diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-11-08-19.31.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-11-08-19.31.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..3d1270a2ca6f116b6af259e33cd38310c2028f59 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-11-08-19.31.html @@ -0,0 +1,311 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev Meeting + + + + +

#mahara-dev Meeting

+ +Meeting started by richardm at 19:31:40 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Meeting summary

+
    +
  1. Meeting attendees (richardm, 19:31:47) +
      +
    1. richardm is Richard Mansfield, Catalyst, + NZ (richardm, + 19:31:55)
    2. +
    3. dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols - LUNS Ltd, + UK (dobedobedoh, + 19:32:09)
    4. +
    5. hughdavenport is Hugh Davenport, Catalyst IT, + NZ (hugh_home, + 19:32:11)
    6. +
    7. pxh is Piers Harding, Catalyst, NZ (pxh, + 19:32:12)
    8. +
    9. dan_p is Dan Poltawski - LUNS Ltd, UK + (dan_p, + 19:32:15)
    10. +
    11. rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, LUNS Ltd., + UK (rkabalin_, + 19:32:17)
    12. +
    13. dajan is Dominique-Alain from + Switzerland (dajan, + 19:32:20)
    14. +
    15. anzeljg is Gregor An�elj, developer and + translator (anzeljg, + 19:32:24)
    16. +
    17. anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner from Catalyst IT, + Wellington, NZ (anitsirk, + 19:32:40)
    18. +
    +
  2. +
  3. Items from previous meeting (richardm, 19:33:12) +
      +
    1. dan_p LUNS to investigate adding a new mahara + integration project to run selenium tests (richardm, + 19:33:22)
    2. +
    3. dobedobedoh to look at modifying release & + test running scripts to look for tests in the right places + (richardm, + 19:39:39)
    4. +
    5. ACTION: dobedobedoh + to create a bug for modifying release & test running scripts to + look for tests in the right places (richardm, + 19:41:47)
    6. +
    +
  4. +
  5. Starting the discussion about a possible date / month for the Mahara 1.5 release (Kristina) (richardm, 19:42:12) +
      +
    1. IDEA: I just wanted to + start the discussion about the release date as we are getting close + to the end of 2011 and more and more people ask about Mahara 1.5 and + soon will ask about when it's going to be released. As most of our + user base is in the northern hemisphere, I'd like to see a release + date in late spring so that the edu sector can upgrade over the + northern hemispheric summer as that seems to be the best and for + many only time to upgra (anitsirk, + 19:42:25)
    2. +
    3. votes for freeze dates: Dec: 3, Jan: 3, Feb: 1, + Mar: 3, Apr: 2 (richardm, + 20:03:45)
    4. +
    +
  6. +
  7. Handling security issues (Francois) (richardm, 20:06:18) +
      +
    1. click the security checkbox when reporting a + security issue on the tracker (richardm, + 20:08:05)
    2. +
    3. patches should go as attachments on that + private bug instead of gerrit (richardm, + 20:08:15)
    4. +
    5. don't discuss it on IRC, the forums, etc. just + email security@mahara.org (richardm, + 20:08:55)
    6. +
    7. ACTION: dobedobedoh + to look at the possibility of adding a hook to the Makefile to + reject patches with security bugs in the subject (richardm, + 20:13:08)
    8. +
    +
  8. +
  9. Future possibilities for flexible page designs - layouts and themes (Mike Kelly) (richardm, 20:13:57) +
      +
    1. waawaamilk reckons we should go for absolute + positioning for all objects, it's the way of the future (richardm, + 20:17:19)
    2. +
    3. http://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=3925 + (rkabalin_, + 20:20:07)
    4. +
    5. mikekelly_ will put together a test instance + with rows in views, or absolute positioning of all blocks, if he + gets time (richardm, + 20:26:59)
    6. +
    7. anzeljg is extending custom skins with Google + Web Fonts (richardm, + 20:29:10)
    8. +
    9. everyone wants more flexible page layouts in + mahara! (richardm, + 20:34:22)
    10. +
    +
  10. +
  11. Request for development docs (Dajan) (richardm, 20:39:26) +
      +
    1. it would be useful to have up to date docs to + talk to conference participants, but current info is unstructured + & difficult to assemble (richardm, + 20:42:29)
    2. +
    3. IDEA: by fmarier_ : + link to a list of upcoming features (constantly updated release + notes) in the quarterly newsletter to keep community informed about + these (anitsirk, + 20:48:10)
    4. +
    5. we'll try tagging all bugs that should go in + the release notes (richardm, + 20:56:22)
    6. +
    7. dajan to start adding feature tags to bugs in + the 1.5 milestone (richardm, + 21:04:04)
    8. +
    9. everyone to start adding feature tags when + setting bugs to fix committed (when it's a feature) (richardm, + 21:04:29)
    10. +
    11. ACTION: dajan to + report on tagging existing 1.5 features on the tracker (richardm, + 21:06:44)
    12. +
    +
  12. +
  13. Next meeting and chair (richardm, 21:06:53) +
      +
    1. IDEA: Wednesday 7th + December @ 07:30 UTC (07:30 GMT/20:30 NZDT) (richardm, + 21:07:05)
    2. +
    3. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20111207T0730 + (richardm, + 21:07:06)
    4. +
    5. hugh_home to chair the next meeting + (richardm, + 21:07:37)
    6. +
    7. IDEA: Tuesday 6th + December @ 07:30 UTC (07:30 GMT/20:30 NZDT) (richardm, + 21:08:25)
    8. +
    9. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20111206T0730 + (fmarier_, + 21:09:58)
    10. +
    11. next meeting will be Tuesday 6th December @ + 07:30 UTC, chaired by hugh_home (richardm, + 21:11:16)
    12. +
    +
  14. +
  15. Any other business (richardm, 21:12:01) +
  16. +
+

+ + + + +Meeting ended at 21:18:13 UTC +(full logs). + +

+ + + +

Action items

+
    +
  1. dobedobedoh to create a bug for modifying release & test running scripts to look for tests in the right places
  2. +
  3. dobedobedoh to look at the possibility of adding a hook to the Makefile to reject patches with security bugs in the subject
  4. +
  5. dajan to report on tagging existing 1.5 features on the tracker
  6. +
+

+ + + +

Action items, by person

+
    +
  1. dajan
      +
    1. dajan to report on tagging existing 1.5 features on the tracker
    2. +
  2. +
  3. dobedobedoh
      +
    1. dobedobedoh to create a bug for modifying release & test running scripts to look for tests in the right places
    2. +
    3. dobedobedoh to look at the possibility of adding a hook to the Makefile to reject patches with security bugs in the subject
    4. +
  4. +
+

+ + + +

People present (lines said)

+
    +
  1. richardm (108)
  2. +
  3. fmarier_ (83)
  4. +
  5. anitsirk (50)
  6. +
  7. dajan (46)
  8. +
  9. dobedobedoh (28)
  10. +
  11. hugh_home (27)
  12. +
  13. mikekelly_ (26)
  14. +
  15. waawaamilk (25)
  16. +
  17. dan_p (19)
  18. +
  19. pxh (13)
  20. +
  21. anzeljg (12)
  22. +
  23. rkabalin_ (8)
  24. +
  25. _anzeljg_ (7)
  26. +
  27. maharameet (6)
  28. +
  29. alberto (4)
  30. +
  31. elky (1)
  32. +
+

+ + + +Generated by MeetBot 0.1.4. + diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-11-08-19.31.log.html b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-11-08-19.31.log.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..4b1e0035fc0c4fc6aed8e8eb130f47771f9531e3 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-11-08-19.31.log.html @@ -0,0 +1,490 @@ + + + + +#mahara-dev log + + + + +
19:31:40 <richardm> #startmeeting
+19:31:40 <maharameet> Meeting started Tue Nov  8 19:31:40 2011 UTC.  The chair is richardm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
+19:31:40 <maharameet> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
+19:31:47 <richardm> #topic Meeting attendees
+19:31:52 <richardm> Please put #info in front of your name
+19:31:55 <richardm> #info richardm is Richard Mansfield, Catalyst, NZ
+19:32:09 <dobedobedoh> #info dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols - LUNS Ltd, UK
+19:32:11 <hugh_home> #info hughdavenport is Hugh Davenport, Catalyst IT, NZ
+19:32:12 <pxh> #info pxh is Piers Harding, Catalyst, NZ
+19:32:15 <dan_p> #info dan_p is Dan Poltawski - LUNS Ltd, UK
+19:32:17 <rkabalin_> #info rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, LUNS Ltd., UK
+19:32:20 <dajan> #info dajan is Dominique-Alain from Switzerland
+19:32:24 <anzeljg> #info anzeljg is Gregor An�elj, developer and translator
+19:32:40 <anitsirk> #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner from Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ
+19:33:05 <richardm> cool, good crowd, hopefully others will show up soon
+19:33:12 <richardm> #topic Items from previous meeting
+19:33:22 <richardm> #info dan_p LUNS to investigate adding a new mahara integration project to run selenium tests
+19:33:29 <richardm> dan_p: over to you!
+19:34:10 <dan_p> I'm afraid I still haven't done it
+19:34:47 <richardm> ok, should we move it to the current tasks wiki page?
+19:35:05 <fmarier_> is it not there already?
+19:35:17 <richardm> ah, maybe, I didn't check actually
+19:35:25 <dan_p> I'm also leaving LUNS in January, so will need to see if rkabalin or dobe want to do it
+19:35:42 <richardm> ah I see
+19:35:43 <dan_p> Or agree to move it back to tasks ;)
+19:35:56 <richardm> dan_p: are you leaving mahara as well as luns?
+19:36:21 <fmarier_> i guess that makes sense (moving it back to tasks). anybody is free to pick it back up if they want
+19:36:43 <dan_p> richardm: I hope not
+19:36:54 <anitsirk> :-)
+19:37:00 <rkabalin_> I may take that task over
+19:37:01 <dan_p> I am going to moodle hq
+19:37:10 <fmarier_> dan_p: cool!
+19:37:12 <hugh_home> nice
+19:37:15 <anitsirk> are you then also moving down under?
+19:37:18 <fmarier_> are you moving to Perth?
+19:37:21 <dan_p> So will hope to stay involved
+19:37:21 <pxh> dan_p: congrats
+19:37:27 <dan_p> Yes
+19:37:32 <anitsirk> cool.
+19:37:38 <fmarier_> wow, that'll be a big change
+19:37:51 <dan_p> (also I'm typing on an iPad, sorry!)
+19:37:52 <anzeljg> dan_p: congratulations
+19:38:13 <richardm> awesome
+19:38:40 <dajan> lucky guy, working in Aus. Perth is not as bad as that. You will see
+19:38:52 <richardm> #action richardm to move the new mahara integration project back to tasks if it's not already there
+19:39:02 <dan_p> Thanks everyone :)
+19:39:05 <fmarier_> richardm: you can take it out, i've already done it :)
+19:39:11 <richardm> #undo
+19:39:11 <maharameet> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x987fe6c>
+19:39:21 <richardm> cool
+19:39:38 <richardm> alright, next item
+19:39:39 <richardm> #info dobedobedoh to look at modifying release & test running scripts to look for tests in the right places
+19:39:57 <anitsirk> make it a topic, richardm then it shows up as such
+19:40:09 <richardm> ah ok
+19:40:10 <anitsirk> sorry.
+19:40:15 <dobedobedoh> Sadly I haven't had a chance to work on that yet. I was hoping to chat to elky or fmarier as to which scripts need updating
+19:41:07 <fmarier_> do we have a bug on the tracker to keep track of that? (that seems to be the more logical place to keep this item)
+19:41:16 <dobedobedoh> Not yet
+19:41:18 <dobedobedoh> I'll create one
+19:41:23 <richardm> ok
+19:41:47 <richardm> #action dobedobedoh to create a bug for modifying release & test running scripts to look for tests in the right places
+19:42:12 <richardm> #topic Starting the discussion about a possible date / month for the Mahara 1.5 release (Kristina)
+19:42:25 <anitsirk> #idea I just wanted to start the discussion about the release date as we are getting close to the end of 2011 and more and more people ask about Mahara 1.5 and soon will ask about when it's going to be released. As most of our user base is in the northern hemisphere, I'd like to see a release date in late spring so that the edu sector can upgrade over the northern hemispheric summer as that seems to be the best and for many only time to upgra
+19:42:30 <anitsirk> ..
+19:43:18 <fmarier_> so our current objective i think is to have releases every 6 to 12 months
+19:43:37 <fmarier_> which would mean 1.5 at the earliest in December and at the latest in June
+19:44:05 <richardm> December isn't too realistic
+19:44:08 <fmarier_> and based on previous releases, we should probably plan to freeze about 2 months before we want to release
+19:44:17 <anitsirk> i think a release in june is more feasible because then we can still put some more features into it because most will not update before that i think.
+19:44:30 <anzeljg> skin support?
+19:44:35 <fmarier_> so yeah, richard is right, the earliest would be February (if we were to freeze now)
+19:46:18 <fmarier_> personally, i don't really have a strong opinion
+19:46:29 <anitsirk> i would think a freeze in april like this year would be quite good as this gives us a bit more time for planning and finishing up work
+19:46:37 <richardm> i'm not sure we should always base releases on when school terms start
+19:46:38 <fmarier_> but it looks like there are a few features that would be nice to have
+19:46:50 <richardm> if we do that, we're always committing to 12 months
+19:47:36 <anitsirk> do you want to release more frequently?
+19:47:53 <pxh> I would like to get web services - if possible
+19:48:01 <richardm> the last two have been more like 9 months, right?  and we already have enough in master for a good release now if we were so inclined
+19:48:04 <pxh> in - that is
+19:48:27 <fmarier_> anitsirk: we want to retain the flexibility to adjust the release date I think
+19:49:11 <anitsirk> sure, but if we release now / soon then people will still only upgrade in july / august and miss the features we're putting into 1.6 between the release and then.
+19:49:26 <dajan> As a technician and according with what I see as consultant, just delivering a new release before the end/beginning of term is not ideal. People need times to install the new release test it, see how much work they have to plan for the update and then the training of their users/teachers. Having a new release, let say a couple of months before the end of term seems more reasonable to me.
+19:49:29 <dobedobedoh> If we're not moving to a time-based release strategy, what are our criteria for release?
+19:50:11 <fmarier_> dobedobedoh: basically the way we've done it is that we decide to freeze when we have the features we want
+19:50:16 <fmarier_> more or less
+19:50:27 <dan_p> Do you have the features now?
+19:50:37 <fmarier_> but of course, we can always decide to push some to the next release
+19:50:40 <dobedobedoh> Where's the list of features?
+19:50:42 <richardm> we also need a window when there's not too much other work on
+19:51:10 <pxh> christmas/new year is good for that
+19:51:57 <richardm> pxh: yes, usually. but last new year that didn't work out too well :)
+19:52:34 <richardm> dobedobedoh: the list of features is in the git logs :)
+19:52:53 <fmarier_> and on the 1.5.0 milestone on the tracker
+19:53:38 <dan_p> As dajan has said, its a mixed bag releasing too close to the term start/end anyway
+19:54:22 <fmarier_> I guess we don't have to decide today, but would it be fair to say that the freeze will happen sometime between Feb and Apr?
+19:54:24 <dan_p> so if there is enough for a release i'd say release ;-)
+19:54:38 <dan_p> freeze even
+19:55:06 <dobedobedoh> ditto
+19:55:07 <anitsirk> but in a way i don't think amking it too random is good because then people can't really plan
+19:55:10 <richardm> dan_p: that's my opinion too, but i'm not really too worried
+19:56:01 <fmarier_> anitsirk: that's an argument for time-based releases but nobody was really keen last time we discussed that as far as I recall
+19:56:02 <richardm> anitsirk: well, they shouldn't rely too much on our plans anyway.  we've certainly disappointed in the past
+19:56:33 <pxh> I would have thought it was more healthy for a project to release frequently - it gives it a sense of life
+19:56:40 <anitsirk> then we can only do better :-)
+19:56:44 <dan_p> pxh: agreed, that was my thought
+19:56:45 <dobedobedoh> Fair few bugs targetted for 1.5 not yet committed: http://goo.gl/jTQJk
+19:56:47 <richardm> pxh: i agree
+19:57:52 <fmarier_> ok, so quick poll: what month do you think we should freeze? (Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr)
+19:58:17 <dobedobedoh> Dec/Jan get my vote
+19:58:20 <anitsirk> march / april
+19:58:23 <rkabalin_> I vote for Apr
+19:58:26 * richardm votes to decide later
+19:58:28 <hugh_home> dec/jan
+19:58:28 <anzeljg> i would like to see skin support in - so i'd say mar
+19:58:31 <dajan> Feb/March
+19:58:47 <pxh> I'd like to get web services in if possible - the restructuring for core has been done but it needs to go through the acceptance process
+19:58:57 <dan_p> jan
+19:58:58 <pxh> if that were possible then dec/jan
+19:59:24 <dajan> Meaning that from Freeze to Release we must count about 2-3 months for beta testing and stabilization?
+19:59:25 <dobedobedoh> I think Jan is good for those of us involved in Moodle - gives us 1 month after their release for things to calm down first
+19:59:26 <fmarier_> pxh: i think you might want to vote for a later month then :)
+19:59:55 <fmarier_> dajan: approximately. it depends on what bugs we find in the frozen release branch
+20:00:11 <pxh> fmarier_: the longer I wait the longer I have to maintain two versions ...
+20:00:26 <fmarier_> true
+20:00:42 <dajan> In Europe is think it is important institutions can play with a final release on May the later
+20:01:14 <alberto> hi
+20:01:23 <anzeljg> hi
+20:01:24 <alberto> any people?
+20:01:25 <richardm> #info quick dodgy poll results for opinions on freeze date: dec/jan 4, feb/mar/april 3,
+20:01:26 <hugh_home> hi alberto
+20:01:26 <pxh> hi
+20:01:28 <dajan> or wether the later they will skip a release to the next one. My opinion.
+20:02:09 <anzeljg> feb/mar/apr 4 - my count
+20:02:24 <richardm> #undo
+20:02:24 <maharameet> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x98937ec>
+20:02:27 <alberto> i am working in customizing mahara, and i like to show only friends in the invite group form, can anybody help me?
+20:02:30 <richardm> #info quick dodgy poll results for opinions on freeze date: dec/jan 4, feb/mar/april 4
+20:02:50 <fmarier_> and i've got: Dec: 3, Jan: 3, Feb: 1, Mar: 3, Apr: 2
+20:03:19 <richardm> ok that's better
+20:03:23 <richardm> #undo
+20:03:23 <maharameet> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x989354c>
+20:03:26 <dajan> No pool tools in IRC :-)
+20:03:32 <anitsirk> too bad, dajan
+20:03:45 <richardm> #info votes for freeze dates: Dec: 3, Jan: 3, Feb: 1, Mar: 3, Apr: 2
+20:03:50 <alberto> i am late, but there is a log of this chat?
+20:03:54 <anitsirk> i guess, we'll have to update the meeting host guide to include a link to an easy poll ;-)
+20:03:59 <dobedobedoh> alberto: http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-11-08-19.31.log.txt
+20:04:00 <anzeljg> alberto, you've dropped in the middle of the meeting. please stay to the end or ask that question in the forum...
+20:04:02 <fmarier_> alberto: there will be at the end of the meeting
+20:04:34 <richardm> ok, shall we move on?
+20:04:43 <anitsirk> just a sec please
+20:05:12 <anitsirk> so to summarize: if somebody asks in a presentation etc., i could say that 1.5 will be released in the first half of 2012, right?
+20:05:36 <anitsirk> (without mentioning any concrete month)
+20:05:41 <fmarier_> s/will be released/is targeted/
+20:05:55 <richardm> anitsirk: i think that's highly likely, but yes, it's always good to promise nothing
+20:05:59 <fmarier_> we don't promise a release date, we promise a freeze date (once we have one)
+20:06:06 <anitsirk> sounds good, fmarier_ thanks
+20:06:18 <richardm> #topic Handling security issues (Francois)
+20:06:31 <fmarier_> right, that's going to be a quick one
+20:06:52 <fmarier_> but it's basically just a reminder that the process for filing security bugs is slightly different from normal ones
+20:07:09 <fmarier_> you can put them on the tracker if you click the "this bug is a security bug" checkbox
+20:07:17 <fmarier_> and it will be hidden from the public
+20:07:34 <fmarier_> but if you are working on fixing it, patches should go as attachments on that private bug instead of gerrit
+20:07:46 <fmarier_> we review the patches manually on the tracker
+20:07:59 <fmarier_> and they get pulled in by the release script when we release
+20:08:05 <richardm> #info click the security checkbox when reporting a security issue on the tracker
+20:08:15 <richardm> #info patches should go as attachments on that private bug instead of gerrit
+20:08:30 <fmarier_> if you're unsure about what to do with it, don't discuss it on IRC, the forums, etc. just email security@mahara.org
+20:08:41 <fmarier_> ..
+20:08:55 <richardm> #info don't discuss it on IRC, the forums, etc. just email security@mahara.org
+20:09:15 <fmarier_> that lack of initial transparency is there because sometimes it takes a while to fix an issue
+20:09:35 <fmarier_> for example if we have to go through the entire codebase to make sure that the same problem doesn't exist elsewhere
+20:09:39 <fmarier_> ..
+20:10:05 <rkabalin_> and be careful with make push
+20:10:32 <dobedobedoh> Is there any benefit to adding a hook to the Makefile to reject patches with security bugs in the subject without being from a member of the security team?
+20:10:56 <fmarier_> dobedobedoh: if you can think of a good way to do this, sure
+20:11:03 <dobedobedoh> I'll have a ponder
+20:11:05 <fmarier_> but i guess it's hard to get that from the commit message
+20:11:15 <fmarier_> unless there's a CVE number in there
+20:11:26 <fmarier_> but we usually get CVE numbers pretty late in the process
+20:11:27 <fmarier_> ..
+20:11:40 <dobedobedoh> But most commits include a bug number at some point within them
+20:12:28 <dobedobedoh> Anyhoo, I'll volunteer to have a go at playing with the Makefile
+20:12:42 <richardm> ok, cool
+20:13:08 <richardm> #action dobedobedoh to look at the possibility of adding a hook to the Makefile to reject patches with security bugs in the subject
+20:13:27 <richardm> any more on this topic?
+20:13:51 <fmarier_> not from me
+20:13:57 <richardm> #topic Future possibilities for flexible page designs - layouts and themes (Mike Kelly)
+20:14:04 <mikekelly_> Hi all
+20:14:09 <anzeljg> hi mike
+20:14:12 <richardm> hi mikekelly_
+20:14:13 <dajan> hi
+20:14:22 <hugh_home> hey
+20:14:25 <mikekelly_> I hope this is the right forum to discuss this!
+20:14:25 <anitsirk> hi mikekelly_
+20:14:40 <richardm> sure
+20:14:46 <mikekelly_> I'm from an art and design institution, and the users are keen to have more control over page design in Mahara. They want to have magazine-type page layouts, rather than just column-based. (e.g. 1 long row, another row split into 3 cols, then another long row.) I'm wondering how we might push this forward with the dev community. We have some money but not lots and lots. We would prefer to see a change like this happening in core
+20:15:14 <waawaamilk> hello world
+20:15:31 * waawaamilk has a thought on flexible page layouts
+20:15:36 <anitsirk> hi waawaamilk
+20:15:37 <mikekelly_> I'm also not sure what the status is of custom themes, so any info on that would be great.
+20:15:54 <anzeljg> I also want to add some info
+20:16:13 <waawaamilk> you guys should just go to absolute positioning for all objects
+20:16:24 <waawaamilk> browser support is now pretty much assured
+20:16:35 <waawaamilk> and it gives far more precise and creative possibilities
+20:16:42 <waawaamilk> not to mention, the drag & drop is way easier
+20:17:06 <hugh_home> how would that work with window resizing?
+20:17:07 <waawaamilk> if people want columns, just provide a snap-to-grid effect
+20:17:13 <mikekelly_> One factor to consider is LEAP2A
+20:17:19 <richardm> #info waawaamilk reckons we should go for absolute positioning for all objects, it's the way of the future
+20:17:30 <waawaamilk> hur
+20:17:39 <dobedobedoh> I'd also like to see some options for pages with row separation
+20:18:02 <mikekelly_> Did anyone see my forum thread on this?
+20:19:05 <richardm> mikekelly_: yes, i noticed it, but didnt have any bright ideas at the time
+20:19:08 <mikekelly_> I wondered about adding rows to the page, each with a specified column number...
+20:19:11 <waawaamilk> window resizing: my initial thought is that you shouldn't be allowing too much width for resizing - you gain nothing by having the windows so flexible that people can destroy the layout by making it too wide _or_ too narrow
+20:19:32 <mikekelly_> Seemed like an incremental approach rather than completely reinventing what is already there.
+20:19:53 <dobedobedoh> Having a way of adding a row of columns seems the way forward
+20:20:07 <rkabalin_> #link http://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=3925
+20:20:22 <mikekelly_> Thanks rkabalin
+20:21:12 <waawaamilk> fwiw, that sounds like it will result in more complication for the end user
+20:22:06 <richardm> so does anyone feel like volunteering to hack this together & try it out? either absolute positioning or rows?
+20:22:38 <hugh_home> it could be fun, but would need to find some time
+20:23:04 <mikekelly_> I can contribute some time on this but I'm not so up to speed on your dev practices
+20:24:13 <richardm> mikekelly_: i guess some kind of proof of concept on a test site would be a good start
+20:24:17 <dajan> In a enduser perspective (pupil, students) I think the rows approach is more accessible and more easy to manage than totally free relative positioning bucks.
+20:24:54 <mikekelly_> richardm - yes I'm sure I could put something together like that, time permitting
+20:25:28 <richardm> ok, after that it's really a matter of learning git & pushing your patches through gerrit yourself, or convincing/bribing a core developer to do it
+20:25:49 <mikekelly_> Yes, I'm using git already
+20:25:49 <anzeljg> it is a hard task...
+20:25:53 <fmarier_> we can certainly help with that last part
+20:26:00 <anzeljg> bribing i mean ;)
+20:26:08 <mikekelly_> : )
+20:26:50 <mikekelly_> waawaamilk  I am not completely sold on the rows approach but it doesn't need to appear complex to the end user.
+20:26:57 <dajan> I try to keep in mind what is a portfolio for. It is a reflexive tool to provide evidence of learning (formal and informal), for me it is not a web page builder tool. But I agree that we need a bit more flexibility in arranging the information on the pages.
+20:26:59 <richardm> #info mikekelly_ will put together a test instance with rows in views, or absolute positioning of all blocks, if he gets time
+20:27:14 <mikekelly_> At the simplest level they could just have more options on the layout page.
+20:27:31 <anzeljg> It is a bit out of this toppic, but I just wanted to share tis
+20:27:38 <waawaamilk> one good reason for going a different way is that you can throw out all that horrid view code I wrote with mochikit in 2007
+20:27:42 <mikekelly_> dajan - agreed, but for a graphic designer form is content
+20:27:46 <waawaamilk> or at least, you can solidly deprecate it
+20:28:17 <_anzeljg_> I'm extending custom skins to include support for Google Web Fonts. This should give more design possibilities. A qucik screenshot of the work in progress: http://goo.gl/l1Bnl
+20:28:18 <waawaamilk> and yeah, I agree with mikekelly_ over dajan - snap to grid can give you more rigid layouts if you want, while allowing art students to go to town like they would in a real portfolio
+20:29:10 <richardm> #info anzeljg is extending custom skins with Google Web Fonts
+20:29:24 <dan_p> If doing something more modern, I recommend looking at modernizr and polyfills..
+20:29:34 <mikekelly_> Nice anzeljg - we have added web fonts to our Mahara too, not Google Fonts yet though
+20:29:35 <waawaamilk> also, regarding the variable width thing - it occurs to me that it won't matter too much, people on wide screens might make a wideish portfolio which would appear with a scrollbar on narrower screens
+20:29:39 <waawaamilk> no big deal
+20:29:56 <waawaamilk> if you set a min and max width you can control the amount of "crazy" that this might otherwise result in
+20:30:23 <dajan> mikekelly_: I agree. I also teach in a school of art in Lausanne. But I want Mahara remain simple to use to kids as for grown up arties
+20:30:47 <waawaamilk> dajan: you could go the absolute way without throwing out the pre-set templates
+20:31:06 <waawaamilk> if it were done in a clever enough way :)_
+20:31:16 <mikekelly_> dajan: yes. I like simple surface but depth for those who want it.
+20:32:18 <dajan> waawaamilk: in that case. Yes of course. We need more freedom, but having preset is important for basic users. Thanks to point that out. The two features can be combined. Don't know why I challenged one against the other so far. Sorry
+20:32:26 <waawaamilk> anyways, I assume the one that will be done is the one that someone bothers to code, just thought I'd float that idea :)
+20:32:34 * dobedobedoh thinks we need some mockups too
+20:32:38 <mikekelly_> I would love to try an absolute position version if someone could put it together
+20:32:45 <waawaamilk> dajan: all good, I don't want to hate on your opinion :)
+20:33:09 <fmarier_> waawaamilk: indeed and i'm looking forward to seeing your version ;)
+20:33:15 <waawaamilk> herp derp
+20:33:23 <waawaamilk> I was just doing something similar for buzzumi
+20:33:26 <waawaamilk> only one block though
+20:33:50 <waawaamilk> it's so easy with jquery + plugins these days, you'd get rid of so much code
+20:34:22 <richardm> #info everyone wants more flexible page layouts in mahara!
+20:34:33 <richardm> ok, any more comments on this topic?
+20:34:42 <dajan> I am ok
+20:35:05 <waawaamilk> not from I
+20:35:06 <mikekelly_> Would anyone be able to update me on custom skins
+20:35:08 <mikekelly_> ?
+20:35:45 <fmarier_> mikekelly_: anzeljg's patch hasn't been reviewed yet
+20:36:05 <_anzeljg_> i've created option for users to create their own skins for views in 1.3
+20:36:27 <mikekelly_> Do you think it will be integrated into 1.5
+20:36:28 <fmarier_> we're still hoping to do it (and are looking for funding for it) but can't promise anything
+20:36:32 <_anzeljg_> the skins are created with web forms
+20:36:59 <_anzeljg_> mike, please contact me tomorrow about this...
+20:37:10 <mikekelly_> OK, will do.
+20:37:21 <_anzeljg_> gregor dot anzelj at gmail dot com
+20:37:27 <richardm> #topic Request for development docs (Dajan)
+20:37:28 <fmarier_> mikekelly_: that depends on two things: someone taking the time to go through it, and also when the freeze for 1.5 happens
+20:37:47 <fmarier_> it would be nice if it were though
+20:37:54 <fmarier_> lots of people are asking for it
+20:37:54 <dajan> Is skins and the previous subject not linked ?
+20:37:54 <mikekelly_> OK Gregor
+20:38:06 <richardm> #undo
+20:38:06 <maharameet> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x989086c>
+20:38:15 <richardm> sorry about that
+20:38:58 <richardm> any more under flexible page layouts and/or skins?
+20:39:10 <_anzeljg_> not from me
+20:39:12 <mikekelly_> Not here
+20:39:15 <dajan> Not from me
+20:39:23 <richardm> ok, lets go to the next one
+20:39:26 <richardm> #topic Request for development docs (Dajan)
+20:40:17 <dajan> Yes. My request was about the continuous development of the docs. This is important to me to be able to answer to conferences participant about what happens next.
+20:40:44 <dajan> At the moment it is possible to have an idea of what is going on, by translating the strings (it's what I do)
+20:40:47 <dajan> Reading the git
+20:40:56 <dajan> Reading the tracker
+20:41:29 <anitsirk> ideally, the user documentation is developed in parallel to when features are targeted for 1.5. unfortunately, i'm still on the documentation of 1.4 and lagging behind (i think i need a couple of weeks off to have it done)
+20:41:33 <dajan> But the information is unstructured and difficult to assemble for Mahara advocate who want to speak about for coming features.
+20:41:56 <dan_p> dajan: Are you talking about a roadmap?
+20:42:29 <richardm> #info it would be useful to have up to date docs to talk to conference participants, but current info is unstructured & difficult to assemble
+20:42:35 <fmarier_> dan_p: i think he's talking about new features that are done (as opposed to just planned)
+20:42:38 <dajan> I look regularly at the roadmap, but it seems to me it is not up-to-date and not updated on the regular flow of development
+20:42:45 <dobedobedoh> Our current roadmap ends at 1.4: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Roadmap
+20:43:03 <anitsirk> i think the page specifications in development https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development gives some idea about what will be in 1.5. it means though that it must be updated when something is implemented. however, i think mostly big features are on this list.
+20:43:17 <dajan> fmarier: yes I do. I speak about the features they are to be tested in the dev version.
+20:43:31 <fmarier_> the roadmap should be more of less ignored as it's out of date
+20:43:37 <anitsirk> there is no real roadmap as it depends very much who is willing to sponsor new features for mahara. they get then put into the new release.
+20:44:27 <fmarier_> so in a way what you'd like to see is the release notes for 1.5.0, assuming we were updating them as we're adding new features, right ?
+20:44:43 <dajan> anitsirk: I am planning a training in Rennes in two weeks and will present also already done features of the 1.5dev. So I have a start if we want some docs about it.
+20:45:20 <dajan> fmarier_: I am happy to help on this.
+20:45:46 <anitsirk> sounds great, dajan.
+20:46:19 <fmarier_> one thing that would be good to do as well is to perhaps link to that page from the newsletter, mentioning the new features that were added since the last newsletter
+20:46:42 <anitsirk> that can be done easily, fmarier_
+20:46:42 <fmarier_> (not trying to add more work on anitsirk's plate, just mentioning / linking to stuff that's written already)
+20:46:42 <dajan> fmarier_: good idea
+20:47:05 <anitsirk> hehe. thanks. no linking would be easy and i could also write a short text if i don't have enough articles
+20:47:52 <richardm> so how are we going to compile the feature list from the tracker/git?
+20:48:10 <anitsirk> #idea by fmarier_ : link to a list of upcoming features (constantly updated release notes) in the quarterly newsletter to keep community informed about these
+20:48:19 * _anzeljg_ has to go... bye all.
+20:48:24 <anitsirk> bye anzeljg
+20:48:29 <dajan> bye my friend
+20:48:31 <hugh_home> see you
+20:48:32 <richardm> bye _anzeljg_
+20:48:34 <fmarier_> bye _anzeljg_ thanks for coming
+20:48:35 <pxh> bye
+20:49:57 <anitsirk> dajan: shall we chat or skype about the documentation? i read your email.
+20:50:30 <richardm> what if add some tag on the bug reports that are for new important features?
+20:50:37 <dajan> happy to do that. But maybe not today, I have a lot of school work to finish before the end of the evening.
+20:50:52 <anitsirk> dajan: that's fine. let's take it off-meeting to find a time
+20:51:19 <hugh_home> we could start adding [FEATURE ....] or [BUG ....] to the commit line?
+20:51:29 <fmarier_> anitsirk: thank you for not saying "let's take it offline" ;)
+20:51:31 <hugh_home> as is done in other projects
+20:51:52 <fmarier_> hugh_home: that's a bit noisy, a feature can consist of a ton of commits (and/or reverts of those)
+20:51:58 <anitsirk> richardm: it's not just the important features. for the user documentation we would need all new features. sometimes finding them is not so easy esp. if there are only subtle changes. thus, having a list with all new features would be great. but that might be possible in launchpad, right?
+20:52:07 <hugh_home> yeh, that makes sense
+20:52:11 <fmarier_> i think something to do with the tracker is likely to be more relevant
+20:52:16 <fmarier_> or easier to handle anyways
+20:52:29 <hugh_home> I guess if the tracker has all the features set to wishlist
+20:52:33 <richardm> anitsirk: i'm trying to think of a tag on bugs that would alert the person who's compiling the list
+20:52:48 <fmarier_> the fact that we have all of the new features on the tracker now does make that task quite a bit easier i think
+20:52:48 <hugh_home> then we can do some magic to get features from bug no in commit msg
+20:52:54 <fmarier_> because you can ignore git
+20:53:12 <hugh_home> ah yes, silly me, you don't need git to do it :P
+20:53:17 <anitsirk> mhh. sure. tag sounds good. it's another possibility to find something easier and it's easy enough to add. :-)
+20:54:01 <richardm> 'releasenotes', maybe?
+20:54:19 <dajan> lets have a try with the tag. Happy with it
+20:54:24 <anitsirk> but then you would at some point come up with the notes for 1.5 and 1.6
+20:54:30 <hugh_home> sounds good
+20:54:46 <anitsirk> i think it should be releasenotes15 or so to distinguish the releases
+20:54:47 <fmarier_> anitsirk: the "fix released" bugs are hidden by default
+20:55:07 <fmarier_> so you're not going to have releasnotes-tagged bugs for both 1.5 and 1.6 at the same time
+20:55:12 <richardm> you can probably search for bugs by tag and milestone
+20:55:34 <dajan> richardm: yes I think you can
+20:55:35 <anitsirk> ok. that sounds good then
+20:56:13 <dajan> I personally like the [FEATURE] or [NEW-FEATURE] tag
+20:56:22 <richardm> #info we'll try tagging all bugs that should go in the release notes
+20:56:59 <fmarier_> richardm: i'd say "new features" instead of "bugs"
+20:57:07 <richardm> ah true
+20:57:34 <richardm> ok, let's make it a feature tag
+20:57:40 <dajan> but this is the bug-tracker, right. So richardm you are forgiven
+20:58:51 <fmarier_> dajan: yeah the line between a bug and a feature is sometimes blurry :)
+20:59:10 <hugh_home> :D
+20:59:16 <hugh_home> true that
+20:59:17 <dajan> fmarier_: correct one add many :-)
+20:59:50 <dobedobedoh> We seem to have lost our chair!
+21:00:09 <mikekelly_> I have to leave now - bye everyone and thanks for the feedback.
+21:00:10 <dajan> Houston we have a problem. We lost the leader
+21:00:24 <dobedobedoh> mikekelly: Thanks for joining us :)
+21:00:32 <richardm> sorry about that
+21:00:33 <pxh> bye
+21:00:39 <fmarier_> bye mikekelly_
+21:00:42 <richardm> bye mikekelly_
+21:00:50 <dajan> bye mikekelly
+21:01:14 <richardm> so where were we?
+21:01:27 <dajan> Shall we go this way. I also have to leave you soon.
+21:01:36 <richardm> did anyone volunteer to go through & add the feature tags for the 1.5 milestone?
+21:02:09 <fmarier_> it sounds like dajan  already has a list for the new features so far, so i guess we only need to tag the new bugs for 1.5
+21:02:17 <fmarier_> "new features", even :)
+21:02:27 <dajan> Happy to give a hand, but I don't have the right to access the git at this level. Do I?
+21:02:46 <richardm> dajan: it's just launchpad i think
+21:02:54 <fmarier_> dajan: anybody can add tags to the tracker
+21:03:31 <dajan> Cool. I will start to do that by the end next week. Ok with you?
+21:03:39 <richardm> ok, great
+21:03:52 <fmarier_> but i guess whoever marks the bug as fix committed can add the tag too
+21:04:04 <richardm> #info dajan to start adding feature tags to bugs in the 1.5 milestone
+21:04:18 <dajan> What is the tag we will use?
+21:04:20 <anitsirk> and probably should so that it's done in one go and doesn't get forgotten
+21:04:29 <richardm> #info everyone to start adding feature tags when setting bugs to fix committed (when it's a feature)
+21:04:59 <dajan> We have to _define_ this tag before all
+21:05:09 <richardm> dajan: you can choose, seeing as you're doing the work!
+21:05:45 <dajan> Fine. Willco
+21:06:07 <dajan> Report about this in the next meeting
+21:06:15 <richardm> ok
+21:06:44 <richardm> #action dajan to report on tagging existing 1.5 features on the tracker
+21:06:53 <richardm> #topic Next meeting and chair
+21:07:05 <richardm> #idea Wednesday 7th December @ 07:30 UTC (07:30 GMT/20:30 NZDT)
+21:07:06 <richardm> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20111207T0730
+21:07:14 <hugh_home> i could be keen to chair
+21:07:37 <richardm> #info hugh_home to chair the next meeting
+21:07:39 <anitsirk> richardm: that doesn't work. we'll have zoodoo
+21:07:39 <richardm> thanks hugh_home
+21:07:45 <dobedobedoh> Wednesdays aren't so good for us any more :( meeting clash
+21:07:48 <richardm> anitsirk: good point
+21:07:50 <fmarier_> richardm: bad date (zoodoo)
+21:07:51 <hugh_home> yeh i was just checking when zoodoo was
+21:07:55 <richardm> how about Tuesday?
+21:08:02 <dobedobedoh> Tuesdays wfm
+21:08:11 <anitsirk> for those non-catalyst people: zoodoo is our annual christmas party held in the wellington zoo :-)
+21:08:25 * dobedobedoh was wondering!
+21:08:25 <richardm> #idea Tuesday 6th December @ 07:30 UTC (07:30 GMT/20:30 NZDT)
+21:08:44 <anitsirk> +1
+21:08:55 <dobedobedoh> +1
+21:09:06 <rkabalin_> +1
+21:09:07 <dajan> -1
+21:09:23 <hugh_home> wfm
+21:09:31 <dan_p> +1
+21:09:34 <dajan> Ok will try +1 but not sure yet
+21:09:47 <rkabalin_> anitsirk: good to know, the first link I found was http://www.zoodoo.co.nz :))
+21:09:58 <fmarier_> #link http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20111206T0730
+21:10:02 <hugh_home> ha, i remember that stuff :P
+21:10:22 <anitsirk> lol
+21:10:24 <richardm> yeah i don't know why they changed the spelling from zoodo to zoodoo
+21:10:25 <elky> Oh drat, sorry I'm late, I forgot all about it
+21:10:35 <dajan> I have to go now. Thanks to all of you. anitsirk: will contact you by email to schedule a Skype call. Cheers all. Happy Mahara since then.
+21:10:37 <fmarier_> rkabalin_: nice :)
+21:10:51 <anitsirk> sounds good, dajan. have a nice evening
+21:11:06 <hugh_home> see you
+21:11:08 <dajan> Marking! Not a NICE evening.
+21:11:13 <hugh_home> hehe
+21:11:16 <richardm> #info next meeting will be Tuesday 6th December @ 07:30 UTC, chaired by hugh_home
+21:11:17 <dobedobedoh> General info: This is our 12th meeting
+21:11:18 <hugh_home> fun stuff
+21:11:30 <dobedobedoh> We've been doing these for a year now!
+21:11:44 <hugh_home> :D
+21:11:48 <fmarier_> hugh_home: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/Chair_Duties (you've probably seen it already)
+21:12:01 <richardm> #topic Any other business
+21:12:02 <hugh_home> yup, will have another read though :P
+21:12:27 <anitsirk> richardm: no other business from my end
+21:12:30 <richardm> alberto: you had an item to add?
+21:13:46 <richardm> there were also a couple of left over items from zzmonty from the last meeting about the wiki
+21:14:18 <fmarier_> richardm: she's not here though
+21:14:23 <richardm> yeah i think we can drop those now
+21:14:52 <anitsirk> put it on the todo list though
+21:15:14 <richardm> anitsirk: which todo list? the next agenda or current tasks?
+21:15:22 <anitsirk> current tasks
+21:15:43 <fmarier_> well that list is for clearly-defined things
+21:15:49 <fmarier_> her items haven't been discussed yet
+21:15:50 <richardm> i don't think we actually wanted to do at least one of those things
+21:16:25 <anitsirk> then i guess it will be up to her to take it up in amother meeting
+21:17:08 <rkabalin_> I have to leave, thanks everyone, thanks richardm for chairing
+21:17:13 <richardm> yeah, if she can make it to a future meeting, they can be added to the agenda at that point
+21:17:21 <richardm> thanks rkabalin_
+21:17:26 <fmarier_> see you rkabalin_
+21:17:27 <anitsirk> bye rkabalin_
+21:17:29 <pxh> rkabalin_: bye
+21:17:31 <richardm> ok i think we're done
+21:17:39 <richardm> any other comments?
+21:17:45 <anitsirk> nope
+21:17:57 <hugh_home> nope, thanks for chairing !
+21:18:05 <fmarier_> thanks richardm
+21:18:09 <dobedobedoh> Thanks for chairing richardm :)
+21:18:13 <richardm> #endmeeting
+ diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-11-08-19.31.log.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-11-08-19.31.log.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..92d3bb1531942b5c7640cbb2b7443ba0c6e3e332 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-11-08-19.31.log.txt @@ -0,0 +1,463 @@ +19:31:40 #startmeeting +19:31:40 Meeting started Tue Nov 8 19:31:40 2011 UTC. The chair is richardm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. +19:31:40 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. +19:31:47 #topic Meeting attendees +19:31:52 Please put #info in front of your name +19:31:55 #info richardm is Richard Mansfield, Catalyst, NZ +19:32:09 #info dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols - LUNS Ltd, UK +19:32:11 #info hughdavenport is Hugh Davenport, Catalyst IT, NZ +19:32:12 #info pxh is Piers Harding, Catalyst, NZ +19:32:15 #info dan_p is Dan Poltawski - LUNS Ltd, UK +19:32:17 #info rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, LUNS Ltd., UK +19:32:20 #info dajan is Dominique-Alain from Switzerland +19:32:24 #info anzeljg is Gregor An�elj, developer and translator +19:32:40 #info anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner from Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ +19:33:05 cool, good crowd, hopefully others will show up soon +19:33:12 #topic Items from previous meeting +19:33:22 #info dan_p LUNS to investigate adding a new mahara integration project to run selenium tests +19:33:29 dan_p: over to you! +19:34:10 I'm afraid I still haven't done it +19:34:47 ok, should we move it to the current tasks wiki page? +19:35:05 is it not there already? +19:35:17 ah, maybe, I didn't check actually +19:35:25 I'm also leaving LUNS in January, so will need to see if rkabalin or dobe want to do it +19:35:42 ah I see +19:35:43 Or agree to move it back to tasks ;) +19:35:56 dan_p: are you leaving mahara as well as luns? +19:36:21 i guess that makes sense (moving it back to tasks). anybody is free to pick it back up if they want +19:36:43 richardm: I hope not +19:36:54 :-) +19:37:00 I may take that task over +19:37:01 I am going to moodle hq +19:37:10 dan_p: cool! +19:37:12 nice +19:37:15 are you then also moving down under? +19:37:18 are you moving to Perth? +19:37:21 So will hope to stay involved +19:37:21 dan_p: congrats +19:37:27 Yes +19:37:32 cool. +19:37:38 wow, that'll be a big change +19:37:51 (also I'm typing on an iPad, sorry!) +19:37:52 dan_p: congratulations +19:38:13 awesome +19:38:40 lucky guy, working in Aus. Perth is not as bad as that. You will see +19:38:52 #action richardm to move the new mahara integration project back to tasks if it's not already there +19:39:02 Thanks everyone :) +19:39:05 richardm: you can take it out, i've already done it :) +19:39:11 #undo +19:39:11 Removing item from minutes: +19:39:21 cool +19:39:38 alright, next item +19:39:39 #info dobedobedoh to look at modifying release & test running scripts to look for tests in the right places +19:39:57 make it a topic, richardm then it shows up as such +19:40:09 ah ok +19:40:10 sorry. +19:40:15 Sadly I haven't had a chance to work on that yet. I was hoping to chat to elky or fmarier as to which scripts need updating +19:41:07 do we have a bug on the tracker to keep track of that? (that seems to be the more logical place to keep this item) +19:41:16 Not yet +19:41:18 I'll create one +19:41:23 ok +19:41:47 #action dobedobedoh to create a bug for modifying release & test running scripts to look for tests in the right places +19:42:12 #topic Starting the discussion about a possible date / month for the Mahara 1.5 release (Kristina) +19:42:25 #idea I just wanted to start the discussion about the release date as we are getting close to the end of 2011 and more and more people ask about Mahara 1.5 and soon will ask about when it's going to be released. As most of our user base is in the northern hemisphere, I'd like to see a release date in late spring so that the edu sector can upgrade over the northern hemispheric summer as that seems to be the best and for many only time to upgra +19:42:30 .. +19:43:18 so our current objective i think is to have releases every 6 to 12 months +19:43:37 which would mean 1.5 at the earliest in December and at the latest in June +19:44:05 December isn't too realistic +19:44:08 and based on previous releases, we should probably plan to freeze about 2 months before we want to release +19:44:17 i think a release in june is more feasible because then we can still put some more features into it because most will not update before that i think. +19:44:30 skin support? +19:44:35 so yeah, richard is right, the earliest would be February (if we were to freeze now) +19:46:18 personally, i don't really have a strong opinion +19:46:29 i would think a freeze in april like this year would be quite good as this gives us a bit more time for planning and finishing up work +19:46:37 i'm not sure we should always base releases on when school terms start +19:46:38 but it looks like there are a few features that would be nice to have +19:46:50 if we do that, we're always committing to 12 months +19:47:36 do you want to release more frequently? +19:47:53 I would like to get web services - if possible +19:48:01 the last two have been more like 9 months, right? and we already have enough in master for a good release now if we were so inclined +19:48:04 in - that is +19:48:27 anitsirk: we want to retain the flexibility to adjust the release date I think +19:49:11 sure, but if we release now / soon then people will still only upgrade in july / august and miss the features we're putting into 1.6 between the release and then. +19:49:26 As a technician and according with what I see as consultant, just delivering a new release before the end/beginning of term is not ideal. People need times to install the new release test it, see how much work they have to plan for the update and then the training of their users/teachers. Having a new release, let say a couple of months before the end of term seems more reasonable to me. +19:49:29 If we're not moving to a time-based release strategy, what are our criteria for release? +19:50:11 dobedobedoh: basically the way we've done it is that we decide to freeze when we have the features we want +19:50:16 more or less +19:50:27 Do you have the features now? +19:50:37 but of course, we can always decide to push some to the next release +19:50:40 Where's the list of features? +19:50:42 we also need a window when there's not too much other work on +19:51:10 christmas/new year is good for that +19:51:57 pxh: yes, usually. but last new year that didn't work out too well :) +19:52:34 dobedobedoh: the list of features is in the git logs :) +19:52:53 and on the 1.5.0 milestone on the tracker +19:53:38 As dajan has said, its a mixed bag releasing too close to the term start/end anyway +19:54:22 I guess we don't have to decide today, but would it be fair to say that the freeze will happen sometime between Feb and Apr? +19:54:24 so if there is enough for a release i'd say release ;-) +19:54:38 freeze even +19:55:06 ditto +19:55:07 but in a way i don't think amking it too random is good because then people can't really plan +19:55:10 dan_p: that's my opinion too, but i'm not really too worried +19:56:01 anitsirk: that's an argument for time-based releases but nobody was really keen last time we discussed that as far as I recall +19:56:02 anitsirk: well, they shouldn't rely too much on our plans anyway. we've certainly disappointed in the past +19:56:33 I would have thought it was more healthy for a project to release frequently - it gives it a sense of life +19:56:40 then we can only do better :-) +19:56:44 pxh: agreed, that was my thought +19:56:45 Fair few bugs targetted for 1.5 not yet committed: http://goo.gl/jTQJk +19:56:47 pxh: i agree +19:57:52 ok, so quick poll: what month do you think we should freeze? (Dec, Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr) +19:58:17 Dec/Jan get my vote +19:58:20 march / april +19:58:23 I vote for Apr +19:58:26 * richardm votes to decide later +19:58:28 dec/jan +19:58:28 i would like to see skin support in - so i'd say mar +19:58:31 Feb/March +19:58:47 I'd like to get web services in if possible - the restructuring for core has been done but it needs to go through the acceptance process +19:58:57 jan +19:58:58 if that were possible then dec/jan +19:59:24 Meaning that from Freeze to Release we must count about 2-3 months for beta testing and stabilization? +19:59:25 I think Jan is good for those of us involved in Moodle - gives us 1 month after their release for things to calm down first +19:59:26 pxh: i think you might want to vote for a later month then :) +19:59:55 dajan: approximately. it depends on what bugs we find in the frozen release branch +20:00:11 fmarier_: the longer I wait the longer I have to maintain two versions ... +20:00:26 true +20:00:42 In Europe is think it is important institutions can play with a final release on May the later +20:01:14 hi +20:01:23 hi +20:01:24 any people? +20:01:25 #info quick dodgy poll results for opinions on freeze date: dec/jan 4, feb/mar/april 3, +20:01:26 hi alberto +20:01:26 hi +20:01:28 or wether the later they will skip a release to the next one. My opinion. +20:02:09 feb/mar/apr 4 - my count +20:02:24 #undo +20:02:24 Removing item from minutes: +20:02:27 i am working in customizing mahara, and i like to show only friends in the invite group form, can anybody help me? +20:02:30 #info quick dodgy poll results for opinions on freeze date: dec/jan 4, feb/mar/april 4 +20:02:50 and i've got: Dec: 3, Jan: 3, Feb: 1, Mar: 3, Apr: 2 +20:03:19 ok that's better +20:03:23 #undo +20:03:23 Removing item from minutes: +20:03:26 No pool tools in IRC :-) +20:03:32 too bad, dajan +20:03:45 #info votes for freeze dates: Dec: 3, Jan: 3, Feb: 1, Mar: 3, Apr: 2 +20:03:50 i am late, but there is a log of this chat? +20:03:54 i guess, we'll have to update the meeting host guide to include a link to an easy poll ;-) +20:03:59 alberto: http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-11-08-19.31.log.txt +20:04:00 alberto, you've dropped in the middle of the meeting. please stay to the end or ask that question in the forum... +20:04:02 alberto: there will be at the end of the meeting +20:04:34 ok, shall we move on? +20:04:43 just a sec please +20:05:12 so to summarize: if somebody asks in a presentation etc., i could say that 1.5 will be released in the first half of 2012, right? +20:05:36 (without mentioning any concrete month) +20:05:41 s/will be released/is targeted/ +20:05:55 anitsirk: i think that's highly likely, but yes, it's always good to promise nothing +20:05:59 we don't promise a release date, we promise a freeze date (once we have one) +20:06:06 sounds good, fmarier_ thanks +20:06:18 #topic Handling security issues (Francois) +20:06:31 right, that's going to be a quick one +20:06:52 but it's basically just a reminder that the process for filing security bugs is slightly different from normal ones +20:07:09 you can put them on the tracker if you click the "this bug is a security bug" checkbox +20:07:17 and it will be hidden from the public +20:07:34 but if you are working on fixing it, patches should go as attachments on that private bug instead of gerrit +20:07:46 we review the patches manually on the tracker +20:07:59 and they get pulled in by the release script when we release +20:08:05 #info click the security checkbox when reporting a security issue on the tracker +20:08:15 #info patches should go as attachments on that private bug instead of gerrit +20:08:30 if you're unsure about what to do with it, don't discuss it on IRC, the forums, etc. just email security@mahara.org +20:08:41 .. +20:08:55 #info don't discuss it on IRC, the forums, etc. just email security@mahara.org +20:09:15 that lack of initial transparency is there because sometimes it takes a while to fix an issue +20:09:35 for example if we have to go through the entire codebase to make sure that the same problem doesn't exist elsewhere +20:09:39 .. +20:10:05 and be careful with make push +20:10:32 Is there any benefit to adding a hook to the Makefile to reject patches with security bugs in the subject without being from a member of the security team? +20:10:56 dobedobedoh: if you can think of a good way to do this, sure +20:11:03 I'll have a ponder +20:11:05 but i guess it's hard to get that from the commit message +20:11:15 unless there's a CVE number in there +20:11:26 but we usually get CVE numbers pretty late in the process +20:11:27 .. +20:11:40 But most commits include a bug number at some point within them +20:12:28 Anyhoo, I'll volunteer to have a go at playing with the Makefile +20:12:42 ok, cool +20:13:08 #action dobedobedoh to look at the possibility of adding a hook to the Makefile to reject patches with security bugs in the subject +20:13:27 any more on this topic? +20:13:51 not from me +20:13:57 #topic Future possibilities for flexible page designs - layouts and themes (Mike Kelly) +20:14:04 Hi all +20:14:09 hi mike +20:14:12 hi mikekelly_ +20:14:13 hi +20:14:22 hey +20:14:25 I hope this is the right forum to discuss this! +20:14:25 hi mikekelly_ +20:14:40 sure +20:14:46 I'm from an art and design institution, and the users are keen to have more control over page design in Mahara. They want to have magazine-type page layouts, rather than just column-based. (e.g. 1 long row, another row split into 3 cols, then another long row.) I'm wondering how we might push this forward with the dev community. We have some money but not lots and lots. We would prefer to see a change like this happening in core +20:15:14 hello world +20:15:31 * waawaamilk has a thought on flexible page layouts +20:15:36 hi waawaamilk +20:15:37 I'm also not sure what the status is of custom themes, so any info on that would be great. +20:15:54 I also want to add some info +20:16:13 you guys should just go to absolute positioning for all objects +20:16:24 browser support is now pretty much assured +20:16:35 and it gives far more precise and creative possibilities +20:16:42 not to mention, the drag & drop is way easier +20:17:06 how would that work with window resizing? +20:17:07 if people want columns, just provide a snap-to-grid effect +20:17:13 One factor to consider is LEAP2A +20:17:19 #info waawaamilk reckons we should go for absolute positioning for all objects, it's the way of the future +20:17:30 hur +20:17:39 I'd also like to see some options for pages with row separation +20:18:02 Did anyone see my forum thread on this? +20:19:05 mikekelly_: yes, i noticed it, but didnt have any bright ideas at the time +20:19:08 I wondered about adding rows to the page, each with a specified column number... +20:19:11 window resizing: my initial thought is that you shouldn't be allowing too much width for resizing - you gain nothing by having the windows so flexible that people can destroy the layout by making it too wide _or_ too narrow +20:19:32 Seemed like an incremental approach rather than completely reinventing what is already there. +20:19:53 Having a way of adding a row of columns seems the way forward +20:20:07 #link http://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=3925 +20:20:22 Thanks rkabalin +20:21:12 fwiw, that sounds like it will result in more complication for the end user +20:22:06 so does anyone feel like volunteering to hack this together & try it out? either absolute positioning or rows? +20:22:38 it could be fun, but would need to find some time +20:23:04 I can contribute some time on this but I'm not so up to speed on your dev practices +20:24:13 mikekelly_: i guess some kind of proof of concept on a test site would be a good start +20:24:17 In a enduser perspective (pupil, students) I think the rows approach is more accessible and more easy to manage than totally free relative positioning bucks. +20:24:54 richardm - yes I'm sure I could put something together like that, time permitting +20:25:28 ok, after that it's really a matter of learning git & pushing your patches through gerrit yourself, or convincing/bribing a core developer to do it +20:25:49 Yes, I'm using git already +20:25:49 it is a hard task... +20:25:53 we can certainly help with that last part +20:26:00 bribing i mean ;) +20:26:08 : ) +20:26:50 waawaamilk I am not completely sold on the rows approach but it doesn't need to appear complex to the end user. +20:26:57 I try to keep in mind what is a portfolio for. It is a reflexive tool to provide evidence of learning (formal and informal), for me it is not a web page builder tool. But I agree that we need a bit more flexibility in arranging the information on the pages. +20:26:59 #info mikekelly_ will put together a test instance with rows in views, or absolute positioning of all blocks, if he gets time +20:27:14 At the simplest level they could just have more options on the layout page. +20:27:31 It is a bit out of this toppic, but I just wanted to share tis +20:27:38 one good reason for going a different way is that you can throw out all that horrid view code I wrote with mochikit in 2007 +20:27:42 dajan - agreed, but for a graphic designer form is content +20:27:46 or at least, you can solidly deprecate it +20:28:17 <_anzeljg_> I'm extending custom skins to include support for Google Web Fonts. This should give more design possibilities. A qucik screenshot of the work in progress: http://goo.gl/l1Bnl +20:28:18 and yeah, I agree with mikekelly_ over dajan - snap to grid can give you more rigid layouts if you want, while allowing art students to go to town like they would in a real portfolio +20:29:10 #info anzeljg is extending custom skins with Google Web Fonts +20:29:24 If doing something more modern, I recommend looking at modernizr and polyfills.. +20:29:34 Nice anzeljg - we have added web fonts to our Mahara too, not Google Fonts yet though +20:29:35 also, regarding the variable width thing - it occurs to me that it won't matter too much, people on wide screens might make a wideish portfolio which would appear with a scrollbar on narrower screens +20:29:39 no big deal +20:29:56 if you set a min and max width you can control the amount of "crazy" that this might otherwise result in +20:30:23 mikekelly_: I agree. I also teach in a school of art in Lausanne. But I want Mahara remain simple to use to kids as for grown up arties +20:30:47 dajan: you could go the absolute way without throwing out the pre-set templates +20:31:06 if it were done in a clever enough way :)_ +20:31:16 dajan: yes. I like simple surface but depth for those who want it. +20:32:18 waawaamilk: in that case. Yes of course. We need more freedom, but having preset is important for basic users. Thanks to point that out. The two features can be combined. Don't know why I challenged one against the other so far. Sorry +20:32:26 anyways, I assume the one that will be done is the one that someone bothers to code, just thought I'd float that idea :) +20:32:34 * dobedobedoh thinks we need some mockups too +20:32:38 I would love to try an absolute position version if someone could put it together +20:32:45 dajan: all good, I don't want to hate on your opinion :) +20:33:09 waawaamilk: indeed and i'm looking forward to seeing your version ;) +20:33:15 herp derp +20:33:23 I was just doing something similar for buzzumi +20:33:26 only one block though +20:33:50 it's so easy with jquery + plugins these days, you'd get rid of so much code +20:34:22 #info everyone wants more flexible page layouts in mahara! +20:34:33 ok, any more comments on this topic? +20:34:42 I am ok +20:35:05 not from I +20:35:06 Would anyone be able to update me on custom skins +20:35:08 ? +20:35:45 mikekelly_: anzeljg's patch hasn't been reviewed yet +20:36:05 <_anzeljg_> i've created option for users to create their own skins for views in 1.3 +20:36:27 Do you think it will be integrated into 1.5 +20:36:28 we're still hoping to do it (and are looking for funding for it) but can't promise anything +20:36:32 <_anzeljg_> the skins are created with web forms +20:36:59 <_anzeljg_> mike, please contact me tomorrow about this... +20:37:10 OK, will do. +20:37:21 <_anzeljg_> gregor dot anzelj at gmail dot com +20:37:27 #topic Request for development docs (Dajan) +20:37:28 mikekelly_: that depends on two things: someone taking the time to go through it, and also when the freeze for 1.5 happens +20:37:47 it would be nice if it were though +20:37:54 lots of people are asking for it +20:37:54 Is skins and the previous subject not linked ? +20:37:54 OK Gregor +20:38:06 #undo +20:38:06 Removing item from minutes: +20:38:15 sorry about that +20:38:58 any more under flexible page layouts and/or skins? +20:39:10 <_anzeljg_> not from me +20:39:12 Not here +20:39:15 Not from me +20:39:23 ok, lets go to the next one +20:39:26 #topic Request for development docs (Dajan) +20:40:17 Yes. My request was about the continuous development of the docs. This is important to me to be able to answer to conferences participant about what happens next. +20:40:44 At the moment it is possible to have an idea of what is going on, by translating the strings (it's what I do) +20:40:47 Reading the git +20:40:56 Reading the tracker +20:41:29 ideally, the user documentation is developed in parallel to when features are targeted for 1.5. unfortunately, i'm still on the documentation of 1.4 and lagging behind (i think i need a couple of weeks off to have it done) +20:41:33 But the information is unstructured and difficult to assemble for Mahara advocate who want to speak about for coming features. +20:41:56 dajan: Are you talking about a roadmap? +20:42:29 #info it would be useful to have up to date docs to talk to conference participants, but current info is unstructured & difficult to assemble +20:42:35 dan_p: i think he's talking about new features that are done (as opposed to just planned) +20:42:38 I look regularly at the roadmap, but it seems to me it is not up-to-date and not updated on the regular flow of development +20:42:45 Our current roadmap ends at 1.4: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Roadmap +20:43:03 i think the page specifications in development https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Specifications_in_Development gives some idea about what will be in 1.5. it means though that it must be updated when something is implemented. however, i think mostly big features are on this list. +20:43:17 fmarier: yes I do. I speak about the features they are to be tested in the dev version. +20:43:31 the roadmap should be more of less ignored as it's out of date +20:43:37 there is no real roadmap as it depends very much who is willing to sponsor new features for mahara. they get then put into the new release. +20:44:27 so in a way what you'd like to see is the release notes for 1.5.0, assuming we were updating them as we're adding new features, right ? +20:44:43 anitsirk: I am planning a training in Rennes in two weeks and will present also already done features of the 1.5dev. So I have a start if we want some docs about it. +20:45:20 fmarier_: I am happy to help on this. +20:45:46 sounds great, dajan. +20:46:19 one thing that would be good to do as well is to perhaps link to that page from the newsletter, mentioning the new features that were added since the last newsletter +20:46:42 that can be done easily, fmarier_ +20:46:42 (not trying to add more work on anitsirk's plate, just mentioning / linking to stuff that's written already) +20:46:42 fmarier_: good idea +20:47:05 hehe. thanks. no linking would be easy and i could also write a short text if i don't have enough articles +20:47:52 so how are we going to compile the feature list from the tracker/git? +20:48:10 #idea by fmarier_ : link to a list of upcoming features (constantly updated release notes) in the quarterly newsletter to keep community informed about these +20:48:19 * _anzeljg_ has to go... bye all. +20:48:24 bye anzeljg +20:48:29 bye my friend +20:48:31 see you +20:48:32 bye _anzeljg_ +20:48:34 bye _anzeljg_ thanks for coming +20:48:35 bye +20:49:57 dajan: shall we chat or skype about the documentation? i read your email. +20:50:30 what if add some tag on the bug reports that are for new important features? +20:50:37 happy to do that. But maybe not today, I have a lot of school work to finish before the end of the evening. +20:50:52 dajan: that's fine. let's take it off-meeting to find a time +20:51:19 we could start adding [FEATURE ....] or [BUG ....] to the commit line? +20:51:29 anitsirk: thank you for not saying "let's take it offline" ;) +20:51:31 as is done in other projects +20:51:52 hugh_home: that's a bit noisy, a feature can consist of a ton of commits (and/or reverts of those) +20:51:58 richardm: it's not just the important features. for the user documentation we would need all new features. sometimes finding them is not so easy esp. if there are only subtle changes. thus, having a list with all new features would be great. but that might be possible in launchpad, right? +20:52:07 yeh, that makes sense +20:52:11 i think something to do with the tracker is likely to be more relevant +20:52:16 or easier to handle anyways +20:52:29 I guess if the tracker has all the features set to wishlist +20:52:33 anitsirk: i'm trying to think of a tag on bugs that would alert the person who's compiling the list +20:52:48 the fact that we have all of the new features on the tracker now does make that task quite a bit easier i think +20:52:48 then we can do some magic to get features from bug no in commit msg +20:52:54 because you can ignore git +20:53:12 ah yes, silly me, you don't need git to do it :P +20:53:17 mhh. sure. tag sounds good. it's another possibility to find something easier and it's easy enough to add. :-) +20:54:01 'releasenotes', maybe? +20:54:19 lets have a try with the tag. Happy with it +20:54:24 but then you would at some point come up with the notes for 1.5 and 1.6 +20:54:30 sounds good +20:54:46 i think it should be releasenotes15 or so to distinguish the releases +20:54:47 anitsirk: the "fix released" bugs are hidden by default +20:55:07 so you're not going to have releasnotes-tagged bugs for both 1.5 and 1.6 at the same time +20:55:12 you can probably search for bugs by tag and milestone +20:55:34 richardm: yes I think you can +20:55:35 ok. that sounds good then +20:56:13 I personally like the [FEATURE] or [NEW-FEATURE] tag +20:56:22 #info we'll try tagging all bugs that should go in the release notes +20:56:59 richardm: i'd say "new features" instead of "bugs" +20:57:07 ah true +20:57:34 ok, let's make it a feature tag +20:57:40 but this is the bug-tracker, right. So richardm you are forgiven +20:58:51 dajan: yeah the line between a bug and a feature is sometimes blurry :) +20:59:10 :D +20:59:16 true that +20:59:17 fmarier_: correct one add many :-) +20:59:50 We seem to have lost our chair! +21:00:09 I have to leave now - bye everyone and thanks for the feedback. +21:00:10 Houston we have a problem. We lost the leader +21:00:24 mikekelly: Thanks for joining us :) +21:00:32 sorry about that +21:00:33 bye +21:00:39 bye mikekelly_ +21:00:42 bye mikekelly_ +21:00:50 bye mikekelly +21:01:14 so where were we? +21:01:27 Shall we go this way. I also have to leave you soon. +21:01:36 did anyone volunteer to go through & add the feature tags for the 1.5 milestone? +21:02:09 it sounds like dajan already has a list for the new features so far, so i guess we only need to tag the new bugs for 1.5 +21:02:17 "new features", even :) +21:02:27 Happy to give a hand, but I don't have the right to access the git at this level. Do I? +21:02:46 dajan: it's just launchpad i think +21:02:54 dajan: anybody can add tags to the tracker +21:03:31 Cool. I will start to do that by the end next week. Ok with you? +21:03:39 ok, great +21:03:52 but i guess whoever marks the bug as fix committed can add the tag too +21:04:04 #info dajan to start adding feature tags to bugs in the 1.5 milestone +21:04:18 What is the tag we will use? +21:04:20 and probably should so that it's done in one go and doesn't get forgotten +21:04:29 #info everyone to start adding feature tags when setting bugs to fix committed (when it's a feature) +21:04:59 We have to _define_ this tag before all +21:05:09 dajan: you can choose, seeing as you're doing the work! +21:05:45 Fine. Willco +21:06:07 Report about this in the next meeting +21:06:15 ok +21:06:44 #action dajan to report on tagging existing 1.5 features on the tracker +21:06:53 #topic Next meeting and chair +21:07:05 #idea Wednesday 7th December @ 07:30 UTC (07:30 GMT/20:30 NZDT) +21:07:06 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20111207T0730 +21:07:14 i could be keen to chair +21:07:37 #info hugh_home to chair the next meeting +21:07:39 richardm: that doesn't work. we'll have zoodoo +21:07:39 thanks hugh_home +21:07:45 Wednesdays aren't so good for us any more :( meeting clash +21:07:48 anitsirk: good point +21:07:50 richardm: bad date (zoodoo) +21:07:51 yeh i was just checking when zoodoo was +21:07:55 how about Tuesday? +21:08:02 Tuesdays wfm +21:08:11 for those non-catalyst people: zoodoo is our annual christmas party held in the wellington zoo :-) +21:08:25 * dobedobedoh was wondering! +21:08:25 #idea Tuesday 6th December @ 07:30 UTC (07:30 GMT/20:30 NZDT) +21:08:44 +1 +21:08:55 +1 +21:09:06 +1 +21:09:07 -1 +21:09:23 wfm +21:09:31 +1 +21:09:34 Ok will try +1 but not sure yet +21:09:47 anitsirk: good to know, the first link I found was http://www.zoodoo.co.nz :)) +21:09:58 #link http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20111206T0730 +21:10:02 ha, i remember that stuff :P +21:10:22 lol +21:10:24 yeah i don't know why they changed the spelling from zoodo to zoodoo +21:10:25 Oh drat, sorry I'm late, I forgot all about it +21:10:35 I have to go now. Thanks to all of you. anitsirk: will contact you by email to schedule a Skype call. Cheers all. Happy Mahara since then. +21:10:37 rkabalin_: nice :) +21:10:51 sounds good, dajan. have a nice evening +21:11:06 see you +21:11:08 Marking! Not a NICE evening. +21:11:13 hehe +21:11:16 #info next meeting will be Tuesday 6th December @ 07:30 UTC, chaired by hugh_home +21:11:17 General info: This is our 12th meeting +21:11:18 fun stuff +21:11:30 We've been doing these for a year now! +21:11:44 :D +21:11:48 hugh_home: https://wiki.mahara.org/index.php/Developer_Area/Developer_Meetings/Chair_Duties (you've probably seen it already) +21:12:01 #topic Any other business +21:12:02 yup, will have another read though :P +21:12:27 richardm: no other business from my end +21:12:30 alberto: you had an item to add? +21:13:46 there were also a couple of left over items from zzmonty from the last meeting about the wiki +21:14:18 richardm: she's not here though +21:14:23 yeah i think we can drop those now +21:14:52 put it on the todo list though +21:15:14 anitsirk: which todo list? the next agenda or current tasks? +21:15:22 current tasks +21:15:43 well that list is for clearly-defined things +21:15:49 her items haven't been discussed yet +21:15:50 i don't think we actually wanted to do at least one of those things +21:16:25 then i guess it will be up to her to take it up in amother meeting +21:17:08 I have to leave, thanks everyone, thanks richardm for chairing +21:17:13 yeah, if she can make it to a future meeting, they can be added to the agenda at that point +21:17:21 thanks rkabalin_ +21:17:26 see you rkabalin_ +21:17:27 bye rkabalin_ +21:17:29 rkabalin_: bye +21:17:31 ok i think we're done +21:17:39 any other comments? +21:17:45 nope +21:17:57 nope, thanks for chairing ! +21:18:05 thanks richardm +21:18:09 Thanks for chairing richardm :) +21:18:13 #endmeeting \ No newline at end of file diff --git a/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-11-08-19.31.txt b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-11-08-19.31.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000..3304ad982ef3fdf534fbbf240f5af93fca3aa296 --- /dev/null +++ b/public_html/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-11-08-19.31.txt @@ -0,0 +1,163 @@ +=================== +#mahara-dev Meeting +=================== + + +Meeting started by richardm at 19:31:40 UTC. The full logs are available +at +http://meetbot.mahara.org/mahara-dev/2011/mahara-dev.2011-11-08-19.31.log.html +. + + + +Meeting summary +--------------- +* Meeting attendees (richardm, 19:31:47) + * richardm is Richard Mansfield, Catalyst, NZ (richardm, 19:31:55) + * dobedobedoh is Andrew Nicols - LUNS Ltd, UK (dobedobedoh, 19:32:09) + * hughdavenport is Hugh Davenport, Catalyst IT, NZ (hugh_home, + 19:32:11) + * pxh is Piers Harding, Catalyst, NZ (pxh, 19:32:12) + * dan_p is Dan Poltawski - LUNS Ltd, UK (dan_p, 19:32:15) + * rkabalin is Ruslan Kabalin, LUNS Ltd., UK (rkabalin_, 19:32:17) + * dajan is Dominique-Alain from Switzerland (dajan, 19:32:20) + * anzeljg is Gregor An�elj, developer and translator (anzeljg, + 19:32:24) + * anitsirk is Kristina Hoeppner from Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ + (anitsirk, 19:32:40) + +* Items from previous meeting (richardm, 19:33:12) + * dan_p LUNS to investigate adding a new mahara integration project to + run selenium tests (richardm, 19:33:22) + * dobedobedoh to look at modifying release & test running scripts to + look for tests in the right places (richardm, 19:39:39) + * ACTION: dobedobedoh to create a bug for modifying release & test + running scripts to look for tests in the right places (richardm, + 19:41:47) + +* Starting the discussion about a possible date / month for the Mahara + 1.5 release (Kristina) (richardm, 19:42:12) + * IDEA: I just wanted to start the discussion about the release date + as we are getting close to the end of 2011 and more and more people + ask about Mahara 1.5 and soon will ask about when it's going to be + released. As most of our user base is in the northern hemisphere, + I'd like to see a release date in late spring so that the edu sector + can upgrade over the northern hemispheric summer as that seems to be + the best and for many only time to upgra (anitsirk, 19:42:25) + * votes for freeze dates: Dec: 3, Jan: 3, Feb: 1, Mar: 3, Apr: 2 + (richardm, 20:03:45) + +* Handling security issues (Francois) (richardm, 20:06:18) + * click the security checkbox when reporting a security issue on the + tracker (richardm, 20:08:05) + * patches should go as attachments on that private bug instead of + gerrit (richardm, 20:08:15) + * don't discuss it on IRC, the forums, etc. just email + security@mahara.org (richardm, 20:08:55) + * ACTION: dobedobedoh to look at the possibility of adding a hook to + the Makefile to reject patches with security bugs in the subject + (richardm, 20:13:08) + +* Future possibilities for flexible page designs - layouts and themes + (Mike Kelly) (richardm, 20:13:57) + * waawaamilk reckons we should go for absolute positioning for all + objects, it's the way of the future (richardm, 20:17:19) + * LINK: http://mahara.org/interaction/forum/topic.php?id=3925 + (rkabalin_, 20:20:07) + * mikekelly_ will put together a test instance with rows in views, or + absolute positioning of all blocks, if he gets time (richardm, + 20:26:59) + * anzeljg is extending custom skins with Google Web Fonts (richardm, + 20:29:10) + * everyone wants more flexible page layouts in mahara! (richardm, + 20:34:22) + +* Request for development docs (Dajan) (richardm, 20:39:26) + * it would be useful to have up to date docs to talk to conference + participants, but current info is unstructured & difficult to + assemble (richardm, 20:42:29) + * IDEA: by fmarier_ : link to a list of upcoming features (constantly + updated release notes) in the quarterly newsletter to keep community + informed about these (anitsirk, 20:48:10) + * we'll try tagging all bugs that should go in the release notes + (richardm, 20:56:22) + * dajan to start adding feature tags to bugs in the 1.5 milestone + (richardm, 21:04:04) + * everyone to start adding feature tags when setting bugs to fix + committed (when it's a feature) (richardm, 21:04:29) + * ACTION: dajan to report on tagging existing 1.5 features on the + tracker (richardm, 21:06:44) + +* Next meeting and chair (richardm, 21:06:53) + * IDEA: Wednesday 7th December @ 07:30 UTC (07:30 GMT/20:30 NZDT) + (richardm, 21:07:05) + * LINK: + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20111207T0730 + (richardm, 21:07:06) + * hugh_home to chair the next meeting (richardm, 21:07:37) + * IDEA: Tuesday 6th December @ 07:30 UTC (07:30 GMT/20:30 NZDT) + (richardm, 21:08:25) + * LINK: + http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?iso=20111206T0730 + (fmarier_, 21:09:58) + * next meeting will be Tuesday 6th December @ 07:30 UTC, chaired by + hugh_home (richardm, 21:11:16) + +* Any other business (richardm, 21:12:01) + +Meeting ended at 21:18:13 UTC. + + + + +Action Items +------------ +* dobedobedoh to create a bug for modifying release & test running + scripts to look for tests in the right places +* dobedobedoh to look at the possibility of adding a hook to the + Makefile to reject patches with security bugs in the subject +* dajan to report on tagging existing 1.5 features on the tracker + + + + +Action Items, by person +----------------------- +* dajan + * dajan to report on tagging existing 1.5 features on the tracker +* dobedobedoh + * dobedobedoh to create a bug for modifying release & test running + scripts to look for tests in the right places + * dobedobedoh to look at the possibility of adding a hook to the + Makefile to reject patches with security bugs in the subject +* **UNASSIGNED** + * (none) + + + + +People Present (lines said) +--------------------------- +* richardm (108) +* fmarier_ (83) +* anitsirk (50) +* dajan (46) +* dobedobedoh (28) +* hugh_home (27) +* mikekelly_ (26) +* waawaamilk (25) +* dan_p (19) +* pxh (13) +* anzeljg (12) +* rkabalin_ (8) +* _anzeljg_ (7) +* maharameet (6) +* alberto (4) +* elky (1) + + + + +Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 + +.. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot