, databases, different previous versions of mahara...
+08:22:17 <anitsirk> any questions?
+08:22:20 <sonn_> I'll update the selenium test cases for the new features tomorrow
+08:22:27 <anitsirk> thanks, sonn_
+08:22:32 <mingard> no questions, but I like the new create/share/engage look!
+08:22:40 <nigelc_home> Mmm
+08:22:58 <mingard> now I have a machine than can run VMs properly I'll try to test on a few different systems
+08:22:59 <robertl_> evonne has done a stellar job updating the design
+08:23:00 <anitsirk> mingard: me, too. t'was an idea from pace university who had spken lengthly with solent about usability, uncluttering the homepage etc.
+08:23:27 <anitsirk> they have two buttons (create and share), pace that is. but i thought we'd still need the third part of mahara there. so evonne made three
+08:23:40 <anitsirk> and the rollovers are great.
+08:23:40 <robertl_> and has made more stuff work with responsive design
+08:24:03 <ghada1> what's are user/passwords to log in?
+08:24:04 <anitsirk> works well on responsive as well and the buttons can be updated very easily with the lang strings and can thus be repurposes nicely by institutions
+08:24:18 <anitsirk> ghada1: create an account. there are no test accounts on that site
+08:24:27 <ghada1> ok.
+08:24:53 <anitsirk> there is no content of importance in there. it is just a site for users to do testing if they want to see the latest features but can't install a site themselves
+08:25:14 <anitsirk> ghada1: let me know when you have an account and i can make you admin
+08:25:24 <ghada1> sure, just registered...
+08:25:40 <ghada1> waiting for the email.
+08:26:13 <anitsirk> right. i'll approve you once you have it.
+08:26:21 <anitsirk> shall we move to the next topic?
+08:26:26 <ghada1> yep
+08:26:39 <anitsirk> #topic Mahara October 2014 Newsletter (Kristina)
+08:26:39 <anitsirk> #info if you wish to publish an article in the next newsletter, i will need to have the text tomorrow, friday, 26 september 2014. please send it to newsletter@mahara.org it can be anything technical, event announcement, pedagogical, ideas, questions, search for collaboration
+08:27:31 <anitsirk> mingard: if you wish to write a short article about mof and send it to me by end of 30 sept., i can still include that. ;-)
+08:27:54 <mingard> OK, i'll see if I have time :)
+08:27:59 <anitsirk> just need to have the majority in beforehand so i can prepare the newsletter since next week will be busy with somewhat uncertain internet
+08:28:07 <anitsirk> it would only be 100-200 words.
+08:28:22 <mingard> ok cool
+08:28:28 <anitsirk> and a picture if you want to :-)
+08:28:31 <sonn_> what is mof?
+08:28:38 <anitsirk> Mahara Open Forum in Japan
+08:28:44 <sonn_> ta
+08:29:05 <anitsirk> mingard is attending in hiroshima. it's on the weekend.
+08:29:17 <robertl_> would the upcoming feature "artefact feedback on view" be worth mentioning in the newsletter?
+08:29:27 <robertl_> or has that been mentioned before?
+08:29:36 <anitsirk> actually quite fitting to mention it here than under "any other business". they sent an article through last year and since then we know about it. it's already the 4th or 5th MOF
+08:30:05 <anitsirk> robertl_ sure. thought that'll not be in until 1.11
+08:30:35 <robertl_> I was thinking an upcoming features piece maybe?
+08:30:49 <robertl_> what one can look forward to post the 1.10 release
+08:30:53 <anitsirk> returning to MOF: and since mingard is currently in japan, it is great that he has time to attend.
+08:31:07 <anitsirk> robertl_ yep. do you want to write it or did you want me to mention it?
+08:31:25 <robertl_> I can put some words together tomorrow and get to you
+08:31:33 <anitsirk> awesome. thank you
+08:32:11 <mingard> I'll see if i can do a forum post or something about how it goes (in addition to the newsletter)
+08:32:14 <anitsirk> #action robertl_ to write his first mahara newsletter article on an upcoming 1.11 feature, the "artefact feedback on page" one funded by New York Institute of Technology
+08:32:22 <anitsirk> mingard: that would be fantastic.
+08:32:32 <anitsirk> BTW: mingard: are you in their facebook group?
+08:32:47 <anitsirk> they are posting lots of things right now.
+08:32:48 <mingard> curious to hear what Japanese people think of mahara, whether they have any different ideas from (for example) the ones raised at Mahara Hui
+08:32:51 <mingard> anitsirk: yes
+08:33:29 <anitsirk> That's why it's so great you have time to go because you are the only one i think from the core team who can understand japanese :-)
+08:33:38 <anitsirk> if there are others: please let us know.
+08:33:48 <mingard> well ... I can understand *some* japanese ;)
+08:33:55 <anitsirk> :-)
+08:34:09 <mingard> and I'll certainly let you know the results
+08:34:17 <anitsirk> thank you
+08:34:22 <anitsirk> alright. i think we are pretty much through with the meeting as i'm already at
+08:34:22 <anzeljg> mingard: more than the rest of us I guess ;)
+08:34:36 <anitsirk> #topic Next meeting and chair
+08:34:36 <anitsirk> Would thursday, 23 october 2014 at 8 UTC work? http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+37th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20141023T08
+08:35:10 <sonn_> works for me
+08:35:16 <anzeljg> fine with me
+08:35:23 <mingard> works for me
+08:35:29 <anitsirk> NZ note: it's 9 pm
+08:35:30 <robertl_> oh, that will start 1 hour later than normal for us nz folks
+08:35:38 <tobiasz> fine with me
+08:35:39 <robertl_> it's ok for me as well
+08:35:44 <ghada1> works for me
+08:35:52 <anitsirk> nigelc_home?
+08:36:11 <nigelc_home> Yeah
+08:36:27 <anitsirk> #info the 37th mahara developer meeting will take place on 23 october 2014 at 8 UTC. See http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+37th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20141023T08 for your timezone.
+08:36:37 <anitsirk> now to the important question: who want to chair the meeting?
+08:37:04 <anitsirk> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+37th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20141023T08 is the time of the 37th mahara dev meeting
+08:37:12 <anitsirk> no takers yet?
+08:37:14 <robertl_> I can do it again
+08:37:23 <anitsirk> robertl_ thank you.
+08:37:35 <anitsirk> #info robertl_ will chair the next mahara dev meeting in october 2014
+08:37:45 <anitsirk> #topic Any other business
+08:38:18 <anitsirk> ok. i have one.
+08:38:19 <anitsirk> #info the website https://mahara.org now has a section "Events". Let me know if you organize an event and want to have it appear there.
+08:38:30 <anitsirk> just realized, i don't yet have MOF on there. will remedy that in a few minutes.
+08:39:02 <anitsirk> does anybody else have any other business?
+08:39:12 <ghada1> nope.
+08:39:16 <robertl_> not I
+08:39:18 <anzeljg> no
+08:39:22 <mingard> nope
+08:39:28 <nigelc_home> Nope
+08:39:31 <sonn_> nope
+08:39:35 <tobiasz> no
+08:39:41 <anitsirk> then i guess this is a wrap.
+08:39:51 <ghada1> the quickest i can recall...
+08:40:00 <ghada1> good job anitsirk
+08:40:07 <anzeljg> thanks anitsirk
+08:40:07 <anitsirk> thank you very much, anzeljg, ghada1, robertl_, sonn_, mingard, tobiasz and nigelc_home for attending.
+08:40:20 <ghada1> thanks for chairing!
+08:40:25 <tobiasz> thanks anitsirk for chairing
+08:40:26 <anitsirk> ghada1: it almost felt like rushing through, but we didn't have much to discuss.
+08:40:33 <robertl_> thanks kristina
+08:40:34 <anitsirk> #endmeeting
+ diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-09-25-08.05.log.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-09-25-08.05.log.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..f616ce0f531e8298a18e5988a4964b571994256b --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-09-25-08.05.log.txt @@ -0,0 +1,227 @@ +08:05:43 #startmeeting +08:05:43 Meeting started Thu Sep 25 08:05:43 2014 UTC. The chair is anitsirk. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. +08:05:43 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. +08:05:45 hi everyone, sorry I'm a little late +08:05:46 #info Welcome to the 36th Mahara developer meeting. Please state your name and where you are from for the minutes. If you are saying something very long, please put ".." on an empty line by itself to indicate your statement is finished. +08:05:47 Please feel free to use meeting commands yourself. :-) +08:05:52 mingard: we just started :-) +08:06:03 #info anitsirk = Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington +08:06:13 #info tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany +08:06:14 oh yea, please put the #info at the beginning of your intro line +08:06:15 #info sonn_, Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington +08:06:20 #info nigelc_home = Nigel Cunningham, Catalyst IT, Melbourne +08:06:24 #info mingard = Jono Mingard, student at Gakushuin University, Japan +08:06:36 #info robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +08:07:00 #info ghada-laptop = Ghada El-Zoghbi, Catalyst IT, Sydney +08:07:17 today might be a very short meeting. we'll see. but let's try to make it efficient for everyone. :-) +08:07:21 #topic Items from last meeting +08:07:21 #info Item 1 from last meeting: robert_ look into the reviews permissions to see if the change author problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info +08:07:28 robertl_ you are up +08:07:43 I've not been able to look into this further +08:07:56 been busy with release candidate etc +08:08:04 yeah. way too busy. shall i put it on the next meeting agenda? +08:08:10 will try and find some time before the next meeting +08:08:15 i'd like to have you find that out instead of tabling it for indefinite +08:08:19 yep roll it over +08:08:34 #action robertl_ to look into the reviews permissions to see if the change author problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more info +08:08:41 thank you +08:08:44 #info Item 2 from last meeting: robertl_ send email to +2 reviewers to vote on Ghada to security team +08:08:58 hi +08:09:03 hi anzeljg. right on time. :-) +08:09:04 ghada was voted in to the security team +08:09:11 can you please state your name for the record? +08:09:11 hi anzeljg +08:09:28 hi anzeljg +08:09:31 #info ghada was voted into the security team by the majority of the people who could vote +08:09:33 #info anzeljg is Gregor Anzelj, developer, translator from Gimnazija Bezigrad, Slovenia +08:09:35 hi anzeljg +08:09:46 and only just the other day got permissions to gerrit sorted +08:09:53 :) +08:09:56 even better :-) +08:09:57 to allow her to see the security patches +08:10:08 Congrats, ghada1 :) +08:10:12 wasn't that the important bit? +08:10:24 minor issue... +08:10:35 the probem was all the security team before were also admin members of gerrit +08:10:40 great that all is sorted now. +08:10:46 Hehe. So what you're saying is that it's actually more work for her! +08:10:55 so we hadn't realised the perms were on wrong group +08:11:06 long live the admins +08:11:22 got it sorted out now +08:11:37 so, i can work on security issues now. +08:11:38 awesome. now nz can go on holiday ;-) +08:11:46 sweet! +08:11:48 :) +08:11:52 to Aus to help out with the work? +08:11:59 lol +08:12:00 to Japan to see me :D +08:12:02 hehe +08:12:12 lol +08:12:19 :D +08:12:27 mingard: that'll be "any other business". remind me if i forget +08:12:32 OK +08:12:39 ok. moving on before we get out our travel planners. +08:12:41 #info Item 3 from last meeting: anzeljg to report back on how much more work is needed to get the converting of old types to new socialprofile types and whether import/export will still work +08:12:42 #info this item was resolved because the feature is now in RC1 for Mahara 1.10 +08:12:50 finally got it in, anzeljg :-) +08:12:59 a big thanks to Ghada and Robert +08:13:02 great job anzeljg - that was quite an effort +08:13:04 and everybody else +08:13:05 :) +08:13:17 yes - it's very good that got in +08:13:35 makes the mahara look a bit more modern +08:13:39 do we need to label it experimental because it got in only shortly? +08:13:51 not having to have the old message profile options +08:14:32 it was mostly tested fine - just the leap2a import/export was a bit rushed at the end +08:14:51 i didn't get a chance to look at that unfortunately - the leap2a +08:14:57 ok. maybe we can focus testing in the rc on leap2a +08:15:01 will still have RC +08:15:05 so that bit of functionality may be a bit experimental +08:15:11 What did you concern about leap2a? +08:15:24 robertl_ something to keep in mind for jinelle and eduardo for next week +08:15:45 yep something good for them to test +08:15:53 anitsirk: do you have interns again? +08:16:08 it was waiting on another bug in the leap2a to get fixed. +08:16:14 #info social profile functionality is looking good, but testing leap2 export and import should be looked at closely during rc +08:16:15 sonn_, it was mostly noone but me really tested the import/export and I wrote bits of it +08:16:17 i can't remember the bug number. +08:16:36 anzeljg: we have a junior tester (jinelle) and a part-time tester (eduardo) on the team now. +08:16:44 I recall it get fixed +08:16:53 ok, that's great. +08:16:57 #info the catalyst core team is going to get serious with automated functional testing +08:17:07 phpunit? +08:17:11 behat +08:17:14 k +08:17:16 ghada: https://bugs.launchpad.net/mahara/+bug/1358934 +08:17:23 Another thing to learn :) +08:17:38 +1 +08:17:39 yep, that's it .. thanks anzeljg +08:17:46 sonn had already set up a lot of the infrastructure. now we actually need tests written ;-) +08:17:58 anything else for anzeljg's item? +08:18:11 not from me +08:18:12 nope. +08:18:25 ok then. +08:18:27 drumroll +08:18:34 ... +08:18:40 ... +08:18:41 everybody drumming? +08:18:46 indeed!!! +08:18:47 and humming +08:18:49 #topic Mahara 1.10 RC 1 (Kristina) +08:18:49 #info RC 1 for Mahara 1.10 was released earlier today. See the announcement. +08:18:50 https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6463 +08:18:50 #info We invite everyone to give it a thorough testing. please report bugs as usual as new items on the tracker. we will prioritize them and see that we fix the important issues. +08:18:50 #info according to the latest count, we have 35 new features. some small, but some also quite involved. :-) thank you very much to everyone who contributed. +08:18:50 * robertl_ waits excitedly +08:19:25 spread the word widely in your circles and ask people to test it on their test instances +08:19:43 the rc phase is important to find out if there are major issues that would need fixing before the stable release +08:19:54 woo! looking forward to seeing these new features +08:20:00 that's great news. will do! +08:20:08 one you can already see on the homepage :-) +08:20:22 See for example: http://master.dev.mahara.org/ +08:20:35 master.dev will be updated to rc1 tomorrow by robertl_ +08:20:36 please test on different types of browsers, machines, devices etc +08:20:54 databases, different previous versions of mahara... +08:21:50 yeah. thanks heaps to everyone who contributed. we were able to include some great useful things and also improve usability a bit again. +08:21:53 nice! +08:22:13 #info please test on different types of browsers, machines, devices, databases, different previous versions of mahara... +08:22:17 any questions? +08:22:20 I'll update the selenium test cases for the new features tomorrow +08:22:27 thanks, sonn_ +08:22:32 no questions, but I like the new create/share/engage look! +08:22:40 Mmm +08:22:58 now I have a machine than can run VMs properly I'll try to test on a few different systems +08:22:59 evonne has done a stellar job updating the design +08:23:00 mingard: me, too. t'was an idea from pace university who had spken lengthly with solent about usability, uncluttering the homepage etc. +08:23:27 they have two buttons (create and share), pace that is. but i thought we'd still need the third part of mahara there. so evonne made three +08:23:40 and the rollovers are great. +08:23:40 and has made more stuff work with responsive design +08:24:03 what's are user/passwords to log in? +08:24:04 works well on responsive as well and the buttons can be updated very easily with the lang strings and can thus be repurposes nicely by institutions +08:24:18 ghada1: create an account. there are no test accounts on that site +08:24:27 ok. +08:24:53 there is no content of importance in there. it is just a site for users to do testing if they want to see the latest features but can't install a site themselves +08:25:14 ghada1: let me know when you have an account and i can make you admin +08:25:24 sure, just registered... +08:25:40 waiting for the email. +08:26:13 right. i'll approve you once you have it. +08:26:21 shall we move to the next topic? +08:26:26 yep +08:26:39 #topic Mahara October 2014 Newsletter (Kristina) +08:26:39 #info if you wish to publish an article in the next newsletter, i will need to have the text tomorrow, friday, 26 september 2014. please send it to newsletter@mahara.org it can be anything technical, event announcement, pedagogical, ideas, questions, search for collaboration +08:27:31 mingard: if you wish to write a short article about mof and send it to me by end of 30 sept., i can still include that. ;-) +08:27:54 OK, i'll see if I have time :) +08:27:59 just need to have the majority in beforehand so i can prepare the newsletter since next week will be busy with somewhat uncertain internet +08:28:07 it would only be 100-200 words. +08:28:22 ok cool +08:28:28 and a picture if you want to :-) +08:28:31 what is mof? +08:28:38 Mahara Open Forum in Japan +08:28:44 ta +08:29:05 mingard is attending in hiroshima. it's on the weekend. +08:29:17 would the upcoming feature "artefact feedback on view" be worth mentioning in the newsletter? +08:29:27 or has that been mentioned before? +08:29:36 actually quite fitting to mention it here than under "any other business". they sent an article through last year and since then we know about it. it's already the 4th or 5th MOF +08:30:05 robertl_ sure. thought that'll not be in until 1.11 +08:30:35 I was thinking an upcoming features piece maybe? +08:30:49 what one can look forward to post the 1.10 release +08:30:53 returning to MOF: and since mingard is currently in japan, it is great that he has time to attend. +08:31:07 robertl_ yep. do you want to write it or did you want me to mention it? +08:31:25 I can put some words together tomorrow and get to you +08:31:33 awesome. thank you +08:32:11 I'll see if i can do a forum post or something about how it goes (in addition to the newsletter) +08:32:14 #action robertl_ to write his first mahara newsletter article on an upcoming 1.11 feature, the "artefact feedback on page" one funded by New York Institute of Technology +08:32:22 mingard: that would be fantastic. +08:32:32 BTW: mingard: are you in their facebook group? +08:32:47 they are posting lots of things right now. +08:32:48 curious to hear what Japanese people think of mahara, whether they have any different ideas from (for example) the ones raised at Mahara Hui +08:32:51 anitsirk: yes +08:33:29 That's why it's so great you have time to go because you are the only one i think from the core team who can understand japanese :-) +08:33:38 if there are others: please let us know. +08:33:48 well ... I can understand *some* japanese ;) +08:33:55 :-) +08:34:09 and I'll certainly let you know the results +08:34:17 thank you +08:34:22 alright. i think we are pretty much through with the meeting as i'm already at +08:34:22 mingard: more than the rest of us I guess ;) +08:34:36 #topic Next meeting and chair +08:34:36 Would thursday, 23 october 2014 at 8 UTC work? http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+37th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20141023T08 +08:35:10 works for me +08:35:16 fine with me +08:35:23 works for me +08:35:29 NZ note: it's 9 pm +08:35:30 oh, that will start 1 hour later than normal for us nz folks +08:35:38 fine with me +08:35:39 it's ok for me as well +08:35:44 works for me +08:35:52 nigelc_home? +08:36:11 Yeah +08:36:27 #info the 37th mahara developer meeting will take place on 23 october 2014 at 8 UTC. See http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+37th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20141023T08 for your timezone. +08:36:37 now to the important question: who want to chair the meeting? +08:37:04 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+37th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20141023T08 is the time of the 37th mahara dev meeting +08:37:12 no takers yet? +08:37:14 I can do it again +08:37:23 robertl_ thank you. +08:37:35 #info robertl_ will chair the next mahara dev meeting in october 2014 +08:37:45 #topic Any other business +08:38:18 ok. i have one. +08:38:19 #info the website https://mahara.org now has a section "Events". Let me know if you organize an event and want to have it appear there. +08:38:30 just realized, i don't yet have MOF on there. will remedy that in a few minutes. +08:39:02 does anybody else have any other business? +08:39:12 nope. +08:39:16 not I +08:39:18 no +08:39:22 nope +08:39:28 Nope +08:39:31 nope +08:39:35 no +08:39:41 then i guess this is a wrap. +08:39:51 the quickest i can recall... +08:40:00 good job anitsirk +08:40:07 thanks anitsirk +08:40:07 thank you very much, anzeljg, ghada1, robertl_, sonn_, mingard, tobiasz and nigelc_home for attending. +08:40:20 thanks for chairing! +08:40:25 thanks anitsirk for chairing +08:40:26 ghada1: it almost felt like rushing through, but we didn't have much to discuss. +08:40:33 thanks kristina +08:40:34 #endmeeting \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-09-25-08.05.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-09-25-08.05.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..e781ba25cd61e0717cf3de9550130b41fda9fff4 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-09-25-08.05.txt @@ -0,0 +1,147 @@ +=================== +#mahara-dev Meeting +=================== + + +Meeting started by anitsirk at 08:05:43 UTC. The full logs are available +at +http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-09-25-08.05.log.html +. + + + +Meeting summary +--------------- +* Welcome to the 36th Mahara developer meeting. Please state your name + and where you are from for the minutes. If you are saying something + very long, please put ".." on an empty line by itself to indicate your + statement is finished. (anitsirk, 08:05:46) +* anitsirk = Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington (anitsirk, + 08:06:03) +* tobiasz is Tobias Zeuch, developer at KIT, Karlsruhe, Germany + (tobiasz, 08:06:13) +* sonn_, Son Nguyen, Catalyst IT, Wellington (sonn_, 08:06:15) +* nigelc_home = Nigel Cunningham, Catalyst IT, Melbourne (nigelc_home, + 08:06:20) +* mingard = Jono Mingard, student at Gakushuin University, Japan + (mingard, 08:06:24) +* robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ (robertl_, + 08:06:36) +* ghada-laptop = Ghada El-Zoghbi, Catalyst IT, Sydney (ghada1, + 08:07:00) +* Items from last meeting (anitsirk, 08:07:21) + * Item 1 from last meeting: robert_ look into the reviews permissions + to see if the change author problem can be avoided and/or update the + wiki page with more info (anitsirk, 08:07:21) + * ACTION: robertl_ to look into the reviews permissions to see if the + change author problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page + with more info (anitsirk, 08:08:34) + * Item 2 from last meeting: robertl_ send email to +2 reviewers to + vote on Ghada to security team (anitsirk, 08:08:44) + * ghada was voted into the security team by the majority of the people + who could vote (anitsirk, 08:09:31) + * anzeljg is Gregor Anzelj, developer, translator from Gimnazija + Bezigrad, Slovenia (anzeljg, 08:09:33) + * Item 3 from last meeting: anzeljg to report back on how much more + work is needed to get the converting of old types to new + socialprofile types and whether import/export will still work + (anitsirk, 08:12:41) + * this item was resolved because the feature is now in RC1 for Mahara + 1.10 (anitsirk, 08:12:42) + * social profile functionality is looking good, but testing leap2 + export and import should be looked at closely during rc (anitsirk, + 08:16:14) + * the catalyst core team is going to get serious with automated + functional testing (anitsirk, 08:16:57) + +* Mahara 1.10 RC 1 (Kristina) (anitsirk, 08:18:49) + * RC 1 for Mahara 1.10 was released earlier today. See the + announcement. (anitsirk, 08:18:49) + * LINK: https://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=6463 + (anitsirk, 08:18:50) + * We invite everyone to give it a thorough testing. please report bugs + as usual as new items on the tracker. we will prioritize them and + see that we fix the important issues. (anitsirk, 08:18:50) + * according to the latest count, we have 35 new features. some small, + but some also quite involved. :-) thank you very much to everyone + who contributed. (anitsirk, 08:18:50) + * please test on different types of browsers, machines, devices, + databases, different previous versions of mahara... (anitsirk, + 08:22:13) + +* Mahara October 2014 Newsletter (Kristina) (anitsirk, 08:26:39) + * if you wish to publish an article in the next newsletter, i will + need to have the text tomorrow, friday, 26 september 2014. please + send it to newsletter@mahara.org it can be anything technical, event + announcement, pedagogical, ideas, questions, search for + collaboration (anitsirk, 08:26:39) + * ACTION: robertl_ to write his first mahara newsletter article on an + upcoming 1.11 feature, the "artefact feedback on page" one funded by + New York Institute of Technology (anitsirk, 08:32:14) + +* Next meeting and chair (anitsirk, 08:34:36) + * the 37th mahara developer meeting will take place on 23 october 2014 + at 8 UTC. See + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+37th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20141023T08 + for your timezone. (anitsirk, 08:36:27) + * LINK: + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Mahara+37th+Developer+Meeting&iso=20141023T08 + is the time of the 37th mahara dev meeting (anitsirk, 08:37:04) + * robertl_ will chair the next mahara dev meeting in october 2014 + (anitsirk, 08:37:35) + +* Any other business (anitsirk, 08:37:45) + * the website https://mahara.org now has a section "Events". Let me + know if you organize an event and want to have it appear there. + (anitsirk, 08:38:19) + +Meeting ended at 08:40:34 UTC. + + + + +Action Items +------------ +* robertl_ to look into the reviews permissions to see if the change + author problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more + info +* robertl_ to write his first mahara newsletter article on an upcoming + 1.11 feature, the "artefact feedback on page" one funded by New York + Institute of Technology + + + + +Action Items, by person +----------------------- +* robertl_ + * robertl_ to look into the reviews permissions to see if the change + author problem can be avoided and/or update the wiki page with more + info + * robertl_ to write his first mahara newsletter article on an upcoming + 1.11 feature, the "artefact feedback on page" one funded by New York + Institute of Technology +* **UNASSIGNED** + * (none) + + + + +People Present (lines said) +--------------------------- +* anitsirk (107) +* robertl_ (35) +* ghada1 (24) +* anzeljg (18) +* mingard (16) +* sonn_ (10) +* nigelc_home (10) +* tobiasz (5) +* maharameet (2) + + + + +Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 + +.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-10-23-08.05.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014-10-23-08.05.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..06900e3fc0c712eb8786ee0bbc6391316abeb285 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2014/mahara-dev.2014