<li><bclass="TOPIC">Items from last meeting</b><spanclass="details">(<ahref='mahara-dev.2013-09-05-08.01.log.html#l-19'>aarowlaptop</a>, 08:04:44)</span>
<oltype="a">
<li><spanclass="INFO">to see about changing the channel operators on
the #mahara-dev IRC room, and running his own copy of meetbot</span>
<li><bclass="TOPIC">Aaron to discuss switching to "asynchronous meetings"</b><spanclass="details">(<ahref='mahara-dev.2013-09-05-08.01.log.html#l-39'>aarowlaptop</a>, 08:10:22)</span>
<oltype="a">
<li><spanclass="INFO">kabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster
<li><bclass="TOPIC">Dajan improvements to the Mahara admin interface for installing/deleting plugins</b><spanclass="details">(<ahref='mahara-dev.2013-09-05-08.01.log.html#l-118'>aarowlaptop</a>, 08:28:08)</span>
<li><bclass="TOPIC">Aaron: Exceptional cases when an approved code reviewer may push code directly without another reviewer looking at it</b><spanclass="details">(<ahref='mahara-dev.2013-09-05-08.01.log.html#l-140'>aarowlaptop</a>, 08:34:04)</span>
<oltype="a">
<li><spanclass="INFO">1. Cherry-picking of already approved commits,
that touch relatively few lines of code, to other supported branches
<li><bclass="TOPIC">Update on the 1.8 release (Kristina)</b><spanclass="details">(<ahref='mahara-dev.2013-09-05-08.01.log.html#l-220'>aarowlaptop</a>, 09:07:01)</span>
<oltype="a">
<li><spanclass="INFO">Mahara 1.8 will have a lot of new features and
lots of new Javascript that can cause a number of regressions and
sticky points. Anyone who is interested in testing even only one
feature or a work flow would be adding a lot of value to making the
stable release a good one.</span><spanclass="details">(<a
<li><bclass="TOPIC">Deciding the time and chair for the next meeting</b><spanclass="details">(<ahref='mahara-dev.2013-09-05-08.01.log.html#l-249'>aarowlaptop</a>, 09:19:09)</span>
<oltype="a">
<li><iclass="itemtype">AGREED</i>: <spanclass="AGREED">The next dev
meeting will be on 3 Oct, 8pm UTC</span><spanclass="details">(<a
<aname="l-2"></a><spanclass="tm">08:01:15</span><spanclass="nk"><maharameet></span> Meeting started Thu Sep 5 08:01:15 2013 UTC. The chair is aarowlaptop. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
<aname="l-4"></a><spanclass="tm">08:01:31</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> Greetings one and all, welcome to the 27th Mahara dev meeting
<aname="l-5"></a><spanclass="tm">08:01:42</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> Please introduce yourself using the #info tag
<aname="l-6"></a><spanclass="tm">08:01:49</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ</span>
<aname="l-7"></a><spanclass="tm">08:02:03</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">aarowlaptop is Aaron Wells at Catalyst IT in Wellington, NZ</span>
<aname="l-8"></a><spanclass="tm">08:02:30</span><spanclass="nk"><robertl_></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">robertl_ is Robert Lyon, Catalyst IT in Wellington, NZ</span>
<aname="l-9"></a><spanclass="tm">08:02:47</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols at Lancaster University, UK (just)</span>
<aname="l-10"></a><spanclass="tm">08:02:55</span><spanclass="nk"><sonn_></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">sonn_ is Son Nguyen at Catalyst IT in Wellington, NZ</span>
<aname="l-11"></a><spanclass="tm">08:03:21</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> hi dobedobedoh. had feared we'd not have one of you guys here.
<aname="l-12"></a><spanclass="tm">08:03:38</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> I won't be so helpful for channel ops - I'll be in Perth in 3 weeks
<aname="l-13"></a><spanclass="tm">08:03:52</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> to visit or to stay?
<aname="l-14"></a><spanclass="tm">08:04:06</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> I'm moving to Perth to work for Moodle HQ
<aname="l-15"></a><spanclass="tm">08:04:21</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> congrats! i can visit you then in january during lca 2014 :-)
<aname="l-18"></a><spanclass="tm">08:04:40</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> i.e. you could come to the conference as well...
<aname="l-19"></a><spanclass="tm">08:04:44</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="topic">#topic </span><spanclass="topicline">Items from last meeting</span>
<aname="l-20"></a><spanclass="tm">08:05:21</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">to see about changing the channel operators on the #mahara-dev IRC room, and running his own copy of meetbot</span>
<aname="l-21"></a><spanclass="tm">08:05:34</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> I have not done either of those :)
<aname="l-22"></a><spanclass="tm">08:06:21</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> But now that I know that dobedobedoh runs the meetbot, I at least know to check with him a day or so before a meeting to make sure it's up and running
<aname="l-23"></a><spanclass="tm">08:06:47</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">dajan - Dominique-Alain Jan coordinator of the francophone community</span>
<aname="l-24"></a><spanclass="tm">08:07:12</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="cmd">#action </span><spanclass="cmdline">Aaron to see about changing the channel operators on the #mahara-dev IRC room</span>
<aname="l-25"></a><spanclass="tm">08:07:19</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> hi dajan
<aname="l-26"></a><spanclass="tm">08:07:20</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> I'll try to get that done before the next meeting
<aname="l-27"></a><spanclass="tm">08:07:23</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> Hi dajan!
<aname="l-28"></a><spanclass="tm">08:07:33</span><spanclass="nk"><sonn_></span> Hi dajan
<aname="l-29"></a><spanclass="tm">08:07:36</span><spanclass="nk"><anzeljg></span> hi
<aname="l-31"></a><spanclass="tm">08:07:52</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> Hi to all
<aname="l-32"></a><spanclass="tm">08:08:04</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> dobedobedoh and i chatted a bit whether i could change the chanops, but since i moved to bip, i had trouble getting my nick password and the one i think i have won't be taken. sorry that i can't help. :-(
<aname="l-33"></a><spanclass="tm">08:08:19</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> hi anzeljg. great that you could make it.
<aname="l-34"></a><spanclass="tm">08:08:51</span><spanclass="nk"><anzeljg></span> anitsirk hi ;)
<aname="l-35"></a><spanclass="tm">08:08:53</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> Hi anzeljg, can you introduce yourself with #info for the record? :)
<aname="l-36"></a><spanclass="tm">08:09:25</span><spanclass="nk"><anzeljg></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">anzeljg is Gregor Anzelj, translator & developer from Ljubljana, Slovenia</span>
<aname="l-38"></a><spanclass="tm">08:10:07</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> okay, next topic
<aname="l-39"></a><spanclass="tm">08:10:22</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="topic">#topic </span><spanclass="topicline">Aaron to discuss switching to "asynchronous meetings"</span>
<aname="l-40"></a><spanclass="tm">08:10:59</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> As suggested I have revamp the Developer Area/Developer Meetings page on the wiki, to have the last dev meeting first. ½ hour of happy copy paste.
<aname="l-41"></a><spanclass="tm">08:11:00</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> It was just something I was wondering about, because it seemed the turnout had been pretty low the past few dev meetings, whether we should continue with them. Although, now that I'm looking through the historical minutes I can see that we're more or less within the average
<aname="l-42"></a><spanclass="tm">08:11:05</span><spanclass="nk"><rkabalin></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">kabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, Lancaster University, Lancaster, UK</span>
<aname="l-43"></a><spanclass="tm">08:11:15</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> oh, that's who did that, thanks dajan
<aname="l-44"></a><spanclass="tm">08:11:16</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> Hi Ruslan
<aname="l-45"></a><spanclass="tm">08:11:20</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> Hi Greg
<aname="l-46"></a><spanclass="tm">08:11:33</span><spanclass="nk"><sonn_></span> Hi Ruslan
<aname="l-47"></a><spanclass="tm">08:12:42</span><spanclass="nk"><rkabalin></span> Hi everyone, sorry for being late :)
<aname="l-48"></a><spanclass="tm">08:13:01</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span><spanclass="hi">aarowlaptop:</span> do you still suggest moving to asynchronous meetings then or see how it goes?
<aname="l-49"></a><spanclass="tm">08:13:02</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> So anyhow, I think we're fine continuing with the IRC dev meetings as before
<aname="l-50"></a><spanclass="tm">08:13:11</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> I think we can keep with the status quo
<aname="l-51"></a><spanclass="tm">08:13:22</span><spanclass="nk"><robertl_></span> that sounds good to me
<aname="l-52"></a><spanclass="tm">08:13:42</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> We could reduce the frequency to 6 weekly?
<aname="l-53"></a><spanclass="tm">08:13:47</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> we perhaps just need to be more assiduous about getting them regularly scheduled, and getting the announcements out
<aname="l-54"></a><spanclass="tm">08:14:00</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">Keep developer meetings synchronously in irc.</span>
<aname="l-55"></a><spanclass="tm">08:14:01</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> I only remembered today because I saw anitsirk 's tweet
<aname="l-56"></a><spanclass="tm">08:14:19</span><spanclass="nk"><anzeljg></span> 6 weekly sounds fine. and announcements would be much apreciated...
<aname="l-57"></a><spanclass="tm">08:14:39</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> Maybe advertising them on a wider scale with other tools (e.g. twitter, G+,…)
<aname="l-58"></a><spanclass="tm">08:14:43</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> it's too bad Mahara doesn't have an event calendar to send out reminder emails
<aname="l-59"></a><spanclass="tm">08:14:48</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> normally, a reminder is sent the week before and then the day before. we missed this this time due to lots of work. sorry about that.
<aname="l-60"></a><spanclass="tm">08:15:03</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span><spanclass="hi">dajan:</span> i always tweet about them.
<aname="l-62"></a><spanclass="tm">08:16:10</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> and if i remember i also put an announcement in the mahara user group on FB. not this time because most people there are in the usa fast asleep when we made the announcement.
<aname="l-63"></a><spanclass="tm">08:16:36</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> they're just not dedicated enough ;)
<aname="l-64"></a><spanclass="tm">08:16:41</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> On my side I will advertise more about them to french dev in Switzerland, France and Canada. I have to put this in my calendar and do it.
<aname="l-66"></a><spanclass="tm">08:17:38</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span><spanclass="hi">aarowlaptop:</span> wanna move on to the next topic?
<aname="l-67"></a><spanclass="tm">08:17:44</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> I was just about to suggest that
<aname="l-68"></a><spanclass="tm">08:17:45</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> We ahve FB?
<aname="l-69"></a><spanclass="tm">08:18:00</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> Should we make the meetings less developer-focused?
<aname="l-70"></a><spanclass="tm">08:18:04</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> Do we have an official Facebook feed?
<aname="l-71"></a><spanclass="tm">08:18:19</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span><spanclass="hi">dobedobedoh:</span> there are a few FB groups / pages: mahara user group, the maharamoot de and the mahara page now as well. then there is the moodle-mahara meetup (down under)
<aname="l-72"></a><spanclass="tm">08:18:20</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="cmd">#idea </span><spanclass="cmdline">Should we make the meetings less developer-focused?</span>
<aname="l-73"></a><spanclass="tm">08:18:45</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> and there's the LinkedIn page too, right?
<aname="l-74"></a><spanclass="tm">08:18:45</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> the mahara user group has infrequent meetings in a webinar setting.
<aname="l-76"></a><spanclass="tm">08:19:06</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> what do they talk about at the Mahara User Group?
<aname="l-77"></a><spanclass="tm">08:19:20</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> Aaron, I don't think so. The forums on Mahara.org are already here for users. I don't think that IRC is something "lambda" users will engage, really.
<aname="l-78"></a><spanclass="tm">08:19:33</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> in the beginning, we wanted to have the dev meetings dev focused so that you devs could talk about tricky tech questions. but i guess that hasn't happened much.
<aname="l-79"></a><spanclass="tm">08:20:25</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> We do occasionally use them to discuss what direction we should go with the API's and stuff
<aname="l-80"></a><spanclass="tm">08:20:28</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span><spanclass="hi">aarowlaptop:</span> primarily implementation at institutions, examples, last year we had a student showcase; new features, potential collaborations (only started)
<aname="l-81"></a><spanclass="tm">08:20:35</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> but it does seem to mostly be about discussing community rules
<aname="l-82"></a><spanclass="tm">08:20:50</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> and community infrastructure
<aname="l-83"></a><spanclass="tm">08:21:33</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> I agree with dajan, though, end-users don't really use IRC
<aname="l-84"></a><spanclass="tm">08:21:36</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> the meetings are open for anyone to join. same with the MUG meetings
<aname="l-85"></a><spanclass="tm">08:21:53</span><spanclass="nk"><robertl_></span> could there be say one or two meetings a year where the focus is brainstorming new features?
<aname="l-86"></a><spanclass="tm">08:22:20</span><spanclass="nk"><robertl_></span> where all the focus is to bring new ideas to the meeting?
<aname="l-87"></a><spanclass="tm">08:22:25</span><spanclass="nk"><anzeljg></span> great idea!
<aname="l-89"></a><spanclass="tm">08:23:09</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span><spanclass="cmd">#idea </span><spanclass="cmdline">one or two meetings a year where the focus is brainstorming new features</span>
<aname="l-90"></a><spanclass="tm">08:23:18</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> Perhaps we could also do the occasional hangout?
<aname="l-91"></a><spanclass="tm">08:23:28</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> you mean as in google?
<aname="l-96"></a><spanclass="tm">08:23:58</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> I respect this
<aname="l-97"></a><spanclass="tm">08:24:00</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> it's a bit limiting because you need to have a G+ account - it excludes people more than irc does i think.
<aname="l-98"></a><spanclass="tm">08:24:27</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> bbb is a good idea :-) would need to do a bit of testing the connectino beforehand but that would be good to use
<aname="l-99"></a><spanclass="tm">08:24:29</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> Well, I think more people probably have Gmail or G+ accounts, than know how to use IRC
<aname="l-100"></a><spanclass="tm">08:24:39</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> we do have an instance to test with.
<aname="l-101"></a><spanclass="tm">08:24:46</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> I just wonder whether once in a while, it would be helpful to meet people a little more in the flesh
<aname="l-103"></a><spanclass="tm">08:25:08</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> I do see that, meeting people "in person", as one of the main goods of the dev meetings, actually
<aname="l-104"></a><spanclass="tm">08:25:11</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> that's what the mug meetings do. they use webinar software.
<aname="l-105"></a><spanclass="tm">08:25:40</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="cmd">#idea </span><spanclass="cmdline">Occasional dev meetings that use Google Hangouts or BBB or other webinar software, rather than just IRC</span>
<aname="l-106"></a><spanclass="tm">08:26:22</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> okay, let's move on to the next topic :)
<aname="l-107"></a><spanclass="tm">08:26:23</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span><spanclass="hi">aarowlaptop:</span> Can you add robertl_ 's idea about a different focus for some meetings?
<aname="l-108"></a><spanclass="tm">08:26:37</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span><spanclass="hi">dajan:</span> you already did that
<aname="l-109"></a><spanclass="tm">08:26:38</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> So lets organise the next dev meeting in NZ. I offer the beers.
<aname="l-110"></a><spanclass="tm">08:26:40</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> dajan got that one already :)
<aname="l-112"></a><spanclass="tm">08:27:02</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> I'm game. Wellington isn't so far from Perth in the grand scheme of things
<aname="l-113"></a><spanclass="tm">08:27:02</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> well yeah, free beer for anyone who attends a dev meeting in New Zealand, that's a given. ;)
<aname="l-114"></a><spanclass="tm">08:27:18</span><spanclass="nk"><robertl_></span> indeed it would be
<aname="l-115"></a><spanclass="tm">08:27:28</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> I can confirm the presence of free beer at such meetings I have attended
<aname="l-116"></a><spanclass="tm">08:27:28</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> free virtual beer for those abroad
<aname="l-117"></a><spanclass="tm">08:28:01</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> ANyway, moving on ;)
<aname="l-118"></a><spanclass="tm">08:28:08</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="topic">#topic </span><spanclass="topicline">Dajan improvements to the Mahara admin interface for installing/deleting plugins</span>
<aname="l-119"></a><spanclass="tm">08:29:03</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> Yes. I was on it. But I had to use my time to focus on the CAS development. So this task is on hold at that time. I will work on it in October.
<aname="l-120"></a><spanclass="tm">08:29:34</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="cmd">#action </span><spanclass="cmdline">Dajan to discuss improvements to the Mahara admin interface for installing/deleting plugins</span>
<aname="l-121"></a><spanclass="tm">08:29:36</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span><spanclass="hi">aarowlaptop:</span> instead of making this an action item, we should add it to the todo list on the wiki. i'll find the page
<aname="l-123"></a><spanclass="tm">08:29:40</span><spanclass="nk"><maharameet></span> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x2c3e310>
<aname="l-124"></a><spanclass="tm">08:29:47</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> About CAS, I am negotiating with the University of Troyes and Strasbourg to find the needed funding to develop and put CAS in core.
<aname="l-126"></a><spanclass="tm">08:30:22</span><spanclass="nk"><anzeljg></span> what is CAS if I may ask?
<aname="l-127"></a><spanclass="tm">08:30:34</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> It's a SSO standard
<aname="l-128"></a><spanclass="tm">08:30:39</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span><spanclass="cmd">#link </span><spanclass="cmdline">added to https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Current_Tasks</span>
<aname="l-129"></a><spanclass="tm">08:30:44</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> There's a third-party plugin for it in Mahara currently
<aname="l-130"></a><spanclass="tm">08:30:55</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> I will come back to you soon to discuss about cost/blue print, etc. But it takes time to meet all the people who can decide about money in France….
<aname="l-131"></a><spanclass="tm">08:31:08</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> by Patrick Pollet https://github.com/patrickpollet/mahara_plugin_auth_cas
<aname="l-132"></a><spanclass="tm">08:31:36</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> Yes. the third-party is Pollet's one. And it would be used as dev basis, I think.
<aname="l-133"></a><spanclass="tm">08:31:58</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> More detail about CAS later this month, I hope
<aname="l-134"></a><spanclass="tm">08:32:03</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> Yep, as we discussed when dajan was visiting here, it's about 90% of the way there
<aname="l-136"></a><spanclass="tm">08:32:46</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">dajan negotiating funding for the development work to get Patrick Pollet's CAS plugin into core</span>
<aname="l-137"></a><spanclass="tm">08:32:49</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> Both universities agreed to pay for it… So just the time to finalise the blue print...
<aname="l-139"></a><spanclass="tm">08:33:54</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> Okay, I think we can move on the next topic then
<aname="l-140"></a><spanclass="tm">08:34:04</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="topic">#topic </span><spanclass="topicline">Aaron: Exceptional cases when an approved code reviewer may push code directly without another reviewer looking at it</span>
<aname="l-141"></a><spanclass="tm">08:34:53</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> oh hi iarenaza :-)
<aname="l-142"></a><spanclass="tm">08:35:12</span><spanclass="nk"><iarenaza></span> hi, just show your tweet about the meeting :-)
<aname="l-143"></a><spanclass="tm">08:35:13</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> Hi iarenaza
<aname="l-144"></a><spanclass="tm">08:36:05</span><spanclass="nk"><iarenaza></span> I'm not much into Mahara devel these days but I thought I could pass by and have a peek
<aname="l-146"></a><spanclass="tm">08:36:18</span><spanclass="nk"><robertl_></span> aaron, there would need to be some solid guidelines around this otherwise it could get messy
<aname="l-147"></a><spanclass="tm">08:36:18</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> you are always welcome, iarenaza
<aname="l-148"></a><spanclass="tm">08:36:40</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> correct, robertl_, back to the topic ;)
<aname="l-149"></a><spanclass="tm">08:37:02</span><spanclass="nk"><anzeljg></span> iarenaza hi
<aname="l-150"></a><spanclass="tm">08:37:51</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> I've been admittedly cutting corners on the review process, occasionally pushing certain types of commits without getting a +2 on them from another reviewer in gerrit. Kristina thought it would be a good idea to go over this in the dev meeting.
<aname="l-151"></a><spanclass="tm">08:37:57</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> The situations would be:
<aname="l-152"></a><spanclass="tm">08:38:33</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">1. Cherry-picking of already approved commits, that touch relatively few lines of code, to other supported branches (if the cherry-pick applies cleanly)</span>
<aname="l-153"></a><spanclass="tm">08:39:05</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">2. Patches that only make changes to comments or documentation files but do not touch executable Mahara code</span>
<aname="l-154"></a><spanclass="tm">08:40:02</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">3. (Possibly) changes to development tools, like the pre-commit hooks and Makefiles</span>
<aname="l-155"></a><spanclass="tm">08:40:03</span><spanclass="nk"><rkabalin></span> those two sounds good to me
<aname="l-156"></a><spanclass="tm">08:40:47</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">4. Patches to revert already-approved patches which have caused major regressions</span>
<aname="l-157"></a><spanclass="tm">08:41:02</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> So, those would be the four situations
<aname="l-158"></a><spanclass="tm">08:42:16</span><spanclass="nk"><robertl_></span> with point 1. would the few lines that change need to be all in the one file or can it be across multiple files?
<aname="l-159"></a><spanclass="tm">08:42:19</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> I'm not an approved reviewer, but they sound ok to me because they are not pushing new bug fixes or new features through without someone else having looked at them first.
<aname="l-160"></a><spanclass="tm">08:43:27</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> I'd say across multiple files is fine. In practice, since we're only supposed to backport bug fixes and security fixes to the stable branches, not new features, the patches that are being cherry-picked to them will usually be pretty small anyway
<aname="l-161"></a><spanclass="tm">08:44:13</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> should "relatively few lines" be defined a bit more closely then as "relatively" is very interpretable?
<aname="l-162"></a><spanclass="tm">08:44:14</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> Though admittedly, item #1 there is the riskiest of them. Even when something applies cleanly, there's always the possibility that it will cause problems.
<aname="l-163"></a><spanclass="tm">08:44:53</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> we could add that the dev needs to verify it for sure and not only apply the patch.
<aname="l-164"></a><spanclass="tm">08:45:15</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> No, I think it'd be best to leave it up to just developer judgement as to what is "minor" versus "major".
<aname="l-165"></a><spanclass="tm">08:46:24</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> I think that's fair, every patch should be verified, even if it's just by the dev who pushes it
<aname="l-166"></a><spanclass="tm">08:46:58</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span><spanclass="cmd">#info </span><spanclass="cmdline">In the case of Item 1, the cherry-picked patches should be verified (this can be by the dev who is pushing them)</span>
<aname="l-167"></a><spanclass="tm">08:47:02</span><spanclass="nk"><rkabalin></span> I agree re dev judgement
<aname="l-168"></a><spanclass="tm">08:47:34</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> does anyone not agree with any of the suggestions?
<aname="l-169"></a><spanclass="tm">08:47:53</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> Actually I'm thinking of rescinding #3, about the dev tools :)
<aname="l-171"></a><spanclass="tm">08:48:41</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> but other than that, I agree with #s 1, 2, and 4
<aname="l-172"></a><spanclass="tm">08:49:29</span><spanclass="nk"><rkabalin></span> I agree with all of them, given that developer may decide on his/her own whether verification is required
<aname="l-174"></a><spanclass="tm">08:49:57</span><spanclass="nk"><sonn_></span> with all of them
<aname="l-175"></a><spanclass="tm">08:50:03</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> since we have 5 approved devs in the room, well 5 if robertl omes back, we can put it forward to vote on and make it a guideline.
<aname="l-176"></a><spanclass="tm">08:50:15</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span><spanclass="hi">sonn_:</span> 1,2 and 4 or 1, 2, 3 and 4?
<aname="l-177"></a><spanclass="tm">08:50:40</span><spanclass="nk"><dajan></span> I agree
<aname="l-178"></a><spanclass="tm">08:50:54</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span><spanclass="hi">rkabalin:</span> i think verification would be required for all of them, esp. #1 at least a smoketest.
<aname="l-179"></a><spanclass="tm">08:51:14</span><spanclass="nk"><sonn_></span> I agree with all of them 1, 2, 3, and 4
<aname="l-180"></a><spanclass="tm">08:51:20</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> 1,2,5 for me
<aname="l-181"></a><spanclass="tm">08:51:27</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> 1,2,4 even
<aname="l-183"></a><spanclass="tm">08:52:10</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> I believe that's a typo ;)
<aname="l-184"></a><spanclass="tm">08:52:13</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> 5 = anything minor against code which is unit tested and causes no regressions ;)
<aname="l-185"></a><spanclass="tm">08:52:31 </span><spanclass="nka">* dobedobedoh</span><spanclass="ac">adds things to the mix</span>
<aname="l-186"></a><spanclass="tm">08:52:34</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> do we have anything like that?
<aname="l-187"></a><spanclass="tm">08:52:41</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> We have a unit testing framework, but no tests
<aname="l-189"></a><spanclass="tm">08:52:56</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> We could do with some tests (please)
<aname="l-190"></a><spanclass="tm">08:52:56</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> well, it's a start
<aname="l-191"></a><spanclass="tm">08:53:11</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> it's on the backlog https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Current_Tasks
<aname="l-192"></a><spanclass="tm">08:53:14</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> I havent' checked it still works, but phpunit is there ish
<aname="l-194"></a><spanclass="tm">08:53:39</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> But, in reality, my preference is really only #5, but since we don't have that yet, 1,2,4 will suffice
<aname="l-195"></a><spanclass="tm">08:53:44</span><spanclass="nk"><robertl_></span> had to reset router, sorry bout that
<aname="l-196"></a><spanclass="tm">08:53:52</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> Sorry, 4 and 5 maybe
<aname="l-197"></a><spanclass="tm">08:54:49</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> So what do you say, robertl? cherry-picks, non-code changes, and emergency reverts?
<aname="l-198"></a><spanclass="tm">08:54:51</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span><spanclass="hi">dobedobedoh:</span> wouldn't we then actually also need automated functional testing?
<aname="l-199"></a><spanclass="tm">08:55:43</span><spanclass="nk"><robertl_></span> cherry-picks that merge cleanly sound fine and non code changes
<aname="l-200"></a><spanclass="tm">08:55:58</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> i've counted a couple that were in favor of #3 as well. so it might be easiest to look at each item individually and tally the agrees
<aname="l-201"></a><spanclass="tm">08:56:07</span><spanclass="nk"><robertl_></span> emergency reverts in some situations will be fine
<aname="l-203"></a><spanclass="tm">08:56:38</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span><spanclass="hi">dobedobedoh:</span> yes to what? my last or second last line? :-)
<aname="l-204"></a><spanclass="tm">08:57:00</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> or both?
<aname="l-205"></a><spanclass="tm">08:57:06</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span><spanclass="hi">anitsirk:</span> yes to automated functional testing
<aname="l-206"></a><spanclass="tm">08:57:13</span><spanclass="nk"><dobedobedoh></span> but also yes to tally
<aname="l-207"></a><spanclass="tm">08:58:40</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span><spanclass="hi">aarowlaptop:</span> do you want to do the tallying? you have the power to give the final numbers as chair and use the #agreed (if i remember correctly)
<aname="l-209"></a><spanclass="tm">09:00:02</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> so it's only approved reviewer's that are counted, right?
<aname="l-210"></a><spanclass="tm">09:00:53</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> I don't really know if we have a rule about these things, to be honest
<aname="l-211"></a><spanclass="tm">09:02:20</span><spanclass="nk"><anitsirk></span> i only know that approved reviewers can vote others to become approved, but don't remember that we had a situation like this here.
<aname="l-212"></a><spanclass="tm">09:03:04</span><spanclass="nk"><aarowlaptop></span> Looking back at the minutes, we have three devs voting for my new proposal of #124, and two devs voting for #1234. I think it'd be fair to say that numbers #124 are approved, because they have 5/5 approval, while #3 is not approved at this time because it only has 2/5
Andrew Robert Nicols <andrew@nicols.co.uk>